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How can you all prefer the watch and Vimes to Rincewind? What's WRONG with you? I've never laughed as hard in my life as I did at The Last Continent. Vimes and the Watch are almost as boring as the drat witches because you know Vimes/Carrot/whoever is going to end up fine anyway. With Rincewind it's a complete toss up. He goes to different places all the time (atleast when Terry bothers to write about him). Also, he's bloody hilarious! He's the most original and human literary character I've ever read about. Whereas, let's face it, Vimes is just Dirty Harry (but now with a son for the reader to worry about). He fights criminally boring and two-dimensional villains, like Carcer (remember when the villains used to be funny?). And that's all he'll ever do. Ank-Morpork was far more dangerous and interesting before Terry turned it into Victorian London. Nowadays everything's just a predictable satire of a topical issue. The best books are anything with Rincewind in them. Unless you really hate the horrible injustices of life and really want the good guys to win. And you have a hardon for Clint Eastwood. Then go with Night Watch.
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Mar 20, 2009 09:11
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gfl posted:The best books are anything with Rincewind in them. I liked Rincewind when he was merely incompetent, but once he turned into the world greatest coward, not so much. Cowardice just isn't funny to me I guess.
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Mar 20, 2009 10:38
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I have to admit I don't know why the vast majority of Pratchett fans like the Watch books the best. I really liked Vimes when he was like Columbo, but lately, now that he's all serious and fighting to "control the beast inside", it's just... meh. The parallel with the Witches is obvious, because of Esme knowing she could be evil but knowing she has to do the Right Thing, but for some reason I find her a lot more of an interesting character. Maybe because she has better one-liners. Also, Michael Emerson would in fact be the perfect choice to play Vetinari. Please God, someone in Hollywood realize how amazing a Discworld film could be. I mean, Stardust was a hit movie and Pratchett has quite a few more fans than Neil Gaiman, especially in the UK.
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Mar 20, 2009 20:30
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precision posted:I have to admit I don't know why the vast majority of Pratchett fans like the Watch books the best. I really liked Vimes when he was like Columbo, but lately, now that he's all serious and fighting to "control the beast inside", it's just... meh. I find it a blessing that Hollywood has not gotten their hands on Discworld. They would defile it.
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Mar 20, 2009 21:51
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DontMockMySmock posted:I find it a blessing that Hollywood has not gotten their hands on Discworld. They would defile it. Apparently there was talk of doing a Mort movie but the Hollywood people didnt really want to keep the "Death" charachter cause he was such a downer. So as far as I am concerned, Im fine with Discworld staying off the Silver Screen.
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Mar 20, 2009 22:01
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I really wish something did come of that rumored Wee Free Men movie, especially with Sam Raimi involved.
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Mar 20, 2009 22:36
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DontMockMySmock posted:I find it a blessing that Hollywood has not gotten their hands on Discworld. They would defile it. The film versions of Stardust and Coraline are both incredibly faithful to the novels and very good movies. Automatically hating all things Hollywood is kind of a tired old trope, don't you think?
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Mar 20, 2009 22:36
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precision posted:The film versions of Stardust and Coraline are both incredibly faithful to the novels and very good movies. It didn't become a tired old trope by being false. Besides, I don't hate "all things Hollywood," just adaptations of novels/comic books/videogames/etc. that overwhelmingly tend to be terrible. Especially when they try to do something more mentally stimulating. I haven't seen those two movies you mentioned, but what I do know is that for each faithful, quality adaptation of a book, there are dozens of terrible ones. DontMockMySmock fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Mar 20, 2009 |
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Mar 20, 2009 23:16
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DontMockMySmock posted:It didn't become a tired old trope by being false. Besides, I don't hate "all things Hollywood," just adaptations of novels/comic books/videogames/etc. that overwhelmingly tend to be terrible. OK, but do you not realize that the majority of EVERYTHING is terrible? Most music, most art, most novels, most films, Hell, even most people! Surely you're aware of the notion of the Bell Curve?
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Mar 21, 2009 00:01
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precision posted:OK, but do you not realize that the majority of EVERYTHING is terrible? Most music, most art, most novels, most films, Hell, even most people! Surely you're aware of the notion of the Bell Curve?
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Mar 21, 2009 00:10
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precision posted:OK, but do you not realize that the majority of EVERYTHING is terrible? Most music, most art, most novels, most films, Hell, even most people! Surely you're aware of the notion of the Bell Curve? Doesn't change my point. My point is we do not want to take something known to be good (Discworld) and turn it into something bad, which is likely to happen if Hollywood gets their hands on it.
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Mar 21, 2009 00:42
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gfl posted:How can you all prefer the watch and Vimes to Rincewind? What's WRONG with you? What "toss up"? Whatever crisis any of the books revolve around is resolved in the end, the only difference being Vimes/Granny end up at home and Rincewind in some far away place. And slogging through hundreds of pages of "Haha! Australia!" jokes that any second-rate comedian could come up with isn't really worth it for the payoff of "Look, it's not really a happy ending as such." Especially if the ending is just a logical conclusion to the never-changing Rincewind pattern of "run away from dangerous situation (maybe loosely related to the central plot) just to hilariously end up in another dangerous situation (maybe loosely related to the already plot)". gfl posted:Ank-Morpork was far more dangerous and interesting before Terry turned it into Victorian London. Nowadays everything's just a predictable satire of a topical issue. That's because you can't really stretch the "satire of fantasy cliches" over 30+ books. Because - as much as I like fantasy - all of it revolves around a total of maybe 5 cliches. I also don't see how something like Going Postal is more predictable than The Last Continent. Well, maybe in the sense that Rincewind books (Interesting Times excluded) don't really have a noteworthy plot at all, they're more of a loosely connected series of rather random "funny scenes". I'm sorry if I seem to attack your personal tastes (which of course is rather pointless), but The Last Continent is the only discworld book I nearly stopped reading halfway through. I thought the end of discworld was neigh. That poo poo made me angry 
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Mar 21, 2009 14:03
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Let's be fair, The Last Continent is the only bad Rincewind book, and arguably the only bad Disc book period. Well, except for Monstrous Regiment, which isn't a bad book, but as a Disc novel it's fairly atrocious inasmuch as it doesn't feel like it's even connected to the rest of the Discworld.
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Mar 21, 2009 18:04
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precision posted:Let's be fair, The Last Continent is the only bad Rincewind book, and arguably the only bad Disc book period.  . Also Equal Rites is a bad Disc book. And personally, I liked Monstrous Regiment. I like how it starts out with "oh this tired old motif of chick pretending to be a dude to join the army" and then you slowly realize that just about everyone in the army is female.
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Mar 21, 2009 18:49
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You guys are all wrong. Moving Pictures is by far, and without question, the worst discworld book. Edit: Durr, Terry Pratchett never wrote a Dire Straights song. 
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Mar 21, 2009 18:59
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I don't know why people dislike Equal Rites, if you read the books in order it definitely feels like an improvement over the first two. And I didn't say I disliked Monstrous Regiment - I did like it, though I only laughed at the vampire's 'Nam flashbacks - I just don't think it felt like a Disc book at all. He could easily have made it a standalone. EDIT: Hey, I liked Making Movies. Then again, as previously mentioned, I read the books as they were published so I might not like it if I went back to it now.
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Mar 21, 2009 19:03
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LooseChanj posted:You guys are all wrong. Making Movies is by far, and without question, the worst discworld book. If it wasn't for Gaspode, you'd be right. Gaspode raises Making Movies above Last Continent. Good Dog! Soul Music and Making Movies feel like he had a checklist of cultural references that he worked through and then called it a day. Edit. Just to clarify: When I say a discworld book is bad, I'm talking mostly in relation to the rest of the series. Compared to other fantasy authors or bestseller hacks like Dan Brown even the worst Rincewind book is pure gold URINATING DOG! URINATING DOG! URINATING DOG! GhostDog fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Mar 21, 2009 |
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Mar 21, 2009 19:27
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GhostDog posted:Soul Music and Making Movies feel like he had a checklist of cultural references that he worked through and then called it a day. Yeah, there was so much stuff shoehorned in Flintstone style in both books. I wanted to like Soul Music, and I tried really hard but it's definitely toward the bottom in my list of favorites.
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Mar 21, 2009 19:42
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I agree about Soul Music, it did feel like an overly-intentional cultural parody that didn't quite have a good plot. Though "music with rocks in" and "We're Certainly Dwarves" are comedic gold.
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Mar 21, 2009 20:25
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precision posted:I agree about Soul Music, it did feel like an overly-intentional cultural parody that didn't quite have a good plot. Though "music with rocks in" and "We're Certainly Dwarves" are comedic gold. Don't forget "and some coke."
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Mar 21, 2009 20:36
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precision posted:"We're Certainly Dwarves". I completely missed that while reading the book. Some time later I was browsing the annotations on L-Space... References can be funny, no doubt about it. The rainy country Buddy comes from being called "Llamedos" got a good chuckle from me too, because it just sounds so perfectly elvish. Sod em all.
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Mar 21, 2009 20:52
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I think Soul Music definitely had the highest pun density of all his books. Not to mention Blues Brothers references. ("He can't stop us. We're on a mission from Glod!") Whether or not that's a good thing is a matter of opinion...
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Mar 21, 2009 21:21
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lots of people posted:Making Movies It's Moving Pictures, people. Or did it get a different title in the US or something? EDIT: and I suppose for content, I should say that I started reading the series at a fairly young age and began with Gotta tell you though, re-reading Soul Music after having watched the Blues Brothers for the first time was a trip. Mr. Moon fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Mar 21, 2009 |
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Mar 21, 2009 22:01
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Moving Pictures is terrible except for Gaspode and the ending. It's actually pretty decent early on and at the end. The middle doesn't have much to it. Rincewind's stories are more of a fantasy parody than the others. They also tend to have less cohesive plots. The Watch series is more satire than fantasy parody. A lot of the humour is modern jokes and situations transposed to the Discworld setting. The Moist books are also similar. Both focus more on telling a story than jokes. I've never read any of the Witches books, so I'm not sure how they fit in.
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Mar 22, 2009 00:32
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The best one off in the discworld series is definitely Small Gods. Vorbis is a particularly evil character in a way that very few villains in the series have managed. I really like Going Postal and think it would have been fine as a single book as well, although it seems like Pratchett wants to keep using Moist as a character. Are there any characters who he has stopped writing about? I've not kept as up to date and don't know when Rincewind last appeared as a major character, but i've had the impression he know longer wants to write about Rincewind, probably because theres not a great deal left for him to do.
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Mar 22, 2009 00:55
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Oogle Boogle posted:Are there any characters who he has stopped writing about? Susan hasn't been around for a while has she? Thief of Time in 2001?
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Mar 22, 2009 01:09
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Dead Alice posted:Susan hasn't been around for a while has she? Thief of Time in 2001? If you tell me ToT was 8 years ago I may actually have a heart attack.
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Mar 22, 2009 02:32
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Nilbop posted:If you tell me ToT was 8 years ago I may actually have a heart attack. Hope you've got your de-fib paddles ready... Wikipedia posted:HEARTATTASTIC
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Mar 22, 2009 02:56
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Oogle Boogle posted:Are there any characters who he has stopped writing about? He's pretty much stopped writing about all of his main characters except Vimes, Tiffany Aching and Moist. Honestly, I'd bet Rincewind and Susan are the hardest to write since there isn't much new for them to do. He's also been quoted as saying the Moist books were hard to write since they almost were taken over by Vimes. Ankh-Morpork is hard for him to write about without it becoming a Sam story. And I think Thief of Time will be my next pick up. I didn't know he'd actually written a conclusion to the Auditor plot.
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Mar 22, 2009 03:19
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Thief of Time is one of his best stories, in my opinion. All of the Wen the Eternally Surprised bits are awesome, the History Monks are one of my favorite concepts in the whole series. Plus Deja Fu.
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Mar 22, 2009 07:20
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Nevertheless, I'd go with Guards! Guards! for the kid. Or Mort.
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Mar 22, 2009 12:02
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:All of the Wen the Eternally Surprised bits are awesome. . . One of my favorite quotes from all of discworld is one of these, paraphrased: In the fifth scroll of Wen the Eternally Surprised, there is a story of when the apprentice Clodpool, in a rebellious mood, went up to Wen and spake thusly: "Wen, what is the difference between a humanistic, monastic system of belief in which enlightenment is achieved through a series of nonsensical questions and answers, and a bunch of mystic gibberish made up on the spur of the moment?" Wen thought for some time, and then said: "A fish!" And Clodpool went away, satisfied.
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Mar 22, 2009 18:22
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DontMockMySmock posted:One of my favorite quotes from all of discworld is one of these, paraphrased: You sure the answer wasn't "Five tons of flax!"?
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Mar 22, 2009 19:20
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It's definitely a fish, unless they changed it in the American edition for some reason.
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Mar 22, 2009 20:42
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:It's definitely a fish, unless they changed it in the American edition for some reason. Heh, no, I was just implying that the whole exchange sounds very Discordian.
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Mar 22, 2009 20:57
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Oh I am smart.
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Mar 22, 2009 20:58
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Oogle Boogle posted:The best one off in the discworld series is definitely Small Gods. Vorbis is a particularly evil character in a way that very few villains in the series have managed. I really like Going Postal and think it would have been fine as a single book as well, although it seems like Pratchett wants to keep using Moist as a character. Are there any characters who he has stopped writing about? I've not kept as up to date and don't know when Rincewind last appeared as a major character, but i've had the impression he know longer wants to write about Rincewind, probably because theres not a great deal left for him to do. I maintain that if any Pratchett novel is ever considered to be literature worthy of study, it will be Small Gods.
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Mar 23, 2009 02:59
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The only characters he has "officially retired" are the Witches, I believe. He said something to the effect of "nothing on the Disc could ever stop Esme Weatherwax, so there's no point in me trying to think up conflicts featuring her". Obviously they make cameos in the Tiffany Aching books, but as main characters they're Right Out. Which makes me sad, especially given his next main Disc novel is about the wizards playing football. I mean, really? Unless he has some curveball planned, that sounds like something he would have done far earlier when the series was a lot more silly. And yes, Small Gods is in fact pretty much the one Disc book everyone should read.
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Mar 23, 2009 04:45
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precision posted:The only characters he has "officially retired" are the Witches, I believe. He said something to the effect of "nothing on the Disc could ever stop Esme Weatherwax, so there's no point in me trying to think up conflicts featuring her". Obviously they make cameos in the Tiffany Aching books, but as main characters they're Right Out. Wait, so the next book is Horsefeathers set in Ankh-Morpork?
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Mar 23, 2009 19:16
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I remember reading that he had an idea for "Unseen Academicals", a book about the UU faculty starting a football league, but said he didn't want to write it because he actually didn't care for football. Has he gone back on that and decided to actually write it? My favourite unused title of his is still "Unclear Physics".
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Mar 23, 2009 23:05
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