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Gripen5 posted:Outside of the increase in the cigarette tax and the AIG bonus taxes, has taxes even changed at all in the last 8 months? I don't see how a single thing that grumpy Gramps brings up has anything to do with Obama other than that Ashely campaigned for him and then decided to shove it in her relatives' faces that he won. That's the underlying message right there. If you want gramps to help, you have to beleive what he believes, even if he is a bit racist and senile.
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Sep 17, 2009 18:29
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Gripen5 posted:Outside of the increase in the cigarette tax and the AIG bonus taxes, has taxes even changed at all in the last 8 months? I don't see how a single thing that grumpy Gramps brings up has anything to do with Obama other than that Ashely campaigned for him and then decided to shove it in her relatives' faces that he won. Did the AIG bonus tax actually pass? I thought it died in the Senate
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Sep 17, 2009 18:32
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Hey sure Bush owns, whatever. Now gimme some money gramps.
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Sep 17, 2009 18:52
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Wanna disown that grandpa
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Sep 17, 2009 20:27
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I'm sure he identifies with poor grandpa seeing what a miserable uninformed poo poo he is. I don't know exactly what he's worth but it's probably around 5 million, he lives off investment income and the money from the company I work for. He was bitching to me a few days ago about how much Obama has hosed up the economy and maybe 2 minutes later was talking about how he's up 88k in the market. He was bitching about the proposed top rate tax increase and over the next few minutes of talking to him I discovered he not only did not know how tax brackets worked he didn't know what they were. He thought the 36-39.6% rate increase affacted everyone from $1 a year income up. The money he has? It's not going to his kids, he's donating it to the University of Miami. Well he was until he found out he wasn't getting enough interest off the donation or something, I do't know or care about the details of how that worked. One kid doesn't talk to him at all, the other a couple times a year. He moved away from florida and the few friends he has because his country club was being overrun by jews. So he moved to middle of nowewhere, AZ. Part of job has become listening to him ramble every day for 20-30 minutes. I drift back and forth between feeling sorry for him since he's alone and has nobody to talk to then he starts talking about them blacks being too stupid to know otherwise by voting against their self interests because they voted for Obama and I remember he's alone because nobody can stand listening to him for more than a few minutes. He has 500 reasons why Obama is destroying the country and why he needs to go stock up on canned soup and ammo but 3 years ago he stormed out of his barbershop that he went to for ten years never to return because they had MSNBC on the TV and someone said something bad about Bush. I'm trying to quit smoking but I need 3 every morning just to make it through the daily phone call with him.
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Sep 17, 2009 22:55
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Toasticle posted:letter from grandpa That poor cousin who can't take his yearly trips to Greenland anymore. 
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Sep 18, 2009 02:20
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It's always hella depressing how the person that represents the Democrats spends money like crazy for frivolous things and is never something like a single mother who works 2 jobs to make less than $20k and still struggles to support her kids because growing up she was in the same situation and as a result couldn't make it to college. But you know that never happens.
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Sep 18, 2009 14:48
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Gripen5 posted:Outside of the increase in the cigarette tax and the AIG bonus taxes, has taxes even changed at all in the last 8 months? I don't see how a single thing that grumpy Gramps brings up has anything to do with Obama other than that Ashely campaigned for him and then decided to shove it in her relatives' faces that he won. I'm laughing at the "flashy hybrid car" bit for reasons that are obvious to anybody who's seen one.
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Sep 18, 2009 18:43
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CombineThresher posted:I'm laughing at the "flashy hybrid car" bit for reasons that are obvious to anybody who's seen one. In gramps' mind, "flashy hybrid car" probably brings up vivid images of those things from Back to the Future 3.
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Sep 18, 2009 18:59
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Who the gently caress asks their grandparents for money? Mine certainly don't have any extra, most what they do get goes towards medical bills. Shouldn't she be asking her folks?
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Sep 19, 2009 07:28
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Armyman25 posted:Who the gently caress asks their grandparents for money? Mine certainly don't have any extra, most what they do get goes towards medical bills. One of the important "morals" of the story is likely the "generation gap," because kids today... they don't "get it." I'm sure I could have used more quotation marks, but I already feel dirty from using so many.
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Sep 19, 2009 07:42
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Armyman25 posted:Who the gently caress asks their grandparents for money? Mine certainly don't have any extra, most what they do get goes towards medical bills. Geez, you mean you don't have family money? The very idea! Guess your ancestors should have bootstrapped a little better!
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Sep 19, 2009 15:07
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dumb brunette posted:That poor cousin who can't take his yearly trips to Greenland anymore. To survey polar bears - clearly a liberal eco-hippie who's also only getting by with the help of good old, hard working grandpa. Kind of weird they threw skydiving in there though - I guess when a sport isn't about teams of sweaty guys brutalizing each other or large engines it must be liberal or something.
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Sep 20, 2009 11:38
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Toasticle posted:Got this one over the weekend from my boss. I guess this is the new version of the "welcome to the republican party I revised the message to make it more concise and less subtle: quote:Maybe this will wake some of the younger folks up. This is really hitting the nail on the head as far as I am concerned. Matlock fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Sep 21, 2009 |
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Sep 21, 2009 02:07
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publicblast posted:Good thing there were no payroll taxes before Obama took office. Them sure was the good ol' days. 
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Sep 21, 2009 17:06
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Grandpa probably has his money tied up with some Nigerians that hooked him up with a tax haven in response to Obama winning the election. He could get the money back, but it would cost an upfront fee that he dosen't have right now.
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Sep 21, 2009 17:31
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RagnarokAngel posted:It's always hella depressing how the person that represents the Democrats spends money like crazy for frivolous things and is never something like a single mother who works 2 jobs to make less than $20k and still struggles to support her kids because growing up she was in the same situation and as a result couldn't make it to college. Maybe she'd have more grocery money if she stopped skydiving. Simple math, really.
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Sep 21, 2009 23:20
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Habibi posted:I've found, in my experience, that often the best response when people degenerate into spewing, "Hurr the government isn't the solution it's always the problem," is to backhand the person across the face and yell, "Hey moron! - Government was created in the first place specifically to be the solution to a whole host of problems." Hahaha, yes, I agree. Here's the latest from the nut factory: quote:To fulfill a mandate? What mandate? I thought it was to bring honesty and transparency to government? If the mandate is fascism, then yes, he is doing it. edit: also to note, he's a 26 year old white dude. IM OPPRESSED BY THE FASCIST Bozz fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Sep 22, 2009 |
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Sep 22, 2009 15:38
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Bozz posted:edit: also to note, he's a 26 year old white dude. IM OPPRESSED BY THE FASCIST I'm quite curious how much he gets paid.
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Sep 22, 2009 16:08
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Ortsacras posted:I'm quite curious how much he gets paid. $12 an hour working at a job where he cooks nuts.
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Sep 22, 2009 16:32
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Bozz posted:$12 an hour working at a job where he cooks nuts. It's uncanny.
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Sep 22, 2009 16:44
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Ortsacras posted:It's uncanny. He also has a felony drug dealing conviction. The amount of self delusion is incredible.
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Sep 22, 2009 17:04
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Bozz posted:He also has a felony drug dealing conviction. Buy him some bootstraps for his birthday - I'm sure he'll appreciate the good wishes.
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Sep 22, 2009 17:12
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Has anyone gotten the e-mail going around about the 9-12-09 "protests" in D.C.? I am currently embattled in a long e-mail discussion with my dad thanks to me replying to every person forwarded this e-mail that the commentary with each picture is a load of poo poo. Thought you guys might be interested in this refutation... he is copy/pasting some of the things I said and then arguing against them, my replies to his replies are bolded. Unfortunately, as impressed as I am with the argument I've put together (typically I have a hard time explaining everything I've seen and the knowledge I've amassed from these forums and elsewhere) I think he'll just find a way not to listen.  Unfortunately for you, I've been debating in this format of bulletpoint and reply since I was sixteen. My replies will be in bold.) oh baby this one may get ugly so put on your seat belts. I am making this reply because I want some to educate me. if you know what you are talking about it should be very easy... we are just going to do the math, keeping personal opinion out of it That's weird, this e-mail is quite devoid of mathematics and chock full of personal opinion. Nothing wrong with that but you shouldn't claim otherwise. lets start by asking the simple questions 1. if health care was free how many more times would you ( or anybody else as far as that goes) go to the doctor , emergancy room or ask for any medical attention???/ if it were free I guarantee everybody would be going to the doctor / receive&n bsp; more medical care than they curently do. I know I would ,,, but then again if you knew how infrequent I have gone the last 25 years you would be very surprised. No, I wouldn't be surprised. Im figuring , just a pure ball park guess between 10 and 50% more medical attention would have to be paid for, just from the fact they it was offered for free. are we going to be able to reduce the expenses of each proceedure by upto 50% There is no math here, you're "ballparking" it. Absolutely, especially at first, the amount of medical care being received would spike. What does that tell you? People want care and cannot receive it in the richest country in the world. 2. I would like to know where you got these "hard statistics" from.... because simple supply and demand would argue differently, and nobody can argue supply and demand, so I 20would like to see these hard statistics. You cannot just invoke supply and demand as a phrase and that's that, but it's obvious you don't quite understand how insurance works. The larger the risk pool you have, the more money you have available to effectively treat the sick; to pay out. As it is now, there are thousands of healthcare providers with smaller, fragmented risk pools. This means it is much less feasible to cover the sick when they need it -- and since right now the healthcare system's goal is financial gain and not helping the infirm, this means healthcare companies have a vested interest in collecting from you when you're healthy, and dropping you for some technicality when it's time to pay. 3. Im not sure how at the beginning of a paragraph someone can say "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see." and then turn around later in the same paragraph say " hard statistics" I would like to see them not just hear about them, remember dont believe anything I hear ????? wow that was such a contradicting paragraph that i'm still in a daze. Sorry, didn't know I was writing a dissertation in these e-mails... only now can I include more detail as every e-mail before this was written on my cell phone. I suspect any sources I include will not be satisfactory for you for some reason, anyway, but I'll include them. You want some hard statistics with sources -- here you go. * The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system. Source: Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences * * In 2006, the percentage of Americans without health insurance was 15.8%, or approximately 47 million uninsured people. Source: US Census Bureau * * Among the 84.2% with health insurance in 2006, coverage was provided through an employer 59.7%, purchased individually 9.1%, and 27.0% was government funded (Medicare, Medicaid, Military). (There is some overlap in coverage figures.) Source: US Census Bureau * * The primary reason given for lack of health insurance coverage in 2005 was cost (more than 50%), lost job or a change in employment (24%), Medicaid benefits stopped (10%), ineligibility for family insurance coverage due to age or leaving school (8%). Source: National Center for Health Statistics * * More than 40 million adults stated that they needed but did not receive one or more of these health services (medical care, prescription medicines, mental health care, dental care, or eyeglasses) in 2005 because they could not afford it. Source: National Center for Health Statistics * * Medicaid, which accounted for 12.9% of health care coverage in 2006, is a health insurance program jointly funded by the federal and state governments to provide health care for qualifying low-income individuals. Source: US Census Bureau * * Medicare, a federally funded health insurance program that covers the health care of most individuals 65 years of age and over and disabled persons, accounted for 13.6% of health care coverage in 2006. Source: US Census Bureau * * Medicare operates with 3% overhead, non-profit insurance 16% overhead, and private (for-profit) insurance 26% overhead. Source: Journal of American Medicine 2007 * In 2005, personal health care expenditur es were paid by private health insurance 36%, federal government 35%, state and local governments 11% , and out-of-pocket payments 15%. Source: National Center for Health Statistics * * The United States spends twice as much on health care per capita ($7,129) than any other country . . . and spending continues to increase. In 2005, the national health care expenditures totaled $2 trillion. Source: National Center for Health Statistic * * 75% of all health care dollars are spent on patients with one or more chronic conditions, many of which can be prevented, including diabetes, obesity, heart disease, lung disease, high blood pressure, and cancer. Source: Health Affairs * * From 2000 to 2006, overall inflation has increased 3.5%, wages have increased 3.8%, and health care premiums have increased 87%. Source: Kaiser Family Foundation * The average family health insurance premium, provided through an employer health benefit program, was $11,480 in 2006. Employees paid an average of $2,973 towards the premium amount. Source: Kaiser Family Foundation * * The United States ranks 43rd in lowest i nfant mortality rate, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990. Singapore has the lowest rate with 2.3 deaths per 1000 live births, while the United States has a rate of 6.3 deaths per 1000 live births. Some of the other 42 nations that have a lower infant mortality rate than the US include Hong Kong, Slovenia, and Cuba. Source: CIA Factbook (2008) * * Approximately 30,000 infants die in the United States each year. The infant mortality rate, which is the risk of death during the first year of life, is related to the underlying health of the mother, public health practices, socioeconomic conditions, and availability and use of appropriate health care for infants and pregnant women. Sources: CDC and National Center for Health Statistics * * Life expectancy at birth in the US is an average of 78.14 years, which ranks 47th in highest total life expectancy compared to other countries. Source: CIA Factbook (2008) * * About half of the bankruptcy filings in the United States are due to medical expenses. Source: Health Affairs Journal 2005 and if anybody wants a simple lesson ; on how supply and demand works. just ask yourself how many more times would you do something if it cost less??? you pick the activity that you like doing and if you have an open mind you will quickly learn the basics about supply and demand. As you can see, we have the supply to meet the demand just like every other industrialized nation. The private health sector are simply keeping the money for themselves. It's alright to admit that you're wrong on this -- decades of propaganda have been disseminated to fool you into thinking that what is happening in regards to healthcare in this country is somehow for your benefit. 4 "hijacked by people who do nothing but scream louder than the next guy" are you implying that only one party does that, only one group of people do that. I only started paying attention to politics in 88 and gradually have been paying more attention each election especially the last few, and even more and more between election and nothing gets my go at more than when One side complains about something the other side did and their own team does the same thing. are you kidding me???? When did I say anything about parties doing this? You are so entrenched in the two party system, so convinced by Fox News pundits that it's "us vs. them" that you are viewing everything I say as being on the Democrats' side. I'm on the side of whoever fixes the problems that are plaguing millions of Americans -- the Democrats appeal to that but when push comes to shove, such as with the current failure of a bill Baucus is trying to push through, they serve the lobbyists and private interests over the people 9 times out of 10. I am not a Democrat. I will say that the Republican party has been hijacked over the last few decades by Cheney/Rumsfeld and yes, that party is currently doing the most damage to our country. Doesn't mean I think Democrats have done a drat thing about it. 5. "People out there are dying of preventable and treatable illnesses" that was a dusey ( did I speel that right). illness,,,, man that makes it sound like someones got a cold and if they only had 75$ for the office call they could have been given a $4 prescription and they would have been alive today. Im just letting you know how using the right words makes things sound a certain way. "Using the right words"? You're looking at the word "illness" that way -- why, I have no idea. ill;ness Show Spelled Pronunciation [il-nis] –noun 1. unhealthy condition; poor health; indisposition; sickness. 2. Obsolete. wickedness. Synonyms: 1. ailment, affliction, infirmity. yes Im sure they are people out there dying because they couldnt afford a 500,000$ treatment/operation or what ever else they may have needed to combat this known problem. but I want to see the line of people who are willing to pay for this ( what ever it is that is needed). lets not fool ourselve it is all about the almighty dollar, people dont work for fun, doctors dont take the risks, spend the money and time to get educated and build a practice just because they want to help people, go ahead and take away the money and we will see how many doctors want to become doctors, and since we are on it how many teachers will become teachers, people can try to create an image but all the smart people know it is about the money, if it wasnt that would work moany more hour than they currently do. everybody cant have all of the medical attention that is available because we dont have the people that it would be needed to pay for it all. these are simple facts. and if&nb sp; Im worng proof it and we already know that I cant believe anything I read so please make it credible. All of these statements are assumptions. You're not basing this in fact at all. You are making up numbers and using them as the justification for why you're saying what you're saying. You're wrong because based on the model of every other system in the industrialized world, they can treat every person. Again, the risk pool is larger and thus allows the small portion of people who cost money to insure still get what they need. 6. "dupe millions of americans into fighting against their own interests." people right now are fighting to keep what they have because that is what they want. are you telling me that they dont even know what is in their best interests???? wow educate me please.... dont get me wrong , I will not lie, both side will paint a picture that makes their arguement look best I see it all the time but most people dont, most people are blindd, and if you can't see as many& nbsp; things wrong with your party as you do with the opposit party on how they act and behave you are indeed blind. First you say "people know what is in their best interests". Then you directly contradict yourself my being "most people are blind". Which is it? I'm going to side with the latter. Again, the amount of misinformation being spewed by guys like O'Reilly and Beck ALONE is enough to blind people who watch that trash. 7. Socialism refers to various theories of economic organisation advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterised by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation. It is characterised by unequal distribution of wealth and compensation according to work done. [1][2][3] Contrary to popular belief, socialism is not a political system; it is an economic system distinct from capitalism. Most socialists share the view that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and derives its wealth through exploitation, creates an unequal society, does not provide equal opportunities for everyone to maximise their potentialities and does not utilise technology and resources to their maximum potential nor in the interests of the public. do we really want to discuss the advantages of capitalism vs the pitfalls of socialism. if so,, someone should really learn the true meaning of what socialism is20and the long term effect it will have on their way of life. Im going to put it in simplest terms, the people who want capitalism and the ones who desire the opportunity to earn most from the extra effort that they make and the people who want socialism are those who want the opportunity to get more from less effort. look around at the people you know and really look at them. there are those who work hard and those who dont and many degrees in between. if you were not going to receive extra (what every) from the extra effort that you make I gurantee the majority of the people in this world will make less effort, and that is what socialism promotes. the sttitude of not working as hard as you other wise would if you were going to receive extra benefits for your hard work. this is so obvious to anybody who has ever really analized the issue, instead of just thinking of what they were going to get out of it., or how they were going to benefit from others peoples effort. Ah, the ole' "bootstraps" myth. Listen, you grew up in a household where your parents were caring and loving. They looked out for you, taught you the best they could, sent you to school, and instilled in you a hard work ethic. That's fantastic. What you fail to realize is that not everyone is given this upbringing and privilege. It is extremely hard to rise from nothing to a lot. The system is built in such a way, currently, that it's drat near impossible. If hard work was all that mattered, I think you would have been a multi-millionaire a decade ago. But no, you are still stuck in a middle management job for a paltry salary -- why? It's not that you haven't worked more than anyone I know. It's that it's just. not. that. simple. You're nuts if you think that we don't already have, like many governments, socialist policies in some ways. Your taxes pay for roads, schools, clean water, firefighters, police, medical research, etc etc etc. We take for granted what the collective power of our taxes does for us -- how is that not socialism in and of itself? And since it is a method of socialism, would you prefer to build your own roads or hire someone to do=2 0it who can gouge the prices because hey, everyone needs roads. The free market is not correcting healthcare in this instance because healthcare is much different from other industries -- in that people who need its service are sick or dying. 8.imperialism The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations. big words in there, but I would like to know what authority does the United states have over germany. over japan, over any other country that we have gone to war with. and beat... none that I know of. Well, the most obvious answer to that is that Japan doesn't have their own military force -- we provide one. I'd say that gives us some level of authority. Although, hilariously enough, the fact that we decided to enact this policy led to the complete booming of Japan as they could then focus their tax dollars elsewhere instead of on a bloated and wasteful military. lets check our history lesson. I am still waiting for just one person to show me any world power in all of time in history where the strongest didnt go out and conquer for their own financial gain. I have not seem the financial gain from our efforts in iraq. I know they said we were there for the oil, we I still havent received my share yet. that war has cost me and every other american money and not a one of us has been paid our royalty yet. You're contradicting yourself again. NO poo poo YOU HAVEN'T RECEIVED YOUR SHARE. The wealth is amassed by the private contractors who reap the benefits of Iraq's resources. You really think they give two shits about the American people and saving them money? No. This is unreigned capitalism, after all -- if you want the profits perhaps you should have bought a President and invaded a country under false pretenses. You just didn't work hard enough... give me a break. should we have done it , you bet your life? we should have... which will be discussed later. we are the only world power in history where&nb sp; we havent conquered for the sake of taking for our own. name the world power and I will be educated, it has always been that way since the beginning of time right upto present day united states the 20th century. I guess Im waiting for the 51st state. the one that become a state because we conquered an existing country. opps hasnt happened yet, all we have done the last 100 years is paid our hard earned cash to help others, yes there has been benefit in it for us but the risk reward has not been in our favor. Every war we have entered was entered for political reasons, not for the sake of helping other nations. We didn't even enter WWII, arguably one of the only wars worth fighting, until we were personally attacked well into the war. You're naive if you think that we are the good cop out there kickin' rear end for freedom and to help the little guy all the time. 9. im running out of numbers, so I have to pick the best two remaining. We are involved in wars of imperialism, again for the private interests reaping mass profit from the war. private interest. making it sound like they are the only ones that benefit when ever benefits are realized. even if one wants to make that argument, who does benefit. the thousands that realize a job from those private interests. the thousands that realize spcial care and medical care from the taxes that are realized by the government from the profits that are created the thousands of other businesses that are able to sustain life from the demands that are created from these evil private interests. and to top it off these private interests take that money and they hourd it, they put it in their pillow cases and keep it to themselves, opps no they dont they spend that money, creating demand for additional jobs, they inve st that money creating additional jobs and successful businesses. so many poeple benefit fro these private interests that are reaping the mass profit from the war it isnt even funny. that is even if you wanted to play that card. but im sure by now fewer people are willing to do so. What you're talking about is trickle down economics. Reagan was wrong, sorry. The people deserve their health more than the healthcare industry deserves its massive profits. I myself can argue the benefits of beating up the meaanies of the world . lets put it this way If I lived in one of those depressed countries, just as yourself, i would expect that the people who had the power to help me wwould do so, opps again, we got it easy why should we go out of our way to help others. if you want to label imperialism as offering others the same opportunities and fr eedoms that we have, then I am an imperialist. You've been lied to. We are not offering the freedoms and opportunities we have by killing civilians in their own country. Not to mention, our freedoms and opportunities are drying up pretty fast as long as corporations control the government through lobbyism and our personal freedoms are taken away due to acts like the "P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act" and "Homeland Security". 10 lastly We were lied to by the Bush administration about WMDs and now servicemen and women are paying the price with their lives... you didnt want to go there either, wmd weapons of mass distruction. I am willing to bet that someone probably most of the people in this email have no idea that it is fair to say they had WMD's we know they had them because we gave them to him. if you want to argue what a wmd is I guess we can go around in circles with that one, but in my humble opinion. what he used was a wmd to kill the kurds and we knew he ha d them because we gave them to him. does anybody remember the kurds I think that is how you spell it, yes in the northern territories of iraq lived the kurds The Iran-Iraq war during the 1980s and the Anfal genocide campaign of the Iraqi army devastated the population and nature of Kurdistan. Following the 1991 uprising of the Kurdish people against Saddam Hussein, the Kurds were forced to flee the country to become refugees in bordering regions of Iran and Turkey. saddam killed thousands of them, he gased them in their villiages men women and children and does anybody want to guess what he used, a wmd a weapon of mass distruction he gased them to death. educate me, someon e , anyone, please educate me I understand the plight of the Kurds and what Hussein was doing to his people. Not everything is black and white -- good things can come from awful things and vice versa. However, claiming that we were in Iraq to help the Kurds is straight insanity. If that's the case, why aren't we currently waging war on Rwanda or Darfur? Genocide is ans has been committed in those countries for an extended period of time. Why didn't we invade Brazil, Tibet, Ethiopia, Argentina, Lebanon, or any of the other nations who have have subject to genocide? Because there is no gain for us in that. You, again, are being lied to. 11. I'm not saying to fly off the handle -- I just want people to understand that I, like most liberals, want a better life for the American citizen. The real one working forty hours a week to not even make ends meet anymore -- not the elite corporate interests that exploit the people for unbridled financial gain. show me one person who is who is fighting for the elite corporate interests who exploit the people for unbridled financial gain. Lobbyists fight for corporate interests by giving money to politicians. Why would they need to do this if what the corporations wanted passed as law was not detr imental to the people? last time I looked, nobody is required to work for their curent employer so explain the exploitation that you speak about. if there was true exploitation people wouldnt work for them and they would go out of business or they would have to stop exploiting their employes. Nobody is forced at gunpoint to work for their employer, sure. But there are economic and social forces at work that keep people stuck. Do you work for Office Depot because you want to, or because you HAVE to in order to support yourself and your family? I am a great example of this -- I am a bill collector. I am an advocate against corporate interests and yet I call people telling them to pay major banks for the loans they've gotten. I don't want to be doing this, in fact I think it's morally reprehensible. But I was born in Western New York. Buffalo is one of the poorest cities in the country -- part of the "rust belt". And because of that, bill collecting is the NUMBER ONE employer in this area. Are we bill collectors because we want to be, or because in this area it is the best way to make a living especially without forking over tens of thousands just to get an education and HOPE you find a job with yo ur degree? (oddly enough, the U.S. is one of few industrialized countries who doesn't pay for their students to attend college with our own tax dollars... hmmm.) and lets ask ourselves who are these evil corporations. the stock hoolders ???? which basically includes every one of us that have a 401 k / retirement account / or owns stock in one of these meany corporations. anybody who owns stock in one of these corporations in part or in whole is a real hypocrate. Im sure that not you though. the employees who benefit by cashing their payroll check the CEO who generally lassts a short few years in the position corporations are us, we encourage everything they do by patronizing them good and services, by investing into them and by working for them, WE ARE THE EVIL CORPORATION but just pretend that we arent. I guess Im done now and will waite to be educated I am always looking to learn more mike The "evil" corporations are the decision-makers. Sure, they have a duty to make profit for their shareholders. But when it comes to healthcare, the end should not be profit but helping your fellow citizens and yourself by costing us less money for better care, the same way that every other first world nation has done. Most employees are employees of corporations because they have to support themselves -- and the vast majority of these employees aren't making the decisions. The CEO only last a few years because he gets so filthy rich from those few years that he can retire to the Bahamas if he so chooses. The rich get richer, after all. I'll leave you with this: the UK is way ahead of us on the World Health Organizations ranking of health care around the world. They instilled the National Health Service (the third largest employer in the entire world in 2009, employing more than one in twenty employed people in the United Kingdom, by the way) on July 5th, 1948 -- directly following the carnage of WWII. If during that low point the nations of the UK could come together and ensure that any citizen from the UK could get treatment in any nation belong to the UK at no or very little cost to them, why can' t we as Americans band together and demand that during this low point of our history, we want to be taken care of with our own tax dollars? Because the private sector does not want people to have affordable insurance -- theyw ant to continue gouging prices and denying claims all the way to the bank. Glenn Beck himself went through the healthcare system not too long ago and decried the current system as being awful. Months later, he is saying we have the best in the world. Why do you think that is? He and others like him are on TV to mislead people and brainwash them with lies to the point they, yes, they will act against their best interests out of fear -- fear that was purposefully instilled in them by right wing pundits and politicians. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-13-2009/glenn-beck-s-operation I've taken about an hour and a half out of my day to calmly try and explain to you that I am not speaking out of ignorance or out of some false sense of superiority, but out of despair because all I want is for the American people to have it better and I want them to stop buying the lies being screamed at them from every side. So don't take two seconds to decide that I am wrong -- truly think about and look around the internet for good sources on this and you will see -- there is a War on the American People being waged by the ruling, upper class. "In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a r elatively few hands. As of 2004, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.3% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.3%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.2%. Table 1 and Figure 1 present further details drawn from the careful work of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2007)." Think about that and tell me -- why don't you, the hardest working guy I know, and me, one of the most compassionate people you will ever meet -- why don't we deserve a bigger piece of the pie? Why don't we deserve to pursue life, liberty, and happiness without worrying about getting sick in the richest country in the world?
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Sep 22, 2009 19:48
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That's a very nice refutation.
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Sep 23, 2009 00:55
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All Else Failed posted:What is the education level of your dad? Have his political beliefs always been the Fox News variety of right wing? Do you expect to change his mind?
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Sep 23, 2009 01:18
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Ortsacras posted:Buy him some bootstraps for his birthday - I'm sure he'll appreciate the good wishes. He replied with 3 comments: quote:I'm not sure how you can possibly look at more government health care as not socialist, but ok. Have you ever read the constitution? These people who are so "ignorant and racist" (which says more about the people that call them that than the recipients) want our constitution to be used again when governing. That's it! More government= less freedom= more taxes= more intervention in personal lives... You are extremely narrow minded. quote:Fascism- a system of government marked by centralization of authority- He is "fundamentally transforming america"-Obama and concentrating more powers within the whitehouse through CZARS than anyone in the past. Giving more controls to a black hole known as the federal reserve. Not to mention nationalizing large portions of the economy. quote:It is really funny, you're right. University of Indiana estimates 1.7 million people, it's hard to get people to travel across the country all on the same day, we are awake. Instead of bootstraps I got him this instead: quote:
and quote:Just to be clear: I realize he has a couple of points with the Obama administration but its pointless to acknowledge that since he's loving crazy. Bozz fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Sep 23, 2009 |
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Sep 23, 2009 08:01
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Bozz posted:He replied with 3 comments: You could also point out to him that the Constitution mere describes the form and limitations of the government of the US, not its economic system. Conflating unfettered capitalism with anything in the Constitution is a rather horrendous fallacy.
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Sep 23, 2009 15:52
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Deteriorata posted:You could also point out to him that the Constitution mere describes the form and limitations of the government of the US, not its economic system. Conflating unfettered capitalism with anything in the Constitution is a rather horrendous fallacy. I love how people who say things like "we're a nation founded on freedom and low taxes - read the Constitution" have very obviously never read even a little bit of the Constitution. I try to point out to them that the Constitution very explicitly gives the government the power to tax, but somehow their brains are not usually able to absorb the concept.
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Sep 23, 2009 15:59
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A friend was showing me an e-mail he got that's been going around apparently. I asked him to forward it to me and I'll post it once I get it. The basic gist of it is that we should throw away the Constitution and return to the Articles of Confederation because of its excellent "states' rights" and anti-federalism policies. It was pretty loving ludicrous and very easy to see that whoever wrote it has never actually read the Articles of Confederation or put any thought into why a guy like James Madison looked at the Articles and said, "What the gently caress does any of this even mean? We need a constitution!"
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Sep 23, 2009 16:03
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What's up with capitalizing CZARS? Is it some sort of joke I'm missing like when people just say Hussein Obama?
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Sep 23, 2009 17:41
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crime fighting hog posted:What's up with capitalizing CZARS? Is it some sort of joke I'm missing like when people just say Hussein Obama? The right has suddenly taken issue with the fact that the executive branch has been appointing people to oversee things who are called czars. It's been happening for decades. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czar_(political_term)#Development_of_term
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Sep 23, 2009 17:47
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CDOR Gemini posted:The right has suddenly taken issue with the fact that the executive branch has been appointing people to oversee things who are called czars. It's been happening for decades. No offense man, but I think we've already covered the origin of the Czars enough.
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Sep 23, 2009 19:20
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I hate to post something so huge, but I felt like sharing  quote:Hello All, Also, this 912 pic for your enjoyment 
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Sep 23, 2009 21:00
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So I posted randomnoise's "SOCIALISM" post on facebook and got this from a crazy conservative uncle in return: quote:This morning I was awakened by my alarm clock, a black and white domestic shorthair cat, named Tuna Breath, which demands to be fed at six AM seven days a week, fifty-two weeks a year. I then took a shower in water which came from the Quabbin Reservoir, of which I am grateful. However, I think that many of the people of the towns of Dana, Enfield, Greenwich and Prescott in the 1930’s may not share my opinion.
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Sep 23, 2009 21:45
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Petey posted:So I posted randomnoise's "SOCIALISM" post on facebook and got this from a crazy conservative uncle in return: Why are everyone's crazy conservative uncles dumber than poo poo? I include myself in that, although I have one crazy conservative uncle who would say stuff like that, and one who's actually incredibly intelligent and usually has decent arguments.
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Sep 23, 2009 21:53
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quote:After dinner, my son played with his favorite toy, a fully loaded, semi-automatic Glock 9 with one in the chamber What the hell...? Is this serious?
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Sep 23, 2009 22:01
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The guy does realize that most of that is dumb filler poo poo and not any kind of refutation or parody of the original post, right?
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Sep 23, 2009 22:24
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Hagetaka posted:The guy does realize that most of that is dumb filler poo poo and not any kind of refutation or parody of the original post, right? Original post: clever illustration of how government bashing wingnuts benefit from government in almost every facet of daily living Refutation: random wingnut talking points about liberals and stuff. AmericanPoliticalDiscourse2009.txt
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Sep 23, 2009 23:15
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Siiiiigh. Every time I think mom is getting more progressive she sends me a forward and I cry a little bit.quote:Payback is fun!!!!!!!!!!!!! Complete with RANDOM CAPITALS and LOTS AND LOTS OF EXCLAMATION MARKS!!!!!!!! OH GOD ANTI-CHRISTIAN SENTIMENT DERP My response. Yeah, I know it's hosed up a bit in the center, but I have a headache, okay?  quote:Believe it or not, they really are in violation of the law. The separation of church and state is, in fact, respected and upheld jurisprudence, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States#Supreme_Court_since_1947 and the accompanying rest of the page for examples. The post office is a government facility, and display of religious things, this including pagan, muslim, buddhist, catholic, protestant, taoist, discordian, subgenii, and even greco-bloody-roman iconography. This is not intolerance. This is not about hating christianity. This is not about marginalizing people, putting down their beliefs, or anything of the sort.
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Sep 23, 2009 23:24
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