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marshmallard
Apr 15, 2005

This post is about me.

Zurich posted:

Can someone take a look at my CV? I just redesigned it (again), still not entirely happy with the copywriting at least (but I'd prefer it to be human than formal)


Click here for the full 595x842 image.


I like the CMYK look of it, but I do feel like it's missing some stuff. Like what kind of job you're looking for, and what experience you've got. I know you've put a client list on there and you've got a portfolio, but it feels like your CV should at least mention that stuff.

What do you need the CV for? Are you applying for placements or something? It's a bit confusing because you're still at uni.

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Zurich
Jan 5, 2008

marshmallard posted:

I like the CMYK look of it, but I do feel like it's missing some stuff. Like what kind of job you're looking for, and what experience you've got. I know you've put a client list on there and you've got a portfolio, but it feels like your CV should at least mention that stuff.

What do you need the CV for? Are you applying for placements or something? It's a bit confusing because you're still at uni.
Placements, freelance work and part-time stuff at local studios and print shops yeah.

OK I'll try and piece together a better bit of experience - it just might be a bit odd because the majority of my work has been freelance, I've only worked in one studio.

I was thinking of adding in a 'mission statement' to the effect of 'I live and breath design and am eager to learn anything. I also make an awesome cup of tea.' (but not like that because it sounds desperate, but you know what I mean)

e: sorry if my last post sounded really defensive, didn't mean for it to be like that

marshmallard
Apr 15, 2005

This post is about me.

Zurich posted:

I was thinking of adding in a 'mission statement' to the effect of 'I live and breath design and am eager to learn anything. I also make an awesome cup of tea.' (but not like that because it sounds desperate, but you know what I mean)


I think that's a good idea, and I'd also add in a line about what you're looking for.

Don't forget to apply to ad agencies for experience, they could probably do with some Art Directors at the mo. I'll ask my agency as well if you like, but it'd be work experience rather than freelance because we're all recessioned-up :(

Zurich
Jan 5, 2008

marshmallard posted:

I think that's a good idea, and I'd also add in a line about what you're looking for.

Don't forget to apply to ad agencies for experience, they could probably do with some Art Directors at the mo. I'll ask my agency as well if you like, but it'd be work experience rather than freelance because we're all recessioned-up :(
Sweet, I'll get on that.

Heh there's a lot of places to apply to, just working my through :). That would be :krad: if you could do that (where are you based?) :)

marshmallard
Apr 15, 2005

This post is about me.

Zurich posted:

Sweet, I'll get on that.

Heh there's a lot of places to apply to, just working my through :). That would be :krad: if you could do that (where are you based?) :)

I've had a closer look at your website now, not sure if it's just me but the years go 2009, 2007, 2008 - why aren't they chronological? Also I'd take the Bubblegum Screw stuff out if I were you, or at least the CD cover. It's not nearly as strong as your other work.

Other than that, it looks great. I've passed your details on to one of our designers, hopefully we'll have a slot to fit you in for work experience at some point. We're in central London, is that OK for you?

Zurich
Jan 5, 2008

marshmallard posted:

I've had a closer look at your website now, not sure if it's just me but the years go 2009, 2007, 2008 - why aren't they chronological? Also I'd take the Bubblegum Screw stuff out if I were you, or at least the CD cover. It's not nearly as strong as your other work.

Other than that, it looks great. I've passed your details on to one of our designers, hopefully we'll have a slot to fit you in for work experience at some point. We're in central London, is that OK for you?
Sweet, taken it out. Thanks for the crit. I have absolutely no idea why it won't go in chronological order, some PHP weirdness that I'll have to have a look at :)

Central London is perfect, really appreciate this (even if nothing comes of it) :)

marshmallard
Apr 15, 2005

This post is about me.

Zurich posted:

Sweet, taken it out. Thanks for the crit. I have absolutely no idea why it won't go in chronological order, some PHP weirdness that I'll have to have a look at :)

Central London is perfect, really appreciate this (even if nothing comes of it) :)

I can't seem to PM you so I'll say it here - I sent your portfolio around the designers at work and they all agree you're really talented. One of the design heads has put you in a folder he keeps of people for work experience/junior jobs.

Annoyingly we only have enough computers for the designers we've got, so they're not willing to get you in at the mo. I did beg, and I said can't we get you in when someone's on holiday, but apparently when that happens they'll all be too busy to tutor you.

I know it sucks but at least they all think you're good, and you're on the list of work experience dudes if they ever decide they're not too busy!

KittenofDoom
Apr 15, 2003

Me posting IRL
I'm starting to wonder about my internship. Since I've been hired on as a web design intern, what should I reasonably be expected to do? I'm starting to wonder about the legitimacy of it all.

The workload doesn't bother me, nor does the long commute each way. It worries me a bit that my boss is thinking of working for a company just down the street instead of focusing on the entrepreneurial stuff he originally started with. He's assured the interns that we'd be coming with him, but I dislike unknowns.

There's also no guarantee of when I'd receive the commuter assistance he promised me, just that it'll get to me eventually. The commute, even though it's only twice a week, costs me nearly $50. His home-based company is steeped in debt and in the middle of a lawsuit for unpaid wages.

Also, if I'm being pushed to outright copy the site design of another company that does basically the exact same thing as this pro-bono thing the guy in charge has picked up, would I also be liable, even though I'm unpaid?

Zurich
Jan 5, 2008

marshmallard posted:

I can't seem to PM you so I'll say it here - I sent your portfolio around the designers at work and they all agree you're really talented. One of the design heads has put you in a folder he keeps of people for work experience/junior jobs.

Annoyingly we only have enough computers for the designers we've got, so they're not willing to get you in at the mo. I did beg, and I said can't we get you in when someone's on holiday, but apparently when that happens they'll all be too busy to tutor you.

I know it sucks but at least they all think you're good, and you're on the list of work experience dudes if they ever decide they're not too busy!
Oh slick, thanks :)

(I don't have PMs)

Like I said, thanks anyway :)

e: I have a laptop if that makes any difference

Zurich fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Mar 27, 2009

Sanguinary Novel
Jan 27, 2009
I'm currently enrolled in a community college, taking advantage of the wonderfully low tuition as well as time to test out a few majors. I've been in a couple of fundamental classes, and I'm ready to move on to a different school. The problem is, I have no idea where to go. I was originally planning on Kendall in Michigan (since I live in Michigan), but the rumors on the street have not been positive.

I'm working on an illustration associates, and would like to continue working on one. My drawing skills aren't killer, more high mediocre. I will be studying abroad next year, so I have a full year to prepare/practice more. The dream goal is to work for a comic book company and do inking/coloring or drawing. :3: Any help or suggestions would be appreciated more than you know.

Lyz
May 22, 2007

I AM A GIRL ON WOW GIVE ME ITAMS
Currently gearing up to move into a graphic design/web design position, and I have just one question.

Is it worth it to show a lot of traditional art works (charcoal, pencil, etc.)? Are employers impressed by seeing that you're good at the basics or do they only want to see the digital? What about photography?

marshmallard
Apr 15, 2005

This post is about me.

Zurich posted:



e: I have a laptop if that makes any difference

It's an issue with licenses I think, the software needing to be licensed to the company and whatnot. And there'd be no desk for you either.

It sucks massively but I badgered them about it as much as I can. I will try again when they're less busy though, see if I can twist someone's arm ;)

stoneb
Jan 8, 2009

by angerbotSD
I'm two or three semesters away from finishing up my BA in graphic design and considering pursuing a masters. Can anybody point me towards a good resource for researching graduate schools? Thanks

stoneb fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Apr 3, 2009

Redminty
Nov 9, 2005

stoneb posted:

I'm two or three semesters away from finishing up my BA in graphic design and considering pursuing a masters. Can anybody point me towards a good resource for researching graduate schools? Thanks


If it's anything like trying to get into a traditional/fine arts graduate program, you may want to look into doing some post-bachelors work first.

mcsuede
Dec 30, 2003

Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.
-Greta Garbo
Master's in GD is really only useful if you want to teach at a collegiate level, so consider very carefully. It's a lot of cash to pay out for something that won't really help your earning potential all that much in the field itself. If it's something you really want to do, great, go for it--but be sure to do all the financial math as related to tuition vs. earning potential.

dZPnJOm8QwUAseApNj
Apr 15, 2002

arf bark woof

stoneb posted:

I'm two or three semesters away from finishing up my BA in graphic design and considering pursuing a masters. Can anybody point me towards a good resource for researching graduate schools? Thanks

Honestly at this point I think the best way is to talk to your faculty and every professional artist in your network and ask them about their experiences. Be sure to have some of your recent work on hand, so they can feel out whether you would be a good fit at said MFA program.

Beyond that, hunt through the lists of designers you like. Find an artist who you like, go to their representative firm's website, look at the rest of the designers on that website, find other artists you like, search their cvs if possible for their education histories. If you're constantly running into the same MFA program on the cvs of the designer's you're digging on, then you might have found a good program for you.

Do graphic designers really need immediate graduate school though?

Veritonsils
Sep 14, 2007

For. Eh. Ver.

ExonerateMind posted:

I'd like to settle something about Full Sail being accredited.

They aren't. They now offer a Master's degree, so they can call themselves a "University" so it is now Full Sail University, formerly "Full Sail Real World Education". They are not accredited on the same level as a four year university and probably never will be, apparently the requirements for them to become fully accredited would make their accelerated program impossible. I know this because I spoke to an adviser about it and she begrudgingly admitted I was correct in my assumptions.

That being said, I am attending Full Sail for Computer Animation at the moment. I have no problems with the school really, but I work well with tight deadlines and being under pressure. I go out of my way to find out exactly how and when things need to be turned in and I spend an average of 4 hours each day after 8 hours of school doing more work. However, I am doing it because I enjoy it, not because I have to in order to meet deadlines. There are some classes that require you to work at home, but doesn't every school have homework assignments? It just seems like a lot when you are at school 40 hours a week.

Full Sail is pretty expensive, in fact their tuition just increased again for the second time since I've been attending. I often hear about people getting turned down for loans, but that probably has more to do with the economy. Regardless, those people owe about $25,000 with nothing really to show for it.

As far as Full Sail being a good school, it is if you can work your rear end off and still smile at the end of the day. Sometimes it gets taxing, but I am also getting a bachelor's in 21 months. Granted, it's not accredited like a normal 4 year, but I doubt someone would turn me down as long as I have A degree and a kick rear end demo reel/resume.

About the career placement, I don't know, I've heard bad things about how little work they do for you, but I am not relying on them to get me a job. I already know of several websites to find jobs, have seen several listings for my career focus and a website dedicated to freelance jobs with tons of listings. If you can do the work, and you have half a brain you should be able to find a job. It might not be the best job right out of school, but the better jobs require at least 2-3 years of experience anyway.

My advice for prospective Full Sail students: think about 40 hrs of school a week, and think how much time you need to spend dicking off each day. If you think you would get tired of that, don't go. You will fall behind and waste a lot of money. If you like working under pressure and want to be immersed in your chosen craft, it may be for you. Good luck.

I'm also attending Full Sail for a Computer Animation degree. 6 months in and it's definitely not easy, though I do get a chance to talk with a lot of people who work in the industry which is cool. And 40hrs of school a week is not a joke.

cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now

mcsuede posted:

Master's in GD is really only useful if you want to teach at a collegiate level, so consider very carefully. It's a lot of cash to pay out for something that won't really help your earning potential all that much in the field itself. If it's something you really want to do, great, go for it--but be sure to do all the financial math as related to tuition vs. earning potential.

I'm think of jumping from a BFA in graphic design to an MA in either advertising (portfolio school like Miami Ad) or motion graphics. Would I need to get a separate BFA if I decide to pursue motion graphics?

I do have internship experience in graphic design.

Zurich
Jan 5, 2008

marshmallard posted:

It's an issue with licenses I think, the software needing to be licensed to the company and whatnot. And there'd be no desk for you either.

It sucks massively but I badgered them about it as much as I can. I will try again when they're less busy though, see if I can twist someone's arm ;)
:) etc

stoneb posted:

I'm two or three semesters away from finishing up my BA in graphic design and considering pursuing a masters. Can anybody point me towards a good resource for researching graduate schools? Thanks
This is a while off for me but my 'look at these after you graduate' file includes:

Fabrica
WK12
SVA (MFA Designer As Author looks amazing)
Miami Ad School
Schule für Gestlatung Basel
F+F Schule für Kunst und Mediendesign Zürich
Fachhochschule Nordwestschweiz
West Herts College (Professional Diploma in Advertising - Watford is supposed to be one of the best advertising courses going)

I can't speak from personal experience but from 'friends'' experience (internet people) they seem pretty cool. Not going to one for the piece of paper at the end (unless you want to go into teaching), but I'm sure you'd get lots out of going to somewhere like Fabrica.

Fake James
Aug 18, 2005

Y'all got any more of that plastic?
Buglord
Just finished the rough draft of my portfolio. Any tips?

http://rapidshare.com/files/218153311/Portfolio_on_Black.pdf.html

artmurmur
Feb 27, 2009

Hello all. I'm just starting out doing some freelance web design, and I was wondering if anyone had a good link for what to charge for freelance jobs. I understand it won't be much, as I am jsut starting to get my feet wet. Any advice? Thanks.

RobertKerans
Aug 25, 2006

There is a heppy lend
Fur, fur aw-a-a-ay.
http://www.freelanceswitch.com/. Articles on there are excellent, http://www.freelanceswitch.com/general/101-essential-freelancing-resources/ is a good enough place to start.
And http://www.freelanceswitch.com/general/linkswitch-874-tips-kinda-sorta/.

http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2006/10/26/a_beginners_guid.php is good, the guy's British though so you'll have to adapt it slightly if you're not.

General Ripper
Jul 6, 2004
OUT OF KEITH'S?!?
Does anybody know anything about University of Waterloo's BFA program?

I'm finishing a one-year art fundamentals certificate program at Sheridan and have applied to UW for next year. I haven't heard back yet, but in the mean time I can't find much information about it other than the basic blurb on their site.

pancaek
Feb 6, 2004

sup fellaz
Question about online resumés/CV's-

I'd like to include my CV on my website but don't want to list my references' phone numbers or other contact information. It's more for the sake of their privacy.

Is it stupid to put 'references available upon request' instead of listing that information?

How about in the situation of handing out my paper resumé to potential employers? Will someone just toss my resumé aside if they don't see the reference contact info immediately?

Slashie
Mar 24, 2007

by Fistgrrl

trufflepig posted:

Question about online resumés/CV's-

I'd like to include my CV on my website but don't want to list my references' phone numbers or other contact information. It's more for the sake of their privacy.

Is it stupid to put 'references available upon request' instead of listing that information?

How about in the situation of handing out my paper resumé to potential employers? Will someone just toss my resumé aside if they don't see the reference contact info immediately?

Saying "references available upon request" is completely normal and professional. Leave it at that for your website, and go into interviews with your CV and a separate reference sheet in case they ask.

KittenofDoom
Apr 15, 2003

Me posting IRL
I asked once before, but I'm starting to need to know. What should rightfully be expected of a web design intern? The startup is entirely staffed by unpaid interns. No one I know has been compensated for their travel costs, they just have the promise that they will be eventually.

The guy in charge of us isn't even running his own company any more. He wasn't making any money from any of his startups so he took a job in another city during the week. We still come in during our assigned hours, but we now work from to-do lists and don't receive any instruction during the day.

I'm also concerned that my duties have gone from creating designs for his existing ideas to possibly him selling my designs and illustrations directly, which is not something I'm willing to have happen. As it is, I'm not learning anything new or making any contacts, and the possibility for a job at the end of the internship is pretty much nil.

I'm already searching for another internship or job at the moment, but would it help or hurt me to list this current one on my resume?

pancaek
Feb 6, 2004

sup fellaz

KittenofDoom posted:

:words:

edit: I take back what I wrote five seconds ago. Even if you could get a good word from your boss, I still don't see any reasonable excuse for staying there. I wouldn't want to be referred by someone who is being sued or has gotten into legal trouble for lovely business practices.

Zurich
Jan 5, 2008

KittenofDoom posted:

I asked once before, but I'm starting to need to know. What should rightfully be expected of a web design intern? The startup is entirely staffed by unpaid interns. No one I know has been compensated for their travel costs, they just have the promise that they will be eventually.

The guy in charge of us isn't even running his own company any more. He wasn't making any money from any of his startups so he took a job in another city during the week. We still come in during our assigned hours, but we now work from to-do lists and don't receive any instruction during the day.

I'm also concerned that my duties have gone from creating designs for his existing ideas to possibly him selling my designs and illustrations directly, which is not something I'm willing to have happen. As it is, I'm not learning anything new or making any contacts, and the possibility for a job at the end of the internship is pretty much nil.

I'm already searching for another internship or job at the moment, but would it help or hurt me to list this current one on my resume?
Why are you even there? The idea of unpaid internships (though I've always been paid at least travel/lunch costs) is to get experience at a functional studio...

KittenofDoom
Apr 15, 2003

Me posting IRL

Zurich posted:

Why are you even there? The idea of unpaid internships (though I've always been paid at least travel/lunch costs) is to get experience at a functional studio...
The three reasons I originally used to justify it were to gain real-world experience, build up my portfolio, and to make contacts in the field. As it is I am, at best, only making some things to pad my portfolio. I'll finish up what I promised him and look for something else.

cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now

KittenofDoom posted:

The three reasons I originally used to justify it were to gain real-world experience, build up my portfolio, and to make contacts in the field. As it is I am, at best, only making some things to pad my portfolio. I'll finish up what I promised him and look for something else.

"There is a lot of stuff to be learned from bad jobs: that is how to avoid doing them in the future"-Sagmeister.

Take your portfolio and run.

Diamond Back
Jul 8, 2005

You dont always have to fuck her hard....
This might be the wrong place to ask, but it seems like a decent amount of 3d people post here so Ill give it a shot.

I am interested in Augmented Reality and have been learning several different AR programs. I am also volunteering with a AR symposium that will be coming to town in October. Does any one know any collages that have mixed or augmented reality programs? It would be really nice to find a university or college that is involved with AR research.

kundalini rinsing
Jun 3, 2007

*edit: got some good advice in another thread about this, was my resume/cover letter, revising*

kundalini rinsing fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Apr 29, 2009

Edmond Dantes
Sep 12, 2007

Reactor: Online
Sensors: Online
Weapons: Online

ALL SYSTEMS NOMINAL
I had written my life's story, so I decided to spare you all the drama and jump straight to some questions.

I'm currently studying "3D Animation" here in Argentina, but the career prospects with 3d here pretty much suck, and the places they teach it in aren't quite up to scratch yet. They are passable, just not really good.

So, I'm looking for a way to go study somewhere else (abroad), and I would like to know if someone has suggestions as to where I should start looking. I need to sort out a whole lot of things regarding accommodation, money, visas and stuff, but all of that is actually secondary to the institution I will be attending.

If any of you guys could give me some "look into this or that place" recommendations so I can kickstart this and start sending emails and calling places.

I know I haven't specified any countries, but this is very green yet and I want to keep my options open until I make a decision.

Thanks a bunch.

General Ripper
Jul 6, 2004
OUT OF KEITH'S?!?

Edmond Dantes posted:

I had written my life's story, so I decided to spare you all the drama and jump straight to some questions.

I'm currently studying "3D Animation" here in Argentina, but the career prospects with 3d here pretty much suck, and the places they teach it in aren't quite up to scratch yet. They are passable, just not really good.

So, I'm looking for a way to go study somewhere else (abroad), and I would like to know if someone has suggestions as to where I should start looking. I need to sort out a whole lot of things regarding accommodation, money, visas and stuff, but all of that is actually secondary to the institution I will be attending.

If any of you guys could give me some "look into this or that place" recommendations so I can kickstart this and start sending emails and calling places.

I know I haven't specified any countries, but this is very green yet and I want to keep my options open until I make a decision.

Thanks a bunch.

Sheridan College in Ontario, Canada might be worth looking into for you. They have traditional and 3D animation, though the 3D program is post graduate. They're pretty renowned around here and close to the industries in both the US and Canada.

Pantothenate
Nov 26, 2005

This is an art gallery, my friend--and this is art.
Alright, so the publishing industry started firing everybody, and all the major newspapers are swirling down the tubes. I'm not getting into publishing--my only possible option is to pick up photography and get into one of the few small-town papers that are actually hiring new people.

So my original plans of being an obsessive-compulsive trainwreck of a publishing toady are crashing to the ground.

I'm working at the local hospital to make ends-meet, but, if given the choice, I'd rather not spend the rest of my life sopping up bits of innards that have, through one way or another, gotten out of their respective owners. I have, however, noticed that a lot of the hospital's self-marketing is desperately lacking a 'word guy'--two of their recent slogans have been "Shockingly Excellent" ('Shocking' means 'invokes fear or disgust'), and "Fresh as a Daisy!", which, unless I'm mistaken, was lifted from an old feminine hygiene commercial. So, yeah--I think they need a dude like me. On top of all that, they have newsletters, pamphlets, posters, and so fort that, I would assume, I'm at least somewhat qualified in designing, editing, and producing, because I worked for a year and a half for a small press.

The thing is, they never post corporate communications positions internally. I have an email address, but I have no idea how to approach them--or the communications departments of any other company, for that matter. So how the crap do I break in there? Should I just email them telling them my current station and qualifications, and ask if there's room for either an intern or a part-time droog to help them out with whatever needs to be done? Are there other channels I should be following? Do companies usually hire through some sort of inaccessible agency?

Slashie
Mar 24, 2007

by Fistgrrl

Pantothenate posted:

The thing is, they never post corporate communications positions internally. I have an email address, but I have no idea how to approach them--or the communications departments of any other company, for that matter. So how the crap do I break in there? Should I just email them telling them my current station and qualifications, and ask if there's room for either an intern or a part-time droog to help them out with whatever needs to be done? Are there other channels I should be following? Do companies usually hire through some sort of inaccessible agency?

Is it possible to go to the communications department and talk to someone personally? A smiling face is more memorable than an email, even if you don't get past the receptionist. If you can, go down there, explain what you're looking for, and leave a resume/cover letter and maybe a couple of clippings. If you don't hear from anybody for a week, email them to follow up.

But on the "inaccessible agency" note, have you considered joining a professional network for writers, like MediaBistro or something? They're probably all flooded with unemployed journalists right now, but if someone was going to publicly post a decent corporate communications job in your area that's probably where they'd do it.

Pantothenate posted:


I'm working at the local hospital to make ends-meet, but, if given the choice, I'd rather not spend the rest of my life sopping up bits of innards that have, through one way or another, gotten out of their respective owners.
I'd really hate to see someone with such a gift for evocative imagery give up on writing entirely, so keep at it.

Pantothenate
Nov 26, 2005

This is an art gallery, my friend--and this is art.

Slashie posted:

Is it possible to go to the communications department and talk to someone personally? A smiling face is more memorable than an email, even if you don't get past the receptionist. If you can, go down there, explain what you're looking for, and leave a resume/cover letter and maybe a couple of clippings. If you don't hear from anybody for a week, email them to follow up.

Yeah, I suppose this might be my best course of action. I'm far less eloquent when speaking than when writing, but you're absolutely right--an email is far easier to ignore than some dude being all up-in-your-grill.

quote:

I'd really hate to see someone with such a gift for evocative imagery give up on writing entirely, so keep at it.

Haha, don't worry about that--I'm going to keep writing in my spare time, but I'm really not holding my breath on making a living out of it. If I do make some money out of cranking out my garbage, well that's just peachy, but living on the streets in pursuit of a dream that only hits one in a million is just silly.

Thanks tons for the advice.

Chernabog
Apr 16, 2007



Edmond Dantes posted:


I'm currently going to Digipen and the program is pretty good, and getting better every year with student feedback.
It is a small place, so you might miss the "college experience" if that something that you are looking into. It is also a bit more centered towards video games than other places so I don't know if that's something you might like or not.

Other stuff to consider is that if you want to go to the U.S. I would start looking into taking the SAT or ACT, the TOEFL and making a portfolio, as most places will require something like that.

RiceTaco
Jul 15, 2003

by Ozma
Anyone ever deal with Creative Circle? They always post a lot on craigslist, monster, careerbuilder, etc. in major cities. Sounds like a typical job placement agency...

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

marshmallard
Apr 15, 2005

This post is about me.

RiceTaco posted:

Anyone ever deal with Creative Circle? They always post a lot on craigslist, monster, careerbuilder, etc. in major cities. Sounds like a typical job placement agency...

I don't know what country you're in, but in England, Creative Circle is an advertising-related company that runs some well-respected awards, produces an annual and does some membership-related stuff that I don't understand even though I'm a member.

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