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Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

1) Not that much. I have a player in the SR game I'm in with a 17 dice pool for submachineguns, so it's fairly easy to get that high if they know what they're doing. The biggest thing is to limit his line of sight, maybe force him into shorter ranges where rate of fire and rapid target acqusition is more important than accuracy at long range. Smoke generators and grenades can also work to neutralize his advantages. The aforementioned ultrasound may pick him up, but ultrawideband radar is even better, since it has takes 5 times it's rating in structure to block it (which means it can detect him hiding behind a Patrol One or a concrete abutment) and have ranges up to 100m. Unless he's using subsonic ammo (which is unlikely if he's firing at long ranges, since it reduces ranges by 20% and only gives a -1 die to detection, -2 when paired with a silencer), noise analysis with spatial recognizing software will give +2 dice pool to identify sounds. Also, countersnipers.

Also, is he carrying a fully assembled rifle everywhere he goes? I really think that's his biggest problem outside of the op's tactics. The big problem with sniper rifles are their size. They are unconcealable for the most part. Unless he's using a SM4, which can be disassembled to fit in a briefcase, he'll have to carry it around in paper bag and say it's curtain rods, like Lee Harvey. Although, his mileage may vary. A car comes in handy for this, whether as transport, (keep it in the trunk and if stopped say your going hunting) or, like Lee Malvo, a firing platform. Again, his mileage may vary.

2) Pheromones would likely trigger chemsniffers. There are also specialized phermone sniffers used to detect overworking metahumans (and menstrating females). While it doesn't say, I would apply the rating of the tailored pheromones as a bonus to the chemsniffer.

3) High level, high loyalty contact like that would be like a friend. It would be wise to use him as the team's fixer. Of course, the fixer may or may not pay the sniper since they are friends, but it also would mean he's not going to throw them to the police or the corps.

4) Sounds reasonable. Runner Companion might have something to say, but I'd say it's fair.

Young Freud fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Sep 28, 2009

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Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


PierreTheMime posted:

I'd probably recommend gangers first and then move into the stranger biotech stuff afterwards. It's better to have the group congeal around a simple and more "real world" problem before they start fighting Killer Croc. Perhaps have them retreive an item from a ganger warehouse while they're trading it away to another gang? Bonus if they can set up the theft to look like a betrayal?
My "milk run" intro game setup was this: The party is contacted by the GM of the Seattle Mariners, who are still around and play in a clean "legacy" league - no magic, bioware or drugs for the players.

One of their stars has pissed hot, and his urine is being tested right now at a lab. The party is given a vial of "clean" urine to take into the lab and swap out for the dirty yellow.

Fun complications: The bottles in the testing room are unlabeled (they have to hack the office computer to decode the alphanumeric codes to find the right bottle), the street is a well-lit street in a respectable part of town (they have to find a convincing way that a group of badass runners would be there at midnight), or the usual security guard protocols, or worst case, on a glitch, the party's "replacement" breaks, forcing them to find someone (if none of them are clean) to pee in a bottle for them.

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

Thanks for all the advice! The sniper is using whichever gun fits in the briefcase, although on the legwork portion of runs where he's doing his recon I'd assume it's grandfathered into the chameleon suit as being stealthed better. We may not have a rigger so the sniper also picked up a van for the group to get places or at least to maybe let the hacker set up some equipment too. I also complete forgot about the magic equivalent of seeing the sniper, so thanks for that. None of the players are playing anything remotely in tune with magic (the hacker originally wanted to be a hacker/shaman but we couldn't find a way to make it work without sucking at both roles), so a lot of magic will catch them off guard.

I never thought that having two shadowrunners in a house might draw suspicion, but I would think that for a high lifestyle, there'd be some small perks of private living. Obviously all four won't live together, just two most likely.

I like the ideas of the basic warehouse scene between two gangs, as well as the milk run for swapping the samples of the baseball player, I'll see if I can use both or at least one depending on the time we have.

Nick Buntline
Dec 20, 2007
Doesn't know the impossible.

To add my two cents, the way to handle a lot of these issues (sniper, pheromones, etc.) is to decide, preferably beforehand but on the fly if you need to, what sort of security would be there, and then see if the runners manage to avoid them. If they do - if the warehouse they're entering couldn't give a drat about pheromones, or if the face gets a good cover story and finagles his way through the entrance that all the other corp execs with illegal ware "inexplicably" use with no problems - then good! They're professionals (or at least experienced), and they've proven they can do their job, so let them.

On the other hand, if they do mess up - if they miss a sensor, or if the hacker doesn't hide his tracks from the security hacker on staff well enough, or if they get the brilliant idea to storm the front gates of a business in a AAA neighborhood - then yeah, start having security do their best to handle the situation. Have them take the guy aside for a private screening, or go on building alert to find the intruders they know are somewhere, or begin returning fire, or whatever. The overall point is: scale security to the target and to the runner's actions, not to the runner's themselves. Sure, putting watcher spirits on every nearby rooftop will stop a sniper, but 90% of the time it's going to A) feel forced, B) appear completely ridiculous (is security really keeping a body count of every apartment building within three blocks? really?), and/or C) be totally unnecessary when the sniper gets a brainfart and begins shooting at the guards from a phone booth across the street.

Another thing to consider that I haven't seen mentioned yet: neighborhood security rating. This is really relevant to a sniper. A sniper in a low security zone who sets himself up in a top floor window a few blocks away should easily have enough time to take out his targets and make his escape before Lone Star gets there, sets up a net, begins searching buildings, etc. A sniper out in the Barrens isn't going to have to worry about jack poo poo unless he forgets to bribe the gangers whose turf he's on. And a sniper who decides go on a rooftop and start taking pot shots at a AAA-corp office should be given about three seconds before you pound him into a fine paste with whatever you feel is appropriate (helicopters, strike teams, cyberzombies, hell go ahead and have Lowfyr roast him if he's stupid enough to try it on Saeder-Krupp).

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

My fiance is the one playing the face, and she's not all that great on absolute mechanics but she does just fine in-game and put forth all the info for her character concept. Since she's at school, I went ahead and did her character sheet for her for the game on Saturday, pending her approval, much like I do for D&D as well (she likes the games just isn't too keen on knowing how to build a character that isn't absolutely worthless). Please let me know if I absolutely hosed her character or not. This also will help me spot irregularities or BP issues with the other players too.

Concept: A female face trained in the arts of companionship and diplomacy, who has dabbled some in the past with biotech as a necessity of learning things on the fly out in a feral city when a plane she was on got shot down. Since coming back to Seattle since the experience, she has worked on finding old friends and making her way since the companion guild she was part of left her for dead. (Yes, she is basically Inara from Firefly without the whoring).

Attributes
Metatype: Elf
Body: 3
Agility: 5
Reaction: 3
Strength: 2
Charisma: 8
Intuition: 4
Logic: 2
Willpower: 3
Edge: 2
Essence: 5.2
Initiative: 9

Active Skills
Influence SG: 5
Biotech SG: 2
Electronics SG: 2
Escape Artist: 2
Infiltration: 3
Pistols: 4
Dodge: 3
Disguise: 3
Perception: 5

Qualities
First Impression (positive)
Addiction (BTL) (-4, negative)
Allergy (Cats) (-4, negative)

Weapon/Armor
Cold Manhunter
Auctioneer Business Clothes

Contacts
Beat Cop 3/3
Mechanic 2/2
Street Doc 2/2
Fixer 2/3

Implants
Comlink (.2)
Datajack (.1)
Cybereyes Rating 2 (.3)
Tailored Pheromones Rating 1 (.2)

Comlink
CMT Clip w/ Renraku Ichi OS
(Response 1, System 2, Firewall 2, Signal 3)
Program: Common Use 3
Virtual Pet (Bunny)

Equipment
Medkit Rating 5
Medkit Supplies x5
Displosable Syringe x15
Cram x5
Nitro x5
Narcojet x5
Gamme-Scopolamine x4
Middle Lifestyle

Overall this leaves her with 1600 nuyen after character creation.

404GoonNotFound
Aug 6, 2006

The McRib is back!?!?
Nothing major, just nitpicks:

1) Unless it's a set in stone house rule, I'm pretty sure Nuyen from character creation can't be carried into the game proper.

2) This is more a personal thing, but I usually don't like the Allergy flaw, it just feels like a cheap point grab. Perhaps you should swap it out for Pacifist (low level) or Combat Paralysis, something that would sense for a Face?

3) She's not a weapon specialist, so 4 in Pistols is a bit much. You can easily just make it Pistols 2 (Semiautomatics +2) and save a few points.

4) Good thinking giving her Disguise, but wouldn't Palming be useful as well? Gotta get that ID card from somewhere.

5) Speaking of Disguise, maybe shift some numbers around and get her a couple tubes of Nanopaste Disguise? Not mandatory, just handy.

6) Personal thing again: I would NEVER take a contact with Loyalty below 3, at 2 it's just a matter of time until they screw you over to a better paying customer. Which you might actually want as a GM, but still.

7) Grammar Nazi nitpick: You misspelled Colt, and it's Actioneer (silly, I know, but them's the book spellings) :haw:

Besides that, looks pretty solid to me.

404GoonNotFound fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Sep 28, 2009

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

404GoonNotFound posted:

Nothing major, just nitpicks:

1) Unless it's a set in stone house rule, I'm pretty sure Nuyen from character creation can't be carried into the game proper.
Each 100 nuyen left over from character creation can be applied as a +1 modifier for starting nuyen up to half the triple maximum rolled as per the SR4A rulebook. Is that different from old version?

quote:

2) This is more a personal thing, but I usually don't like the Allergy flaw, it just feels like a cheap point grab. Perhaps you should swap it out for Pacifist (low level) or Combat Paralysis, something that would sense for a Face?

3) She's not a weapon specialist, so 4 in Pistols is a bit much. You can easily just make it Pistols 2 (Semiautomatics +2) and save a few points.

4) Good thinking giving her Disguise, but wouldn't Palming be useful as well? Gotta get that ID card from somewhere.
Thanks, I'll add that in, probably from lowering pistols. My only thought in giving her a total of 9 dice for shooting was if things went bad, she could at least have a chance to shoot someone down, given that I don't know if the fourth player will be a weapons specialist. If not the group could be slightly lacking if poo poo goes down in a firefight.

quote:

5) Speaking of Disguise, maybe shift some numbers around and get her a couple tubes of Nanopaste Disguise? Not mandatory, just handy.

6) Personal thing again: I would NEVER take a contact with Loyalty below 3, at 2 it's just a matter of time until they screw you over to a better paying customer. Which you might actually want as a GM, but still.

7) Grammar Nazi nitpick: You misspelled Colt, and it's Actioneer (silly, I know, but them's the book spellings) :haw:

Besides that, looks pretty solid to me.

Thanks for all the feedback!

YOTC
Nov 18, 2005
Damn stupid newbie
Isn't 4 the highest you can buy a skillgroup at character creation?

Wanders off to go look at his book

Also a few points in leadership never hurt too bad(not the most USEFUL skill but still)

Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

YOTC posted:

Isn't 4 the highest you can buy a skillgroup at character creation?

Yes. I don't even need the book to know that information. :smug:

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

Ah, that saves me some more points then, thanks!

This is why I posted this up, since I'm so new to this :ohdear:

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon
Could someone give me a few hints for recommending a good hacker build? I've always enjoyed playing the tech type in SR games; the guy who's a jack of all trades but is particularly good at electronics and computer stuff. If anyone is following the Streets of Seattle game I'm talking about someone similar to my character Ransom in that game.

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

Well, as much as the final group layout was rather combat heavy, with only one single combat happening and finishing within 10 minutes, my group absolutely LOVED the game, even the two players who were iffy on it, and they want to give it another go since the system wasn't too bad either. The group is more interested in combat, which I can put in without a problem, but it was a lot of fun. I felt I got every little aspect of gameplay in save for only a shred of combat and no extended tests from the players themselves.

The makeup of the party are the face/biotech female elf, the street samurai human male (SR4A premade), an elf male weapons specialist (SR4A premade), and a sniper/covert ops male elf. I ran the scenario of needing to swap out the urine and for players who normally don't roleplay much, they really got into using their skills and characters despite the lack of combat, which was great. They all used their contacts to a really well executed degree.

One of the characters got to use their hacker to help them out in finishing the run, and in turn has requested a favor as the next run, which is going to be sabotaging the server farm of a rival hacker. In doing this I think I can add in a lot more combat, especially if it's on the outskirts of Seattle where Lone Star probably wouldn't go, and they're pretty keen on side missions of their own, so I know they'll try to steal some of the data if they can, maybe even getting it to their hacker to increase his connection/loyalty.

All in all I can't wait to run it again, even as a DM the prep work isn't more than 2 pages of notes and stats, and glitches make the game super fun in what I can throw the players.

Grim
Sep 11, 2003

Grimey Drawer

Fenarisk posted:

4) The players want to know how to work on maybe living together in regards to living expenses. The face wants a high lifestyle, and the hacker wants to work into the story that they know each other and live together. My thought was the person living with the face would need to still pay 75% of the cost of living.
I know you've already started the game but I just wanted to point out page 269 of the 20th Anniversary Core book; Team Lifestyles cost an extra 10% per person.

Anyway, I've just recently gotten into SR (despite having had the 2E rulebook on one of my shelves for years now) and this thread has been a big help, especialy those cheat sheets posted earlier.

alg
Mar 14, 2007

A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

These are some pretty good sheets divided up by character archetype.

http://media.libsyn.com/media/erikstanfill/eriks_SR4_sheets.zip

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
My tabletop players don't appreciate why they need runner aliases. While I brought up the obvious (notoriety), they don't dig it. What arguments could exist for using them?

PierreTheMime
Dec 9, 2004

Hero of hormagaunts everywhere!
Buglord

Tias posted:

My tabletop players don't appreciate why they need runner aliases. While I brought up the obvious (notoriety), they don't dig it. What arguments could exist for using them?

Wait, are they all running around using their legal names? :psyduck:

Reasons to use an alias:
   ∙ Cool factor
   ∙ Law enforcement tracking/ease of incrimination
   ∙ Magical tracking via spells and rituals
   ∙ Revenge via family members and known associates/friends
   ∙ Shows a lack of professionalism and/or naiveté that some Johnsons may find off-putting

I'll add more if you need more. In general it's a lazy and terrible thing to do and if they insist on doing it you should punish them for it.

Edit: Tias, what happened to the Shadowrun PbP :smith:

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
I'll update it soon enough, just got life hitting me - GM'ing tabletop SR now, have another game and a CYOA, as well as getting a shitload of volunteer work. I promise I'll prioritize the game so I get back to the two weekly updates I said I'd make.

And thanks, please keep them coming. They all agreed to get a nick, but it's good to have some ideas for when they slip.

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

What's the best way to test against a player's perception? In D&D 4e they have passive perception which is nice, but if I want to try sneaky stuff in Shadowrun do I roll for the player? Obviously going "roll your perception" is a dead giveaway.

MohawkSatan
Dec 20, 2008

by Cyrano4747

Fenarisk posted:

What's the best way to test against a player's perception? In D&D 4e they have passive perception which is nice, but if I want to try sneaky stuff in Shadowrun do I roll for the player? Obviously going "roll your perception" is a dead giveaway.

Best way is to have a card with everybody's perception and a few other details on it.

Scarecrow411
Nov 14, 2004

FREE FUNSTER

MohawkSatan posted:

Best way is to have a card with everybody's perception and a few other details on it.

This is best, because when you start rolling dice without announcing anything it sets the players on edge.

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

I don't think I understand what you mean, or I have the rules wrong. I don't see a passive Target Number dependent on the number of dice a character has in their pool to see or hear things.

The Sekah
Oct 3, 2009

Fenarisk posted:

I don't think I understand what you mean, or I have the rules wrong. I don't see a passive Target Number dependent on the number of dice a character has in their pool to see or hear things.

Check out page 117 of the SR4E rulebook. Its a threshold thing. For example, say there is an explosion. Well if the character rolls a single hit, he notices it. If not then he was off in lala land with his thumb up his rear end. A threshold of 2 would be something normal, say talking in the same room. If the player does not get 2 hits, he fails to notice. Threshold of three indicates a harder to hear say wispers. A threshold of four would be a pin dropping. Or perhaps a needle in a hay stack. Now clearly, the mroe NET hits that a player gets, the more he notices detail.

Then you deal with modifiers. These subtract from a players chance to hear or see things. Again if say the character is distracted, you would take two dice away from his pool, lessening his chance to hear/see whatever.

Now you probably know that. How does it differ? Well the more dice in the character's pool, the better his chance to hit or pass the threshold. For example, I once made a cyberzombie combat monster. This guy had around 12 die to hear something. GM was describing heart beat patterns to me.

Does that answer your question to a decent extent? Or am i dumb and missed the point entirly....

[EDIT] One thing that occured to me was that if a character has a perception of 2 and intuition of 4 so 6 dice to roll to get a chance to hear something. Lets say that that there is conversation a room over. I'll put that at a threshold of, say, 2. But the character is distracted (-2) by the gunfire (-2) and is a room away (another -2 btw all these modifiers are on page 117). Now the character has lost 6 dice. That fucker wouldn't hear poo poo. He wouldn't hear it because of all the poo poo (namely bullets) going on around him. Does that help?

The Sekah fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Oct 13, 2009

McGravin
Aug 25, 2004

Tantum via caeli per ferro incendioque est.

The Sekah posted:

[EDIT] One thing that occured to me was that if a character has a perception of 2 and intuition of 4 so 6 dice to roll to get a chance to hear something. Lets say that that there is conversation a room over. I'll put that at a threshold of, say, 2. But the character is distracted (-2) by the silenced gunfire (-2) and is a room away (another -2 btw all these modifiers are on page 117). Now the character has lost 6 dice. That fucker wouldn't hear poo poo. He wouldn't hear it because of all the poo poo (namely bullets) going on around him. Does that help?
I could be mistaken, but with silenced gunfire it's -2 to hear the gunfire itself. The shots don't make it harder to hear other things.

Of course, if he did manage to notice the shots, he'd probably be freaking out about where they're coming from, which either explains the existing distracted (-2) modifier or perhaps warrants a second, stacking distracted (-2).

The Sekah
Oct 3, 2009

McGravin posted:

I could be mistaken, but with silenced gunfire it's -2 to hear the gunfire itself. The shots don't make it harder to hear other things.

Of course, if he did manage to notice the shots, he'd probably be freaking out about where they're coming from, which either explains the existing distracted (-2) modifier or perhaps warrants a second, stacking distracted (-2).

Good point. Sorry. I read it as being as loud as conversation and therefore equally distracting, but a valid point. Lemme rephrase the edit

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
GM'ing for my tabletop group today. Bloody hell is this game hard to run, rules-wise.

The Sekah
Oct 3, 2009

Tias posted:

GM'ing for my tabletop group today. Bloody hell is this game hard to run, rules-wise.

Good luck. I'd like to hear how it goes. Let us know.

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

The Sekah posted:

Check out page 117 of the SR4E rulebook. Its a threshold thing. For example, say there is an explosion. Well if the character rolls a single hit, he notices it. If not then he was off in lala land with his thumb up his rear end. A threshold of 2 would be something normal, say talking in the same room. If the player does not get 2 hits, he fails to notice. Threshold of three indicates a harder to hear say wispers. A threshold of four would be a pin dropping. Or perhaps a needle in a hay stack. Now clearly, the mroe NET hits that a player gets, the more he notices detail.

Then you deal with modifiers. These subtract from a players chance to hear or see things. Again if say the character is distracted, you would take two dice away from his pool, lessening his chance to hear/see whatever.

Now you probably know that. How does it differ? Well the more dice in the character's pool, the better his chance to hit or pass the threshold. For example, I once made a cyberzombie combat monster. This guy had around 12 die to hear something. GM was describing heart beat patterns to me.

Does that answer your question to a decent extent? Or am i dumb and missed the point entirly....

[EDIT] One thing that occured to me was that if a character has a perception of 2 and intuition of 4 so 6 dice to roll to get a chance to hear something. Lets say that that there is conversation a room over. I'll put that at a threshold of, say, 2. But the character is distracted (-2) by the gunfire (-2) and is a room away (another -2 btw all these modifiers are on page 117). Now the character has lost 6 dice. That fucker wouldn't hear poo poo. He wouldn't hear it because of all the poo poo (namely bullets) going on around him. Does that help?

I understand all this but let me give the situation I'm thinking of:

GM: *rolls for the stealth of an enemy* Ok, Player A, roll perception.
Player A: *roll and gets 2 hits less than the enemy*
GM: Ok, uh, you don't notice anything.
Player A - D: We all look around and see if there's anything around

The mere mention of one player making a perception roll is going to clue everyone in and gently caress things over. What I'm wondering is if there's some sort of average target I can assign to each player character so if I roll and beat them on stealth, I don't even have to say what I rolled for.

Ashenai
Oct 5, 2005

You taught me language;
and my profit on't
Is, I know how to curse.

Fenarisk posted:

The mere mention of one player making a perception roll is going to clue everyone in and gently caress things over. What I'm wondering is if there's some sort of average target I can assign to each player character so if I roll and beat them on stealth, I don't even have to say what I rolled for.

Sure, if you have to, just use 1/3 of their dice. A player rolling 12 dice will get 4 successes, on average.

Most of the time, though, as a DM, I just use the following trick:

Players: "Okay, anything interesting in the room?"
DM: (knowing that there's a spy near, say, the east exit, preparing to leave and report on the players) "Nope."
Players: "Fine, we leave by the west exit."
DM: (knowing that the spy has already left) "Sure. By the way, roll Perception."

Delaying the check like this, if they fail then looking around won't do anything (the target had already left,) and if they succeed, I just say "nevermind my previous answer: as you enter the room, you see a shadowy figure etc etc"

Ashenai fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Oct 14, 2009

McGravin
Aug 25, 2004

Tantum via caeli per ferro incendioque est.

Fenarisk posted:

What I'm wondering is if there's some sort of average target I can assign to each player character so if I roll and beat them on stealth, I don't even have to say what I rolled for.
Again, simply roll for them. Like Scarecrow411 said, rolling and not announcing anything (because they failed) is a great way to set players on edge.

If for some reason this doesn't work for you, you've got options for passive perception:

1) Take 1/3 of their perception pool as hits, like Ashenai said. That's average for their roll.

2) SR4 lets you buy hits at a ratio of 4 dice to 1 success, so take 1/4 of their perception pool as hits. This is a little harsher than the 1/3 average, but if you feel like being mean, you've got the rules to back you up.

3) Have each player roll perception at the beginning of a scene or even at the start of the game session, note down hits, and use that as passive perception for hidden items or events.

And finally, if you don't want to roll and passive perception doesn't work for you, you can always have the players roll whenever an event happens, but if they don't get a success, describe something else important-sounding in the room. They'll think they succeeded because their character saw something important, so the players won't feel the need to roll again to see what they missed.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



McGravin posted:

Again, simply roll for them. Like Scarecrow411 said, rolling and not announcing anything (because they failed) is a great way to set players on edge.
If you do this, don't do it ONLY when there's actually stealth or whatever going on, just roll dice periodically for no particular reason at irregular intervals. Otherwise they'll pick up on you rolling and then immediately announcing that there's a ninja dinosaur in the corner or whatever.

lighttigersoul
Mar 5, 2009

Sailor Scout Enoutner 5:
Moon Healing Escalation
A good way for behind the screen rolling is every major set piece. If this were D&D and you were delving, I'd say every room and hallway roll behind the screen, even if there isn't anything there. ((Of course, one theory of adventure design is that you don't have a set piece unless SOMETHING significant is happening. But to taste.))

YOTC
Nov 18, 2005
Damn stupid newbie
I'm kinda a dick when it comes to perception and the like tests. I roll dice constantly, enough that my players sometimes think I do it out of boredom. I just have like 5 of the dice I roll constantly and 2 of them are a different color and I just watch them and use them to roll for the players.

You can also just roll every time they enter a room for NO reason and they'll just get used to you rolling all the time. Or hell, play with a laptop with your "notes" on it and a random dice roller. Lots of ways around this.

I always have more problems with my players coming up with ingenious ways to break my schemes... Like lighting a town on fire in a recent 3.5 campaign. Jerks, if they weren't basically the bad guys I'd have to do horrible things to them.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

The Sekah posted:

Good luck. I'd like to hear how it goes. Let us know.

Not really a success IMHO. Three of the players (one was absent) either had played 3rd a loong time ago or had no experience with Shadowrun whatsoever. This didn't pose any problems as they were good players and avid readers, but jesus christ did the game get bogged down with looking up rules and rolling dice - my players are the type that will like to use all optional rules and learn them by heart, it's part of the fun for them, so I've decided to get a lot better acquainted with the rules so I can just tell them what to roll and get on with them.

My own (lack of) experience meant that the antagonist on this run got served by the troll bounty hunter with burst-firing shotguns, when he was supposed to get away - Not too bad a loss, considering they want to hand him over to police, so I guess he can always be sprung and return a cybernetic monstrosity some other day.

I'm beginning to get them somewhat turned on to the atmosphere, even though some of my players sort of are manchildren that will sometimes zero on something idiotic and inconsequential for fun - for instance, the social adept is also a collector of 20th century card games with a penchant for pokemon, but he plays it well and entertaining so no problem there, only one of the other players have taken it to mean everything in SR4 is campy anime poo poo and will rant on about how we should have a campaign in Japan, argh :argh:

Needed to vent, there. The enormity of the rules are basically what made parts of the game really boring, particularly when the drone rigger had to look up his rules or the hacker had to do something. I think it will get a lot better if I get a better handle on the rules till next time.

The Sekah
Oct 3, 2009
Sorry to hear that. But as you and the people learn the rules, I think for sure you will do better.

Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

Tias posted:

Not really a success IMHO. Three of the players (one was absent) either had played 3rd a loong time ago or had no experience with Shadowrun whatsoever. This didn't pose any problems as they were good players and avid readers, but jesus christ did the game get bogged down with looking up rules and rolling dice - my players are the type that will like to use all optional rules and learn them by heart, it's part of the fun for them, so I've decided to get a lot better acquainted with the rules so I can just tell them what to roll and get on with them.

That sounds a lot like what happened in our game recently. The GM had been pretty well-versed the previous editions of Shadowrun, that he kept doubling the barrier ratings and vehicle armors, like you did in third edition and earlier (which made the already clunky vehicle rules even more so when on-foot people were shooting them). We ended getting into a 30-minute derail over this, since SR4 already has already prefactored vehicle armor to be more resilient. He eventually relented when we pulled out examples from SR4.

The biggest thing I have to say about SR4 is forget everything you know about the previous versions of Shadowrun and start fresh.

Ashenai
Oct 5, 2005

You taught me language;
and my profit on't
Is, I know how to curse.
Man, I remember my first and only game of Shadowrun. I was playing a combat mage, and it was a simple theft job; get some hi-tech gizmo that was being kept in a facility, etc etc.

Anyway, I went astral to go scouting. Hey, two mid-level elementals guarding the facility. Okay, this is basically a dungeon being guarded by monsters, right? I know this!

Manabolt! Manabolt! Oh poo poo more elementals I'm outta here :saddowns:

The DM just looked at me for what seemed like a full minute. To his credit, he picked up the story, barely missing a beat, and had the Johnson say that the bad guys somehow caught wind of our plan (pointed look at me), so they were moving the gizmo, and we had to go intercept the armored van.

Seriously though, I had no idea how to play Shadowrun. And man, I really want to play again. Only this time maybe explore tactical options other than frontal assault. :(

Ashenai fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Oct 16, 2009

McGravin
Aug 25, 2004

Tantum via caeli per ferro incendioque est.

Ashenai posted:

Seriously though, I had no idea how to play Shadowrun. And man, I really want to play again. Only this time maybe explore tactical options other than frontal assault. :(
Shadowrun can be played as a run-and-gun type game, but most GMs play it as a stealth and evasion game. Once you get used to that, the game is tons of fun.

MohawkSatan
Dec 20, 2008

by Cyrano4747

McGravin posted:

Shadowrun can be played as a run-and-gun type game, but most GMs play it as a stealth and evasion game. Once you get used to that, the game is tons of fun.

It can be done as both. Lots of stealth, but incredibly fast and violent fights happen now and then.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
So it's tabletop day again, and my player pointed out something pretty interesting to me: How can a smartgun link (listed as an image modification) be used with a smartgun system "eject a clip by mental command"!?

My common sense tells me this is done by comm-link, and both the artwork and descriptions of commlink use tells me that people use it without working it with their hands. So: Are commlinks wired directly to the brain with electrodes somehow?

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Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

I would only allow my players to do so if they had the implanted comm-link. It's like .01 essence anyway and I don't see any reason for non-magic users NOT to have their commlink setup this way.

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