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HKR posted:I love how you guys are so busy arguing about alignment that you didn't even consider the implications of the last panel. What's that you say? Roy's Dad isn't living up to the ideals and standards of the Lawful Good alignment? We knew that when he was kept out of Celestia.
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Jun 24, 2009 15:53
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Does your alignment stop fluctuating once you kick the bucket or do we have the chance of sweet sweet karma kicking Roy's Dad's rear end down to one of the lower plains once he's out of limbo?
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Jun 24, 2009 15:58
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Correnth posted:Cute touch with the "S. Rogers" sign, even though I feel way too nerdy for getting it. I feel way too un-nerdy for not getting it... Who's S. Rogers?
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Jun 24, 2009 16:04
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I'm guessing Steve Rogers, Captain America.
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Jun 24, 2009 16:04
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SirDan3k posted:Does your alignment stop fluctuating once you kick the bucket or do we have the chance of sweet sweet karma kicking Roy's Dad's rear end down to one of the lower plains once he's out of limbo? He's not evil, he's a jerk. He's never murdered children or stolen from the poor, and he spent most of his life saving towns and villages from improbably evil antagonists. Being kind of an rear end father isn't hellworthy, as we see when we realize that Roy's grandfather is exactly the same way, except he approves of fighters and scorns wizards, instead of the other way around. Let me hasten to remind you that Roy is also a big fat jerk.
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Jun 24, 2009 16:06
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Mystic Mongol posted:He's not evil, he's a jerk. He's never murdered children or stolen from the poor, and he spent most of his life saving towns and villages from improbably evil antagonists. Being kind of an rear end father isn't hellworthy, as we see when we realize that Roy's grandfather is exactly the same way, except he approves of fighters and scorns wizards, instead of the other way around. I think the "sweet sweet Karma" would be the result of burning important information from the Lawful-Good Higher Ups instead of giving it to a hero who is actively working to save reality itself from being unwoven, simply because he's a selfish twat who wants Xylon to die even if it means allowing other people to fall to evil. I'm not much of a D&D player, so I don't really much too much about the alignments, but I'm pretty sure that poo poo ain't Lawful Good.
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Jun 24, 2009 16:47
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Retarded alignment arguments are exactly the reason I always completely ignored alignment in D&D games before 4th edition. Detect <alignment> didn't exist. Smite <alignment> was just Smite. And so on. gently caress alignment. It's dumb.
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Jun 24, 2009 17:28
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Yeah, who would want to live in a world where black and white concepts of good and evil-- often tied to major religions-- and the people who espouse them come into contrast with the moral gray areas of every day life! Can you imagine the kind of trouble that would lead to?
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Jun 24, 2009 17:32
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Can we please, please talk about whether or not a person is a good guy or a bad guy, or whether he's doing stuff for a good cause or just for his own selfish reasons, without a bunch of OMG ALIGNMENT DEBATE HRRNNG spazzouts? So, why is Ray a big fat jerk?
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Jun 24, 2009 17:54
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Halloween Jack posted:Can we please, please talk about whether or not a person is a good guy or a bad guy, or whether he's doing stuff for a good cause or just for his own selfish reasons, without a bunch of OMG ALIGNMENT DEBATE HRRNNG spazzouts? Because he's Chaotic Evil.
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Jun 24, 2009 18:08
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Correnth posted:Cute touch with the "S. Rogers" sign, even though I feel way too nerdy for getting it. I don't think you should feel nerdy, for god's sake it was on CNN the day they killed Cap off. Now he might be coming back July 1st. I love this comic.
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Jun 24, 2009 18:09
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I personally never found Eugene to be anywhere near as insufferable as Roy's constant holier-than-thou bullshit. Roy is by far my least favorite character and I'm a bit disappointed that he's coming back, but then I suppose I can't complain, seeing as how he didn't get very much screentime for about two hundred strips or so.
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Jun 24, 2009 18:12
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Halloween Jack posted:Can we please, please talk about whether or not a person is a good guy or a bad guy, or whether he's doing stuff for a good cause or just for his own selfish reasons, without a bunch of OMG ALIGNMENT DEBATE HRRNNG spazzouts? This last comic didn't exhibit his jerkishness per say, but it clearly demonstrated why he's a jerk; he's completely and totally self absorbed. If it's not important to him and his quest, it's pretty much ignored.
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Jun 24, 2009 18:14
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Seftir posted:I don't think you should feel nerdy, for god's sake it was on CNN the day they killed Cap off. Now he might be coming back July 1st. Just in time for Canada Day! 
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Jun 24, 2009 18:17
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sumosally posted:This last comic didn't exhibit his jerkishness per say, but it clearly demonstrated why he's a jerk; he's completely and totally self absorbed. If it's not important to him and his quest, it's pretty much ignored. Edit: Of course, Ray's companions can actually tell him that he needs sidequest XP before he goes after Xykon. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jun 24, 2009 |
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Jun 24, 2009 18:22
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Halloween Jack posted:So, why is Ray a big fat jerk? He said mean things to that paladin lady, and if I white knight for her she might sleep with me . . . once I'm dead, too.
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Jun 24, 2009 18:23
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Halloween Jack posted:Can we please, please talk about whether or not a person is a good guy or a bad guy, or whether he's doing stuff for a good cause or just for his own selfish reasons, without a bunch of OMG ALIGNMENT DEBATE HRRNNG spazzouts? We're actually seeing such an alignment argument in comic. The angels are all, "OMG He's fraternizing with fiends, this is a clear alignment violation, we must alert the proper authorities." Eugene's response is, basically, "Whatever. Good job with those dragons and those boats, and nice try with the lich."
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Jun 24, 2009 19:07
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Mystic Mongol posted:We're actually seeing such an alignment argument in comic. The angels are all, "OMG He's fraternizing with fiends, this is a clear alignment violation, we must alert the proper authorities." Eugene's response is, basically, "Whatever. Good job with those dragons and those boats, and nice try with the lich." Or the angels might be worried about the fiends' supposed plan to assault the upper planes, and want Roy to do something to prevent whatever it is they're planning.
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Jun 24, 2009 19:10
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How the hell is Roy supposed to prevent whatever three über-fiends who can stop time and appear whereever they want to are up to? Surely they could send a solar or something?
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Jun 24, 2009 20:07
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Everyone expects Roy to be their errand boy; why do you think he's always grumpy and trying to refocus things on his own quest?
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Jun 24, 2009 20:31
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Well, yeah, but this seems a tad out of his area of expertise. He's an adventurer. He kills villains and loots things and mediates disputes. He does not bust up interplanar soul-trading cartels.
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Jun 24, 2009 20:35
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V. Illych L. posted:How the hell is [good protagonist] supposed to prevent whatever [evil antagonists] who can [powerful ability #1] and [powerful ability #2] to are up to? Surely they could send a solar or something? Because it is the genre for it! What would happen to the questing economy if good-aligned deities stopped subcontracting?
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Jun 24, 2009 20:43
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V. Illych L. posted:Well, yeah, but this seems a tad out of his area of expertise. That's actually exactly the kind of thing a high-level adventurer would do. Making high-level quests that aren't as bog-standard as "kill the demon" often involves stuff like that.
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Jun 24, 2009 20:49
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Well, if he had any sort of capacity for plane-shifting or tracking down these, that might work. But he's also sort of on another job at the moment. I mean, come on.
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Jun 24, 2009 20:53
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V. Illych L. posted:Well, if he had any sort of capacity for plane-shifting or tracking down these, that might work. But he's also sort of on another job at the moment. You talk as if Roy is an adventuring party unto himself. With Belkar, Haley, V and Durkon, as well as Elan's bardic knowledge, they can do this quest pretty easily. And I wouldn't be surprised if the fiends went to Xykon to try to make amends, and end up being part of his plan for the Snarl. rotinaj fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jun 24, 2009 |
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Jun 24, 2009 21:10
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rotinaj posted:That's actually exactly the kind of thing a high-level adventurer would do.
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Jun 24, 2009 21:43
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Its funny, when rereading the archives noticed that those three fiends first appeared as Sabine's bosses, I don't think the comic is done with them yet, not by a long shot (which is a shame because they are super boring and generic for OotS villains.) As for V's alignment, disintegrating Kubota is much stronger evidence of him being chaotic or neutral than stuff like the dragon killing. I've never played D&D but I do read some comics based off of it and have never really seen a chaotic neutral archtype similar to the lawful good, lawful evil, etc ones that get brought up.
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Jun 24, 2009 22:24
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Cliff Racer posted:Its funny, when rereading the archives noticed that those three fiends first appeared as Sabine's bosses, I don't think the comic is done with them yet, not by a long shot (which is a shame because they are super boring and generic for OotS villains.) You might notice something else about OotS villains: they tend to develop over time. Most of their time on-panel has been exposition, don't forget. Give them a couple minor arcs. quote:As for V's alignment, disintegrating Kubota is much stronger evidence of him being chaotic or neutral than stuff like the dragon killing. I've never played D&D but I do read some comics based off of it and have never really seen a chaotic neutral archtype similar to the lawful good, lawful evil, etc ones that get brought up. The chaotic neutral stereotype, at least in terms of PCs, is the selfish madman, usually played by someone who doesn't want to have any reasoned character development required of them. Lawful is too lawful, neutral is too cautious, chaos is great for someone who thinks it's hilarious to steal all the pants from a town. I don't know about an archetype though, I have to go dig out my books and see what 3E has to say about it.
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Jun 24, 2009 23:46
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The closest to a decent Chaotic Neutral archetype would be Jack Sparrow of Pirates of the Caribbean fame. Really self-involved, there's nothing -personal- about it but he'll sell you up the river for a nickel and will be surprised when after you get out from whatever terrible situation he put you in you've still got a grudge against him. Chaotic Neutral is a very hard alignment to play as anything that is not an utter jackass. Incidentally, this is why any time somebody says that their character is chaotic neutral you take a very hard look at their character sheet so you know exactly how to grudgekill them when they start getting disruptive.
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Jun 25, 2009 00:20
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I don't remember where I read it, but the best example of a Chaotic neutral archetype I ever heard... Daffy Duck.
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Jun 25, 2009 00:32
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CK07 posted:chaos is great for someone who thinks it's hilarious to steal all the pants from a town As much as I hate the Wacky Chaotic Neutral archetype, this actually would be pretty hilarious. If someone was planning to play an epic-level thief who'd been driven insane I'd actually be disappointed if they didn't do this.
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Jun 25, 2009 01:26
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navyjack posted:I don't remember where I read it, but the best example of a Chaotic neutral archetype I ever heard... Are we talking old school Daffy who goes around dicking with people just because he can, or the "Duck Season, Rabbit Season" one?
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Jun 25, 2009 01:38
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I've been running a chaotic evil elven ranger for the past few months and while he does his fair share of jackassery, probably about 50% of his non-combat activities wind up being highly self-destructive. I've thrown gems into sewage, gotten an eye stabbed out as part of a bet (I won 50 gp and it cost 1500 to replace the eye), and emerged from pointlessly dangerous situations only by the virtue of a lucky crit. I think that's really going to be the end result of anyone playing a "crazy person" correctly. V's behavior seems too intentional to be truly chaotic neutral. If anything the 4E "unaligned" may describe him most comfortably. He's not devoted to evil but he's not devoted to good either. He just wants to go about his business.
Strontosaurus fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jun 25, 2009 |
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Jun 25, 2009 02:14
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To be honest, with the exception of making a deal with demons (in order to save his family,) none of his actions really seemed evil to me. He killed an evil man, gave a bunch of refuges a home, saved his family, killed a bunch of dragons, reunited a team of good adventurers (or at least tried to,) and tried to defeat an evil lich. In my opinion he would be neutral good or chaotic good but apparently the comic is calling into question his goodness more so than his lawfulness. At least from what we have seen so far anyway.
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Jun 25, 2009 02:41
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Cliff Racer posted:To be honest, with the exception of making a deal with demons (in order to save his family,) none of his actions really seemed evil to me. He killed an evil man, gave a bunch of refuges a home, saved his family, killed a bunch of dragons, reunited a team of good adventurers (or at least tried to,) and tried to defeat an evil lich. Your title makes me think we may not be able to trust your judgment regarding good and evil. 
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Jun 25, 2009 02:51
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GigaPeon posted:Are we talking old school Daffy who goes around dicking with people just because he can, or the "Duck Season, Rabbit Season" one? Cliff Racer posted:To be honest, with the exception of making a deal with demons (in order to save his family,) none of his actions really seemed evil to me. He killed an evil man, gave a bunch of refuges a home, saved his family, killed a bunch of dragons, reunited a team of good adventurers (or at least tried to,) and tried to defeat an evil lich. Alignment notwithstanding, V's actions have always been motivated pretty much by ego.
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Jun 25, 2009 03:10
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Evil Mastermind posted:The later. CN is basically "Me first, me second, everyone else a distant third." Someone who's CN will sacrifice anyone and anything to save his own hide. you've missed the point of D&D Good and Evil. placement along the Good-Evil axis is entirely dependent on whether you put others or yourself first. old school daffy is CN, lovely daffy would be CE
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Jun 25, 2009 03:31
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Maldraedior posted:you've missed the point of D&D Good and Evil. placement along the Good-Evil axis is entirely dependent on whether you put others or yourself first. old school daffy is CN, lovely daffy would be CE Okay, we've entered a whole new quagmire: you think Daffy as portrayed in such classics as Chuck Jones' Rabbit Fire/Rabbit Seasoning/Duck! Rabbit! Duck! series of shorts is the lovely Daffy? Seriously?
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Jun 25, 2009 05:04
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Cabbit posted:Okay, we've entered a whole new quagmire: you think Daffy as portrayed in such classics as Chuck Jones' Rabbit Fire/Rabbit Seasoning/Duck! Rabbit! Duck! series of shorts is the lovely Daffy? Seriously? I think he means lovely behavior, as in more likely to blow someone up for the crime of existing in the same cartoon.
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Jun 25, 2009 05:30
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Ali Babba Bunny Daffy is another fine example. Toss Bugs to Hassan until you're in trouble, then "BUGSY BOY OL'BUDDY OL'PAL!"
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