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happyelf posted:It doesn't work that way for a normal lich. You have to trash them, and the phylactery. If you trash it without them, their soul just goes back to their body. If you trash them without it, they re-form near it IIRC a day or so afterwards. On the other hand, "we have your phylactery, now all we need to do is find a way to destroy you" is quite a threat. I'm pretty sure that if the phylactery were delivered to the remaining paladins they could figure out a way to easily destroy it on command.
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May 30, 2009 18:29
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So if you're a fighter/paladin with two healing potions worth of hp, and you've managed to flank an epic-level sorceror/lich who is choking your ally, what do you do? I'm guessing he'll opt for a smite evil, then try and grab the phylactery and sprint for the roof so he can throw it into the rift.
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May 30, 2009 18:43
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ZorbaTHut posted:I remember a story about a dungeon where the first level was chock-full of . . . level one kobolds. http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/ I love that story.
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May 30, 2009 20:49
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So now that O-Chul knows he can't destroy the phylactary with physical attacks, I wonder if he can snag it and make his way to the rift? Even if tossing it in with the Snarl doesn't destroy it, it would absolutely ensure the destruction of Xykon, since if he regenerates inside the Snarl he'd be utterly undone, soul and all.
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May 31, 2009 00:33
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Jesus, you just can't stop O-Chul. What is Rich planning to do with him though? It's already been established that he can't break the phylactery, and unless he starts going hand-to-hand with Xykon and it goes amazingly well, this has to be the set-up for his death. Xykon's already promoted him to the top tier of prisoners, after this he just can't be worth the hassle of keeping around. Wait, why is he keeping O-Chul alive at this point? Doesn't he already know where the gate is?
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May 31, 2009 00:55
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Nilbop posted:Jesus, you just can't stop O-Chul. Grapple, maybe? Although Xykon has Still Spell, so that won't work. It might buy V enough time to get away, though, which might be O-Chul's plan. quote:Wait, why is he keeping O-Chul alive at this point? Doesn't he already know where the gate is? He likes torturing him.
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May 31, 2009 01:07
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Nilbop posted:Jesus, you just can't stop O-Chul. I suspect he's keeping him alive because it is fun and he doesn't really consider O-Chul a threat. He'll kill him off once he can do so in a fun way. Xylon's only real weakness so far is that even if he isn't as stupid as he seems to be, he certainly underestimates people a lot and tends to play around with them instead of just killing them.
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May 31, 2009 01:10
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ImpAtom posted:I suspect he's keeping him alive because it is fun and he doesn't really consider O-Chul a threat. He'll kill him off once he can do so in a fun way. Xylon's only real weakness so far is that even if he isn't as stupid as he seems to be, he certainly underestimates people a lot and tends to play around with them instead of just killing them. I get the feeling that Xykon is really fundamentally uninterested in the whole "take over the world" thing. He doesn't actually want to do it. He wants to try, because it's a whole lot of fun, but if he ever succeeds he'd just end up bored. I strongly suspect that if Xykon sat down and figured out the easiest and simplest way to conquer the planet, he'd have it done within a few months. But he knows this, and he keeps people like O-Chul around because, goshdarnit, it just wouldn't be any fun without a few nemeses.
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May 31, 2009 01:35
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If O'Chul gets off a few good Smite Evils before Xykon's got his footing, he could probably at least get him in the mood for a hasty retreat. After that its just a matter of V and him managing to escape the thousands of guards that will prevent there escape, especially since I assume V can no longer port.
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May 31, 2009 02:55
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Anyone following Erfworld? Parson managed to swear at last. I'd recommend reading through it now that book 1 is ended if you've previously found it hard to follow, it does hold together a lot better as a complete work.
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May 31, 2009 03:54
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Hentaikid posted:Anyone following Erfworld? Parson managed to swear at last. I'd recommend reading through it now that book 1 is ended if you've previously found it hard to follow, it does hold together a lot better as a complete work. Oh wow, that means a lot more now that I noticed that.
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May 31, 2009 03:57
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Brannock posted:I haven't played D&D in a long time - what happens if the lich is half-reformed when the phylactery is destroyed? ZorbaTHut posted:On the other hand, "we have your phylactery, now all we need to do is find a way to destroy you" is quite a threat. I'm pretty sure that if the phylactery were delivered to the remaining paladins they could figure out a way to easily destroy it on command. That said, I don't think this particular lich would give a poo poo, becase giving a poo poo is just not his thing. He does come across as quite approachable at times, but i really don't think he would react to a threat in a useful way, but maybe his reaction would be entertaining.
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May 31, 2009 05:08
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I seem to recall that last time he was destroyed, Xykon regenerated one bit at a time over weeks.
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May 31, 2009 05:30
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Sefer posted:http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/ Holy poo poo. I want to run a dungeon like this. Does anyone have a writeup of that, in D&D hard terms?
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May 31, 2009 05:43
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That's how you're supposed to run kobolds, at least according to the old Monster Manuals.
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May 31, 2009 06:00
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I believe Dragon Mountain and to a lesser extent Axe of the Dwarvish Lords were all about cunning kobolds. IIRC Dragon Mountain is what started the trend.
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May 31, 2009 06:11
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Strabo4 posted:Oh wow, that means a lot more now that I noticed that. I thought maybe I'm just deadened to swearing but going back and looking I feel pretty confident saying that wasn't there originally
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May 31, 2009 07:32
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Maldraedior posted:I thought maybe I'm just deadened to swearing but going back and looking I feel pretty confident saying that wasn't there originally No, I remember seeing it when it originally updated, it was definitely there then.
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May 31, 2009 08:54
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The Werle posted:If O'Chul gets off a few good Smite Evils before Xykon's got his footing, he could probably at least get him in the mood for a hasty retreat. After that its just a matter of V and him managing to escape the thousands of guards that will prevent there escape, especially since I assume V can no longer port. Xykon's pretty badly wounded right now, what with taking an empowered sunburst flat in the face. He also has basically no high-level spells left, and if O'Chul gets V free to fire off another Disintegrate or something there's a real chance of them taking down his body. At that point, presumably they'd abandon the phylactery because it's hideously risky to bring it along given its probable trackability. Well, that's what I *hope* is going to happen, because it makes no sense to split up the party *again*.
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May 31, 2009 12:21
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happyelf posted:Some lichs are more vulnerable, such as the original Dracolich Dragotha, but most of the time, you've gotta do both. That's who I was basing my theory on. Either way, if they make off with his phylactery it would be a good thing. crime fighting hog fucked around with this message at 17:15 on May 31, 2009 |
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May 31, 2009 16:33
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V. Illych L. posted:Xykon's pretty badly wounded right now, what with taking an empowered sunburst flat in the face. He also has basically no high-level spells left, and if O'Chul gets V free to fire off another Disintegrate or something there's a real chance of them taking down his body. At that point, presumably they'd abandon the phylactery because it's hideously risky to bring it along given its probable trackability. What's stopping them from destroying his body, putting the phylactery inside of a bag of holding and stabbing the bag?
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May 31, 2009 17:14
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Calaveron posted:What's stopping them from destroying his body, putting the phylactery inside of a bag of holding and stabbing the bag? I think it's the fact Xykon's ludicrously more powerful than any of them.
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May 31, 2009 17:29
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Mystic Mongol posted:I think it's the fact Xykon's ludicrously more powerful than any of them. But let's assume that O-Chul manages to incapacitate him somehow, not necessarily destroy utterly, and V manages to warp them both off the premises with the phylactery (assuming Cloyster only lets you warp out, not in). What's stopping them from grabbing one of Haley's bags and then go after Xykon before he can create a new one? I mean, can phylacteries be destroyed that way?
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May 31, 2009 17:43
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I would totally forgive Rich stopping the webcomic and focusing on only putting out books every year or two if it stopped discussion like this.
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May 31, 2009 17:48
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Calaveron posted:(assuming Cloyster only lets you warp out, not in) You're correct. The advanced spell, Shellder, prevents warping in or out.
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May 31, 2009 18:06
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Calaveron posted:What's stopping them from destroying his body, putting the phylactery inside of a bag of holding and stabbing the bag? Again, I'd say tossing it into the rift would be a much simpler solution.
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May 31, 2009 18:40
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Calaveron posted:But let's assume that O-Chul manages to incapacitate him somehow, not necessarily destroy utterly, and V manages to warp them both off the premises with the phylactery (assuming Cloyster only lets you warp out, not in). What's stopping them from grabbing one of Haley's bags and then go after Xykon before he can create a new one? V can't teleport.
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May 31, 2009 18:44
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Stabbing a bag of holding, if I remember correctly, just means all the stuff pops out. Putting a bag of holding into another bag of holding tears a rift into the astral plane. Won't destroy it, but it will get picked up by some Gith.
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May 31, 2009 19:00
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Seftir posted:Stabbing a bag of holding, if I remember correctly, just means all the stuff pops out. Putting a bag of holding into another bag of holding tears a rift into the astral plane. Won't destroy it, but it will get picked up by some Gith. A whole book about Xykon and his search for his phylacracy in the astral plane would be so swell.
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May 31, 2009 21:43
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Affi posted:A whole book about Xykon and his search for his phylacracy in the astral plane would be so swell. More like 4 panels. Planeshift, divines where it is, scrys it, teleports there. Gets it back without breaking a sweat. High level wizards don't give a gently caress. E: not like a lich could sweat crime fighting hog fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jun 1, 2009 |
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Jun 1, 2009 01:06
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Seftir posted:More like 4 panels. Planeshift, divines where it is, scrys it, teleports there. Gets it back without breaking a sweat. High level sorcerers don't give a gently caress. Fixed  (Xykon is a sorcerer not a wizard :p )
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Jun 1, 2009 01:13
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high level spellcasters didn't give a gently caress. Druids, Clerics, wizards, etc. Anything but bards.
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Jun 1, 2009 01:15
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Cloister only prevents spells that are starting outside from getting in. You can teleport from the inside to a point outside (Celia used to do it all the time) or from any place inside to any other place inside (Therkla did it once to find Haley). The only way to magically get inside from outside is to be summoned. But all that aside, V can't teleport without a soul splice. It's in her forbidden school.
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Jun 1, 2009 01:21
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Seftir posted:Stabbing a bag of holding, if I remember correctly, just means all the stuff pops out. Putting a bag of holding into another bag of holding tears a rift into the astral plane. Won't destroy it, but it will get picked up by some Gith. Actually, you can put bags of holding inside one another. What you can't do is put a portable hole into a bag of holding, or vice versa.
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Jun 1, 2009 02:02
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Seftir posted:high level spellcasters didn't give a gently caress. Druids, Clerics, wizards, etc. Anything but bards. High level bards don't give a gently caress either, they just make other high level characters do their bidding with more social skills and manipulation-based magic than two trickster gods stapled together.
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Jun 1, 2009 02:30
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Guitar_Hero posted:Actually, you can put bags of holding inside one another. What you can't do is put a portable hole into a bag of holding, or vice versa. I've really wanted to suicide bomb a big enemy by doing this for a long time.
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Jun 1, 2009 03:24
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Caerulius posted:I've really wanted to suicide bomb a big enemy by doing this for a long time. We always considered it a mid-level last ditch resort but I knew the DM would be a huge rear end in a top hat and separate us all and then we'd be slim pickings for astral devourers and mind flayers, etc.
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Jun 1, 2009 03:46
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Seftir posted:high level spellcasters didn't give a gently caress. Druids, Clerics, wizards, etc. Anything but bards. Start of Darkness made it a point to talk about how everyone thinks sorcerers are retarded and pose no real threat.
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Jun 1, 2009 04:37
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Seftir posted:More like 4 panels. Planeshift, divines where it is, scrys it, teleports there. Gets it back without breaking a sweat. It's been cloistered, unless Xykon has researched an epic level divination / scrying spell he wouldn't be able to find it.
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Jun 1, 2009 04:39
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HKR posted:Start of Darkness made it a point to talk about how everyone thinks sorcerers are retarded and pose no real threat. It also made it a point that Xykon killed a lot of wizards because they thought such.
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