|
Ziggy Tsardust posted:Because the show with the higher ratings will be seen to be doing better. We want WWE to be forced to recognise Smackdown as the better show so their lovely Raw booking will go away. Hahaha no it won't. If Smackdown got higher ratings than Raw they wouldnt change Raw they would just complain about the fans being dumb. Raw is always going to be #1.
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2009 14:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 22:58 |
|
|
triplexpac posted:It comes from the Monday Night Wars, I think. Bischoff was obsessed over Nitro's ratings beating Raw, and that attitude has carried over. Vince even said on the Monday Night Wars dvd that he really didn't care that much about ratings until Nitro came along. Also, it's the only way that smarks can justify their favorite wrestlers/promotions because wrestling is fake.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2009 16:58
|
|
|
HorseHeadBed posted:Why are wrestling fans so obsessed with TV ratings and buy-rates? I can understand the people working in the companies having an interest, but why is there this slavish attention to it from people it doesn't affect in the slightest? It highlights poor decision-making when the companies do poo poo that's clearly contrary to their business interests.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2009 17:15
|
|
|
Wrestling fans caring about a company's business decisions is something that came with the internet and was probably never discussed by smarks prior to message boards. The dirtsheets were a nice way to get a peek backstage, but I doubt anyone argued over how they should be promoting a particular show. It is a horrible, horrible thing. Especially when the majority of us have no experience running a promotion.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2009 19:05
|
|
|
CombineThresher posted:Also, it's the only way that smarks can justify their favorite wrestlers/promotions because wrestling is fake. IT'S STILL REAL TO ME, DAMMIT!
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2009 19:06
|
|
|
Judakel posted:Wrestling fans caring about a company's business decisions is something that came with the internet and was probably never discussed by smarks prior to message boards. The dirtsheets were a nice way to get a peek backstage, but I doubt anyone argued over how they should be promoting a particular show. It is a horrible, horrible thing. Especially when the majority of us have no experience running a promotion. Speak for yourself, I've been playing EWR since EWR Deluxe 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2009 19:12
|
|
|
Hudson posted:I have a WCW question. I'm watching the first three hour Nitro episode on WWE 24/7. It starts with them hyping up this clip from the Souled Out PPV that will make you just oh so sick to your stomach. Of course I'm talking about Kevin Nash 'Jack-Knife Power Bombing' The Giant. To me that power bomb looked like a botch as Nash just held onto The Giant too long, plus Nash falls over after it landed. Everyone is playing it like The Giant got dropped on his head and he is really messed up. It looks like his landed on his shoulders and gently at that. According to Nash he was told to go out and powerbomb the Giant despite just returning from injury and telling the bookers that he wasn't ready in anyway to lift a huge guy like that. You can kinda see it in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOe9H4gxYe0 his legs aren't entirely with him through the move so basically just lets go of him halfway through. And yes, this turned into what everyone said about powerbombs being banned, I can't remember if it was just the Jackknife powerbomb they banned or powerbombs in general. Because obviously the one where the guy sort of throws you away on your back is more devastating than Vader folding you in half.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2009 20:57
|
|
|
Is Abdullah the Butcher in the Hall of Fame yet? If not, he deserves to me. I'd add Ivan Koloff and Bruiser Brody to that list too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 05:51
|
|
|
What were the notable feuds and storylines of pre-World Champion Ric Flair? Both his DVDs skip right to his first title run, and I was always interested in the matches and angles Flair had that made him a contender in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 06:04
|
|
|
Wikipedia says Ricky Steamboat, Roddy Piper, Mr. Wrestling II, Jimmy Snuka, Greg Valentine, and Buddy Rogers. Ax is lazy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 06:18
|
|
|
Judakel posted:Wikipedia says Ricky Steamboat, Roddy Piper, Mr. Wrestling II, Jimmy Snuka, Greg Valentine, and Buddy Rogers. Ax is lazy. I have been two weeks without a probation and thats a good run for me so I will be very polite but I wanted more information than a paragraph on wikipedia.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 06:25
|
|
|
Psychlone posted:Is Abdullah the Butcher in the Hall of Fame yet? If not, he deserves to me. I'd add Ivan Koloff and Bruiser Brody to that list too. I can't see Brody or Abby ever getting in, but Ivan Koloff is a former world champion, so he'll probably get inducted sooner or later.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 06:29
|
|
|
Plus, and this is kinda hosed up but, Brody's story kinda makes the business look sleazy. Look I'm a progressive guy but "got stabbed in Puerto Rico" probably doesn't send the message Vince wants to send.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 06:43
|
|
|
Karmine posted:Plus, and this is kinda hosed up but, Brody's story kinda makes the business look sleazy. I dunno Carlito is a heel right now
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 07:04
|
|
|
"I stick a knife in the stomach, of people who don't want to be cool."
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 07:06
|
|
|
Axissillian posted:I dunno Carlito is a heel right now Yes, but Primo is a face.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 07:06
|
|
|
Iskanderson posted:"I stick a knife in the stomach, of people who don't want to be cool." Remember, this was an actual 2004 Smackdown angle with John Cena
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 07:07
|
|
|
Karmine posted:Plus, and this is kinda hosed up but, Brody's story kinda makes the business look sleazy. Yeah, good point. Granted, the message Vince wants to send changes every month or so, and even their sugarcoated WCCW DVD was full of talented guys ODing or killing themselves, but Brody's death was too sad and divisive for him to make it in. With Abby, I don't think Vince gives a poo poo about him, honestly. Has Vince ever shown interest in him?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 07:27
|
|
|
Axissillian posted:Remember, this was an actual 2004 Smackdown angle with John Cena Jesus stabbed John Cena so he could film "The Marine" it's all Jesus's fault
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 08:07
|
|
|
I only got back into WWE last year, and I'm noticing Raw is really sucking right now. Within this decade, what other time periods in Raw's history can compare in awfulness to this "Guest GM Era"?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 09:52
|
|
|
Kerck Pnameless posted:I only got back into WWE last year, and I'm noticing Raw is really sucking right now. Within this decade, what other time periods in Raw's history can compare in awfulness to this "Guest GM Era"? 02-03.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 10:16
|
|
|
grody but still def posted:02-03. Especially late 2002- early 2003 - the HHH/Kane, HHH/Steiner and HHH/Nash feuds were a thousand times more  than the never ending HHH/HBK/Cena/Orton and Legacy incest. At least the matches now aren't completely awful - hell, I actually loved the Summerslam DX/Legacy match.Like now, it was Smackdown that provided the awesome with the SD Six (Angle, Benoit, Los Guerreros, Edge, Rey Mysterio). Smackdown's probably more stacked now - there's probably only one or two workrate disasters (Khali is the only one I can think of - and they're actually making him interesting as a face). Smackdown has or has had since the draft: Main eventers: Punk, Undertaker, Jeff Hardy (until he left), Edge (until he got injured) Upper midcard: Morrison, Kane, Matt Hardy, Khali, Jericho, Rey, Dolph Ziggler Lower midcard: Finlay, Cryme Tyme, Hart Dynasty, Mike Knox, R-Truth, Drew McIntyre Jobbers: local talent plus Charlie Haas and Jesse They've even had a decently paced and entertaining Teddy Long/Vince storyline. The only minus is probably the divas but they've at least managed to pair Maria and Eve with Ziggler and Cryme Tyme respectively and make both of them more interesting. The announcing is fine: JR's grizzled announcing veteran and Grish's enthusiasm gel well. Raw is also pretty top heavy but there's no direction: Main eventers: Orton, Batista (when he comes back), John Cena, HBK, HHH Upper midcard: Dibiase/Rhodes, Mark Henry, MVP, Kofi, Big Show Lower midcard (mostly interchangeable with upper midcard): Carlito, Masters, Bourne, Swagger, Miz Jobbers/comedy acts: Santino, Primo, Hornswoggle, Chavo The divas are the divas. There's no Trish or Lita figure that's saving the division right now. There's no excuse why Raw can't be as cleanly written as Smackdown. The guest host gimmick is a good one and is probably the only thing that's saved Raw from being a complete atrocity. The best hosts either furthered a storyline (Dusty, Dibiase, Batista) or had so much charisma and/or enthusiasm that it rubbed off on others (Bob Barker, Freddie Prince, Seth Green and especially Shaq - Shaq would be a perfect fit in the world of pro wrestling). The announcing is the worst in the WWE - shut the gently caress up for Cole and Lawler needs to be a heel commentator or retire/ As for ECW, I kinda like the dynamic there, there's Christian, Dreamer and then everyone else is at roughly equal footing except for the feud of the moment (like Regal/Zeke/Kozlov now). Christian is probably one of the only everyman wrestlers in the WWE right now - he can do comedy, serious, he can wrestle different styles - only rivaled by Jericho - and he can do it all great. Striker and Josh Matthews have a buddy-buddy relationship and Matt Striker's wrestling logic and knowledge plus his pop culture references are definitely a plus. The signings of Danielson and Nigel are promising - I think Nigel ends up on the SD midcard and assume a Knox/Finlay role and Bryan Danielson gets a rocket strapped to his rear end on ECW and makes his mark quickly (a la Bourne/Punk/Swagger). nyratk1 fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Sep 10, 2009 |
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 13:01
|
|
|
Axissillian posted:I have been two weeks without a probation and thats a good run for me so I will be very polite but I wanted more information than a paragraph on wikipedia. The Piper and Valentine feuds were both over the US Title, if I remember right. The Piper feud was long and very bloody. I think they brought it up when Piper came back in the late days of WCW.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 21:02
|
|
|
Kerck Pnameless posted:I only got back into WWE last year, and I'm noticing Raw is really sucking right now. Within this decade, what other time periods in Raw's history can compare in awfulness to this "Guest GM Era"? John Cena Moon-Push Era, '05-'07. 2005: Feuds with Kurt Angle. This was the start of John Cena getting terrible crowd reactions. At the time, Kurt Angle was better than John Cena any day of the week in just about every way, and everyone knew it, and yet the entire feud was Angle jobbing for Cena, who cut terrible promos in the mean-time describing how Angle was a ham sandwich. 2006: New Year's Revolution. Second shittiest elimination chamber ever, followed by Edge winning by MITB shenanigans after TWO spears, just so no one could forget that no mortal can beat John Cena in a fair, one-on-one match. Wrestlemania 22: WWE begins propagandizing Cena's lovely crowd reactions as "He sure is controversial!" rather than "He sure is a lovely babyface!" After Mania, they run Edge v. Triple H v. Cena, with such brilliant angles as "We'll have one of them be a special guest referee for three different matches and do the same exact finish with different people in each role, three weeks in a row!" DX eventually starts up again, but if you were expecting any good feuds, matches, or really anything worth remembering, well, WWE's message to you was to go gently caress yourself. DX buries absolutely everyone they step in the ring with, Triple H isn't funny at all, and they spend most of their time wrestling cheerleaders. Really. DX unofficially breaks up when Triple H blows his second quad. ECW is re-introduced as a TV show with whatever old ECW guys left that can still walk/aren't dead/contracted to TNA. Few if any of them can really work, and Paul and Vince fight over the book, resulting in the worst WWE PPV of this decade by far, December 2 Dismember. Gradually almost all of them, including Heyman, are fired. Eventually WWE rights the ship on this, but it takes a while. Ric Flair v. Mick Foley finally happens and it totally sucks. In fact Mick Foley in general totally sucks by this point and eventually leaves WWE to retire forever and never work anywhere else ever again. Bobby Lashley appears! He has the mic skills of an angry ten-year old and his entire gimmick is that he's a less-entertaining Brock Lesnar. He immediately gets shoved down everyone's throat Cena-style, which is pretty horrible because Cena at this point is awful but still better than Lashley. Like almost everyone they give a god-push with less than a year in the business, he quits. In the mean-time he gets into an angle where he's playing second banana to Donald Trump for a Wrestlemania storyline. This angle kicked off with a fake Rosie O'Donnell wrestling a fake Donald Trump that everyone watching, including the crowd, took a gigantic monster poo poo on--signaling what else was in store. Donald Trump behaves the entire time like he'd rather be asleep than on a wrestling show, and out of all the guest stars and Wrestlemania cameos they've had in the last three years, is easily the worst. John Cena loses to Shawn Michaels at Mania 23. Oh wait, I'm sorry, that's what should have happened. Instead John Cena wins and people flood out of the building because he's terrible and they're genuinely sick of him. Then he has a bunch of lovely feuds with SEVEN FOOT TALL BAH-GAWD MONSTERS and Britney Spears' ex-boyfriend. Chris Benoit loses his poo poo completely, etc. WWE Wellness starts up and ravages the locker room with liver enzyme sit-outs and drug suspensions, stalling a good deal of careers. Magically, no one in the main event ever gets suspended. WWE starts producing god-awful movies that can generally only be enjoyed ironically at best. To promote them, they run the same ads for them on Raw every thirty seconds and make sure to run ads on the wall of every backstage skit they can. There's also a bunch of boring terrible poo poo on Smackdown but this post is about Raw, so yeah. There's probably some other unwatchable garbage I'm forgetting, especially in 2007, which was when my interest in WWE after years of being hosed with, not to mention Benoit, finally started nosediving. Right now Randy Orton and Chris Jericho are the only halfway interesting things on the entire Raw show.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 22:19
|
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:Randy Orton --------- interesting This man has bored me more than ever this year. I like him but holy poo poo I can't get into anything he does lately.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 22:29
|
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:DX eventually starts up again, but if you were expecting any good feuds, matches, or really anything worth remembering, well, WWE's message to you was to go gently caress yourself. DX buries absolutely everyone they step in the ring with, Triple H isn't funny at all, and they spend most of their time wrestling cheerleaders. Really. DX unofficially breaks up when Triple H blows his second quad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 22:41
|
|
|
Zanael posted:Excuse me but Rated RKO. Plus Triple H already blew two quads.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 22:45
|
|
|
Strenuous Manflurry posted:Plus Triple H already blew two quads. So how many times has Triple H blown his quads then?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2009 23:55
|
|
|
An Taoiseach posted:So how many times has Triple H blown his quads then? He has one blow for each quad. I think.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2009 00:06
|
|
|
OTM, thanks for the history post you wrote. Very informative. I like Cena, but when I really look at it, its mostly due to two things: a) RVD vs John Cena b) 12 Rounds I loved the way the crowd reacted in that match and Cena did not care. I think he even had a bit more step in his legs that way. At least it seemed to me he did. And I genuinely liked 12 rounds. I've watched it four times already and it gets a bit better every time I watch it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2009 01:06
|
|
|
Strenuous Manflurry posted:He has one blow for each quad. His first quad injury occurred right at the start of the Two-Man Power Trip, in a tag match against ... Jericho and Benoit? I remember it happening as he ran into the ring, and suddenly collapsed. That was the time he ripped it completely off the bone. The second was at New Year's Revolution 2007, when he ripped it during that DX/Rated RKO match. Those are his only two major quadriceps injuries, as I recall.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2009 01:13
|
|
|
Timby posted:His first quad injury occurred right at the start of the Two-Man Power Trip, in a tag match against ... Jericho and Benoit? I remember it happening as he ran into the ring, and suddenly collapsed. That was the time he ripped it completely off the bone. Yeah if there's a third quad tear, I haven't heard of it. quote:This man has bored me more than ever this year. I generally only watch PPVs, if that. I enjoyed Orton at Summerslam. Only if I have friends over and we're bored do I watch Raw. What I notice when I do watch is that Randy Orton is probably the second most interesting thing going on besides Chris Jericho. I guess Orton is my favorite wrestler in general right now, that's how I'd explain it. Also, a heel that wins matches. quote:Excuse me but Rated RKO. If they had started with Rated RKO right away instead of six months of garbage angles something better might have happened. I got a sense they were kinda getting to that right when Triple H went out again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2009 03:36
|
|
|
Swagger's plenty talented, but it's impossible to get over as lisping without being labeled, at some level, as a homosexual. And I don't like it particularly when gay=heel. Actually, I don't think pro wrestling is really able to deal with homosexuality at any level beyond mockable stereotype (Billy and Chuck was less than a half decade ago).
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2009 05:28
|
|
|
Justice Grieves posted:Swagger's plenty talented, but it's impossible to get over as lisping without being labeled, at some level, as a homosexual. And I don't like it particularly when gay=heel. Actually, I don't think pro wrestling is really able to deal with homosexuality at any level beyond mockable stereotype (Billy and Chuck was less than a half decade ago). ric flair and dusty rhodes would like to disagree
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2009 06:30
|
|
|
Is there a way to watch the Legends of Wrestling Roundtables without having wwe 24/7? These things sound awesome, and I'd like to watch them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2009 07:04
|
|
|
Capsaicin posted:Is there a way to watch the Legends of Wrestling Roundtables without having wwe 24/7? These things sound awesome, and I'd like to watch them. They're 8 bux at Best Buy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2009 07:10
|
|
|
projecthalaxy posted:They're 8 bux at Best Buy. There's only 6 out of the 20 episodes out on DVD 
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2009 07:15
|
|
|
Some are on Youtube, or maybe some were. They get taken down all too quickly. However, after a look at youtube, I found this fellow's page. http://www.youtube.com/user/WWETNAwrestlingfan15 He seems to have a couple uploaded. Really, search youtube, dailymotion, metacafe, and all the usual suspects and you should find a couple. It's a drat shame Michael Hayes is so obnoxious on these, though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2009 07:34
|
|
|
HulkaMatt posted:This man has bored me more than ever this year.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2009 09:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 22:58 |
|
|
Kerck Pnameless posted:Orton and Triple H are like Cole and Lawler. They can be good when working with others but put them together and they become abysmal. I dunno, their encounters before this year usually were better - No Mercy 07 and kinda Judgment Day 08. But even then, both of them had better matchups with other wrestlers.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2009 13:32
|
|