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jovial_cynic posted:I used to spend a lot of time running into my local HF, but I've had a few things either fail or be clearly inferior to another similar product.... I was going to let him live his dream for a bit since he didn't have regular access, but yeah, i've had similar experiences on several items, but cutting wheels, brushes, wire... great place for those. I got a welding helmet from them that I'm rather fond of and works great. I also got a set of hammers that the handles broke on the first use. I think they can be a little bit hit-or-miss, but for stuff you don't care all that much about, HF is great.
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May 21, 2009 06:52
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I just wish that I had a place for occasional use tools. Like belt grinders and stuff like that. Princess Auto carries cheap versions of things I use all the time, some good, some bad. Not so much the stuff I would like to have so I can use it once in a while.
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May 21, 2009 15:12
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Zquargon posted:I was going to let him live his dream for a bit since he didn't have regular access, but yeah, i've had similar experiences on several items, but cutting wheels, brushes, wire... great place for those. I got a welding helmet from them that I'm rather fond of and works great. I also got a set of hammers that the handles broke on the first use. I think they can be a little bit hit-or-miss, but for stuff you don't care all that much about, HF is great. Yea their auto darkening helmet can be found cheap as hell and works great.
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May 21, 2009 15:29
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Howdy metalheads!  I'm about to work with some brass for the first time (planning a sculpture of a dragonfly) and I understand that it needs to be annealed to make it easily workable, but I'm not quite sure how to proceed with that. I have a torch that I can heat it with, but how hot am I going to need to get it (or what color should I get the metal to with the heat)? Should I quench it afterwards, or let it sit in sand and cool slowly? This is basic naval brass sheeting that you can get at any hobby store. From what I can tell I don't believe it has any coatings on it that will release noxious crap when I heat it up, but I'll wear a respirator just in case.
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May 21, 2009 15:57
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Powdered Toast Man posted:Howdy metalheads! Aw man, I made some stuff with brass a few years ago, but now I can't remember any of the specifics. The only thing I can say about a torch is that you'll probably want to take some kind of precaution to make sure that you're heating it evenly, as opposed to just melting a hole in it. I seem to recall heating it until it turned a nice rose color, but don't take my word for it. Question - do any of you guys do blacksmithing in a suburb? I've been wanting to put together a little forge of my own in my backyard (so far I've only done work at a nearby craft school), but aside from being broke I'm also always concerned that I'll irritate my neighbors if I'm hammering and such.
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May 21, 2009 17:17
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Third Murderer posted:Question - do any of you guys do blacksmithing in a suburb? I've been wanting to put together a little forge of my own in my backyard (so far I've only done work at a nearby craft school), but aside from being broke I'm also always concerned that I'll irritate my neighbors if I'm hammering and such. I have heard that attaching a large, strong magnet to an out of the way spot on your anvil will greatly reduce the sharp "pinging" noises. Your mileage may vary, depending on your anvil.
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May 21, 2009 18:05
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Magnets work. Thick rubber matting under the anvil's feet work. Sinking the anvil into a bucket of sand on top of your workstand also works. Being in a garage would help, if there's any insulation. Try to be courteous, don't do it after 10 pm, and tell your neighbours, they'll probably think it's neat rather than a nuisance.
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May 21, 2009 20:42
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Third Murderer posted:Question - do any of you guys do blacksmithing in a suburb? I've been wanting to put together a little forge of my own in my backyard (so far I've only done work at a nearby craft school), but aside from being broke I'm also always concerned that I'll irritate my neighbors if I'm hammering and such. I have my forge set up in a residential area right next to a shopping mall. I just let my neighbors know, told them to tell me if I am being too irritating, and that's been all that we've talked about it. I wrapped a chain around the base of my anvil and that sucks out most of the ringing. It doesn't ring anywhere near as loud if you're working hot metal anyways, so if you take at least one other precaution against lots of noise, you should be ok.
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May 21, 2009 23:37
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Powdered Toast Man posted:Howdy metalheads! I repair musical instruments for a living (specifically brass ones) and I have annealed a few times. Work the torch back and forth over a square in or so and watch it rainbow and then glow. you want to move to the next area you want to anneal when it starts to glow. It might turn black from crud that is on the brass or carbon particles from your torch, but that can be cleaned off with chemicals. The key to annealing is even heat and making sure you get it all. Also, don't cool the brass. Put it in some sand or just let it sit until it gets back to room temperature. If you try to cool it with water or oil you will make it brittle. You shouldn't have to anneal at first though, because the brass sheet shouldn't be work hardened yet.
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May 22, 2009 00:20
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This thread should be a good place to ask. Where can I find some decent drill bits that will stay sharp and not break if I look at them funny? I broke 6 Craftsman drill bits trying to extract out three rusty 40-year old screws today, including 2 that came with the drat extractors. I'll spend a hundred or two if need be.
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May 22, 2009 04:57
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kid sinister posted:This thread should be a good place to ask. Where can I find some decent drill bits that will stay sharp and not break if I look at them funny? I broke 6 Craftsman drill bits trying to extract out three rusty 40-year old screws today, including 2 that came with the drat extractors. I'll spend a hundred or two if need be. What material were the drill bits made out of? This is rather likely a you thing rather than a drill bit thing. Once the drill bit chips or breaks inside the bolt, that's it, you aren't getting it out except with a carbide drill and that's only after removing as much of the HSS as you can with a center punch and hammer or grinding it out if you can and even then you're likely to break it. If you are able to grind it all out and the surface is even enough to start drilling again you can try using a colbalt bit with plenty of cutting fluid (I use motor oil cause I always have some) The Rigid cobalt set are decent for the price. Better than that are cobalt bits from companies like Clevland Twist Drill, precision twist drill, SGS etc. Better than that are those same brand names but coated in TiN. If you want a harder material you can step up to carbide but if you're not using a steady drilling platform like a lathe or a mill you're likely to chip the carbide. Its not "tough" at all. Its just hard as gently caress and will drill anything just about. Edit: added some suggestions. AnomalousBoners fucked around with this message at 05:22 on May 22, 2009 |
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May 22, 2009 05:16
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I'm sure there are some good online places to buy drill bits. However, I would start by looking for some more industrial type tool stores that cater mostly to professionals. Tell them you are looking for some good quality bits. I don't really have any brands off the top of my head to recommend. I inherited many drill bits from my grandfather. The last set I purchased was about 8 years ago. I bought them at an industrial tool store, and they have worked veryt well, with some sharpening here and there. I can tell you however if you want a drill index, and you do want one, that you want to buy a Huot. Huot makes a fantastic metal index that takes a fairly good beating. http://store.huot-store.com/tool-storage/category/dtri-dus.html AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 05:24 on May 22, 2009 |
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May 22, 2009 05:22
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RealKyleH posted:What material were the drill bits made out of? Four were titanium-coated. Those 4 came from this set. The other two were included with the extractors, they looked to be just coated in black oxide. It was not a "me thing", I can guarantee you that. I didn't have to remove the broken bits, they always flew out of the hole. Still, I always cleaned the hole out too to make sure I got it all. edit: the ones from that set that didn't break dulled immediately upon use, even when I used fluid. What the hell did they put in steel 40 years ago? kid sinister fucked around with this message at 06:07 on May 22, 2009 |
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May 22, 2009 06:02
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What is the screw in? If its something that has super high heat cycles carbide layers can form or could be there already. Like the screw isnt that hard overall (although grade 8 bolts can be 40 rockwell c at the core) but sheets of carbide form and are breakin your bits and bank. Either way ebay has the best prices on made in USA carbide drill bits. Avoid the Chinese and Indian ones as their toughness sucks especially for carbide. I'd just get the sizes you need. If you make a pilot you can usually find oddball tiny sizes for nothing. AnomalousBoners fucked around with this message at 06:20 on May 22, 2009 |
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May 22, 2009 06:17
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RealKyleH posted:What is the screw in? If its something that has super high heat cycles carbide layers can form or could be there already. Like the screw isnt that hard but the One screw was a steel lag screw in a concrete lag shield anchor. Whatever those anchors were made of, it wasn't magnetic. The other two screws were steel set screws in a forged base for a patio railing post, again not magnetic. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 06:31 on May 22, 2009 |
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May 22, 2009 06:22
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Don't think there is a machining thread, so I hope this is not the wrong place to ask... I want to get into some machining, and so far that looks to be getting a lathe and a drill press (as I already have a band saw and welding gear). What should I avoid when looking for one? Also, am I correct in assuming that a lathe advertised as a woodworking lathe would be a bad idea to buy? And if so, why exactly? Is it simply motor power or is it more of a case of pulleys and belts vs actual gears for the gearing? (If you take out the adjustable tooling for the metal lathe and the tool rest for woodworking) Ideally, I want one lathe, possibly one machine, for all my needs. Would a one of those multi-purpose machines that can be a drill press/lathe/milling machine be a bad idea? (Example 1 and 2) Fire Storm fucked around with this message at 09:29 on May 22, 2009 |
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May 22, 2009 09:26
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There are definitely pro's and cons for a multipurpose machine. A milling machine is patently also a drill press. But really to build many things you'll want both. I myself would prefer two machines. Simply because one machine blocks your view of the work and is more complicated to fix. Not to mention having to take the tool post off to work it as a milling machine. Your second pick for a multi-purpose would be better for steel and large work since it runs slower while the first would be better for small things and soft mat'l. As far as wood lathes vs metal lathes go (keep in mind I have never worked on a wood lathe and this may all be bullshit) the two are completely different machines, and from my view of things, a wood lathe is not a metal lathe, but a metal lathe can be a wood lathe. So yes, unless you're wanting to buy a specifically woodworking lathe you don't want to buy one advertised as such, and with metal working, be prepared to spend at least h as much on tooling, drills, end mills, tool holders, different tooling like boring bars reamers etc etc as you do on the machine.
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May 22, 2009 10:08
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Thanks for the advice, guys! Slung Blade, while I remember. You bought that one prebuilt gas forge a few months back - how's it working for you? Have you had more time to play with it now that the weather's better? I've been considering buying the same one.
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May 22, 2009 11:51
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Third Murderer posted:Thanks for the advice, guys! Yeah I really like mine. I've made plenty of small things with it now and it's very good. I haven't even emptied one 40 pound tank yet. If I were to buy another one though, I would go with the wide mouthed oval-shaped unit. I think it's the cayenne model. The one I have is just a little too narrow for some of the work I've tried to do with it. The build quality is great, and the burners are very easy to use. Mine's a two burner, but usually that's too much heat for small items. So, I often remove the rear burner and cover the hole in the roof with a bit of plate to keep the heat in. One burner is plenty strong enough for small projects (like roses). You can do large things with it too, like the primary bends on the speedbag support mount were all done in the gas forge. The only problem with that is, you only get one shot at it. Once you take it out and bend it 90 degrees it won't fit in the chamber again, so be careful. And you should always have an alternate source of heat anyway (like a torch or a backup charcoal forge  ).
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May 22, 2009 16:51
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Fire Storm posted:Also, am I correct in assuming that a lathe advertised as a woodworking lathe would be a bad idea to buy? And if so, why exactly? Is it simply motor power or is it more of a case of pulleys and belts vs actual gears for the gearing? (If you take out the adjustable tooling for the metal lathe and the tool rest for woodworking) Rigidity is important in a machine. For this reason and more (including end cost) a woodworking machine is a poor choice. I also would not get a multipurpose machine.
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May 22, 2009 17:15
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A wood lathe will not cut it as a metal lathe. The tooling that other have said, is one issue. But the biggest problems is the bearings on a wood lathe are not designed for the types of sideways thrusts, while maintaining accuracy to .001" or better. A metal lathe will function as a wood lathe and you can adjust the RPM's for wood. However I don't know about you but if I had a nice metal lathe I wouldn't want sawdust in it. Also, don't buy a Harbor Freight lathe unless it's the big $2k one. The smaller ones don't have a very rigid chassis, and have under powered motors. Biggest downside to that is you really can't turn steel on them, or if you do it's amazingly slow. You're better off looking for a good quality used lathe if you ask me. Start with craiglist. While I'm on the subject of HF, I have to say good things about some of their stuff. I bought a number of tools to bring into work to make my life easier, some of which came from HF. Keep in mind by work I mean working on rail cars, so we are talking daily industrial use. (With the exception of the pipe wrenches I don't abuse my tools on the job) 16 piece SAE combination wrench set 14 piece deep impact socket set MIG welding pliers 3 adjustable wrenches of different sizes from regular to huge 3 pipe wrenches of different sizes (and yes I use pipes to extend handle leverage on a regular basis) These items have worked out nicely with regards to quality. There are many other things in that store however I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, TLDR, buy a woodworking lathe if you want to turn wood, buy a metal lathe if you want to turn metal. Don't give Horrible Freight your business for lathes and milling machines.
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May 22, 2009 22:31
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Just to throw my 2 cents in. If your doing hobby stuff on the lathe, like making flashlights, turning bushings, or anything under 1 1/2" dial in delrin or alum. The harbor freight 7x10 is ok to learn on. It's what got me into machining many years ago. I did turn a 2 3/4 dia 304 SS rotor on it one time took about 5 hours hahah. I hate seeing people buy a 2k lathe and not knowing how to use it, that is downright dangerous. If going craiglist route altas is cheap and good or a south bend or hardinge is a little expensive but much better quality. Hardinge is better for small dia stuff. Buy separate machines because going cnc will keep getting cheaper and cheaper. If you get serious you will most likely want to cnc the mill. Plus its a pain to re-zero your vise on a 3 in 1 machine if you go from a lathe to mill operation. taigtools.com or sherline.com are good places to start too. I personally own 3 metal lathes, one taig cnc mill, and one cnc router. I have a weird love for metal lathes.
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May 24, 2009 05:21
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I'd recommend a hardinge with a digital readout if you want accuracy. I held and repeated +.0002 -.000 tolerances on one of those cutting stainless. they're drat good and if you put a chuck on that thing (the six jaw chuck is what I used) you can get up to about 3 in diameter and still work.
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May 24, 2009 20:18
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Here is a link to a thread on a trumpet site about the trumpet that I rebuilt today. http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f131/what-i-did-my-sunday-afternoon-46564.html#post432898 I will be posting a very detailed report about the trombone I am doing next. It was run over by a car!
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May 24, 2009 21:35
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Metal casting question here. Has anyone ever used the ceramic fiber blanket stuff as a refractory? I was looking into making a fairly small gas powered furnace for melting aluminum, and maybe some brass, and it seems like I could get a nice section of the fiber blanket for substantialy less than something like Kast-o-lite. Any particluar reason this would be a bad idea?
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May 27, 2009 00:33
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The Adama posted:Metal casting question here. Has anyone ever used the ceramic fiber blanket stuff as a refractory? I was looking into making a fairly small gas powered furnace for melting aluminum, and maybe some brass, and it seems like I could get a nice section of the fiber blanket for substantialy less than something like Kast-o-lite. Any particluar reason this would be a bad idea? The Ceramic Fiber Blanket (aka Kaowool, Inswool) makes a fantastic insulator and is highly recommended in a 2 part refractory system in order to improve efficiency and fuel consumption. However it will not take the direct heat you will be dealing with for any length of time. The typical max temp of CFB is 2300F. The flame temp of both propane and natural gas are above 3200F. That will damage the blanket. When exposed to too much heat, the ceramic fibers shrivel up leaving the blanket a fraction of it's original size. To fix that problem, a thin hotface in the form a dense non-insulating castable refractory or something like a paint/spray on ceramic coating is used. You have may have heard of ITC-100, a paint on ceramic coating that is popular. Many blacksmiths make forges with CFB painted in ITC-100 and then use a kiln shelf as a floor. This works well for a forge, however it still won't take the heat needed for brass or iron. While aluminum temps would be OK, the biggest issue is the surface of CFB painted with ITC-100 isn't durable and would get damaged easily by manipulating the crucible in and out of the furnace. So you still come back to the issue of needing a dense castable refractory. Something like Versaflow 60 Plus (3200F) or Mizzou (3000F) would be good choices. (Ellis custom knife works sells small amounts of Mizzou BTW.) Or, if you can track down some fireclay or Kaolin, you could make your own hotface material out of a 1:2 ratio of clay:silica sand. I wouldn't try to make a clay/sand hotface on a larger furnace because of clay shrinkage issues. If you want to further improve efficiency, you can paint ITC-100 on your hotface as it is has a high IR reflectivity.
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May 27, 2009 01:21
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Wow. Thank you so much. This is awesome information, and I feel about 10 times more confident that I can make this work within the budget I set for myself. Also, thanks for pointing me towards Ellis. Not only is it nice not to have to buy a 55lb bag of refractory, but I think I'm going to start saving my pennies for one of those forges!
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May 27, 2009 04:29
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Hey those little knife forges look pretty nice. Good price too.
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May 27, 2009 05:45
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I'm in the process of building my own coal forge, based on old plans from Popular Mechanics. Like, really old. Most of it is self-explanatory, but the plans I've seen suggest using fire clay on top of the steel vessel for the fire itself. I assume that this is something available in powdered form to which you add water, and then slap it on. However, I haven't been able to find anything but precast fire bricks so far. Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm also finding one particular aspect of the forge design confusing, but this may be due to my lack of experience and understanding of how the fire works in a coal forge: the forced air intake will be under the fire in this forge, with a collector for clinkers and a grate of some sort at the opening. What, though, could you make this grate out of that would not be melted by the heat of the forge? Or, does it not get that hot in that area? I've got most of the stuff together, and I'll be taking pictures of it soon for everyone's benefit. 
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May 27, 2009 13:39
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Cast iron or fairly thick steel works well for the air grate / clinker breaker in a coal forge. Heat travels up, and while the gate does get hot, it's not hot enough to deform it. Usually, anyway. Can you post some scans or pictures of the plans you're using? I always like to see stuff like that.
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May 27, 2009 15:46
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Slung Blade posted:Cast iron or fairly thick steel works well for the air grate / clinker breaker in a coal forge. Heat travels up, and while the gate does get hot, it's not hot enough to deform it. Usually, anyway. Here is one of the plans I'm looking at: http://media.popularmechanics.com/documents/pm-forge-1941.pdf There are some differences in my forge, however. I'm not going to use a sink, although I must admit that's a pretty cool idea. I also plan to use a rheostat to control my blower. I will probably steal the 'hood' plan off this layout. I have a couple of books which contain good forge information, including pictures or diagrams of forges made by the authors. They're at home right now so I'll have to look at them later to see what the titles are. One of them is fairly old and describes the author's experience traveling to Indonesia and then meeting and working with Javanese smiths there. His improvisation is awesome.
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May 27, 2009 20:21
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The one where he had a little kid pumping two sticks with feather pistons within 2 bamboo tubes as a bellows? That's in the Complete Modern Blacksmith: http://books.google.ca/books?id=em2...esnum=4#PPP1,M1 A very cool book. Lots of great ideas in it.
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May 27, 2009 23:06
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I was at an antique show this weekend and one vendor was selling bellows that were about 8 feet long and 5 feet wide. He was asking about $2000 for it. I am sure you could have blown the clothes off someone with it...it was huge
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May 28, 2009 00:03
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The Adama posted:Wow. Thank you so much. This is awesome information, and I feel about 10 times more confident that I can make this work within the budget I set for myself. Also, thanks for pointing me towards Ellis. Not only is it nice not to have to buy a 55lb bag of refractory, but I think I'm going to start saving my pennies for one of those forges! Good luck on your project. I'm happy to answer any questions, but if you are going to go through the time and expense of building a furnace, I highly recommend spending a week or two reading the backyard metal casting website and especially the forums there. There is volumes of information there, that I can't post here. If you successfully build yourself a crucible furnace, you may as well build yourself a forge. It uses all the same skills and techniques, and materials for that matter. That is unless you've reached the point of having more money then time, in which case whip out the plastic.* Brekelefuw posted:I was at an antique show this weekend and one vendor was selling bellows that were about 8 feet long and 5 feet wide. He was asking about $2000 for it. I am sure you could have blown the clothes off someone with it...it was huge One day I'd like to do a foundry pour ancient school with traditional fuels (charcoal made from wood I assume) and 2 bellows being operated by 2 slaves (aka friends). * Or, if you're like me (not that I have more money then time), you can type your CC #, exp date, and CCV code from memory. AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 00:52 on May 28, 2009 |
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May 28, 2009 00:49
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Brekelefuw posted:I was at an antique show this weekend and one vendor was selling bellows that were about 8 feet long and 5 feet wide. He was asking about $2000 for it. I am sure you could have blown the clothes off someone with it...it was huge The "great" bellows. Very effective at producing a nice even heat, but yeah, loving massive.  Pretty easy to make, as long as you have the wood and the leather, and a little felt for valves. Though why anyone would use that instead of a hand cranked blower that can deliver air almost as smoothly in a 2x2x1 foot box is beyond me.
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May 28, 2009 01:50
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Slung Blade posted:The one where he had a little kid pumping two sticks with feather pistons within 2 bamboo tubes as a bellows? Yep, that's the one. I have a 1974 edition that I'm borrowing from my dad.  I love that bellows diagram. I had always wondered exactly how the airflow worked to prevent sucking air back in from the fire. No one knows about fire clay, eh? 
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May 28, 2009 13:25
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Powdered Toast Man posted:No one knows about fire clay, eh? It's not exactly easy to find info on that, but I did find some on a knife making page a long time ago. Basically they just took normal clay earth and added a bunch of wood ash to it, and a little sand. They let it dry for a long time, and then had a few little fires in it to make sure it was dry before they did a full heat forge fire. I'll try to find the link. E: Oh hey that was quick: http://64.176.180.203/washtubforge.htm quote:An excellent adobe for use as filler is made from 1/2 earthen clay and 1/2 sand with a couple hand fulls of wood ashes added in.
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May 28, 2009 15:40
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So far, the information that I've found describes fire clay as containing higher concentrations of alumina and silica. This apparently occurs naturally in some areas, but you would need to have some means of determining the content of the clay. Failing that, I'm starting to think about stacking configurations of fire bricks. I looked at those gas forges mentioned previously in the thread, and I think the stuff I want is basically what they use to line the inside of them, but I somehow doubt that they would be forthcoming on their source.
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May 28, 2009 16:24
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Powdered Toast Man posted:No one knows about fire clay, eh? Speaking of Kaolin EPK, it might serve your purpose well as it has a higher alumina content then fireclay.
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May 28, 2009 23:14
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Further research seems to indicate that working with fire clay to create a forge lining would be a pain in the rear end, so I'm leaning more towards stacking of fire bricks.
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May 29, 2009 18:06
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