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brc64
Mar 21, 2008

I wear my sunglasses at night.

brc64 posted:

We pick it up tonight. I'll probably post pictures tomorrow! :neckbeard:




I suck at taking up close pictures. Also, yes, if you're wondering that is the wedding band attached to to the ring, but no, we're not married yet. She really liked the way they looked attached, but didn't really like the wedding band by itself and preferred we get at least somewhat matching rings when we get to that point. So we just had them solder the two together. Is that unusual? I didn't even realize "connecting" wedding/engagement rings were so common in the first place.

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Oodles
Oct 31, 2005

So I am getting married in January. In typical groom fashion I think everything is sorted, but my bride thinks otherwise.

But back to the question, what am I supposed to say in my speech? I know its to thank people. But is there anything else I need to cover?

porkchoppie
Jan 7, 2004

I will kill in a second.

brc64 posted:





I suck at taking up close pictures. Also, yes, if you're wondering that is the wedding band attached to to the ring, but no, we're not married yet. She really liked the way they looked attached, but didn't really like the wedding band by itself and preferred we get at least somewhat matching rings when we get to that point. So we just had them solder the two together. Is that unusual? I didn't even realize "connecting" wedding/engagement rings were so common in the first place.

It's pretty common. I think most of the married women I know have done this (though not all).

Personally, I don't think I would ever do it for a couple of reasons. I don't find it very aesthetically pleasing (but of course that comes down to personal taste!). Also, there are some situations where I might not want to wear my engagement ring (because I'd be afraid of chipping or scratching the stone) but I would want to wear my wedding band.

zap actionsdower!
Aug 7, 2004

in favor of festivals
I have a fitting on the day after Thanksgiving, so I'm looking for accessories now. I just ordered three contenders for shoes from Endless (they have free return shipping and free overnight shipping on most of the shoes), but I'm curious about corsets. Will the corset I buy at the bridal shop be outrageously priced? If I buy one somewhere else/online, is there something I can look for to ensure that it won't show under my dress....or should I just try some on at the shop?

Prolonged Shame
Sep 5, 2004

Rockwell posted:

When I was talking about culture clashes, I'm talking about the traditions about certain filipino weddings, such as the Pin The Money (iirc) where the males on the groom's side dances with the bride and bride's females with the groom where they pin the money onto the bride/groom. I know that my side won't be familiar with this, how would you propose help educate this because the last thing I want to do is have my side feel left out in the whole thing or feel put off by it. I know there's a few more traditions but I can't remember them all at the moment.

Again, I appreciate your input into this because it's difficult to find someone who's Canadian and marrying with a filipino while dealing with the culture and such.

If you're having a DJ emcee the reception, talk to them and arrange for them to give a brief verbal introduction to the tradition for the benefit of the guests who are not familiar with it. That way you get to have it explained to the uninitiated as well as announcing to the guests that something is happening that they might want to participate in.

clyemne
Oct 18, 2004

She blinded me with Science!

CalamityKate posted:

Just bought my veil off of etsy:



Got it in ivory :)

Cool bird cage! It's nice how it has some gather in the back. Mine was made to be kind of tight, which ended up being a little awkward when the stylist finished with my hair.

zap actionsdower! posted:

I have a fitting on the day after Thanksgiving, so I'm looking for accessories now. I just ordered three contenders for shoes from Endless (they have free return shipping and free overnight shipping on most of the shoes), but I'm curious about corsets. Will the corset I buy at the bridal shop be outrageously priced? If I buy one somewhere else/online, is there something I can look for to ensure that it won't show under my dress....or should I just try some on at the shop?

In my experience everything at bridal shops seems to be very overpriced. I bought a low cut corset through Victoria's Secret (they have a 90 day return policy) which was OK, but in the end I decided to just have bra pads sewn into my dress and not wear a bra/corset. I think this was far more comfortable and the woman doing my alterations only charged $15 or so to do it.

LittleCat
Oct 24, 2004

twinkle, twinkle, little bat
Just looking at the budget (not doing as well as I'd hoped), and I'm wondering about alterations. My dress is probably going to need to be taken in a bit (they ordered it a size up), and the bustle will need sorting out. Any idea what sort of price range I'll be looking at?

I'm not obligated to get it done at my dress shop, so it would be good to know in advance if what they end up quoting me is ridiculous.

Gravitee
Nov 20, 2003

I just put money in the Magic Fingers!
My bustier was $45 from a local lingerie shop. Before my last fitting I took the bustier with me and tried it on with the dress just to make sure it wasn't going to show. Thankfully it didn't.

My alterations were $130 for a bustle and taking in of the halter part of my dress. I got mine done at a bridal shop (although not where I bought my dress) and the woman was highly recommended by a friend.

Farewell Horizon
Sep 12, 2005

by Fistgrrl

zap actionsdower! posted:

but I'm curious about corsets. Will the corset I buy at the bridal shop be outrageously priced? If I buy one somewhere else/online, is there something I can look for to ensure that it won't show under my dress....or should I just try some on at the shop?

A good lingerie store will probably be able to help you. We have a couple round here that are specialty lingerie boutiques and they have everything and are very knowledgeable. You probably don't want a CORSET corset. because then you won't be able to breath. A bustier will keep your boobs up and your tummy in without cutting off your oxygen supply and digestive tract.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001
Would someone be able to give me advice or pointers on various wedding band metals? In particular, I'm looking for a comparison of the different metal and their advantages/disadvantages, or maybe just some straight advice on what's practical.

Right now my fiancée and I are shopping around for wedding bands (June wedding). She's pretty settled on what she wants, which is white gold to match her engagement ring. However, I'm undecided.

I know I don't want yellow gold, I think it looks tacky. It's probably my preference to avoid white gold since I'd rather not have to deal with replating, but I'm willing to consider it. I like the look of platinum, but it's very expensive and I'm not interested in getting an expensive ring for the sake of it being expensive. Although if platinum was the best option for other reasons, I'd consider it.

However, I've heard of/seen titanium, tungsten, palladium (mentioned earlier in this thread), and stainless steel. I'm curious how they compare against each other, if any of them are particularly undesirable, and whether I should consider them as a metal that's "just as good as" platinum for practical purposes but not nearly as costly. Hell, I'd be totally comfortable wearing stainless if it turned out to look/feel/maintain the best.

Any advice?

Crash BandiCute
Nov 8, 2004

Dona Nobis Pacem
Titanium is difficult to resize and it can be hard to find a place that can do it, but is very hard wearing and durable.

Palladium is a bit debated - some people think it's the next big thing and some people think it will become obscure again in jewellery in a while.

Gravitee
Nov 20, 2003

I just put money in the Magic Fingers!
Titanium -
* Highest ratio between strength and density of all metallic materials
* Extreme mechanical and thermal loading capacity
* Stronger than steel but 42% lighter
* High corrosion resistance
* Hypoallergenic

Tungsten -
* Tungsten rings are 100% scratch proof
* Will not bend out of shape
* Will not scratch
* In case of medical emergencies, tungsten rings can be removed by medical professionals
* Hypoallergenic
* Heavy
* Inexpensive

Platinum -
* Expensive
* Won't scratch easily
* Will not oxidize or decay over time
* Heavy

Palladium -
* Cheaper than platinum
* Durable
* Hypoallergenic
* No replating necessary, will not tarnish

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Gravitee posted:

Titanium -
* High corrosion resistance
How does that compare to the "will not oxidize or decay over time" of platinum/palladium? Better, worse, or same? I do want something that doesn't tarnish.

Gravitee posted:

Tungsten -
* In case of medical emergencies, tungsten rings can be removed by medical professionals
Can the other ones not be?

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

CagedLiberty posted:

Palladium is a bit debated - some people think it's the next big thing and some people think it will become obscure again in jewellery in a while.
Is there a particular reason why it would go away? Fad properties don't particularly bother me as long as the underlying metal holds on it's own. Afterall, it's not like the metallic properties change as soon as it becomes unpopular.

Gravitee
Nov 20, 2003

I just put money in the Magic Fingers!

ExcessBLarg! posted:

How does that compare to the "will not oxidize or decay over time" of platinum/palladium? Better, worse, or same? I do want something that doesn't tarnish.
Can the other ones not be?

It looks like it has the same non-tarnish properties that platinum/palladium have. There are many urban legends about tungsten and titanium rings not being able to come off fingers and they have to chop off them off in case of emergency. They may have to cut your ring off, but they won't have to cut off your finger.

Crash BandiCute
Nov 8, 2004

Dona Nobis Pacem

ExcessBLarg! posted:

Is there a particular reason why it would go away? Fad properties don't particularly bother me as long as the underlying metal holds on it's own. Afterall, it's not like the metallic properties change as soon as it becomes unpopular.

No, not that I know of. I read things about it in jewellery magazines saying it was being pushed quite aggressively as a special new thing, but it's probably just a fad and won't be a long lasting success. I wouldn't be bothered about that either, personally.

LittleCat
Oct 24, 2004

twinkle, twinkle, little bat

CagedLiberty posted:

No, not that I know of. I read things about it in jewellery magazines saying it was being pushed quite aggressively as a special new thing, but it's probably just a fad and won't be a long lasting success. I wouldn't be bothered about that either, personally.

Heck, if it won't tarnish or yellow, then fad or not it's fine by me. The price difference between it and platinum is more than enough to make up for any perceived trendiness.

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

So, is it possible at all to resize a tungsten ring later on? We were looking at some, and my fiance really loved the darker metal, but he's worried about his hands swelling when he's older and wouldn't want to buy an entirely new ring.

RedFish
Aug 6, 2006
..blue fish, one fish, two fish: blue fish need not apply.

WolfensteinBag posted:

So, is it possible at all to resize a tungsten ring later on? We were looking at some, and my fiance really loved the darker metal, but he's worried about his hands swelling when he's older and wouldn't want to buy an entirely new ring.

No, it cannot be resized, you will have to have a new one made.

Tungsten rings are supposedly now made with a weak point so they can be snapped off at hospitals, etc.

Babys1stCockring
Apr 4, 2006

We ended up getting our wedding bands about a week ago :)

We didnt want anything fancy. The two bands combined cost less than the engagement ring. We both got white gold. Very happy with the decision. Just cant wear them until June :(

zman8
Dec 21, 2002
I don't need a quote!!
As this may have been, and was most likely, answered before, I hesitate to ask (please note that the search features are down right now).

Any experiences with purchasing an engagement ring online? I was looking at a couple of sites such as http://www.novori.com, and http://www.jamesallen.com/.

My girlfriend strikes me as conservative when it comes to jewelery (ie less is more), so I'm looking at spending around $1-3k on the band and $8-10k on the diamond (ie F or higher color, ideal cut, and VS1 or higher). It seems as though these sites have the simple bands with great diamonds. Is this too good to be true or is it just online savings?

Also, how much does cash upfront affect the cost?

RedFish
Aug 6, 2006
..blue fish, one fish, two fish: blue fish need not apply.

zman8 posted:

As this may have been, and was most likely, answered before, I hesitate to ask (please note that the search features are down right now).

Any experiences with purchasing an engagement ring online? I was looking at a couple of sites such as http://www.novori.com, and http://www.jamesallen.com/.

My girlfriend strikes me as conservative when it comes to jewelery (ie less is more), so I'm looking at spending around $1-3k on the band and $8-10k on the diamond (ie F or higher color, ideal cut, and VS1 or higher). It seems as though these sites have the simple bands with great diamonds. Is this too good to be true or is it just online savings?

Also, how much does cash upfront affect the cost?

Go to http://www.pricescope.com already.

I know James Allen has a decent reputation there. The forums will help you search for the best diamond you can get for your budget. Think of an entire forum of consumers who know their poo poo and would love an excuse to plow through pictures of diamonds to find one that fits what you need.

Farewell Horizon
Sep 12, 2005

by Fistgrrl

zman8 posted:

My girlfriend strikes me as conservative when it comes to jewelery (ie less is more), so I'm looking at spending around $1-3k on the band and $8-10k on the diamond (ie F or higher color, ideal cut, and VS1 or higher). It seems as though these sites have the simple bands with great diamonds. Is this too good to be true or is it just online savings?

That is a loving huge budget. Like. Thats tons, even with a platinum band.

Gravitee
Nov 20, 2003

I just put money in the Magic Fingers!
I think I'm going to take an informal poll about engagement rings. I am very happy that I was engaged before the SO and I went ring shopping and I picked the ring after deciding what looked best. However, many people feel the need to pick out a ring before they propose. I know surprise proposals are the norm but I am curious about the reality of wearing something on your hand for the rest of your life that you may or may not had any say on.

I would like to know:

A. If you are female and engaged/married - did you pick out your ring? If not, do you like what your SO picked out for you? Would you have preferred something else? Did you discuss at all what your likes/dislikes were beforehand?

B. If you are female and not engaged/married - do you want to pick out your ring or do you want to be surprised?

C. If you are male - is finding the right ring more important than the proposal? Did you have/would you want feedback beforehand regarding your partner's likes and dislikes?

Discuss!

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web

zman8 posted:

My girlfriend strikes me as conservative when it comes to jewelery (ie less is more), so I'm looking at spending around $1-3k on the band and $8-10k on the diamond (ie F or higher color, ideal cut, and VS1 or higher).
That's a loving ridiculous amount of money to spend on a ring. Especially if she has conservative tastes, spend it on a vacation to Hawaii and give her a smaller ring there.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web
Poll question:

I've already talked about it with my boyfriend - neither of us wants to contribute to the current diamond market, so I've told him I want to use the diamond from a necklace that my grandmother left me (thanks, this thread, for the idea!). I want to pick out the setting - it's something I have to wear, why should he have to worry about that? The surprise will be the proposal.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006

Gravitee posted:

I would like to know:

C. If you are male - is finding the right ring more important than the proposal? Did you have/would you want feedback beforehand regarding your partner's likes and dislikes?

Discuss!
Both were very important, which is why my fiancee and I went ring-shopping before I proposed. I asked for her input on what she liked and just as importantly, what she didn't like. I came away with lots of ideas, whereas I would have been flying blind without her input, and could have easily picked something that might have disappointed her. In the end, I bought the ring that was her far-and-away favorite, but at the time she showed it to me, neither of us thought I could afford it, so we continued shopping (and she didn't like any other rings as much). My proposal was a very memorable and momentous occasion, so coupled with the ring she loved, everything worked out perfectly. I'm so glad I didn't have to pick a ring for her from out of the blue.

amethystbliss
Jan 17, 2006

Gravitee posted:

I would like to know:

A. If you are female and engaged/married - did you pick out your ring?

Yes and no. One night my fiance told me that he really wanted to propose but was worried about the ring. We'd already discussed our future a lot and the fact that he was planning on immigrating from the UK to the US to be with me. He said he really wanted to go all out on a nice ring, but was torn because he couldn't justify spending what he wanted to with the expenses of immigration plus flights to visit each other. I had a smaller diamond ring my mother got me for my 16th birthday with me in England, and on one romantic, teary night I gave it to him and told him to propose whenever he wanted, not to let money determine our happiness, and that we could always upgrade later. He was so happy, relieved and grateful and still managed to totally surprise me with his proposal a few months later :). He saved up a bit more and when he came to visit the U.S. this summer we went shopping together for the ring I will wear for the rest of my life. Thanks summer sale + £ to $ conversion!

McEatenAlive
May 13, 2003

CAT.

Gravitee posted:


C. If you are male - is finding the right ring more important than the proposal? Did you have/would you want feedback beforehand regarding your partner's likes and dislikes?

Discuss!

Me and my fiance were discussing engagement for a while, and one day she asked me if I wanted to go and get sized for a ring. I had already been talking to someone through this thread who gave me some good advise as to what sort of places to look at and some fair prices, so I knew a good ballpark of what I was looking for and what I could afford.

So, when we went to get sized, the salesman busted out the rings for her to try on a few (smart move, salesman) and she immediately fell in love with one, but she thought it was set too high. I went back the next day and bought it, having the setting lowered closer to the band but still high enough to get good light in.

Then I waited 3 really loving long months with the ring shoved at the bottom of my closet.

I had big plans for the proposal, but it wasn't going to happen until like 6-7 months after I bought the ring, and I'm too impatient for that. I was going to the city to see a friends band play, and after a fight about me staying over a female friend's apartment there, she decided to come. So in the next 24 hours I hatched a scheme to get her to walk across the brooklyn bridge with me, planned a whole speech filled with symbolism and meaning (we fell in love in Brooklyn when I was living there a year prior), and got her father's permission.

So the ring I felt was mainly her call, but I still wanted it to be a surprise that I actually had got the one she wanted. The proposal itself, with the ring being a part of it, was more important to me.

I'd recommend the father's permission part to everyone. It really meant a lot to her, him, and the rest of her family. But in all seriousness, I was more intimidated asking him than I was asking her.

peanut
Sep 9, 2007


C. He tried to dance around the question and say he wanted to know how big my fingers were. We checked my size at a jeweler's in a department store and left it unsaid what that meant.
Soon after that we were having a kind of special spa weekend but had never been to the place. He said to get the map out of the glove compartment- there were flowers inside! He said he looked at rings all morning but couldn't decide.

A. So we looked at department stores, small jeweler's... I'm fine with used but he's against the symbolism. I looked into recycled gold and conflict-free diamonds and evil diamonds and in the end diamonds are just beyond our budget. We'd rather have a big TV and a nice sofa. I've picked an opal ring and it should arrive next week. He'll get it resized and present it sometime in December... I'm very glad I got to pick my own ring!

ps. Father's permission- We talked about engagement for a while, and he proposed in the car, but it wasn't official until he met my dad. Of course my dad wouldn't have said no- but I appreciated it and my dad appreciated it a lot (esp. because my dad was a "single father.")

peanut fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Nov 27, 2008

Lady googooGaGa
Nov 3, 2006

Are you freaking kidding me!?

moana posted:

Poll question:

I've already talked about it with my boyfriend - neither of us wants to contribute to the current diamond market, so I've told him I want to use the diamond from a necklace that my grandmother left me (thanks, this thread, for the idea!). I want to pick out the setting - it's something I have to wear, why should he have to worry about that? The surprise will be the proposal.

I kind of picked my ring out. I had the same thought, I have to wear it, and he wanted to get me this 3 carat tw monster and I was like 'While yeah I'd like to be 'iced' out, I don't rap and its too much'. So I pointed out a few settings and styles that I liked, but I really gravitated toward one -- the one he ended up getting me.
I liked wondering which it would be, when, how he would propose. It didn't make it any less of a surprise, it was the coolest moment of my life so far.


moana posted:

That's a loving ridiculous amount of money to spend on a ring. Especially if she has conservative tastes, spend it on a vacation to Hawaii and give her a smaller ring there.


Agreed. Even if you're totally loaded and want to go all out, its still way too much IMO. If you get something too big, its going to have to be cleaned all the time, which is a pain in the rear end (my ring is 'big' but not 'huge' and I have it cleaned like once a week, its the only bummer about it). Also if she loses it, you might have insurance, but you're going to pay a lot more for it. Remember she is going to wear it every single day, maybe for the rest of her life (although some eventually only wear wedding band). It shouldn't be cumbersome. Beautiful amazing ring doesn't mean the biggest most expensive one. I've seen jaw dropping rings at Tiffany's for 5k.

Last, moana is right. You can take her on an amazing vacation for that much money. If you do have it to spend, take her somewhere she's never been but always wanted to go for a week -- and propose one night. She can still have a great ring and a wonderful story to tell.

Lady googooGaGa fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Nov 27, 2008

Lady googooGaGa
Nov 3, 2006

Are you freaking kidding me!?
Quote is not edit. Dammit, sorry.

GoreJess
Aug 4, 2004

pretty in pink

Gravitee posted:

A. If you are female and engaged/married - did you pick out your ring? If not, do you like what your SO picked out for you? Would you have preferred something else? Did you discuss at all what your likes/dislikes were beforehand?


I didn't pick out the exact ring he purchased, but we did go shopping together a few times. He knew what I was looking for (round diamond, channel set side stones, white gold) & chose the perfect ring for me.

As far as the proposal, I was completely surprised because the day before we talked about how he didn't have the money right now to get me a ring.

goatse guy
Jan 23, 2007
hello im back in ai buy me avatars plz :-*
.

goatse guy fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jan 21, 2013

JohnnyRnR
May 16, 2004
Beer Ninja

zman8 posted:

Also, how much does cash upfront affect the cost?

Typical online sellers will give you a few percent discount for sending cash via a wire transfer. It's basically the difference between sales price and the fees they pay to process credit cards.

Buying online is much like the retail experience. Trusted online sellers with proven track records are the same as walking into a retail store since the customer oftentimes doesn't have the wherewithal to know if the retail seller is lying. There's a lot of trust involved regardless of where you buy your jewelry.


In the interest of full disclosure I should say that I actually own a company that specializes in diamond engagement rings, and we sell them online. Our website is in the final days of construction, and we're hoping to officially launch next week. http://www.johnnybrookheart.com

Feel free to shoot me an email. We happily give 5% discounts to goons, and our prices are already on par with other online jewelers.

I could probably come up with 50 goons who could serve as references. :)

LittleCat
Oct 24, 2004

twinkle, twinkle, little bat

moana posted:

That's a loving ridiculous amount of money to spend on a ring. Especially if she has conservative tastes, spend it on a vacation to Hawaii and give her a smaller ring there.

Haha, thank you. I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking it. I get so frustrated with people being all like "I don't want a big expensive ring (or she doesn't want a big expensive ring) so we're only spending (insert ridiculous amount of money)". I have a friend who told me that she didn't want to spend too much, so I talked about the ring we're getting, and then she proceeded to tell me that her fiancé is selling his car to pay for her ring.

Anyhow, Gravitee:

My fiance and I have been engaged for nearly a year. He picked out my ring, sort of. He bought a very inexpensive sapphire ring to propose with, which I've been wearing. I'd picked out a ring I really like from greenkarat.com before the engagement, which he'll probably get me for our first anniversary. He was going to try to "upgrade" immediately, but I suggested we wait and save the money for the wedding/honeymoon.

Gravitee
Nov 20, 2003

I just put money in the Magic Fingers!
Thanks for the great stories. I'm glad everyone got a say in what they received. It makes me hopefully that real life isn't like the awful Kay Jeweler commercial I just saw on TV. We spent the money we saved on the ring for a nice honeymoon. We went to an all inclusive in Mexico. It was great. :)

Crash BandiCute
Nov 8, 2004

Dona Nobis Pacem
A. If you are female and engaged/married - did you pick out your ring? If not, do you like what your SO picked out for you? Would you have preferred something else? Did you discuss at all what your likes/dislikes were beforehand?

I was proposed to with a plastic cat shaped ring, and then the very next day we went ring shopping together to pick out the real one. We had discussed engagement for quite a while before it happened, and he knew my tastes, so he had one particular shop order in some rings that matched my likes (sapphire center stone) and I did end up going with one of those. It worked out perfectly.

Farewell Horizon
Sep 12, 2005

by Fistgrrl

zman8 posted:

My girlfriend strikes me as conservative when it comes to jewelery (ie less is more), so I'm looking at spending around $1-3k on the band and $8-10k on the diamond (ie F or higher color, ideal cut, and VS1 or higher). It seems as though these sites have the simple bands with great diamonds. Is this too good to be true or is it just online savings?

Just to put things in perspective, I've helped a lot of my male friends out with rings. They usually have a 2k budget and walk away with a half carat, white gold, G-F colored diamond with VS1 or VVS2 clarity within their budgets. A half carat diamond is actually quite large. Personally I'd say a .3 carat diamond is conservative.

You'll pay an excessive amount extra for every 'increment'. As in, an exact .5 carat diamond will cost you significantly more than a .48 carat diamond, and they look exactly the same.

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squirrellypoo
Feb 8, 2003

Gravitee posted:

A. If you are female and engaged/married - did you pick out your ring? If not, do you like what your SO picked out for you? Would you have preferred something else? Did you discuss at all what your likes/dislikes were beforehand?
I picked out my ring. We were on holiday in Dublin and wandering around the shopping streets anyway, and he suggested we look at rings while we were there. So on the third day or so I found my ring, he bought it, and then he promptly hid it away and told no one - I said I wanted a surprise proposal, not just "well here it is then" in a jewellry shop.

That was February. In June he finally made his surprise proposal. :)

And he was very upfront on letting me pick whatever design I wanted - his thoughts were, you've got to wear it for the rest of your life so you'd better REALLY like it. And it was also a safe bet that I wasn't going to go all blingalicious anyway with my tastes...

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