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So after dicking around with Reaper, Synth1, and the Korg DS-10 while I'm out here in the desert, I've decided that I'd like to get serious about this when I get back to the States. I've been looking around different websites for different approaches to get some sort of significant start, and I've come down to a choice between an Axiom 61 and a Roland SH-201. I've seen a lot of people here say the Axiom 49 is a good MIDI controller, so I'd imagine the 61 is just as good but with more keys, and the reviews I've read about the SH-201 paint it as a good synth for beginners with a lot of room to learn and improve. At the moment, I'm trying to put together a list of pros and cons for each to see which will end up being the better choice for me. The Axiom will allow me better control over whatever DAW software I end up sticking with, since I'll be able to use its knobs and sliders to better effect than using the mouse for each setting I want to change. It also has the advantage in price, though I'll be able to afford either choice. On the downside, I won't be able to use it alone, and I'll have to rely on softsynths for everything. Ultimately, not that much of a downside. On the other hand, the SH-201 will also allow me to use it for MIDI input (unless I've completely misinterpreted the owner's manual and every review I've read) in addition to using it on its own. I'll also be more inclined to try and learn how to squeeze every bit of sound out of it instead of getting distracted by a thousand VSTs and never getting anything done. However, I'd have to get a secondary MIDI controller like this to get that good old turn-knob-make-changes feeling. It would also eat up a bunch of my budget just to get one instrument, which is money I could use for things like a better DAW than Reaper (though Reaper is a decent learning tool) or blackjack and hookers. Also, less keys but I think I'd get over it. So now I turn to you all, looking for input on what's worked for you. I'm not asking for you to make my decision for me, just looking for opinions and reasoning from people way more experienced than me. For the record, my budget will be around $900-1000, absolute max of $1200.
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Sep 6, 2008 04:06
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Lynx Winters posted:I'd get the SH-201 and Live 7. ($499, or $249 if you're a student. Currently, it comes with Operator free (my favorite soft synth). You can get a free, full-featured 14-day trial here. My opinion is, that if you're gonna spend the money to really get into it, you should get one of the big names in software. You really don't want to be using something like Reaper as your main in your position. The only downside to using Live is that initially, you won't have as many softsynths to work with, but with Operator and the SH-201 you'll be just fine, and it'll also give you a chance to work with synthesis more. Personally, I say gently caress control surfaces. A MIDI keyboard is nice (which you'll have), but for me, they just seem clumsy and too dated. Modern mixing is about software. If you really want one, that's fine, it's a personal choice, but I never used any of the parameters on my MIDI controller I had, except to dick around. I'd get your synth and your software, and in a few weeks, if you're dying without having plastic knobs to push around, then I'd invest in a surface of sorts. When I was first starting out, I really thought I needed one, and never ended up using the extra poo poo. PRADA SLUT fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Sep 6, 2008 |
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Sep 6, 2008 06:18
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X-stations are pretty cool, it's a decent hardware synth, midi controller, effects processor and audio interface. Xiosynth is cheaper but less controls, same synth engine but no effects on external stuff.
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Sep 6, 2008 06:23
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Lynx Winters posted:However, I'd have to get a secondary MIDI controller like this to get that good old turn-knob-make-changes feeling. My main gripe is that the unit's a bit flimsy and limited in synthesis options. Kai was taken posted:Personally, I say gently caress control surfaces.
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Sep 6, 2008 09:00
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Kai was taken posted:My opinion is, that if you're gonna spend the money to really get into it, you should get one of the big names in software. You really don't want to be using something like Reaper as your main in your position. The only downside to using Live is that initially, you won't have as many softsynths to work with, but with Operator and the SH-201 you'll be just fine, and it'll also give you a chance to work with synthesis more. I'm using Reaper at the moment because my internet connection out here is extremely lovely so it's pretty much the only thing I can get. I'll definitely check out the demo for Live when I get back, though. So far I've found that Reaper is an affordable intro to how DAWs work, but it seems pretty barebones compared to the features the big boys like Live seem to have. Thanks to you and Yoozer for the advice. I had no idea the controls on the SH-201 could be used as MIDI controls, so I get I better get back to reading the owner's manual for it. I'll try to get the Live demo while I'm out here, since it seems if I want to get Operator free I'll have to purchase it before I actually leave here. But if I do, it'll only be by a few days so it'll be waiting for me when I get home.
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Sep 6, 2008 15:34
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Lynx Winters posted:I'm using Reaper at the moment because my internet connection out here is extremely lovely so it's pretty much the only thing I can get. I'll definitely check out the demo for Live when I get back, though. So far I've found that Reaper is an affordable intro to how DAWs work, but it seems pretty barebones compared to the features the big boys like Live seem to have. I'd disagree on this, Reaper is definatly a fully featured DAW in every sense of the word. I've infact moved FROM Logic to basically Reaper only.
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Sep 6, 2008 19:39
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I'm not joking when I say that Reaper will probably be the future of DAWs. It is already insanely well featured and the developer actually listens to the people that use it and makes changes accordingly. I'd give it 1 to 2 years before it is not only competitive with Cubase/Logic but better featured than both.
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Sep 6, 2008 23:50
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WanderingKid posted:I'm not joking when I say that Reaper will probably be the future of DAWs. It is already insanely well featured and the developer actually listens to the people that use it and makes changes accordingly. I'd give it 1 to 2 years before it is not only competitive with Cubase/Logic but better featured than both. The problem is, in a year, Logic will be optimized for 10.6 and probably be fast as all hell.
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Sep 7, 2008 00:30
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WanderingKid posted:I'm not joking when I say that Reaper will probably be the future of DAWs. It is already insanely well featured and the developer actually listens to the people that use it and makes changes accordingly. I'd give it 1 to 2 years before it is not only competitive with Cubase/Logic but better featured than both. Terrible idea. You're suggesting that he use a fledgling software suite as his first DAW. Maybe in one to two years if Reaper has a footprint (which by that time, remember, that every software suite is going to be upgraded), then it'd be worth mentioning, but for the time being, it's a terrible idea. I heard about Reaper years ago, and it's still nowhere near competitive. It's got far longer than "1 to 2 years" before it's anywhere near "competitive with Cubase/Logic".
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Sep 7, 2008 00:58
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Kai was taken posted:Terrible idea. You're suggesting that he use a fledgling software suite as his first DAW. Where did I say he should use a 'fledgling software suite as his first DAW'? So many people are putting words into my mouth on this forum today that I'm just not even going to entertain it anymore. If you want industry standard you use cubase/logic or pro tools because you can work anywhere, anytime right this minute. Good luck with the learning curve (unless its pro tools which is easy as poo poo to work with). Reaper can still be improved alot but the salient point is that it is being improved all the time so no I'm won't be surprised when I see it becoming competitive with mainstream production software because it has the potential to be. Easily.
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Sep 7, 2008 02:41
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I don't see how using a startup small time DAW is a problem in any way. Perhaps if he were opening a recording studio it would be tough to sell business to clients when telling them your main workstation package can be downloaded for pennies compared to Logic/Cubase/etc, but if its a comfortable work flow for him then who cares? Reaper is better featured than a pro DAW would have been 10 years ago. It's more than capable of producing music which is ultimately the goal yes? I mean really, if you can't make music you enjoy using this, then it might be time for a new hobby.
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Sep 7, 2008 03:46
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Anyone have a recommendation on a compressor and maybe an EQ to use while playing live? I guess a lot of this should be taken care of in house if gigging out, but I'm finding that I'll need this kit for my own small house parties.
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Sep 8, 2008 13:13
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I wish I had more experience with Reaper so that I could compare it to the big guys, but the "preview" crashes the poo poo out of my Mac any time I try to run it... edit: question time! My powerbook only has 2 USB ports, but I'm always adding gear, external hard drive, etc... what is the best way to manage multiple USB inputs over limited ports? What about MIDI? Should I get one of those USB hubs? edit2: a cursory search of musiciansfriend answered my question, there are MIDI hubs that take multiple signals and go right to USB - that's cool. Can anybody recommend a good audio interface? I need something USB/firewire, discrete audio outputs to split between PA and headphones. MIDI inputs are a plus. Right now I'm using the Tascam US-122, which works fine, but can't support multiple outputs (so no cueing/headphones) extra innings lovin fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Sep 8, 2008 |
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Sep 8, 2008 22:08
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extra innings lovin posted:Can anybody recommend a good audio interface? I need something USB/firewire, discrete audio outputs to split between PA and headphones. MIDI inputs are a plus. Right now I'm using the Tascam US-122, which works fine, but can't support multiple outputs (so no cueing/headphones) presonus firebox/edirol fa-66 would be the next step up from a us-122 imo
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Sep 9, 2008 07:05
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extra innings lovin posted:
for my live rig, i use a couple of MOTU Ultralites the MK2's (still waiting for long n mquade to get their loving poo poo together and get those MK3's in) i chose them moreover for portability / durability... the things a tank and can take a beating.. i used to tour with an Apogee Ensemble which was hands down the best A/D D/A i've ever heard... but yeah. not exactly something you want some drunk bitch spillin her drink on. but as far as good and cheapish portable FW interfaces... get that RME Fireface. i actually use em for production *not that that should mean poo poo* but im well happy with the converters / ease of use / patching matrix.
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Sep 9, 2008 07:57
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extra innings lovin posted:Can anybody recommend a good audio interface? I need something USB/firewire, discrete audio outputs to split between PA and headphones. MIDI inputs are a plus. Right now I'm using the Tascam US-122, which works fine, but can't support multiple outputs (so no cueing/headphones) I got an M Audio Fast Track Ultra, which has worked pretty well for me so far. I didn't have any firewire ports so I just went with USB 2.0. I've heard really good things about the MOTU Ultralite if you want to go with Firewire. EDIT: Holy poo poo it's deadmau5. Welcome! Your set at Together As One last new years was off the hook 
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Sep 9, 2008 08:13
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Kai was taken posted:Terrible idea. You're suggesting that he use a fledgling software suite as his first DAW. Again, going to disagree with this. Reaper is already competitive with "proper" DAWs for features, speed, everything really. I can't really see any area where is lacking, what do you find it lacking in?
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Sep 9, 2008 09:07
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Stux posted:Again, going to disagree with this. Reaper is already competitive with "proper" DAWs for features, speed, everything really. I can't really see any area where is lacking, what do you find it lacking in? Credibility? Just a guess! edit: and indeed a welcome to mr zimmerman.
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Sep 9, 2008 10:38
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Holy balls, I created a shitstorm. My bad. I'll put more work into learning Reaper, but I'm still going to try and learn Live. If anything, just so I can be familiar with more than one DAW in the future. At the moment, Reaper already does way more than I actually need it to do since I'm still in the "what does this button do" phase.
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Sep 9, 2008 14:06
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If you are still in the 'what does this button do' phase then you should continue learning to use what you have got. Don't juggle 2x DAWs when you don't even know how to work 1 of them yet.
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Sep 9, 2008 14:09
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WanderingKid posted:If you are still in the 'what does this button do' phase then you should continue learning to use what you have got. Don't juggle 2x DAWs when you don't even know how to work 1 of them yet. Plus a lot of the skills are transferable if you grow to hate Live.
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Sep 9, 2008 15:36
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I'm sorry if I missed this, but where's the best site to get realistic drum samples? I'm working on something right now and the crash and hats sound cheesy and lame. Perhaps it's how I'm mixing, too? I'm not sure.
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Sep 9, 2008 22:24
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There's a few drum libraries out there. XLN Addictive Drums seems like a popular choice. Drumkit From Hell is another one. Look after those products and most music websites will be able to give you more suggestions.
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Sep 9, 2008 23:16
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AlanNegative posted:I'm sorry if I missed this, but where's the best site to get realistic drum samples? I'm working on something right now and the crash and hats sound cheesy and lame. Perhaps it's how I'm mixing, too? I'm not sure. Have you got any music production magazines? Any will do - they all come with sample DVDs, and they usually have craploads of drum hits. Also, check out the free multi-instrument Kore Player by Native Instruments. It has a couple of really good drum kits, and as you'd expect from NI, the other instruments included are excellent.
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Sep 9, 2008 23:24
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WanderingKid posted:If you are still in the 'what does this button do' phase then you should continue learning to use what you have got. Don't juggle 2x DAWs when you don't even know how to work 1 of them yet. Yeah, I just went and looked back at what the hell I posted and it's counter to what I told myself I should do. I guess I'll be sticking with Reaper for a while until I actually have enough knowledge to be able to compare different software in an educated manner. It's cheap, it's done everything I've needed it to so far, though admittedly that isn't much, and it'll help with my budget by a few bucks. I might be getting ahead of myself anyway. I need to actually learn how to work an instrument before I go about trying to arrange my lovely piles of notes.
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Sep 10, 2008 04:58
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Here is what I have so far, I'm somewhat new to this so comments and helpful hints would be appreciated, considered, and perhaps used. I'm not strictly an electronic musician, but I do mix things around. At least, I try to. Proper mixing is eluding me.  Thanks for the help so far, guys. I'm downloading KORE Player and checking out the libraries mentioned. alan negative fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Sep 10, 2008 |
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Sep 10, 2008 08:25
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AlanNegative posted:Proper mixing is eluding me. Short and sweet tips: - don't put anything on your final mix (e.g. no Mastererizer, no (multiband) compressor/limiter, none of that poo poo) - if it's not loud enough, turn up your speaker volume (don't compensate with any of the aforementioned plugins) - check if any channels are going into the red. Turn down the gain (in the case of software, the plugin's own volume control) - start with all faders on the same setting - 6db below zero (if things are still in the red, you're doing something wrong - check point nr. 3) - If the overall volume is too low, see point nr. 2. - If it sounds like rear end, start moving the faders down until it doesn't. Rule of thumb: for pop, if you turn your master volume down, you should still be able to hear the vocals and the beat. Advanced: Use http://www.voxengo.com/product/SPAN/ . Put it on each channel separately. Set that channel to solo. See what kind of bumps it creates. The trick is that the bass will create a bump to the left, and strings will create a bump at the right. When bumps blend, the volume at that spot will peak. You solve this with an equalizer by cutting away everything you can't hear anymore anyway. Solo the track, put an EQ over it, start removing highs until you hear it affecting the signal. Dial back a bit so you don't notice it, then start removing lows in the same way. When you have done this for every track, you might have to repeat point nr. 6 in the previous list.
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Sep 10, 2008 11:43
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I've been thinking of doing this for quite a while as a hobby, and this thread has been very helpful. I need to get a MIDI controler. I'm trying to decide between the M-Audio Axiom (49 keys, available for $235.06 at Amazon) and the Edirol PC-80 (61 keys, available for $199.00 from ZZounds.com). The PC-80 includes a synthesizer, but I plan on using software synths so that's not a huge deal to me. Still, it's $30 cheaper for another 12 keys. Am I missing something? Does anyone have other suggestions for MIDI controlers?
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Sep 11, 2008 19:20
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The Axiom has more control options (knobs, sliders, pads...). I think the Axioms are probably the best value as far as these cheap MIDI keyboards go. The keyboards suck on all of them so you might as well go for features.
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Sep 11, 2008 19:44
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Caffeinated Sloth posted:I've been thinking of doing this for quite a while as a hobby, and this thread has been very helpful. i dont really think those are in the same niche. it dosnt come with a synth it comes with a soft synth, which is meaningless because you can probably find free ones that are better(reFX orca VST, its sweet try it) also, not having knobs and trying to control VSTs or perform is really annoying. really annoying. http://www.zzounds.com/item--EDIPCR800 that one is more similar to the axiom. i like the keys on the edirols more than the axiom. thats an opinion tho. i have also read that like 50% of the edirols fail if you dont use them for months at a time. i have had mine for around 2-3 years with months without use and it works perfectly(and i beat the poo poo out of it). YMMV. goto GC and try them out, but like breaks said, theyre all very similar and the one with the most knobs and poo poo is probably best.
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Sep 11, 2008 23:17
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somebody in this thread said something to the effect of "you need to make dozens of lovely songs before you learn how to make good ones" and, well, here's the start of my first shot:  obviously unfinished, any and all critiques welcome although i am not really competent at making electronic music yet so my ability to apply your advice will probably be limited
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Sep 13, 2008 07:02
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I haven't posted here in a while, but believe it or not I have been working. After about 6 or 7 lovely songs, this one here is the first song I'm actually proud of. Tell me what you think! Also tell me if you can come up with a better name than That Magnificent Bastard... it's the only one I could come up with but it's a bit arrogant for me  EDIT: My audio interface is out of commission right now, so this is a headphones mix. I'm not sure how well the sub bass is placed in the mix. As soon as I get my interface back I'll post a better mix. Innings, I'm gonna take a listen to that song right now, give me a sec. Hey, that wasn't bad! I liked it. Ended kind of abruptly, however. It's not really my usual style but I enjoyed listening to it. Altoidss fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Sep 13, 2008 |
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Sep 13, 2008 08:13
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extra innings lovin posted:First shot I've listened to it at least three times and the piano solo surprises me every time and I really enjoy it's unexpectancy. Your claps during the solo seem a little too mechanic. Maybe add a little reverb to make it sound more organic? Altoidss posted:Amazing Piece. Sounds like an assembly line set to high volume! I'm using headphones so I can't comment on the sub bass concern. Around the 60%ish marker it became a bit to predictable but overall I liked it. Awesome composition! I have a question for the synth crew... I've been wrapping my head around the synth sound that takes place in Empire Of The Sun's walking in a dream. http://www.myspace.com/empireofthesunsound It starts immediately. It's so foggy, but bright at the same time. I feel like I can get close to it in Reason's Thor or in the subtractor, but it's either ends up being to bright or too muddy. any suggestions?
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Sep 13, 2008 10:16
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Sevyplates posted:I have a question for the synth crew... Sounds like a full organ (lots of overtones) through a resonant bandpass. Get a full organ/pad sound and patch a filter in at the output rather than trying to do it as part of the patch itself. The source is definitely very 80's, sounds like a Phil Collins organ or electric piano to me.. DX7? It's also heavily detuned (pitch modulation) Boards-of-Canada-style to simulate wow and flutter of analog tape and/or drift of analog oscillators. Kai was taken posted:Request Pretty sure taking samples from a synth is 100% legal-- it's only sample CDs that are licensed against resale or whatever, although some VSTs have rules against making samples from them as well but those are usually sample-based ones e.g. Stylus. The SuperSaw oscillator has two main parameters: "detune" and "mix". I set mix to full and took some 20s samples at various detune points so you can pick and choose (or velocity-switch between them, even). Here is a 13MB FLAC file of the results: http://www.filesavr.com/supersaw mr_package fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Sep 13, 2008 |
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Sep 13, 2008 20:13
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Yoozer posted:
To add to this, with the example of a lead and a pad mixing together, a trick is to find the sweetspot of the lead, by creating a notch filter and gain that +5 or so db, and roll it across the frequencyband untill you find the position where it sounds brightest, or clearest/warmest, depending on where you want it in the mix, then turn down the gain and cut an area in the pad in that exact area untill you hear the lead blast through the pad, as that frequencyspace becomes available in the mix. Its just like photoshop with EQ's, really. edit: this is an essential technique of mine in the case of mixing kick and bass. That area NEEDS to be tight as a drum, or the whole thing sounds like poo poo.
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Sep 13, 2008 20:23
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Altoidss posted:I haven't posted here in a while, but believe it or not I have been working. After about 6 or 7 lovely songs, this one here is the first song I'm actually proud of. thanks for the feedback! your piece was dope as hell. the one thing that strikes me immediately is that the industrial-sounding bassline has a little too much reverb, or is too far back in the mix, or doesn't have enough bottom - something doesn't feel "full" enough there. I think it's probably what you were talking about with the sub bass being off - you'll hear it once you listen to this on monitors and not phones. I can hear the sub bass ok, but it doesn't add a lot of richness to the mix - I don't know if that makes sense or not, just my observation. The other thing I thought of was that the bassline could use some loving up, especially during the breakdown towards the end where it's just the bass and chord hits - some glitchy, fractured sound would really add to the vibe of the song overall. quote:Also tell me if you can come up with a better name than That Magnificent Bastard... it's the only one I could come up with but it's a bit arrogant for me Just fyi, i have dibs on DJ gently caress. (I'm kidding) maybe  Anyway, I spent most of the morning completely revamping my tune to go for a more progressive-house sound. Still need to fix the arrangement, levels, sloppy production, and flagrant use of synth presets, as well as add the second half of the song - so basically everything. But I'm learning! 
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Sep 13, 2008 21:24
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extra innings lovin posted:It's cool, just a shame that you lost the ambient aesthetic during the first half after the intro it'd be really cool if you could play with both at the same time.
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Sep 13, 2008 22:10
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extra innings lovin posted:thanks for the feedback! I got my monitors back! The mix was for sure lacking.  There's the new version. I beefed up the bass drum and sub bass a ton, and generally messed around with the mix. This is a really difficult song to mix, at least to me... everything has to be loud. There isn't really any breathing room at all. So I need critiques on my mixing, above all. I don't know how to glitch things up, really. The only program I have any proficiency in is Reason. I have Ableton Live, but I haven't gotten used to the workflow differences. Anyway, it's funny how songs evolve. I originally planned for it to be a fidget tune, but the rhythmic thing wasn't bouncy enough, and I added the saws and it all fell into place from there. One other random question: My desk is really cramped, so my set up is an Axiom 61, sound card, two KRK RP8s, and a laptop crammed so close together that there is barely any breathing room. So, the tangle of wires causes a lot of static to come out of my speakers when they're turned on. If music is playing I don't notice it, but it's still annoying. Will this damage my speakers, and even if it won't, how do I get rid of it?
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Sep 13, 2008 23:06
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Altoidss posted:I got my monitors back! The mix was for sure lacking. im not an expert on the subject but i feel like everything in your mix is to loud. there is absolutely no dynamics and everything is kind of too loud and maybe a little irritating(think listening to justice cross, good album but just to loud IMO). you really need to automate more parameters and change random little things here and there. and change the velocity on things too. your cymbals didnt really sound bad or anything but if there the velocity was changed to add some swing and groove to it, it would sound alot better.
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Sep 14, 2008 04:31
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What's up peoples, just want some opinions on a catchy little chromatic bass track I started this morning. http://cpchicken.free.fr/sinister.mp3 peep it.
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Sep 14, 2008 18:45
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