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Hoi shadowchums! I've been playing SR for a good long while, but recently I have run into a problem. One of my players stumbled upon the Capsule Round from Arsenal (p. 34-35) and combined it with Narcoject (p. 246 and 329, core book). This little combo allows a good shooter to deal a moderate amount of stun damage on a hit AND force a toxin resist roll dealing MORE stun damage. At this point he has not abused the combination due to a prohibitive cost (12R 530Y) and a well founded fear that opponents may attempt the same tactic, but what I am wondering is if there is any errata (other than http://shadowrun4.com/resources/arsenal_errata_132.pdf) on the capsule rounds and what chems they can carry? Additionally, have any of you ever run into a combination of weapons/gear/spells that was just too broken for the table, and as a player or GM what did you do about it?
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Aug 12, 2009 13:47
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Garl_Grimm posted:Hoi shadowchums! Something I always rule as far as injection-vector toxins is that if the force of the attack is less than the target's total armor (i.e. the attack is dealing Stun instead of Phsyical) then the injection doesn't occur as the armor has blocked its penetration of the skin. Stun attacks, like capsule rounds, inflicting a similar result could be handled the same way. This will fix the problem if these expensive rounds are taking down large targets too quickly (not to mention it makes sense). As for broken stuff: Stunbolt, drain for damage, is the absolute most broken spell in Shadowrun 4th. Any caster worth their salt will overcast it and throw high Force stuns for minimal damage to themselves (if any). The casters we have in our game regularly throw around Force 10 and 11 Stunbolts and at worst take a box or two of physical damage for taking down combat monsters or disrupting powerful spirits.
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Aug 12, 2009 14:14
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Stunbolt is incredibly overpowered and broken. I'm not a big fan of it at all. However, because of the way dice are eventually whomever is playing that abusive tactic is going to fail. I hit them extra hard for it when they do.
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Aug 12, 2009 17:19
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I glanced through this thread and didn't see it, so could someone go over the differences between 4e and 3rd? I'm a huge fan of 3rd edition, and although I own the 4e book I recall reading it and not being a fan. Rather than risk being a grognard, I figured I could ask you guys and get your thoughts on what makes 4e an improvement.
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Aug 12, 2009 22:47
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Blowupologist posted:I glanced through this thread and didn't see it, so could someone go over the differences between 4e and 3rd? I'm a huge fan of 3rd edition, and although I own the 4e book I recall reading it and not being a fan. Rather than risk being a grognard, I figured I could ask you guys and get your thoughts on what makes 4e an improvement. Balance, unification of core concepts, dropping of the dice pools, implimetation of the matrix, dropping of deckers. Uhh, everything?
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Aug 12, 2009 23:01
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Blowupologist posted:I glanced through this thread and didn't see it, so could someone go over the differences between 4e and 3rd? I'm a huge fan of 3rd edition, and although I own the 4e book I recall reading it and not being a fan. Rather than risk being a grognard, I figured I could ask you guys and get your thoughts on what makes 4e an improvement. One of the biggest changes from 3rd to 4th edition is the standardization of target numbers. Target numbers are now always 5, and it is the dice pool that is modified by weather, distance, or wound penalties. If you read the old Blackjack Shadowrun Archive ( http://web.archive.org/web/20000917151705/blackjack.dumpshock.com/) or played with the rule of 4 in 3rd this might not be a big difference, but it significantly changed how my table played. It may also have to do with changes in cyberpunk in general, but there seems to be a shift toward "the matrix" style runners over the old "pink mohawk" anarchists.
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Aug 13, 2009 00:29
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I've always got the feeling of professionals doing runs, and not mohawk wearin hooligins. The underworld has always felt professional and somewhat close knit. Hell, even if the corps and lonestar don't know who did the run everyone else seems to. That's why you keep your runs clean, and don't dick around. Reputation means a lot and you don't want your contacts to turn their backs on you.
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Aug 13, 2009 08:10
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Outcasts and freaks committing desperate criminal acts against megacorps with the kind of power that would make Nixon salivate only to stay afloat in a corrupt society that doesn't even identify them as citizens has always been one of my favorite themes in SR because there should always be a reason that a person becomes a shadowrunner. If you could have been a sec engineer or a PR mastermind or the next professor of thaumatulogical studies at MIT&T, then your character wouldn't need to do these crazy illegal things. Maybe that doesn't preclude you from having a good plan, but it does mean that there is something fundamentally wrong with you in the eyes of the world. And obviously that means a pink mohawk.
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Aug 13, 2009 09:10
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The General>> Speaking as a punk rocker and cyberpunk fan of many years, I got to say it's not mutually exclusive. Science Fiction is full of psychopaths, skinheads, punks and other countercultural people who through sheer grit, creativity and lots of bloody-minded guts pull through and stick it to the enemy - and in the case of people with pink mohawks, the enemy is often people who work for multinational corporations.
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Aug 14, 2009 14:20
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Its a good tactic and not really that unbalanced. There are a lot more cheaper ways to kill someone in the game than nacrojet filled capsule rounds. They also run the risk of killing who your fighting as stun damage overflows into physical damage. If it does become a problem chemseal up the guards armoured jackets. The way I see it is the players should be having fun, so its ok for them to win most of the time . For abusive things have a look at what ritual spellcasting can do if you can get enough mages together and anything to do with possession tradition magic users.
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Aug 16, 2009 06:37
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Let's not forget about blood mages. Blood Spirits are loving monsters.
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Aug 16, 2009 06:57
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How so? I've never really read up on them.
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Aug 16, 2009 23:44
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Bobfly posted:How so? I've never really read up on them. There used to be a trick with blood spirits(I'm hoping it was eratad): Blood spirits gained 1 Force whenever they killed something. So, you take your blood mage, summon and bind a force 1 blood spirit for a few hundred services, and then as it's first task, set it loose in a kindergarten. Force 50+ spirit for the cost of a Force 1 spirit? Yes please. Edit: I should add that a Great Dragon could get horribly raped by a spirit that strong, as would most the entire damned planet.
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Aug 17, 2009 06:16
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Doesn't work out quite like that for blood spirits. It can be read that way but its a bit far fetched. Essence drained cannot exceed twice its natural maximum. This we assume is when it was summoned as right at the start of the main book it says you cannon increase your essence attribute only decrease it. (SR4 page 73) Failing all that a F1 spirit only rolls 2 dice to try to drain essence. A large group of children or one grownup should finish it off nicely.
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Aug 17, 2009 08:52
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I think the big deterrent to getting some kind of power-leveled blood spirit is the fact that to drain essence, the target must be unresisting (either willing or restrained) and helpless for however long the drain takes (I think on the order of a minute or more). No doubt a high-level blood spirit or one with a little help could manage that, but a Force 1 just being unleashed on a kindergarten would just chase the kids around uselessly until a Lone Star mage could be called in to banish it.
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Aug 17, 2009 12:27
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McGravin posted:I think the big deterrent to getting some kind of power-leveled blood spirit is the fact that to drain essence, the target must be unresisting (either willing or restrained) and helpless for however long the drain takes (I think on the order of a minute or more). I don't know, I kind of like the idea of the "worlds cheapest bloodmage." Kidnapping children, needlessly torturing them, and draining their lives away to feed their Audrey blood spirit because they couldn't be bothered to put effort into the summoning but are willing to spend days committing relatively petty acts of cruelty. Hell, it sounds like a Shadowrun-themed episode of It's Always Sunny in Seattle.
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Aug 17, 2009 13:59
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LintMan posted:Doesn't work out quite like that for blood spirits. It can be read that way but its a bit far fetched. Not increasing Essence only applies to normal metahumans. As for the essence drained, a spirit normally has no maximum force/essence, and can in theory drain an infinite amount. I'll try and find the Dumpshock thread. The guy who did the build explained it a lot better than me. Edit: drat it, I can't find the thread. Someone here has to have better search-fu than me! MohawkSatan fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Aug 17, 2009 |
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Aug 17, 2009 18:37
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PierreTheMime posted:Kidnapping children, needlessly torturing them, and draining their lives away to feed their Audrey blood spirit because they couldn't be bothered to put effort into the summoning but are willing to spend days committing relatively petty acts of cruelty. However, I've clearly been playing Shadowrun far too long when I realize those acts are still "relatively" petty compared to some of the things my characters have done. Like derailing a maglev train into a small town and killing a few hundred people and then trying to shift the blame onto my teammates, or jury-rigging a tanker truck full of gasoline into a makeshift fuel-air bomb to wipe out a few dozen mafia thugs in their sleep.
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Aug 17, 2009 22:41
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McGravin posted:I'm not sure kidnapping, torturing, and murdering children is relatively petty. Yeah, petty in Shadowrun scales based on how much karma the group has accrued. As of right now in our game if you're not detonating an oricalcum-enriched nuclear bomb over an occupied mountain range then you're petty.  God I love Shadowrun.
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Aug 18, 2009 00:12
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Good thing you worked that out, then  Why did you have to nuke stuff again?
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Aug 18, 2009 13:00
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Tias posted:Good thing you worked that out, then Because the runners couldn't think of any other way to possibly stop their enemy who was about to tear a permanent gateway into the Nether using powerful ritual magic, allowing horrors to pour into the world. The villain, who was a free-spirit horror, terrified the bahjesus out of the team and they didn't want to combat him directly so they opted to assault the ritual site, cause a disruption and then set off the device once they had all evacuated. The bomb went off mostly as planned, though they have absolutely no way to tell whether the horror itself was destroyed. The ritual site--the top of Mt. Rainier (~50 miles outside of Seattle)--was blasted to bits and the ley-line point that the spirit was using was totally destroyed thanks to the oricalcum-enrichment. The explosion caused a massive eruption of the dormant volcano and sent tons of rock sailing in all directions, including the outskirts of Seattle itself. The horror, using intimidation and promises of power in their new "world," had convinced a lot of the Seattle underworld to rise up and create a city-crippling amount of havoc while the ritual was being performed. This was both to deny anyone from stopping the ritual and also to create an enormous amount of terror that the ritual was feeding off of. To top everything off, others loyal to the villain were conjuring up flurries of snow (it was December at the time) and strong winds that made it impossible for planes or helicopters to take off safely, cutting the city off from the rest of the UCAS for a few days. After the bomb, the city-wide terror campaign was slowly dealt as the impossibly bad weather faded and a lot of the criminals retreated back into hiding. The UCAS military entered Seattle shortly afterward and placed the entire area under martial law as everyone worked to bring their city back under control. After a month Seattle has mostly recovered but there are still massive investigations underway regarding both events. There has been major shifts within criminal organizations due to defections and betrayals from those who were siding with the horrors. The players shadowrunners were all discovered dead around the city within the first few days of military control. At least their cloned bodies were. On a side-note, the teams Satanic shaman had made a deal with a free fire spirit for initiation to ensure that the nuke went off. As the the team was escaping one of the players with expensive eye cyberware looked into the detonation and was able to make out a huge semi-humanoid shape emerging from the nuclear fire before winking out of vision. The shaman also tried to look but was permanently blinded (he knew it would happen but he just had to look because he loves bad ideas). The shaman later contacted the fire spirit to find that it was now an immensely powerful toxic-fire spirit and decided it was best to ignore the fact that he had created a horrible monster. PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Aug 18, 2009 |
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Aug 18, 2009 14:40
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I've always tried to avoid using nukes, both as a player and as a GM. It's been a part of the official Shadowrun canon for a few editions now that no nuclear bomb has worked correctly since the Awakening began (specifically the Lone Eagle Incident and the Cermak Blast, and there have been a few odd events at nuclear plants. Though they don't explicitly address it in the fiction or give reasons in the rulebooks, it seems that magic and nuclear reactions have mix in odd ways. Here's a page all about it, though I'm not sure if everything is from 100% canon sources: http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/amgic.htm Of course, just because I wouldn't include them in my campaigns doesn't mean another GM isn't totally free to make use of nukes.
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Aug 18, 2009 17:51
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Pierre>> Sounds epic. Where did the team procure the nuke?
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Aug 19, 2009 14:19
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Tias posted:Pierre>> Sounds epic. Where did the team procure the nuke? They bought the information regarding its location from a data-hoarding AI for 350000¥. It turned out that a cult of survivalists living out in what-was South Carolina had recovered a tactical warhead from an abandoned weapons cache and had taken over a large bunker system. The runners took it upon themselves to "liberate" the warhead from the cultists, sniping off a lot of their guard and then closing in to the bunker. With some hacking, they realized that the entrance to the bunker was heavily fortified and would be hellish to enter. The Satanist, who specializes in spirit possession, summoned an Earth spirit and had it possess a huge block of C12 they had bought and formed into a humanoid shape. Using its movement powers through the earth, the C12-golem dug itself to the top of the buried bunker and blew a hole into their compound. A large running battle ensued in which many players were *almost* killed and ended in a protracted humvee w/ mounted chaingun versus helicopter w/ chaingun battle. Eventually the team knocked the helicopter out of the air (with a few rounds from a railgun after their humvee was torn to pieces and flipped) and they captured the warhead from the leader. Another Satanist-shaman note: When they first started to assault the topside encampment, the shaman decided to summon a F6 firespirit to possess his own body for the battle. Critical glitch. Fire appears, forcibly possesses the shaman's body, and begins setting fire to everything in sight including the nearby non-combat spirit shaman. 8P of fire damage later, the spirit shaman knocks the satanist out with stunbolts to free the spirit and the team begins the fight with one offensive caster unconscious and their utility caster half-dead.
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Aug 19, 2009 15:13
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I recently checked out shadowrun because there seemed to be a lot of interest in it, expecting cyberpunk. The problem I have with it is the setting is a little hokey. It repeats the semi-racist "magical indian" meme. I can see corporations taking over the world but the explanation for magic becoming real and elves and trolls walking around stretches my suspension of disbelief a bit too much. In fact, I would say having these demihumans walking around in a cyberpunk setting is incredibly out of place.
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Aug 20, 2009 10:17
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Fire posted:I recently checked out shadowrun because there seemed to be a lot of interest in it, expecting cyberpunk. The problem I have with it is the setting is a little hokey. It repeats the semi-racist "magical indian" meme. I can see corporations taking over the world but the explanation for magic becoming real and elves and trolls walking around stretches my suspension of disbelief a bit too much. In fact, I would say having these demihumans walking around in a cyberpunk setting is incredibly out of place. The metahumans of shadowrun can allow for very nuanced discussions about wealth, power, and humanity in a kind of hyperbolic way. We all understand the reality of racism, sexism and bigotry, but shadowrun asks you to think about what living next door to a 300kg Troll might make the Average Joe Racist do in his spare time. It is another way that social stratification can occur and illuminates the way biases can be harmful or exploited (by the runners, of course). It really cuts to the heart of cyberpunk by asking what is the essence of a man; is it his flesh sold to make room for new hardware? His mind peeled back by drugs and immersed in cyberspace? His genes be they Dwarf, Elf or Ork? Or is there an inherent humanity that resides beyond mere survival instinct? Garl_Grimm fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Aug 20, 2009 |
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Aug 20, 2009 11:46
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Fire posted:I recently checked out shadowrun because there seemed to be a lot of interest in it, expecting cyberpunk. The problem I have with it is the setting is a little hokey. It repeats the semi-racist "magical indian" meme. I can see corporations taking over the world but the explanation for magic becoming real and elves and trolls walking around stretches my suspension of disbelief a bit too much. In fact, I would say having these demihumans walking around in a cyberpunk setting is incredibly out of place. To each their own, I suppose. I feel that the explanation for the reemergence of magic and metahuman races in Shadowrun is pretty well thought-out for a fantasy game. If you're coming into Shadowrun expecting solely Neuromancer-esque cyberpunk then you're going to come away disappointed because that's only a portion of the well-developed game system and world. Shadowrun is sold as a collection of ideas and a melting pot of old-style "swords 'n sorcery" fantasy and futuristic techno-fantasy. I'm really not sure how you can fault any game of imagination with having strange fantastic ideas that don't gel with a preconception based on previous experience with role-playing games. Being disappointed by being given what the game is marketed as is like loving steak, hearing that Steak 'N Shake has a really good steakburger and being disappointed that the steakburger not only contains ground steak but also bread, vegetables and condiments. Edit: I don't mean for that to come off sounding dickish. I can appreciate what you're saying but I don't agree. PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Aug 20, 2009 |
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Aug 20, 2009 14:55
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That said, even a willing suspension of disbelief at the presence of magic doesn't make things like the NAN timeline and population figures cited in earlier editions make one loving bit of sense.
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Aug 21, 2009 05:34
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PierreTheMime posted:To each their own, I suppose. I feel that the explanation for the reemergence of magic and metahuman races in Shadowrun is pretty well thought-out for a fantasy game. If you're coming into Shadowrun expecting solely Neuromancer-esque cyberpunk then you're going to come away disappointed because that's only a portion of the well-developed game system and world. Shadowrun is sold as a collection of ideas and a melting pot of old-style "swords 'n sorcery" fantasy and futuristic techno-fantasy. I'm really not sure how you can fault any game of imagination with having strange fantastic ideas that don't gel with a preconception based on previous experience with role-playing games. That's ok, me, I just consider that melting pot, mixing those genres together to just be a bit too hokey. The mullet hairstyles in the art work are a bit silly too.
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Aug 21, 2009 05:39
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The 80s. As I understand it the mullet, and wierd timeline came from the 80s and were never really refreshed, unlike the huge unwieldly technology/decking that was streamlined, shrunk and made wireless in response to the same happenings in our own time.
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Aug 24, 2009 19:12
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Yep. I believe they have a no-retcon policy towards pretty much the entire game universe, which on one hand I think is really cool and makes for a very comprehensive storyline since they don't have to reinvent everything every 10 years, but on the other hand does lead to some odd anachronisms in the game's world view as made especially apparent by the very 80s 'OMG Japan!' sentiment and China being pretty much non-existent on the economic scene. Not counting the Wuxing corporation, which I believe was written into power relatively recently. It's funny, actually, seeing how the game world changes to reflect the current and becoming a warped version of our own on a 60-year delay timer.
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Aug 24, 2009 23:17
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Bobfly posted:Yep. I believe they have a no-retcon policy towards pretty much the entire game universe, which on one hand I think is really cool and makes for a very comprehensive storyline since they don't have to reinvent everything every 10 years, but on the other hand does lead to some odd anachronisms in the game's world view as made especially apparent by the very 80s 'OMG Japan!' sentiment and China being pretty much non-existent on the economic scene. Not counting the Wuxing corporation, which I believe was written into power relatively recently. Don't forget all the Indian corporations that popped up in 5-7 years between 3rd Edition and 4th. However, from Shadows Of Asia, you can see them starting to updating their world to account for an emergent India.
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Aug 24, 2009 23:44
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So, running my first Shadowrun games, there is one thing I'm pondering how to handle: Paychecks. I have a model set up that looks functional, but I was wondering how other GMs handle it? What is a given job worth, and how does the reimbursement for a given level of challenge look, provided the team is not stiffed or overpaid by their employer?
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Aug 26, 2009 07:42
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Tias posted:So, running my first Shadowrun games, there is one thing I'm pondering how to handle: Paychecks. I have a model set up that looks functional, but I was wondering how other GMs handle it? What is a given job worth, and how does the reimbursement for a given level of challenge look, provided the team is not stiffed or overpaid by their employer? 10-20% less than the total cost of the run  You want enough to cover most expenses, but not enough to let things get out of hand. A couple new toys a run. It also depends on how frequent runs are in your game.
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Aug 26, 2009 08:02
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General rule is 5000 nuyen per point of karma. If the costs of the run are higher than expected, throw in a bit more cash.
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Aug 26, 2009 10:43
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Tias posted:So, running my first Shadowrun games, there is one thing I'm pondering how to handle: Paychecks. I have a model set up that looks functional, but I was wondering how other GMs handle it? What is a given job worth, and how does the reimbursement for a given level of challenge look, provided the team is not stiffed or overpaid by their employer? Generally I did somewhere between 15,000 to 20,000 per person for basic runs and then pay scaled based on the danger/visibility of the job and the teams overall experience/professional level. Towards the end they took a job that paid out 300,000 (split between 5) but I later also had them run quite a few jobs out of debt/obligations and paid heavier in karma. One run cost them 250,000 just to perform. The best thing to do is ask yourself "how much is Mr. Johnson willing to pay to have his goals met?" The legwork and other bits, unless insanely complicated, should be an assumed function of the job and wouldn't factor too much. If the players feel that they require more, that's where Negotiate comes into play. Optimally you'll have players who will take most jobs at face value. If you get picky players who refuse jobs based on their pay opt to increase the value slightly or have the Johnson promise them that there are rewards possible within the job itself that could be of benefit to them (this is a lie).
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Aug 26, 2009 11:03
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Christ, I just played SR4 in a long time and got dicked wtih 6500 nuyen for the whole group. This was after I rammed my armored Chrysler-Nissan into the equivalent of a prefabricated double-wide, the GM rules that it's stuck and the rest of the team burns my car. I'm so pissed now that I'm very much thinking of not playing in that friend's games anymore.
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Aug 29, 2009 09:31
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There's a fine line between removing resources to challenge your group and being a total dick, and the GM might have crossed it, but it doesn't sound like it's entirely his fault. The other players DID decide to burn it instead of try to figure out some way to get it out. I'd talk to him about it before you just up and quit, though. Maybe he thinks he's making things challenging as opposed to incredibly annoying.
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Aug 29, 2009 10:15
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FirstCongoWar posted:There's a fine line between removing resources to challenge your group and being a total dick, and the GM might have crossed it, but it doesn't sound like it's entirely his fault. The other players DID decide to burn it instead of try to figure out some way to get it out. I'm thinking of bring this up next week. I'm going to start running my Rifts game soon, and I somewhat forgave him using the base books character dice roll, which gave him a higher stats than expected, instead of the alternate method I had the other players use. I've been debating bringing it up to him, because my other players want me to have them reroll, even if we're about four-five sessions into the game. Their stats are more or less set in, his isn't. I really hate to go into tit-for-tat GMing, but it's burning me up inside. I may have completely misread how he was running this game, or if this is could be a plot point. But it still pretty much stings that, according to him, we're supposed to be noobs to shadowrunning, so much so that we can be tricked by a shady Johnson on our first run, even if we have an Olympic-class SMG sharpshooter on our team, who rolls 17 dice to hit and do damage with; an eco-terrorist shaman; a magic-using arcology survivor; and my Marine/Navy SEAL Delta Force/French Foreign Legion reject who is a physical adept and wheelwoman. ==I'm sorry if the following is this should be in the Best or Worst Gaming Experience, but it's related to Shadowrun== Of course, they say it's my own fault, and it is, because it's my character's nature to do poo poo like this. Maybe I should post this here to give some background: The run was to break in to a site under construction by an Aztechnology subsidiary, implant a virus onto the computers, and that's it. We're given large leeway in neutralizing security (i.e. killing everyone). The on-site security was one group of off-duty Lone Star cops, another group of former 'runners, and two security riggers, who could take control of the construction equipment and summon up a combat drone. Also, we have a short window of time because, since they're AZT, they'll have a response team with an Aguilar in the air and on site in three minutes following the first sign of trouble. We're given blueprints and readouts of the mainframe, blah blah blah. The target mainframe is located in a prefab building, constructed of drywall and corrugate, essentially an oversized double-wide trailer home. We have 10 hours to get this done. We do a quick recon of the area, astral perception detects a big shield or bond over the site, but it's little concern. I get in my position, hose the off-duty cops, the shaman casts chaotic world and manabolts on the remaining guards outside, the other two members storm the building and shoot it out with the runner-equivalent guards. We find out the mainframe is housed in a panic room and the rest of the structure is a flimsy decoy. The two runners inside the building are unable to penetrate the panic room's door with their magic or submachinegun, where the remaining guards, the riggers, and the mainframe are in. Meanwhile, the shaman is running inside to take cover from the construction cranes and the drone, exhausted from having to raise a spirit to fight off the cranes, while my character runs back to my car to drive the characters out. The runners are unsuccessful in their persuasion attempts to get the runners out. Since things are starting to get hairy outside, I decide to use my "thrill-seeking" disadvantage, and pull off a Dukes of Hazzard jump into the prefab. I blurt out for my comrades to "make a ramp" or "clear the way", but only one or two of them have their PANs on and are otherwise ignored. I do it anyway, using gravel piles around the site for lift, burn an edge point, make a 10 hit roll, hitting the doors (8/9 barriers) at full speed with my "Charger" (10/10 at 180m/turn), doing an ungodly amount of damage (20 hits), while the "Charger" takes nothing (half collision damage versus the "Charger"'s armor is cancelled out), and crushing two of the 'runner guards in the process. Everyone is in shock at what just happened. The GM then decides that the car is stuck and can't be moved, the floor doesn't suddenly collapse allowing it to escape, nothing. I can't even put it into reverse to go back out the front door. We get another initative roll, our subgunner savant mows down the two other guards, the mage goes looking for the slot, but ignores the two riggers. The drone moves in, and on a random roll by the GM, opens up with two LMGs on our drained shaman, almost killing her. The shaman's character becomes frustrated that he's being picked on, considering my vehicle is the bigger threat (it is), but since it's likely it can take it (it would've), he needed something to shoot at. The GM wouldn't let me or anyone else burn a point to save his character from getting plugged so I could've interrupted their turn. I still think he cheesed that roll, because getting shot with a full burst at close range, regardless if it's narrow or wide, is a death sentence. Anyway, I hose one of the riggers, the shaman flamethrowers other one, then starts working on my car, because the GM says we can't get it out and have to destory the evidence. The game session ends, we get that lovely deal which just pours salt into the wound. The big problem is that my Gearhead goes off that car, which not only is a waste of 5 BP from Resources (the "Charger" is the Chrysler-Nissan Patrol 1, which was the closest thing I could find to a muscle car) but another 5 BP from Positive Qualities.
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Aug 29, 2009 11:48
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Tias, don't forget your other options besides just regular old nuyen. One popular choice is corporate scrip, effectively nuyen that can only be spent at one corporation or its subsidiaries. Typically, the Johnson will only offer scrip if he doesn't mind the players knowing what corp he's representing, though I have had Johnsons somehow get their hands on scrip from another corp to pay the runners, possibly to intentionally deceive them in regards to who they're actually running for. Because scrip is more restrictive in where you can spend it (and possibly traceable by the megacorp), I'd offer maybe 50% more than basic nuyen. If the players don't want to spend their Renraku scrip on Renraku goodies, they might be able to find a scrip-to-scrip or scrip-to-nuyen exchange through their fixer or at the Crime Mall, but they're going to lose some total value in fees or price gouging. Don't forget goods and services. If the Johnson hears through the grape vine that the team is looking for a certain piece of equipment he can get his hands on, he might skip the scrip and go straight to offering them the item, especially if it's an item that is hard to get ahold of due to high availability rating. Don't feel constrained by the conventional, either; I have paid my group in real estate before. The Johnson might also say "I hear you're looking for a(n) [alphaware doc/ritual casting group/vehicle customization/technomancer group to join/new contact]. I just might be able to help you out there, if you can do me a favor." Finally, for jobs that don't require subtlety, usually "steal this item and bring it to me" type runs, the Johnson might say it's okay for the team to take whatever other valuables the find in the target location. The team wouldn't really consider this "pay", but it might better get their attention if the Johnson says something like "If you're already breaking in to steal X for me, you might consider taking some Y's for yourself, and I just happen to know a buyer who will pay well for a Y or two." Another option is "The job is to steal X for me, but it needs to look like a regular robbery, so grab everything that isn't nailed down and I'll hook you up with a good fence after the job." And just a note on "expenses". Standard operating procedure for most GMs/Johnsons is to agree on payment before the run, of course. So if the team comes back after a run whining about how much they spent on this run and then asks for more pay, the Johnson is going to consider that pretty unprofessional behavior. The Johnson will be more forgiving if the team is only asking for a little more, and if the price difference is to cover repair costs, medical bills, or legal fees. In any case, once a price has been agreed upon before the run, I would apply some dice pool penalties to any Negotiation tests made after the run, and a bigger penalty if a Negotiation test was made to agree on the original price in the first place.
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Aug 29, 2009 15:49
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