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Macksy posted:That's like an April fools article, only it's December. It was on a thread from 4chan's /a/.  Anyhow it seems to be partially true, saw this on the skullknight forums.  "Miura's comment is that he's a bit disappointed his favorite series (NovelsM@ster) is over. He was surprised that it ended. And he bought a Xbox (360 I assume) because he's bored and lonely." Here's a link to the 301 spoiler thread:http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=9683.0
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Dec 11, 2008 06:22
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| # ? May 15, 2024 11:57 |
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You...you mean Miura isn't a huge, muscular guy who wields a 100-pound pen that's six feet long, screaming in fury as he draws every one of Guts' hairs as he chops five demons in half at once? that was how I always pictured him. 
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Dec 11, 2008 08:01
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Macksy posted:-edit wow ADTRW has really become a parody of itself
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Dec 11, 2008 10:04
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Miura taking breaks is nothing new, that blog just likes to run rumours, make stupid mistakes (hiatus = quitting! DRAMA) and over dramatize things. It's really not worth paying attention to unless you want to know about every possible piece of legislation that could threaten lolicons legality around the world. More on topic, the Archers demon form is a walking bolt thrower? Awesome.
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Dec 11, 2008 18:38
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The writer of one of the most violently sexist comics of all time is lonely? w-wha...how....
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Dec 12, 2008 01:09
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GentlemanLoser posted:The writer of one of the most violently sexist comics of all time is lonely? w-wha...how.... Just because rape happens in it doesn't mean that it's sexist...?
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Dec 12, 2008 02:50
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Zorak posted:Just because rape happens in it doesn't mean that it's sexist...? miura can't have strong female characters without marginalizing them in some way caska was a strong, competent character that could handle herself in battle EXCEPT for those times she was buckling under the force of her heavy flow or whatever, then she gets brutally raped and needs constant supervision farnese was in a position of power with the holy knights but miura apparently can't stand that so she was a terrible leader and now she's finding fulfillment in cooking and basically taking care of a child as is a woman's place schierke is just a little kid and thus non-threatening AND wants Guts' junk (classy) schierke's mentor died almost immediately luca was a prostitute edit: i guess you could also make a case out of nearly every demon having breasts or a vagina and our hero killing them with the very phallic dragonslayer but i think everything else is more than enough GentlemanLoser fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Dec 12, 2008 |
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Dec 12, 2008 03:15
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GentlemanLoser posted:miura can't have strong female characters without marginalizing them in some way All of that is true for every MALE character not Guts as well though. Guys get raped/ killed by monsters as much as women in the series Caska is an important plot element I'm not sure what's your point? She's the 3rd strongest human we've actually encountered in the series and that's not really changed at all soooo Farnese is established as being crazy even beside the power thing, because its supposed to belittle her religious obsessions and blah blah blah. Schierke is just a little kid, yes, she's the same age as the "Witch" in Griffith's band who is pretty much the most important character in his army besides Zodd, and her male companion is the most useless character in the series period (even behind retard-Caska). Old people die to give room for the young people to grow She was also a Satanist, as were a lot of dudes. you're construing a lot of stuff pretty hard! there's a lot more "HORRIBLY OBESE MAN/ HORRIBLY MUSCULAR MAN WITH DEMON DICK" stuff ssoooo
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Dec 12, 2008 03:23
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Zorak posted:All of that is true for every MALE character not Guts as well though. Guys get raped/ killed by monsters as much as women in the series What the heck man, there are a ton of totally likeable, sane male characters in Berserk that aren't Gutts. The old band of the hawk, the two reoccuring noble dudes, the kushan assassins that can see through griffith, Farnese's fiance, etc. They don't play HUGE parts, but they're definitely there. I wasn't saying that Farnese wasn't crazy to begin with, I'm saying that a character arc where a woman goes from being in a position of power to homemaker and is all the better for it raises some flags. And Schierke/Sonia being powerful was kind of my point. Miura can't just leave it at that, he has to marginalize in some way, so he made them children. I don't mean to say that every bad thing in Berserk only happens to women, it's just that there aren't any strong female characters without at least some kind of string attatched.
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Dec 12, 2008 03:43
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GentlemanLoser posted:I don't mean to say that every bad thing in Berserk only happens to women, it's just that there aren't any strong female characters without at least some kind of string attatched. But...there aren't any strong male characters without strings attached. I think the closest we've come to seeing something like that is Serpico.
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Dec 12, 2008 03:51
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GentlemanLoser posted:What the heck man, there are a ton of totally likeable, sane male characters in Berserk that aren't Gutts. The old band of the hawk, the two reoccuring noble dudes, the kushan assassins that can see through griffith, Farnese's fiance, etc. They don't play HUGE parts, but they're definitely there. And they all are totally useless/ so obsessed with their MANITUDE that it gets them killed 99% of the time. quote:I wasn't saying that Farnese wasn't crazy to begin with, I'm saying that a character arc where a woman goes from being in a position of power to homemaker and is all the better for it raises some flags. The plot essentially needed SOMEONE to take care of Caska because the whole point of the manga equates to "Guts tearing up poo poo with sword". Hell, Farnese has killed more crap then Isidoro has, and Isidoro is basically supposed to be "THE ASPIRING YOUNG HERO WHO WILL END UP SURPASSING GUTS SOMEDAY MAYBE". quote:And Schierke/Sonia being powerful was kind of my point. Miura can't just leave it at that, he has to marginalize in some way, so he made them children. Doesn't Schierke being a kid (and Sonia being like 17) make it more impressive that they're doing so well? How does that marginalize them? quote:I don't mean to say that every bad thing in Berserk only happens to women, it's just that there aren't any strong female characters without at least some kind of string attatched. The characters ARE strong in their characterization, that doesn't mean they have to be Guts-esque swinging crazy swords around like nobody's business. It's set in the middle ages, so there IS going to be an element of "hey women don't do much", but that fact is subverted and frequently proven wrong within the work. but several of the female characters are strong characters. Luca was a prostitute, yes, but was one out of necessity. I'm pretty sure that Crime and Punishment established that prostitution doesn't make a female character worthless/ weak  Shinjobi posted:But...there aren't any strong male characters without strings attached. I think the closest we've come to seeing something like that is Serpico. And Serpico is pretty much an emotional slave to Farnese, so he doesn't really accomplish anything/ have any real will to ever do anything. I'd honestly say that Isidoro is more like that. He's not that skilled/ is young, but he's ballsy enough that he can pull stuff off.
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Dec 12, 2008 03:56
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Zorak posted:And they all are totally useless/ so obsessed with their MANITUDE that it gets them killed 99% of the time. Except for the band of the hawk, those characters I listed are still alive. And the hawks ruled? Zorak posted:The plot essentially needed SOMEONE to take care of Caska because the whole point of the manga equates to "Guts tearing up poo poo with sword". Hell, Farnese has killed more crap then Isidoro has, and Isidoro is basically supposed to be "THE ASPIRING YOUNG HERO WHO WILL END UP SURPASSING GUTS SOMEDAY MAYBE". I'm not saying she doesn't contribute anything, I'm taking issue with the basic premise of her character development, which has so far been "I'm happier in the kitchen". Zorak posted:Doesn't Schierke being a kid (and Sonia being like 17) make it more impressive that they're doing so well? How does that marginalize them? Shierke/Sonia (no way is sonia 17) thing:What I'm trying to get at is that Miura is scared of women, and the only way he can have two powerful and independent female charactes is if they're just children, and thus not nearly as terrifying as adult women apparently are. Zorak posted:The characters ARE strong in their characterization, that doesn't mean they have to be Guts-esque swinging crazy swords around like nobody's business. It's set in the middle ages, so there IS going to be an element of "hey women don't do much", but that fact is subverted and frequently proven wrong within the work. but several of the female characters are strong characters. Luca was a prostitute, yes, but was one out of necessity. I'm pretty sure that Crime and Punishment established that prostitution doesn't make a female character worthless/ weak I'm not saying that there needs to be a female Gutts. I'm saying there aren't any strong female characters without some characteristic that makes them subservient or less threatening to Miura's manhood in some way. And being a prostitute for a medieval refugee camp is demeaning, man, can't really argue that.
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Dec 12, 2008 04:25
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GentlemanLoser posted:Except for the band of the hawk, those characters I listed are still alive. And the hawks ruled? And they were all weaker then Caska and all died and were useless in the end. Farnese's Fiance is useless and screamed like a little girl at every monster, those two nobles don't actually do anything except go around going YES WERE NOBLES WERE OUT TO SAVE MIDLAND *doesn't do anything* quote:I'm not saying she doesn't contribute anything, I'm taking issue with the basic premise of her character development, which has so far been "I'm happier in the kitchen". She wasn't very happy torturing people and likes being depended upon OH NOOOO. quote:Shierke/Sonia (no way is sonia 17) thing:What I'm trying to get at is that Miura is scared of women, and the only way he can have two powerful and independent female charactes is if they're just children, and thus not nearly as terrifying as adult women apparently are. uhhh what? Caska was a strong adult woman, and the chapters involving her as such spanned like two years of writing, obviously he didn't have a problem with her being strong? quote:I'm not saying that there needs to be a female Gutts. I'm saying there aren't any strong female characters without some characteristic that makes them subservient or less threatening to Miura's manhood in some way. It's demeaning but it doesn't make her a weak character/ person. Doing demeaning things despite how demeaning they are, sacrificing one's pride, doesn't make a character necessarily weak. Again, I call upon notice of Dostoevsky.
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Dec 12, 2008 04:42
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quote:A wonderful debate, something which I haven't seen in a long while This debate is wonderful, however, I don't care who is slicing poo poo up in Berserk, as long as it's someone. I'm hopeful that when Caska gets to the Elfland, she gets healed, realized everything she's been through, and goes on a massive rape/kill everything in sight rampage. I think she'll be the one to either kill Griffin, or at least debilitate him enough for Guts to take him out. OOoh, maybe when she's healed, Skull Knight will get killed and she'll swallow all they Beilits and take his armor becoming the next Skull Knight. That, that would loving rock actually.
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Dec 12, 2008 04:53
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Man I am not saying that a character has to be physically strong to be a good character. The nobles aren't doing much but they aren't actively hindered by some character flaw or outside circumstance (well, aside from the kushan, but that's true for everybody) is my point. They're well-intentioned and doing the best they can, given the circumstances. There aren't any female characters like this in Berserk, and that's my main issue. And are you really saying that Judeau and Pippin were bad characters because they couldn't survive a demon horde? I'm also definitely not saying that Luca or Caska are weak women, it's just that whenever Miura has a character like this he has to put them in some kind of position where they're subservient to men in some way, whether it be prostitute or child or rape victim. And I'm not trying to imply that every female character has to be without flaw or suddenly you're unredeemably sexist, either. There just aren't any exceptions in Berserk, like there are with men.
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Dec 12, 2008 05:07
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hmmmm
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Dec 12, 2008 05:23
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alright, my first post was hyperbolic and kind of stupid but i'm still convinced miura has some issues with women e: also berserk passes the bechdel test which i'll admit is worth noting GentlemanLoser fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Dec 12, 2008 |
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Dec 12, 2008 05:24
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GentlemanLoser posted:The nobles aren't doing much but they aren't actively hindered by some character flaw or outside circumstance They Nobles are hindered by the fact that they're useless nobles who don't do anything whatsoever? And they're slaves to their blind faith to a hero figure who is leading around a group of cannibalistic men-turned-monster? Nothing wrong with that at all...? They're emotionally weak, undeveloped characters, I don't know why this makes them "superior" in terms of character to a risk taking, open-minded, woman just because she's not an adult/ she occasionally watches over a retarded woman? quote:(well, aside from the kushan, but that's true for everybody) is my point. They're well-intentioned and doing the best they can, given the circumstances. There aren't any female characters like this in Berserk, and that's my main issue. And are you really saying that Judeau and Pippin were bad characters because they couldn't survive a demon horde? No they weren't bad characters because they couldn't survive, and I'm saying that Caska isn't a bad character for not "surviving" it either Schierke and Farnese are doing the "best they can" in the circumstances as well. There ultimately aren't any paradigm characters.quote:I'm also definitely not saying that Luca or Caska are weak women, it's just that whenever Miura has a character like this he has to put them in some kind of position where they're subservient to men in some way, whether it be prostitute or child or rape victim. But there aren't any flawless men in Berserk, that's my point. Women in the middle ages weren't exactly thrust wildly into positions to shine, compared to history, Berserk is positively progressive. EVERYONE has massive flaws/ basically suck. The only one that didn't seem so was Griffith for a long time, and well, we saw where that went! Hell, Guts has more problems then EVERYONE in the story. He's borderline psychotic, addicted to adrenaline, has psychological issues up the wazoo, is insecure, patently useless in anything not "mass murderer", and ultimately can't accomplish much besides the fact that he has never given up, and never will. But he's a good character FOR those flaws. And if we're going to go across the spectrum, Slann is a female character who is a God and basically is a complete rear end in a top hat subservient to no one, unless you're going to say that her having a twisted attachment to Guts is demeaning to her female identity...?
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Dec 12, 2008 05:33
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Zorak posted:They Nobles are hindered by the fact that they're useless nobles who don't do anything whatsoever? And they're slaves to their blind faith to a hero figure who is leading around a group of cannibalistic men-turned-monster? Nothing wrong with that at all...? They're emotionally weak, undeveloped characters, I don't know why this makes them "superior" in terms of character to a risk taking, open-minded, woman just because she's not an adult/ she occasionally watches over a retarded woman? I think I've made it pretty clear that I don't think caska/luca/whoever are inherently weak characters. My problem with Berserk is that these otherwise strong female characters are constantly put in positions where, despite these strengths they are subservient to men. There are a lot of male characters that get dealt a bad hand, yeah, but it's not inevitable like it apparently is with the female characters. It's possible to write medieval fiction and still give women a fair shake. Caska, in particular, was a pretty good example until her TREACHEROUS VAGINA betrayed her on the field of battle and Gutts had to save her. Can you really say that scene wasn't over the foul line? And everyone aside from Gutts' crew loves Griffith, for good reason (Well, except the Balalaika guys). I'm not trying to argue that the two nobles aren't minor characters. They're just two dudes that happen to be well-adjusted. I think we might have to agree to disagree over Farnese. I mean, sure, she saved her fiance once, but I still think it's ridiculous that she's rejoining the human race through housekeeping and childcare. I might be more forgiving if I didn't have the problems I did with the other female characters. Zorak posted:And if we're going to go across the spectrum, Slann is a female character who is a God and basically is a complete rear end in a top hat subservient to no one, unless you're going to say that her having a twisted attachment to Guts is demeaning to her female identity...? come on dude if you can do this i can say all of the apostles we've seen so far are good examples of male characters All Miura has to do is introduce one or two female characters when we hit Elfheim who are on the level of visibility of, say, the Balalaika, and I'll revise my opinion a bit. e: also if Caska is cool (or apathetic) with Griffith after she recovers like it's been implied she might be i'll probably puke blood GentlemanLoser fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Dec 12, 2008 |
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Dec 12, 2008 06:10
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For all my feminist needs, there's Claymore. I like Berserk machist the way it is 
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Dec 12, 2008 08:40
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GentlemanLoser posted:Caska, in particular, was a pretty good example until her TREACHEROUS VAGINA betrayed her on the field of battle and Gutts had to save her. Can you really say that scene wasn't over the foul line? Call Miura's social life into question all you want, but Berserk isn't substantially misogynistic. The women in the story have realistically accomplished a lot, given their context. They are in a world where women are expected to be homemakers and not go off to battle, which historically correct. Ultimately, what is the current arc about? It's about making Caska awesome again. Thus Miura is not afraid of strong women. He's trying to rectify it as fast as he can. It's Griffith who is afraid of women and is delaying Caska's revival by taking up so many two page spreads. This maybe isn't as coherent as I'd hoped but I'm a bit drunk.
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Dec 12, 2008 10:14
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Im sorry guys, but Im not seeing a nice fairy tail ending to Berserk. The way I see it, everyone of Guts new companions will die, he will go berserk and kill Griffith in all his uncontrolled rage, but in the process losing all of his humanity, and just end up like a wraith scourging the lands looking for the last remaining apostles. Or something like that. 
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Dec 12, 2008 13:48
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I'm on the Caska should be the one to kill Griffith bandwagon too. Other than that one thing, and hoping there's some hope in the end I don't really mind how it ends.
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Dec 12, 2008 13:57
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whether or not this particular show or story is sexist/racist ranks very high among the most pointless forums discussions.
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Dec 12, 2008 15:13
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Niddhogg posted:whether or not this particular show or story is sexist/racist ranks very high among the most pointless forums discussions. we are discussing anime on an anime forum do you really think every post should be about how long the wait between chapters is or the latest griffith close up spread
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Dec 12, 2008 17:14
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While I do see GentlemanLoser's point about the sexism, compared to a lot of manga/anime series from Japan, Berserk isn't that bad. The main problem is just that it seems Japan as a whole is sexist and so a lot of that ends up in the works they create. Also I'm glad he brought this up since he's right that talking endlessly about how we're excited that a new chapter is coming out on XX date, and then having it pushed back for whatever Miura reason, does get a bad old.
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Dec 12, 2008 17:48
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GentlemanLoser posted:we are discussing anime on an anime forum You're a loving idiot. There's other things to discuss between chapter dates and sexism.
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Dec 12, 2008 18:04
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Niddhogg posted:You're a loving idiot. There's other things to discuss between chapter dates and sexism. What's inherently wrong with discussing whether sexism exists in berserk?
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Dec 12, 2008 18:43
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Who the gently caress cares
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Dec 12, 2008 18:58
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someone has concerns about a japanese comic book god drat IT why is this POINDEXTER NERD VIRGIN rocking the boat we don't believe in critical thinking or discourse unless we're in class everything is falling apart
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Dec 12, 2008 19:21
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No it's because bitches ain't poo poo and Guts knows this 
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Dec 12, 2008 19:23
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Gvaz posted:No it's because bitches ain't poo poo and Guts knows this  single emoticon reply biotch i guve no gently caress
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Dec 12, 2008 19:28
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GentlemanLoser posted:someone has concerns about a japanese comic book god drat IT why is this POINDEXTER NERD VIRGIN rocking the boat we don't believe in critical thinking or discourse unless we're in class everything is falling apart No it's just pointless because this discussion can go on for 10 pages and never be resolved. But hey it's better than discussion nanomachines.
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Dec 13, 2008 03:25
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Niddhogg posted:No it's just pointless because this discussion can go on for 10 pages and never be resolved. But hey it's better than discussion nanomachines. Doesn't mean it's not interesting to read, does it?
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Dec 13, 2008 03:32
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It's not interesting to read because it's an inane argument Who cares if it's slightly sexist, if you've got a problem there are much better candidates for sexism than this.
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Dec 13, 2008 03:36
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Niddhogg posted:No it's just pointless because this discussion can go on for 10 pages and never be resolved. But hey it's better than discussion nanomachines. not debating something because the answer isn't immediately clear isn't really a good attitude to have man Gvaz posted:It's not interesting to read because it's an inane argument the non-overt nature of berserk's sexism is what makes it worth discussing as opposed to some lame harem series where the issues are immediately obvious to anyone with a functioning brainstem hth
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Dec 13, 2008 04:18
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GentlemanLoser posted:not debating something because the answer isn't immediately clear isn't really a good attitude to have man There's a difference between "pointless" and "no clear answer".
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Dec 13, 2008 04:45
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Niddhogg posted:There's a difference between "pointless" and "no clear answer". debating the depiction of women in a comic isn't pointless tho
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Dec 13, 2008 04:54
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The only thing better than arguing if manga is sexist is arguing over whether or not it's worth arguing if manga is sexist.
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Dec 13, 2008 05:07
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Ooh boy, lots of posts... update? Oh... no.
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Dec 13, 2008 06:39
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