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Ok I need some help from some iscsi gurus and I figured this was the place to ask. I have an EMC CX3-10 array and a file server running win2k3 attached to it running powerpath 5.2 and iscsi initiator. This server is losing its shares every time it gets rebooted. No problem right? The lanman service is coming up before the iScsi targets are reconnected. Well, that is the problem. I have gone through the process of making the lanman service dependent upon the iscsi and powerpath services but I am still having the problem of the shares being down upon reboot and having to reshare the folders. I have gone through Dell support and still have an active ticket with those guys but I thought maybe there was something I was missing that one of you guys could throw my way.
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# ? Mar 6, 2009 21:23 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 18:04 |
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Syano posted:Ok I need some help from some iscsi gurus and I figured this was the place to ask. I have an EMC CX3-10 array and a file server running win2k3 attached to it running powerpath 5.2 and iscsi initiator. This server is losing its shares every time it gets rebooted. No problem right? The lanman service is coming up before the iScsi targets are reconnected. Well, that is the problem. I have gone through the process of making the lanman service dependent upon the iscsi and powerpath services but I am still having the problem of the shares being down upon reboot and having to reshare the folders. Try to have the lanman service dependent on the spooler service. IIRC, it's one of the last services to come up.
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# ? Mar 6, 2009 21:38 |
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I think I solved my own issue so I figured I would come post in case anyone would benefit. It appears that in the PowerPath 5.2 software the iSCSI targets show as "Powerpath Device" in the registry instead of "iSCSI Device" therefore they cannot be bound persistent with the iSCSI initiator. There is a registry fix available that involves basically adding a DWORD value. Of course I can't test it right now because I can't just reboot a file server willy nilly when I want to.
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# ? Mar 6, 2009 23:11 |
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Not sure if this is the best place to ask but should be close enough. We run a test model environment where a bunch of projects come in and set up model networks etc and test them out before they go and build a live version. All of this has been internal-company type stuff, but we're about to now go into a cost-recovery charging model where we'll charge the individual projects for the various model services. One of the things my boss is interested in doing is providing a simple backup service that we can charge the projects for on a per TB basis or whatever, and is wondering what can be done in the way of a proof of concept. He's currently thinking something in the realm of NZ$2000 (about US$1k) to start with, and eventually having us go to a larger setup once projects come in that have the requirement for a large amount of backup space. What's a good way to set up a reasonably cheap NAS-like solution, preferably something that has a simple to use interface for management, and of course works across various OS's. Performance isn't a major factor as it'll only be for backups and recovery, not live storage. I was thinking a large server with a bunch of 1TB drives in it, but not sure what would be a good software for this. And ultimately we're only a test environment, not production, so there's nothing life and death about the solution.
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# ? Mar 8, 2009 23:08 |
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Thought I'd provide an update on my Sun X4540 / Thor adventures. I haven't had a lot of time to devote to it, so it's been sitting around as a $100k test environment... would've been my dream to play around with it had I not been so busy. We had to use OpenSolaris 2008.11 for the in-kernel CIFS service, but it introduced us to a bit of a "void" with Sun support. Granted, we PAID for Solaris -and- OpenSolaris support contracts, when you call/e-mail support regarding OpenSolaris, the Sun support people are virtually useless. They know nothing about OpenSolaris, and still think it's not even released yet (my christ...). So I've been doing all my own support related to ZFS snapshots, replication, iSCSI target software, network stack kernel panics, and on and on. I'm really not happy with Sun themselves, but theres nowhere else you can get 100TB for $100k, even with some of the issues we're running into, its a good deal. Most of my issues are resolved, or worked around, and we're seeing 100+MB/sec on CIFS reads and writes, and iSCSI performance is near wire-speed as well. Though we did have to disable the ZIL, which puts us at a small risk for data loss, before it enters production I intend to install a separate file system log device on an SSD or something for performance. I'm at the point now, that bonded GigE ports aren't enough, we can saturate 400MB/sec quite easily, and the Sun box isn't even sweating. I'm hoping with 10GigE, I can make the server get a good workout! Overall, if you have Solaris/OpenSolaris experience, and some time to work out kinks in your environment, I'm pleased with our solution. However, if you are faint of heart, or lack Solaris skills, stay away from Sun for the time being. With risk, comes reward though. Or loss of your job.
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# ? Mar 9, 2009 11:19 |
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Hmm. We could not get out x4500 anywhere near wirespeed using iSCSI. Wondering now if the x4540 is that much better... Any see my question on the last page on deduplication?
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# ? Mar 9, 2009 13:12 |
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complex posted:Hmm. We could not get out x4500 anywhere near wirespeed using iSCSI. Wondering now if the x4540 is that much better...
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# ? Mar 9, 2009 16:07 |
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Misogynist posted:What iSCSI target stack were you using, out of curiosity? Windows Server, not sure what version, 2003? I'm not a Windows guy.
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# ? Mar 9, 2009 16:17 |
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complex posted:Windows Server, not sure what version, 2003? I'm not a Windows guy.
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# ? Mar 9, 2009 16:19 |
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Doh. Sorry. Target, not initiator. Solaris 10 U4
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# ? Mar 9, 2009 16:31 |
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complex posted:What kind of performance hit will deduplication incur? It can perform very well. I have a customer with de-duped webservers (several hundred of them per filer) and he's seeing a huge savings on disk space. You can reduce the negative quote:I can see both sides of it: if I am just reading the same block all the time (say, a shared object in Linux or a DLL in Windows), then if that block is deduped then I'll be winning. But lets say I modify that block, then the storage array will sort of have to pull that block out and now start keeping a second copy of it, and managing that slows the array down. Its not so much the managing of that second block as it is too many servers actually trying to access that block and if you don't have it cached.
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# ? Mar 9, 2009 20:50 |
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Bumping this in the hopes that some EMC guys can tell me about RecoveryPoint and how it can give me application consistent replication/handles quiescing of snapshots. Are you still watching?
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 06:24 |
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I hate sales people. I want to get pricing on some lefthand gear, but I don't want to listen to any of their spiel, or get follow up calls only to have the person get pissy when I remind them we're a public school and everything comes down to dollars, not necessarily doing things the proper way. I don't want to talk to a reseller either. All I want to know is how much it costs. Are there any resources available which might have this information available without having to talk to someone or does it pretty much come down to having to put up with sales people?
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 15:28 |
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InferiorWang posted:I hate sales people. I want to get pricing on some lefthand gear, but I don't want to listen to any of their spiel, or get follow up calls only to have the person get pissy when I remind them we're a public school and everything comes down to dollars, not necessarily doing things the proper way. I don't want to talk to a reseller either. All I want to know is how much it costs. I'll send you the numbers I've seen, but you don't seem to accept emails/pms.
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 15:36 |
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1000101 posted:Bumping this in the hopes that some EMC guys can tell me about RecoveryPoint and how it can give me application consistent replication/handles quiescing of snapshots. Edit: I also just shot off a email to my EMC guys to make sure there is not another way with the new SE version. Catch 22 fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Mar 18, 2009 |
# ? Mar 18, 2009 15:46 |
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Maneki Neko posted:I'll send you the numbers I've seen, but you don't seem to accept emails/pms. I didn't realize that I had email turned off. I turned it on. No PM because I'm a cheap bastard who never purchased it. Thanks!
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 15:48 |
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InferiorWang posted:I didn't realize that I had email turned off. I turned it on. No PM because I'm a cheap bastard who never purchased it.
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 15:50 |
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Intrepid00 posted:Update since we put Lefthand boxes in production... Just out of interest which boxes did you go for, and how many apps/users are they supporting?
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 17:10 |
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InferiorWang posted:I hate sales people. I want to get pricing on some lefthand gear, but I don't want to listen to any of their spiel, or get follow up calls only to have the person get pissy when I remind them we're a public school and everything comes down to dollars, not necessarily doing things the proper way. I don't want to talk to a reseller either. All I want to know is how much it costs. Get a full retail quote from them for "the right way", have them itemize costs as much as they can claiming government red tape. Then, generate quote for what you actually want, cut price 50%, and make up a PO. Call them up and send them your proposal and tell them it's this or EMC. See what happens. You generally won't be able to cut the service contract by nearly 50%, and I assume this is required by your school policy. If they still balk, remind them that you have to keep a service contract on the device for 3? 5? years due to that same government red tape. Don't be afraid to lie outright to them, their sales guys will do the same to you. H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Mar 18, 2009 |
# ? Mar 18, 2009 17:12 |
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H110Hawk posted:Get a full retail quote from them for "the right way", have them itemize costs as much as they can claiming government red tape. Then, generate quote for what you actually want, cut price 50%, and make up a PO. Call them up and send them your proposal and tell them it's this or EMC. See what happens. You generally won't be able to cut the service contract by nearly 50%, and I assume this is required by your school policy. You can also save by doing the install yourself (if they are charging for it) and if you get the Manufacture behind you they can discount the Vendors quote passing savings to you. In my case I got a discount and a extra warranty year for nothing. Call Lefthand and talk with them. It can pay off.
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 17:20 |
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Catch 22 posted:You can also save by doing the install yourself (if they are charging for it) and if you get the Manufacture behind you they can discount the Vendors quote passing savings to you. In my case I got a discount and a extra warranty year for nothing. Call Lefthand and talk with them. It can pay off. Self-install of most stuff is a snap, assuming you aren't afraid of lifting disk trays. Just make sure a self-install doesn't conflict with your service contract and warranty. If it does, they should do it for free since you are paying for it with the service contract.
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 19:18 |
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Thanks fellas. What I'd really like to do is have an iSCSI SAN, 2-4 TB. I'd like to host a modest amount of vmware guests on it hosting primarily file shares, home directories, and groupwise email for the staff numbering 250-300. Then I'd like to do it all over again with a completely redundant SAN at one of our other schools in some sort of fail over configuration. Being able to do snapshots and have some sort of monitoring dashboard is something I'd like as well. My problem is I can't even get anyone to listen to me about doing this and getting away from bare metal machines for our critical data without having some semblance of a dollar figure attached to it. I have to approach this rear end backwards from how most normal people would approach it.
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 19:58 |
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Catch 22 posted:You would get an app consistent snap first (using SnapView to manage and set this up) then RecoverPoint replicates at the blocklevel (clones) the LUN. Flatfiles would not need the snap first. You happen to have any links to EMC papers that talk about SnapView integration and how it works to quiesce data stored on a VMFS volume? Google has me coming up clean and all the VMware integration papers have pretty much this to say: "SnapView makes clones!" But it doesn't tell me how it handles application quiescing. Something else has pointed me to yet another product (Replication Manager) but I want to make sure there isn't something else I need.
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 21:44 |
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So what Recoverpoint does is, as far as i'm aware, is use Replication Manager as the tool that makes the snaps and clones. Replication Manager has been around for years and is a standalone product but is integrated / bundles when Recoverpoint is sold. Replication manager manages the snaps / clones on the array as it has the integration brains with regards to Exchange, SQL, VMWare, etc. Array based snap tools are SNapview (Clariion) or Timefinder Snap (DMX) When it comes to application such as exchange it uses VSS, with Orcale it puts the DB in hot backup mode, etc. Here is a blog that discusses the two options open to you - array based snapshots or the VM flavour http://virtualgeek.typepad.com/virtual_geek/2009/02/howto---vmware-integrated-and-application-integrated-array-replicas.html Let me know if anything isn't clear, i've dug the above link out real quick as i've a million things to do
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 22:15 |
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InferiorWang posted:Thanks fellas. What I'd really like to do is have an iSCSI SAN, 2-4 TB. I'd like to host a modest amount of vmware guests on it hosting primarily file shares, home directories, and groupwise email for the staff numbering 250-300. Then I'd like to do it all over again with a completely redundant SAN at one of our other schools in some sort of fail over configuration. Being able to do snapshots and have some sort of monitoring dashboard is something I'd like as well. Pick a big number and get them to approve that, then show off how good you are by coming in under budget!
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 22:42 |
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InferiorWang posted:Thanks fellas. What I'd really like to do is have an iSCSI SAN, 2-4 TB. I'd like to host a modest amount of vmware guests on it hosting primarily file shares, home directories, and groupwise email for the staff numbering 250-300. Then I'd like to do it all over again with a completely redundant SAN at one of our other schools in some sort of fail over configuration. Being able to do snapshots and have some sort of monitoring dashboard is something I'd like as well. You might be able to get pricing guesstimates on the Lefthand stuff (since email doesn't seem to be working on the forums at the moment) by googling part numbers from here: http://www.gosignal.com/datasheets/lefthandsan.pdf 2-4 TB isn't much storage wise, my ballpark guess for the SATA starter edition with installation would be around 30k, but you should hopefully be able to negotiate that down. Do you have a CDW rep? If not, call and get one ask for pricing on those part numbers. Those guys are frothing at the mouth for sales right now.
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 23:04 |
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Vanilla posted:So what Recoverpoint does is, as far as i'm aware, is use Replication Manager as the tool that makes the snaps and clones. Replication Manager has been around for years and is a standalone product but is integrated / bundles when Recoverpoint is sold. So what its looking like is that if I want to take consistent snapshots of VMFS volumes, I need to buy Replication Manager correct? I presume it works by telling vCenter to take vmware snapshots (kicking off VSS in the guests) and when that completes it fires off an array based snapshot? (This is how SnapManager on NetApp works). The EMC engineer assigned to this account is pretty worthless when it comes to volunteering information and english isn't his first language which only makes things worse. edit: Many thanks for the blog entry, I see there is a cellera VSA there which will make my life about 1000 times easier.
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 23:15 |
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1000101 posted:So what its looking like is that if I want to take consistent snapshots of VMFS volumes, I need to buy Replication Manager correct? Correct, get the local engineer / TC to supply you with some documentation. He needs to qualify that RM will do what you want and work in yuor environment before you buy. Have a play with the 90 day demo. It's a great blog for anything EMC and VMware. I'm really getting into the VDI stuff personally.
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 23:29 |
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Vanilla posted:I'm really getting into the VDI stuff personally. Though my environment would never justify the costs, VDI is loving awesome. I can't wait to see what they do with laptops. eWeek had a neat article about hypervisors running on laptops.. With an extremely blurry line between personal and business use of laptops, there's only so much NAC, whitelisting, etc you can do without frustrating IT and your users...
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# ? Mar 18, 2009 23:57 |
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Vanilla posted:It's a great blog for anything EMC and VMware. I'm really getting into the VDI stuff personally. I'm currently at one of the largest retailers in the world doing a VMware design that specifically will be leveraging VDI and EMC storage. I want this to be as big a win as humanly possible for VMware and EMC since it will give us no end of clout with both organizations. It's also going to look great for me professionally. As such, I'm trying to dig up every word of information I can cram into my skull regarding EMC DR/BC, SRM integration, VMware integration, etc. My biggest complaint is that the guy who wrote the VMware whitepaper (h1416-emc-clariion-intgtn-vmware-wp) is either brain dead or has no idea how VMware works or how people are implementing VMware in their environments. I can't give this paper to a customer in the state it's currently in. Now that I know roughly what I'm looking for, I'm finding a decent amount of information though. I'll probably have Replication Manager running in my lab next week.
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# ? Mar 19, 2009 00:52 |
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InferiorWang posted:My problem is I can't even get anyone to listen to me about doing this and getting away from bare metal machines for our critical data without having some semblance of a dollar figure attached to it. I have to approach this rear end backwards from how most normal people would approach it. Remember above where I said lie to them? Do that. I imagine at this point they're calling you and wanting to setup meetings? Tell them to bring their spreadsheets because you have to talk cost as well as performance. Let them go through their whole dog and pony show with the glossy brochures and powerpoint, then ask them what "that" (pointing at the screen) costs. Play hardball right back.
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# ? Mar 19, 2009 00:56 |
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rage-saq posted:Pick a big number and get them to approve that, then show off how good you are by coming in under budget! I might be better off saying it's cheap and ending up over budget. Otherwise I'm likely to get this response: I'll look into the CDWG route. I do have a rep and he's generally pretty good.
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# ? Mar 19, 2009 14:23 |
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InferiorWang posted:I might be better off saying it's cheap and ending up over budget. Otherwise I'm likely to get this response: I'd advise against getting any kind of advice on important system design from what is essentially the best buy of product fulfillment centers. Call in a consultant and engage with them in a discovery and project assessment for virtualizing your infrastructure.
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# ? Mar 19, 2009 17:29 |
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rage-saq posted:I'd advise against getting any kind of advice on important system design from what is essentially the best buy of product fulfillment centers.
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# ? Mar 19, 2009 19:51 |
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rage-saq posted:I'd advise against getting any kind of advice on important system design from what is essentially the best buy of product fulfillment centers. Call in a consultant and engage with them in a discovery and project assessment for virtualizing your infrastructure. Check out my post history in this thread if you want to see why you shouldn't do this.
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# ? Mar 20, 2009 04:09 |
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Mierdaan posted:Check out my post history in this thread if you want to see why you shouldn't do this. Ha, yes. I remember watching that unfold. Mierdaan posted:Well, we've been hosed. rage-saq posted:Reason number 5234634 to not deal with those big fullfilment warehouses like CDW, PC-Mall etc for configs. I used CDW as a price wedge to Dell, and had EMC come in first hand to help, even using EMC to force Dells price point down. I love pitting vendors against each other in this current economy. They get vicious. I got our last SAN for a steal. With that said, do LOTs of homework. I spent 3 months prepping, getting performance metrics and even a few class seminars (not held by vendors, but by a partnership of peer firms, vendor held ones are all sales gimmicks and might drive you away from a better product) Its worth your time, as to not run into issues down the road. Catch 22 fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Mar 20, 2009 |
# ? Mar 20, 2009 16:28 |
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complex posted:Windows Server, not sure what version, 2003? I'm not a Windows guy. I use the OpenSolaris COMSTAR iSCSI target, with both Win2k3 and Win2k8 iSCSI initiators. Note: I DID disable the ZIL. I saw terrible numbers with it enabled (almost as slow as entry level EMC/BluArc) I'll get some DRAM ZIL device someday... I hope
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# ? Mar 21, 2009 06:47 |
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I have 4 Coraid SR-1521's with 15 x 500GB drives each (7.5 TB RAW each), willing to unload real cheap to the first people who PM me. I was using them for a media project and now no longer need them.
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# ? Mar 27, 2009 04:11 |
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Catch 22 posted:You would get an app consistent snap first (using SnapView to manage and set this up) then RecoverPoint replicates at the blocklevel (clones) the LUN. Flatfiles would not need the snap first. I just saw a presentation by EMC last week replicating Oracle RAC and it was pretty drat impressive. Now, it looks like managing the various caches may be a bit of a hassle, and it's the usual EMC CX4 stuff (I still like NetApp better), but for replicating copious amounts of data, this is some very good stuff. Cool part is they track the changes and only replicate changed block at certain interval (with Async), say like every 20-30 min, so unlike SnapMirror, the amount of data after compressions and folded writes (i think that's what the EMC engineer called the process) appears to be going 3-1 for Oracle. Not too shabby. That said, it's not cheap and requires whole bunch of fiber connections.
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# ? Mar 27, 2009 04:34 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 18:04 |
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brent78 posted:I have 4 Coraid SR-1521's with 15 x 500GB drives each (7.5 TB RAW each), willing to unload real cheap to the first people who PM me. I was using them for a media project and now no longer need them. I might take them. Shoot me a PM with your initial cost quote. How used are they?
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# ? Mar 27, 2009 21:41 |