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RoboChrist 9000 posted:No. If I am mistaken True Resurrection requires only some sort of intimate knowledge of the corpse in question. So that True Necromancer chick that Xykon hired could Ressurect just about anything. 
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Feb 6, 2009 12:51
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LightWarden posted:So, the dragon is at least a 14th level caster. Ouch. And it's nice to see that V's mate and offspring are as androgynous as V is. I also like that they're running with the "20 years of diapers" thing. True Resurrection has probably been house ruled out, otherwise we probably wouldn't have this situation.
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Feb 6, 2009 13:11
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Oh nooo! Run kids, run! 
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Feb 6, 2009 15:36
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See, now this is the sign of a great comic. Rich has me absolutely HATING that dragon. It all sort of made sense, from a grieving parent stand-point, but once the skinning of V's mate came up? Well, drat, I hate him a lot now. So, yeah, my money's on a deal with either imp boy or one of imp-boys friends. Of course, I am being captain Obvious at this point.
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Feb 6, 2009 15:42
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You missed a ranged touch attack on a dragon, V? That's just . . . really, really sad.
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Feb 6, 2009 15:58
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Prediction: V will deliberate about 5 minutes too long, and the family will be horribly killed. Having pissed off the only cleric that V knows, she decides to take a page from the Dragon's book, and seeks out arcane power for all the wrong reasons: Primarily, revenge. Then the 4 words, allying with the imp, etc, etc.
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Feb 6, 2009 16:05
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Pyre_89 posted:See, now this is the sign of a great comic. Rich has me absolutely HATING that dragon. I think it's the soul-binding thing that's most effective. If you've read Start of Darkness Rich seems to have a big hard-on for torturing people by not letting their loved ones reach the afterlife.
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Feb 6, 2009 16:11
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The thing that really grated on me was the 'Parent' and 'Other Parent'. I feel like Burlew has done a really good job of making V's gender-ambiguity seem well-integrated into the narrative. It's obviously a recurring thing, but its fitted in really well. 'Other Parent' is just so awkward, it makes the whole 'I'm not going to tell you' really obvious. Not that I can suggest a more natural way to do it.
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Feb 6, 2009 17:05
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Affi posted:True Resurrection has probably been house ruled out, otherwise we probably wouldn't have this situation. Maybe there just aren't any divine spellcasters of a high-enough level in the game world? Or none who'd be willing to help out a black dragon?
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Feb 6, 2009 17:05
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Ashcans posted:The thing that really grated on me was the 'Parent' and 'Other Parent'. I feel like Burlew has done a really good job of making V's gender-ambiguity seem well-integrated into the narrative. It's obviously a recurring thing, but its fitted in really well. 'Other Parent' is just so awkward, it makes the whole 'I'm not going to tell you' really obvious. Yeah it was a bit annoying, but the badass, rear end in a top hat black dragon sort of makes up for it.
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Feb 6, 2009 17:12
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I am utterly convinced that V is male and Burlew is just making the dialogue sound awkward and inconclusive to annoy you guys. Also I think the dialogue should get a pass on sounding unnatural because it is inside angle brackets, so it is clearly a direct translation from some obscure elvish dialect where it sounds perfectly natural.
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Feb 6, 2009 17:16
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Vanadium posted:I am utterly convinced that V is male and Burlew is just making the dialogue sound awkward and inconclusive to annoy you guys. Speaking of elves, have we seen any other elves in the strip other than V&company? I wonder all elves in the land of OOTS are androgynous.
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Feb 6, 2009 17:20
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Affi posted:True Resurrection has probably been house ruled out, otherwise we probably wouldn't have this situation. Soul Bind specifically states that True Resurrection, or even a wish or miracle doesn't work on it, you have to break the spell manually.
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Feb 6, 2009 17:24
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His linear guild drow counterpart comes to mind, but I am pretty sure there were a bunch of others.
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Feb 6, 2009 17:24
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ConfusedUs posted:Speaking of elves, have we seen any other elves in the strip other than V&company? There was Nale's companion who was absolutely not a knock-off of Drizzt, other than that I can't think of anyone.
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Feb 6, 2009 17:25
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Ashcans posted:The thing that really grated on me was the 'Parent' and 'Other Parent'. I feel like Burlew has done a really good job of making V's gender-ambiguity seem well-integrated into the narrative. It's obviously a recurring thing, but its fitted in really well. 'Other Parent' is just so awkward, it makes the whole 'I'm not going to tell you' really obvious. I suppose "Elder Parent" and "Younger Parent" might seem a more natural distinction, though I'm hard-pressed to think of why a language wouldn't distinguish between the titles of the two parents, given the presumed biological differences in their duties at least until the child is weaned. Do we know if the children are biological, or adopted? Can we even say "V's mate is of the opposite sex"?
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Feb 6, 2009 17:39
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maltesh posted:Do we know if the children are biological, or adopted? Can we even say "V's mate is of the opposite sex"? I'm actually voting adopted myself, unless there's some kind of ancient elven ritual where their offspring are born with dark skin and then end up going through some kind of bleaching ceremony on their hundredth birthday. Both V and his mate are white as gently caress, and those kids definitely aren't.
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Feb 6, 2009 18:19
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Vanadium posted:I am utterly convinced that V is male and Burlew is just making the dialogue sound awkward and inconclusive to annoy you guys. I don't know, the mate seems like it might just be the fruity guy kind of elf with long green hair all wanting to be Orlando Bloom or whatever.
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Feb 6, 2009 18:28
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Well there you are then, both V and his/her mate could be of the same sex and the chillins' adopted. It'd be a funny swerve.
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Feb 6, 2009 18:55
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seaborgium posted:Soul Bind specifically states that True Resurrection, or even a wish or miracle doesn't work on it, you have to break the spell manually. The reference was to the dragon's disintegrated child being True Resurrected, not V's soon-to-be-dragon-chow kids. Short of a house rule, I don't see any reason why that wouldn't work. Perhaps the removal of the dragon's hoard left him without a material component for TR or enough gold with which to buy one. Soul Binding the kids and vanishing with the gems, however, is just a pure dick move of Biblical proportions.
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Feb 6, 2009 19:32
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Amused Frog posted:I think it's the soul-binding thing that's most effective. If you've read Start of Darkness Rich seems to have a big hard-on for torturing people by not letting their loved ones reach the afterlife.
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Feb 6, 2009 20:10
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MelvinTheJerk posted:I don't know, the mate seems like it might just be the fruity guy kind of elf with long green hair all wanting to be Orlando Bloom or whatever. Actually, it occurs to me - who's to say V's mate isn't a reasonably high-powered cleric or dragonfighter or some poo poo? I guess then V wouldn't have made such a big deal about it, but it might be something new to V that Other Parent learned while V was away.
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Feb 6, 2009 20:15
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Correnth posted:I'm actually voting adopted myself, unless there's some kind of ancient elven ritual where their offspring are born with dark skin and then end up going through some kind of bleaching ceremony on their hundredth birthday. Both V and his mate are white as gently caress, and those kids definitely aren't. That was my initial reaction, too. I wouldn't be surprised if V and mate are eventually revealed as same sex, hence adoption, though which sex will of course be left up in the air.
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Feb 6, 2009 20:27
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CK07 posted:Actually, it occurs to me - who's to say V's mate isn't a reasonably high-powered cleric or dragonfighter or some poo poo? I guess then V wouldn't have made such a big deal about it, but it might be something new to V that Other Parent learned while V was away. V cuts a deal with the Imp in order to get help to save the kids, teleports there in time to see the mate giving the dragon a beatdown, and is stuck with the deal made to no gain. 
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Feb 6, 2009 20:49
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The more I think about it, the more I wonder . . . making a deal with the devil to save your children . . . while kind of crazy, I don't think that is "All the wrong Reasons." Damning yourself to eternal hellfire to save your children from a fate worse than death? Thats pretty drat noble in my books. So, I don't think the deal will be made to save the kids, but something after. I really don't like to speculate, I just like to let the story unfold. That being said . . . I do like stories where good doesn't always triumph.
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Feb 6, 2009 21:44
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Affi posted:True Resurrection has probably been house ruled out, otherwise we probably wouldn't have this situation. True Resurrection most certainly exists, though it's not entirely clear who's high enough in level to cast it, so I guess that explains why junior dragon is gone.
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Feb 6, 2009 21:46
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delfin posted:The reference was to the dragon's disintegrated child being True Resurrected, not V's soon-to-be-dragon-chow kids. Short of a house rule, I don't see any reason why that wouldn't work. Perhaps the removal of the dragon's hoard left him without a material component for TR or enough gold with which to buy one. It is a dragon though, so I'm imagining it could pull up enough gold somewhere to get the kid back. And dragons live a long time, missing out on a few years with their kid probably isn't too much of a stretch. It's probably just a plot device.
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Feb 6, 2009 22:20
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seaborgium posted:It is a dragon though, so I'm imagining it could pull up enough gold somewhere to get the kid back. And dragons live a long time, missing out on a few years with their kid probably isn't too much of a stretch. It's probably just a plot device. You could apply exactly the same logic to mid-level elven mage, so I think that's out. Dragons are equally as intelligent and emotionally able as humanoids, if not more so, even if they're chromatic and therefore evil.
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Feb 6, 2009 22:36
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CK07 posted:You could apply exactly the same logic to mid-level elven mage, so I think that's out. Dragons are equally as intelligent and emotionally able as humanoids, if not more so, even if they're chromatic and therefore evil. Not really. Elves live centuries, but dragons live millennia. A few years would be as much of an elf's life as a few months to a human, which might be rough, but it'd be as much to a dragon as a couple of days to a human, worrisome but not much of a concern.
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Feb 6, 2009 22:47
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DoctorTristan posted:There was Nale's companion who was absolutely not a knock-off of Drizzt, other than that I can't think of anyone. Liiran, the druid who was a member of the old party that created the gates, was an elf, and an obvious female. And the Drizzt knockoff was referred to by his party AND V as male, so definately a guy. The gender joke with V isn't something Berlew thought up on his own, he admits that he only ran with it after he noticed fans on his message board arguing over it.
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Feb 6, 2009 23:16
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Pyre_89 posted:The more I think about it, the more I wonder . . . making a deal with the devil to save your children . . . while kind of crazy, I don't think that is "All the wrong Reasons." Damning yourself to eternal hellfire to save your children from a fate worse than death? Thats pretty drat noble in my books. It's not noble in the D&D universe, though. If you go to Hell (or any of its neighbouring planes) as your afterlife it doesn't just mean that you suffer for eternity, it means that your tortured soul is literally crafted into a new creature expressly devoted to causing pain and misery in others. Theoretically V could sell his/her soul, die, then a few millenia later become an arch-devil responsible for vastly more imaginative carnage than anything the dragon could have cooked up. Or if you're soul isn't quite so successful at the whole demon thing you'll just end up as a spell component for another more powerful fiend, with said spell likely heralding something horribly unpleasant for another innocent. There's really no way to claim a moral victory when you deal with the devil.
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Feb 7, 2009 00:16
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Tag Plastic posted:That was my initial reaction, too. I wouldn't be surprised if V and mate are eventually revealed as same sex, hence adoption, though which sex will of course be left up in the air. That would definitely make the "Parent/Other Parent" translation more fitting. Particularly so if V's mate is the biological parent of the children, and V's their step-parent. (Though I probably would actually have translated "step-parent" in that case)
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Feb 7, 2009 01:05
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In a lot of fantasy fiction Elven society is portrayed as having no patriarchy whatsoever, in fact I'm pretty sure that's what the elf flavor text in the Player's Handbook says. At any level of society you're just as likely to find a female filling a particular role as a male. Considering how little regard Elves have for gender, it shouldn't be a surprise that the elven language has no seperate words for parent based on the gender of that parent. Hell, there probably aren't any pronouns like he/she/him/her/etc. Also, V's pretty hosed.
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Feb 7, 2009 01:56
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Spaz mk. 2.0 posted:In a lot of fantasy fiction Elven society is portrayed as having no patriarchy whatsoever, in fact I'm pretty sure that's what the elf flavor text in the Player's Handbook says. At any level of society you're just as likely to find a female filling a particular role as a male. Considering how little regard Elves have for gender, it shouldn't be a surprise that the elven language has no seperate words for parent based on the gender of that parent. Hell, there probably aren't any pronouns like he/she/him/her/etc. The one who's closest? Elven kid wakes up in the middle of the light, yells "PARENT!" One of the parents climbs out of bed, and goes to the room. "No, I meant 'Other Parent.'" Many such mixups will ensue. Maybe not within the family, but certainly when talking with people outside the family. The one who didn't give birth to the children? Unacceptable if you wish to maintain the mystery of gender. If the parents are considered to be of equal status in the relationship, then you might as well just use their names, with a parental modifier, should one be required. It just seems to me, from the single bit of dialogue that we have where the terms "Parent" and "Other Parent" are used, that the use of the latter points to a relationship that is more removed. in a manner other than physically, than that of "Parent," for the sake of conversational consistency. I'm probably overthinking this far too much, though. And yeah, I agree. V's hosed. And it seems likely to lead to more Split-Party Adventures.
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Feb 7, 2009 04:07
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maltesh posted:Lack of gender in third-person pronouns is fine. Plenty of Earth languages are like that. However, the problem comes when you want to refer to a specific individual. How do you determine who's "Other Parent?" It could be simple enough that 'Other Parent' isn't actually a proper noun, but just an adjective and a noun-- literally, other parent. 'Parent', or the elven equivalent word, could simply be a gender-neutral way to respectfully directly address the person, and outside of such a situation where it's appropriate or practical, they just go with a name or something like 'Parent (Name)'. I'm pulling this all out of my rear end, but it's hardly improbable.
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Feb 7, 2009 05:50
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maltesh posted:Lack of gender in third-person pronouns is fine. Plenty of Earth languages are like that. However, the problem comes when you want to refer to a specific individual. How do you determine who's "Other Parent?" Sure, but if there's ambiguity involved, you refer to them by name. I know in some (incoming helldump thread in 5, 4) polyamorous relationships I've been in, it's not completely ridiculous to refer to whoever you're hanging out with right then as "girl", and your other partner as "other girl". (Obviously swapping genders as necessary.) The only reason "parent" feels weird for me is because "parent" is two syllables, while "mom" or "dad" is one. If you had, say, two moms, "mom" and "other mom" would seem totally reasonable, and if elves are really that gender-neutral, I imagine they have a one-syllable word for "parent". In fact, "mom" and "dad" might very well be two-syllable words, or even something along the lines of "male parent" and "female parent". Essentially, if it's translated from another language, which it is, I find all that to be entirely plausible.
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Feb 7, 2009 08:25
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This argument on possible translation limitations of elven to english is like, brain poison or something.
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Feb 7, 2009 08:58
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What sex is V is just as annoying as the alignment argument, in that no-one ever agrees on anything and it has little or no baring on the story.
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Feb 7, 2009 17:02
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The dragon ignoring True Resurrection is really annoying me. It would totally be within the realm of possibility for a black dragon to res it's child then seek ferocious revenge anyway. Unless V develops superpowers in the next 2 panels it looks like his family is super boned.Jeet posted:What sex is V is just as annoying as the alignment argument, in that no-one ever agrees on anything and it has little or no baring on the story. mango sentinel posted:At least it's staving off the imminent reoccurence of THE GENDER ARGUMENT.
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Feb 7, 2009 20:27
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mango sentinel posted:The dragon ignoring True Resurrection is really annoying me. It would totally be within the realm of possibility for a black dragon to res it's child then seek ferocious revenge anyway. Haley mentioned a while back during the Roy plot that she wasn't even sure if this world had any 17th level clerics. It could be that there in fact aren't any in this world, and so True Res isn't an option.
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Feb 8, 2009 00:04
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