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Bakerboy posted:Since Fall Kemp never finished the second trilogy. What the hell? He leaves so many plot threads dangling and reveals something that most of the readers had probably figured out by now?
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# ? Jul 20, 2009 00:38 |
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# ? May 10, 2024 00:06 |
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Magnificent Quiver posted:What the hell? He leaves so many plot threads dangling and reveals something that most of the readers had probably figured out by now? Too be fair, it's been a long time since I read it. He did a better job writing it than I did explaining it, probably.
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# ? Jul 21, 2009 12:51 |
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Magnificent Quiver posted:What the hell? He leaves so many plot threads dangling and reveals something that most of the readers had probably figured out by now? I thought the number of galaxies had been explicitly said to be decreasing over time due to universal expansion in previous books???
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# ? Jul 21, 2009 23:24 |
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Bakerboy posted:Too be fair, it's been a long time since I read it. He did a better job writing it than I did explaining it, probably. The whole point of the first novel was showing how fallible the library is!
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# ? Jul 22, 2009 01:39 |
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They're probably not "Space Opera" but are the John Scalzi "Old Man's War"/etc worth reading? Looking for some good siffy lately.
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# ? Jul 25, 2009 11:17 |
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Toadsniff posted:They're probably not "Space Opera" but are the John Scalzi "Old Man's War"/etc worth reading? Looking for some good siffy lately. They're more like a more nuanced version of early Heinlein, but yeah, they're worth reading (at least the first two).
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# ? Jul 25, 2009 16:50 |
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Chairman Capone posted:I think KJA is best when he's doing ideas that are his own, not working in an established setting like Dune or Star Wars (although I haven't read any of his X-Files stuff, maybe they're good). But I really liked his Captain Nemo, The Martian War, and War of the Worlds: Global Dispatches. Don't read his X-Files stuff. I've read two of his X-Files books when I was 12. Even at that age I found it was just not interesting. His style was boring, and he just cannot bring any tension or any form of chemistry in his stories. But having bought Road To Dune, I figured I'd give the short stories like Whipping Mech and Dune World a chance. It has only reaffirmed that the man should have never touched the story of which I am such an obvious fangeek with his filthy tainted fingers-o'-suck.
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# ? Jul 25, 2009 18:41 |
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I liked the Night's Dawn trilogy on the whole, but the ending was somewhat inevitable. Hamilton spent so long building up the character of Quinn Dexter as infallible (as the other possessed got more human and less frightening) that he became near invincible.. and that required an even more improbable, powerful force to counter, until you're left with an "ugh" solution to wrap everything up. The problem was in having a singular character serve as the main driving conflict behind an entire book. It gets built up so much it becomes hard to bring it down within the confines of a linearly progressing novel. And The Saga Of The Seven Suns or whatever was just unadulterated crap. Kevin J. Anderson is the Spot Goes To Town of sci-fi -- worthless on a literary sense and aimed at people with undeveloped tastes... but so damned easy to read the only real investment is the cash used to buy the book. An easy way to waste a bit of time so long as you don't try to get involved in the plot/characters.
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# ? Jul 27, 2009 16:03 |
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Bonus posted:Alastair Reynolds' Revelation Space universe is awesome, I really enjoyed all the books that are set in it (haven't read The Prefect yet) except for Absolution Gap. The end just fizzles out and the parts taking place on Hela drag out a bit sometimes, although it's much more character oriented than the previous books, which is really cool, because the characters are mostly interesting, especially Scorpio. I really liked the whole Rev Space Universe, but your right, Absolution Gap sucked. If there's someone out there reading the series right now, waiting to get to A.G., here's the best advice anyone can give you: don't. Skip the book. Don't buy it, don't touch it, don't look it up on Amazon, don't DO A GODDAMN THING WITH IT. Its a terrible ending that will cloud you judgement of the series. Right now, I'm in the middle of reading Charles Stross' Accelerando, which is a credit to the genre. This guy is awesome. Satone fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jul 28, 2009 |
# ? Jul 28, 2009 14:26 |
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Satone posted:Right now, I'm in the middle of reading Charles Stross' Accelerando, which is a credit to the genre. This guy is awesome. I'll admit. I was a little scared of Stross from his reviewers. I read Accelerando and other than the one or two creepily detailed sex scenes, it was really good. After that, I read his new one "Saturn's Children" which is a decent enough story but a little weak. (though I'll disagree with the reviewers that said it was hard to keep track of the characters, it wasn't hard at all)
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# ? Jul 28, 2009 17:40 |
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Moist von Lipwig posted:I love Hamilton, but the ending of Nights Dawn was so terrible, I felt ripped off. 3400 pages for this? The commonwealth saga is really good and so is the void saga. I especially love the dream sections of the void saga.
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# ? Jul 28, 2009 22:24 |
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DriveMeCrazy posted:I liked the Night's Dawn trilogy on the whole, but the ending was somewhat inevitable. Hamilton spent so long building up the character of Quinn Dexter as infallible (as the other possessed got more human and less frightening) that he became near invincible.. and that required an even more improbable, powerful force to counter, until you're left with an "ugh" solution to wrap everything up. The problem was in having a singular character serve as the main driving conflict behind an entire book. It gets built up so much it becomes hard to bring it down within the confines of a linearly progressing novel. I hate to be a one-subject poster in this forum but I thought a lot more was wrong with this series than just the ending. I know that most SF is at least partially targeted to teenage boys but the amount of possessed sex, rape and torture in these books is really excessive IMO, and the Deus Ex Machina ending was made necessary not just by demon lord Quinn Dexter but by the fact that Hamilton had frayed the twenty or so plot threads so widely that he had no idea how to bring them back together into a cohesive ending and pretty obviously just said "gently caress it."
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# ? Jul 29, 2009 23:38 |
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Its basically the same as how he ends Fallen Dragon as well though. Find mystical space thingy, solve all the problems. At least he got much better with the commonwealth series, and the void series. Also, I really enjoyed absolution gap, but the ending was very much a cop out. But it did put a cap on the series, but puts it far in the future, so he can come back and write more novels.
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# ? Jul 30, 2009 00:13 |
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Wibbleman posted:Its basically the same as how he ends Fallen Dragon as well though. Find mystical space thingy, solve all the problems.
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# ? Jul 30, 2009 07:57 |
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Fans of space opera may enjoy Jack Vance's novel Space Opera. It is about an opera company who embarks on a tour of the galaxy. The tour is sadly marred by numerous aural misunderstandings with alien cultures.
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# ? Aug 1, 2009 12:20 |
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Paul Kemp posted:I hate to be a one-subject poster in this forum but I thought a lot more was wrong with this series than just the ending. I know that most SF is at least partially targeted to teenage boys but the amount of possessed sex, rape and torture in these books is really excessive IMO, and the Deus Ex Machina ending was made necessary not just by demon lord Quinn Dexter but by the fact that Hamilton had frayed the twenty or so plot threads so widely that he had no idea how to bring them back together into a cohesive ending and pretty obviously just said "gently caress it." Oh definitely, there was more wrong with it than just a tacked-on ending. But the same elements that made it interesting to read (i.e easy to read, just action movie-style sci fi) also let you pass over the gratuitous rape/'sensibilities shock' just as easily. I don't think even teenage boys would have been excited by the hamhanded and Heinleinian way he approached sex. As it was, he created an interesting world with interesting conflicts and butchered it with some weird metaphysical possessed/religious theme and gross pornography. Still, excruciatingly easy to read, so I find it hard to complain about what is essentially some fun freebie sci-fi. A lot of sci-fi authors would have pulled a lot worse a job.
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# ? Aug 1, 2009 16:31 |
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So, I want to start a new space opera book but I'm having trouble choosing which one to buy next. I've narrowed it down to three choices, all coming recommended from this thread: -A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge -Revelation Space by Alastair Reynolds -Consider Phlebas by Iain M Banks From someone that's read all three, which one would you say is the best place to start? I'm not quite certain I'll be willing to read the entire series from any of them, so just consider the first titles for now.
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# ? Aug 1, 2009 20:48 |
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They're all excellent books; AFUtD is probably the most stand alone (since the prequel is only loosely connected), followed by Consider Phlebas (Bank's Culture stuff is all part of a series, but each novel stands on its own feet), followed by Revelation Space, where the major plot threads aren't tied up until several novels later. I dunno. They're all drat good, up their with the best SF novels of the last 20 years or so, and I find it hard to recommend any one over the others. I'd say start with AFUtD, and bear in mind that for the other two, people sometimes find other books in those series as being stronger: Use of Weapons for Banks, Chasm City for Reynolds.
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# ? Aug 2, 2009 00:28 |
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Baron Von Awesome posted:From someone that's read all three, which one would you say is the best place to start? I'm not quite certain I'll be willing to read the entire series from any of them, so just consider the first titles for now. Just flip a coin or something, worst case scenario is you read a good book.
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# ? Aug 2, 2009 04:48 |
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Shampoo posted:I've read just about everything that Reynolds has put out there, I'm a big fan as well. I even imported The Prefect and House of Suns because I didn't want to wait for the US release I hope he expands on the universe in House of Suns, there's just so much potential there. It's one of my new favorites. Yes, I read Thousandth Night, I think that the universe could use even more expanding
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# ? Aug 2, 2009 23:49 |
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Baron Von Awesome posted:So, I want to start a new space opera book but I'm having trouble choosing which one to buy next. I've narrowed it down to three choices, all coming recommended from this thread: A Fire Upon the Deep is my favorite of the three, but I'd say the prequel A Deepness in the Sky is more accessible, in that it's not ultratech. Fire has more revolutionary ideas/concepts, but I think the story of Deepness is better. For reference, I would venture that it's my favorite novel in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy genre overall right now.
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# ? Aug 3, 2009 01:57 |
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No love for Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos? Admittedly, I haven't read many space operas, but I love this author and these books. I'm also eagerly awaiting the movie adaptation that has been optioned or in the works for a while now.
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# ? Aug 3, 2009 13:48 |
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Three stories into the first Man-Kzin Wars book and I've already hit interspecies furry erotica. Thanks for the QC, Niven.
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# ? Aug 5, 2009 06:01 |
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glug posted:No love for Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos? Admittedly, I haven't read many space operas, but I love this author and these books. I'm also eagerly awaiting the movie adaptation that has been optioned or in the works for a while now. I read the first one and absolutely loved it, but the cliffhanger ending upset me enough that I lost all interest in reading The Fall of Hyperion.
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# ? Aug 5, 2009 06:38 |
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Magnificent Quiver posted:Three stories into the first Man-Kzin Wars book and I've already hit interspecies furry erotica. Thanks for the QC, Niven. If it's any consolation, that's pretty much the last of it too. Although I think that same author has a sequel in II or III.
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# ? Aug 5, 2009 14:03 |
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What? Really? I don't remember that at all. Thankfully. Although I kind of thought that Trainer of Slaves and Norah were going to get it on in later volumes, was very relieved when it didn't in fact happen. Although on the other hand the Ringworld books have as much interspecies sex as possible to make up for it. Niven definitely has a thing for bizarre sex, I don't think there's a single book of his I've read that doesn't involve zero-G sex, negative-G sex, interspecies sex, orgies, or combinations of the above.
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# ? Aug 5, 2009 14:29 |
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Yeah, The Ringworld Engineers, book 2 of that series, introduces the term rishathra, used by the various humanoid species of the Ringworld to describe inter-species sex. Every time the main characters find a new species, that species basically greets them with "Hi, how are you? Here's our policy on rishathra (for pleasure / for money / as a form of greeting / to seal a deal / we don't like it)
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# ? Aug 5, 2009 19:52 |
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EX-GAIJIN AT LAST posted:If it's any consolation, that's pretty much the last of it too. Although I think that same author has a sequel in II or III. Reading that one now, the author is talking about a 12-year-old's tits. Can anyone recommend a book with a humanity uber alles theme? I have a weakness for books where humanity gets beaten or starts out as the underdog, then proceeds to kick rear end. Sort of like the first three books of the Uplift series, or that weird Niven book where the elephant aliens invade the solar system.
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# ? Aug 6, 2009 23:52 |
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Starship Troopers is probably the obvious answer. Stephen Baxter's Xeelee Sequence has that element to that; the human race twice gets conquered by alien species, and each time manages to overthrow them, steal their technology, and essentially tell all other alien races to go gently caress themselves. Then it gets to the point where humans go to war against dark matter itself in a billion-year long war, only to get defeated and end up exile into a four-dimensional prison planet. The bits about the human race being conquered and then emerging stronger than before are mostly background elements (most stories take place either before or after the conquests, although I think one or two stories take place during them) but honestly you should read them regardless, I truly do believe that Baxter is the greatest current sci-fi writer and the one who has the best grasp on truly mind-boggling concepts and whose aliens are really alien (for example, one of the alien races that conquer mankind are just flow patterns in liquid as they evolved in patches of mud). I think in 20 or 50 years he's probably going to have the reputation that Arthur C. Clarke or Heinlein have now. Other than that, if you're willing to go a bit beyond just books, there's the comic Scarlet Traces and its sequel, which are set 10 years after The War of the Worlds and whose plot consists of the British Empire using reverse-engineered Martian technology captured during the invasion to build a space fleet and invade Mars to get the Martians back.
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# ? Aug 7, 2009 00:43 |
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Thanks for the suggestions. I've read a bunch of Baxter's stories, but I got really turned off when I bought a novel by him that turned out to be a near-exact copy of Manifold: Origins. I probably should've mentioned that I've read Starship Troopers. It seems to me that it was more about mankind asserting its dominance rather than coming back from the brink of extinction or finding itself alone in a hostile universe.
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# ? Aug 7, 2009 00:59 |
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What was the book that was the copy of Manifold: Origins? As much as I like him I haven't really read anything he's put out in the past few years, since 2002 or 2003 or so (actually maybe not anything since Manifold Origins). Looking over my stuff his Xeelee stories that deal with the alien occupations are the novel Timelike Infinity (set as the humans overthrow the second occupation) and Vaccuum Diagrams (which is a collection of short stories including those set during both occupations and the period of human conquest of the universe afterwards). And as we're on the topic of Baxter for anyone who is unfamiliar with him, in addition to the above, I would recommend Ring, Flux, Raft, Anti-Ice, The Time Ships, Voyage, Titan, Moonseed, and the Manifold Trilogy.
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# ? Aug 7, 2009 06:29 |
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Magnificent Quiver posted:Can anyone recommend a book with a humanity uber alles theme? I have a weakness for books where humanity gets beaten or starts out as the underdog, then proceeds to kick rear end. Sort of like the first three books of the Uplift series, or that weird Niven book where the elephant aliens invade the solar system. Timothy Zahn likes to do that; the Cobra trilogy and Conquerors trilogy are both variations on this theme. In the former, humans are either stalemated or losing a war with aliens until the introduction of Cobras: cybernetically-enhanced supersoldiers who can pass as normal humans. In the latter, the aliens have virtually indestructible starship hulls and humans have to pull out all kinds of tactical tricks because their weapons aren't good enough.
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# ? Aug 7, 2009 09:05 |
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There's a Xeelee omnibus coming out, though Amazon says it's not being released in paperback until Jan 2011.Baron Von Awesome posted:So, I want to start a new space opera book but I'm having trouble choosing which one to buy next. I've narrowed it down to three choices, all coming recommended from this thread: I've not read Revelation Space yet, but just finished A Fire Upon The Deep and it was fantastic. Consider Phlebas is also great. You can't really go wrong with any of them. quote:Can anyone recommend a book with a humanity uber alles theme? I have a weakness for books where humanity gets beaten or starts out as the underdog, then proceeds to kick rear end. Sort of like the first three books of the Uplift series, or that weird Niven book where the elephant aliens invade the solar system. Try Old Man's War by John Scalzi and Armor by John Steakly. Also recommend Berserkers: The Beginning by Fred Saberhagen, a collection of short stories about humanity fighting against huge sentient killing machines. There is a series called Orphanage by Robert Buettner which would fit the bill, but I couldn't finish the first book because I found the writing so weak. Maybe one to get from the library. it dont matter fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Aug 7, 2009 |
# ? Aug 7, 2009 13:29 |
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I just got S.M. Stirling's The Sky People today. For those who don't know it's set in an alternate history where in the early 1960s the first US and Soviet space probes to Venus and Mars found, instead of the dry dead worlds of reality, worlds teeming with life - Venus a jungle-like planet with dinosaurs, Mars a Barsoom-like planet, both with human tribes and kingdoms and whatnot on them. So instead of someone like John Carter meeting Dejah Thoris you have NASA astronauts meeting the kings of Mars. I haven't started reading it yet and to be honest Stirling isn't my favorite writer but the concept just seems really, really neat to me - does anyone know any other books that are similar to this?
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# ? Aug 9, 2009 03:02 |
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I finished Judas Unchained a few days ago and I just realized the Void Trilogy is in the Commonwealth Universe. Usually, I have to work my fascination in the characters I read about out of my body before I can start a new book. How prominently do the major players from Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained feature in the Void Trilogy? Hell, do they feature at all?
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# ? Aug 9, 2009 09:19 |
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Chairman Capone posted:I just got S.M. Stirling's The Sky People today. For those who don't know it's set in an alternate history where in the early 1960s the first US and Soviet space probes to Venus and Mars found, instead of the dry dead worlds of reality, worlds teeming with life - Venus a jungle-like planet with dinosaurs, Mars a Barsoom-like planet, both with human tribes and kingdoms and whatnot on them. So instead of someone like John Carter meeting Dejah Thoris you have NASA astronauts meeting the kings of Mars. I'd be very interested to hear what you think when you're done. The concept sounds fantastic but I can't stand Stirling, so I'd need a really good recommendation before I drop money on that.
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# ? Aug 9, 2009 15:31 |
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Chairman Capone posted:I just got S.M. Stirling's The Sky People today. For those who don't know it's set in an alternate history where in the early 1960s the first US and Soviet space probes to Venus and Mars found, instead of the dry dead worlds of reality, worlds teeming with life - Venus a jungle-like planet with dinosaurs, Mars a Barsoom-like planet, both with human tribes and kingdoms and whatnot on them. So instead of someone like John Carter meeting Dejah Thoris you have NASA astronauts meeting the kings of Mars. If you share his Christian viewpoint, or can at least read it as the same kind of counterfactual as life on Mars and Venus, I won't hesitate to recommend the first two books of C. S. Lewis's space trilogy (Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra). The first describes a college professor abducted by a couple of colleagues after he discovers their spaceship, and their trip to Mars. It's not "teeming" with life, but in the lowlands there's enough atmosphere to make it habitable and it's home to several different intelligent species. The second describes his trip to Venus, which is a near-total ocean world just receiving its Adam and Eve. Lewis himself said that Perelandra was his own favorite of the books he'd written in his life. If you're solidly anti-Christian and can't stand even reading about it, then I guess they wouldn't be for you, but otherwise they are worth your while.
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# ? Aug 9, 2009 18:08 |
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Chairman Capone posted:Starship Troopers is probably the obvious answer. Regarding the Xeelee Sequence: What's the suggested reading order? Wikipedia says one thing, the author says another, and then there's publishing order.
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# ? Aug 9, 2009 21:26 |
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EX-GAIJIN AT LAST posted:If you share his Christian viewpoint, or can at least read it as the same kind of counterfactual as life on Mars and Venus, I won't hesitate to recommend the first two books of C. S. Lewis's space trilogy (Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra). I've actually read those, I thought that Out of the Silent Planet was quite good but Perelandra was getting to the point where the Christian theme was a bit much for me. In the first book I felt it was a space fantasy with Christian backdrops, in the second I felt that it was mainly a Christian polemic with the space stuff more as an afterthought. I've avoided That Hideous Strength altogether, from what I've read it's even heavier than Perelandra. And looking at my question I guess I can answer it a bit myself, since we were talking about Niven above his Rainbow Mars kind of fits the type of book I was curious about, although that's more an excuse for a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen-type crossover/literary homage. Although I did like how he explained how Mars could go from the planet Percival Lowell observed to the planet Mariner 4 observed within a century or two. (A giant tree serving as a living space elevator sucked all the moisture from the planet in order for it to grow and reproduce before spreading its saplings throughout the solar system...And if you think that's weird, Terry Pratchett actually came up with the idea and was originally going to co-author with Niven). platero posted:Regarding the Xeelee Sequence: What's the suggested reading order? Wikipedia says one thing, the author says another, and then there's publishing order. Looking at the Wikipedia page and the quote they have from Baxter there, I would say follow his preferred reading order. Really I think the 'main' story can be found in Vacuum Diagrams, Timelike Infinity, and Ring in that order (Vacuum Diagrams being a collection of short stories will spoil a bit of stuff from the later novels but not a whole lot more than what you'd have already read from this thread, but it also sets up a lot of the setting that would be useful to you for reading the novels set later in the series).
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# ? Aug 9, 2009 21:38 |
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# ? May 10, 2024 00:06 |
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Chairman Capone posted:I've actually read those, I thought that Out of the Silent Planet was quite good but Perelandra was getting to the point where the Christian theme was a bit much for me. In the first book I felt it was a space fantasy with Christian backdrops, in the second I felt that it was mainly a Christian polemic with the space stuff more as an afterthought. I've avoided That Hideous Strength altogether, from what I've read it's even heavier than Perelandra. This is only one of so, so many moments of in this book. Chairman Capone, I'm assuming you've read Burroughs since you mention John Carter. Are you looking for modern planetary romances (Philip Reeve's Larklight series? Karl Schroeder? Colin Greenland's Harm's Way? Kage Baker's Empress of Mars?), or just planetary romances in general (Leigh Brackett, maybe?), or what?
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# ? Aug 9, 2009 22:54 |