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xanthig posted:Why turn this into a dick measuring contest? My point is, what constitutes hardship living overseas can vary greatly depending on one's experience prior to joining the state department. ProdigalSon's post accurately describes the perspective many expats living in Shitstania have of DoS employees. It may or may not be true to reality, but when your experience in Shitstania is making GBS threads in ditches, eating only local fare for months on end and maybe occasionally meeting another american once in a while, life behind the embassy wall looks cushy. Meh, it doesn't scare me off. My experience in Shitstania was making GBS threads in ditches, eating MREs for months on end, and getting shot at on a regular basis. Just having a bed would be an improvement from sleeping on the ground.
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Oct 10, 2009 19:37
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ProdigalSon posted:Those are good points - I'm just reporting the situation as I see it from outside of the consulate. I'm sure there's a lot about working there that I don't know. Another fun fact: They only send people to language training if their actual job requires it which most of the people don't actually get.
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Oct 10, 2009 19:47
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xanthig posted:ProdigalSon's post accurately describes the perspective many expats living in Shitstania have of DoS employees. Are my observations contrary to what you've seen? I have yet to meet someone working in a US consulate who greatly defies my description.
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Oct 10, 2009 20:25
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xanthig posted:That line was an inside joke, a shout out to a particular school of diplomacy. Although it was inadvertent, you got trolled son. There are diplomacy jokes that sound exactly like jokes about online gaming?
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Oct 10, 2009 20:31
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Vilerat posted:Another fun fact: They only send people to language training if their actual job requires it which most of the people don't actually get. This is true, but I would note that most generalists do get language training. There seems to be a particular dearth of language training opportunities for specialists, which I think is a real shame.
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Oct 11, 2009 02:36
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ProdigalSon posted:This is an interesting perspective that definitely contrasts with my own experience living overseas and meeting people who work in the US consulate. To summarize: Keep in mind that the folks you see hanging around near the consulate all the time are exactly those who are not getting out much into the rest of the city. That doesn't mean, though, that there aren't people taking every opportunity to experience the local culture. At each post I've worked, I've known officers and others who have had local friends (and girlfriends), traveled most weekends, and spent little unnecessary time at the office. And that doesn't include travel for work, which is common in some jobs. Admittedly, one nice thing in some places -- especially at large embassies -- is the ability to "take a break" from the host country when desired, by basically staying inside the embassy and interacting with one's peers. Even at the biggest foreign service posts, though, there is much more exposure to the local population and culture than people living on long-established U.S. military bases ever see, but usually not as much as most nonofficial expats will have. Of course, language ability will be a factor in how accessible the locals will be in many places. What city do you live in?
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Oct 11, 2009 04:42
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Business of Ferrets posted:What city do you live in? I've spent time around and met people working in the US Consulate in Chengdu China, Bangkok Thailand, and Vientiane Laos.
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Oct 11, 2009 06:20
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I'm pretty sure most of the folks at Consulate Chengdu actually live on the compound, so that could be what keeps them around so much. Don't know the living situation in Bangkok or Vientiane, but Bangkok, at least, is a ginormous mission, so I'm sure there are lots of people who just stick around the embassy complex. I can tell you, though, that Bangkok is a very sought-after posting, so I suspect that plenty of folks are getting out and enjoying the city/country/region.
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Oct 11, 2009 06:59
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Business of Ferrets posted:I can tell you, though, that Bangkok is a very sought-after posting, so I suspect that plenty of folks are getting out and enjoying the city/country/region. Is it? Lame. (I studied Thai there and was thinking it'd be cool to get back in the near future) Also, I met an FSO while I was there. If you think first-tour consular work all sounds really dull, he said his first tour in Vietnam he spent a fair amount of time picking up bodies of dead American tourists (mostly drug overdoses).
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Oct 11, 2009 14:19
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Pompous Rhombus posted:
In terms of a first job - at least it's interesting. I think Vilerat did a service in making clear that it isn't all cocktail parties and glamor. Every job has its lovely part and I've found that some of the unhappiest people in any profession are those who went into it with completely skewed expectations. As for State replacing DoD (or more appropriately getting back from DoD) a lot of the overseas authority on foreign policy. Meh, I doubt it. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that Sec Powell and Rice both tried this without much success. And the Obama administration frankly does not seem up to the task of anything right now, let alone a fundamental re-organization of how we represent US interests overseas. Right now a lot of DoD is actively trying to push responsibilities back unto State's plate where it rightfully belongs. However a lot of this is being driven by the difficulties in waging multiple operations oveseas and the strain this is putting on the DoD. So from a purely bureaucratic perspective it makes sense that you hear so many senior DoD civilians and uniformed officers talking about strengthening State. However, the money gravy train is going to be turned off, and probably sooner rather than later. You can bet your rear end that DoD will make a power play to protect its budget once that happens. DoD has a congressional constituency. Who does State have?
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Oct 11, 2009 18:27
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Happydayz posted:DoD has a congressional constituency. Who does State have? We don't even get combat zone tax exemptions! I think that answers that.
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Oct 11, 2009 19:39
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Happydayz posted:However, the money gravy train is going to be turned off, and probably sooner rather than later. Have you been hearing rumblings that State's funding will be reduced? I figured the opposite would happen.
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Oct 13, 2009 15:37
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xanthig posted:Why turn this into a dick measuring contest? My point is, what constitutes hardship living overseas can vary greatly depending on one's experience prior to joining the state department. ProdigalSon's post accurately describes the perspective many expats living in Shitstania have of DoS employees. It may or may not be true to reality, but when your experience in Shitstania is making GBS threads in ditches, eating only local fare for months on end and maybe occasionally meeting another american once in a while, life behind the embassy wall looks cushy. My whole point is that you're still going to have some hardship, and yes, you can find yourself making GBS threads in ditches if/when you're outside the walls for personal or work related reasons. I understand that some posters here do know what hardship is... others may not, especially if you've only traveled to first world countries. Also, USAID also looks like really great opportunity from my interactions with them.
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Oct 13, 2009 18:40
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Business of Ferrets posted:Have you been hearing rumblings that State's funding will be reduced? I figured the opposite would happen. Oh no, I'm sure that you guys are good budget wise. But DoD's budget has grown for 9 straight years, it's going to end eventually. When it does I can see it trying to justify keeping some of the cuts by arguing about how much "civilian" work it does that should be done by non-uniformed parts of the government. State's budget is tiny - all of $15 billion give or take. And I can't see where budget cuts can even come in at seeing how you have so many fixed expenses.
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Oct 14, 2009 03:08
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Ah, that makes sense!
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Oct 15, 2009 02:44
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I have a quick question, I took the FSOT last week and have been preparing for the worst. My current plan has been to go to South Korea to teach English when I graduate from college in the Spring (that is if I don't actually make it through the whole FSO process). I've been planning on immersing myself in the language for a couple years, hoping I can know enough to use it as a tool when I try to apply for the FSO again. Would I rather just be better off going to China to learn Mandarin, or is Korean just as valuable a language to the state department?
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Oct 17, 2009 17:58
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GZA Genius posted:I have a quick question, I took the FSOT last week and have been preparing for the worst. My current plan has been to go to South Korea to teach English when I graduate from college in the Spring (that is if I don't actually make it through the whole FSO process). Mandarin is a "Super Critical Needs" language, and Korean is in the "Critical Needs" category. However, looking at the DoS's own site, the bonus you get for them is the same (.4). Not really sure why they make the distinction between the two if that's the case. At any rate, go for the one that interests you the most: you'll be required to serve in a country where it's spoken at least twice in your career if you get the bonus. If you're even semi-serious about the studying, it shouldn't take years to get the standard they're looking for. They're only looking for a 2 out of 5 (basiclly coversational-level stuff, not fluency), and only spoken at that. On the same token, don't get too cocky, you have to do it over the phone, and not having body language and other non-verbal cues makes it a lot trickier than a face-to-face interaction. Pompous Rhombus fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Oct 17, 2009 |
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Oct 17, 2009 18:23
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I took the FSOT two weeks back like a few others here. The test dates seemed designed to gently caress with me personally (last time it was offered just after a long flight from London to Tokyo, this time after I had worked a rough midnight shift), but I figured it would be better to take it unprepared, fail, and at least know what to expect for next time then to keep moving the goal posts further into the indeterminable future. Overall, the exam was easier than I thought, but I'm 50/50 on whether I passed or not. There were a lot of easy tech questions (not quite "what is a mouse" easy, but close), but also a fair amount of geographic/economic questions that I would have breezed through with a little studying. Oddly enough, I did worst on the biographic section-- to every "have you ever"-type question they asked, I responded with "yes I have, many times" and then attempted to provide a detailed narrative of every instance in memory. Three quarters through, I realize that my time management skills suck and I have 40ish questions left; my opus magnums become twitter posts as I desperately scramble to knock out the last few, only to run out of time with maybe 15 questions unanswered. The grammar section is easy if you have a good sense of 'what sounds right' and/or have any experience as an internet grammar nazi. I suspect the essay section's difficulty depends greatly upon the topic you're assigned-- I got a fairly easy one but still didn't really know what to say, so I skillfully blagged it and managed to get a full Intro-Body-Conclusion knocked out with time left over to review and edit. In a nutshell, the FSOT was easier than expected but still worth studying for (US Constitution, a little geography, basic econ, US history, etc); if I didn't pass this time, at least I know I can do it easily enough next time (hopefully after studying, eating a good healthy breakfast, and getting a decent night's sleep). *unrelated note: I got an automated email notification that DoS is accepting applications for Diplomatic Courier positions. If anybody wants to be the lovechild of Tom Hanks in The Terminal and Fry from Futurama, this may be for you! Suntory BOSS fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Oct 19, 2009 |
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Oct 19, 2009 16:32
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Suntory BOSS posted:*unrelated note: I got an automated email notification that DoS is accepting applications for Diplomatic Courier positions. If anybody wants to be the lovechild of Tom Hanks in The Terminal and Fry from Futurama, this may be for you! Yeah, I'm applying for that. Technically qualified, but as a recent graduate I'm pretty sure I basically have no chance. Still, I know I'd kick myself later for not at least trying. Also I'm going to quit putting off registering for the FSOT. I've been working it up to be something I need to study a lot more for, but I got a 17/20 on the practice thing that comes with the study guide, and even if I'm not likely to pass the Orals if I make that far, it's better to start getting as much practice/experience as I can.
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Oct 19, 2009 17:03
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Suntory BOSS posted:
I was considering applying for that as something to fallback on. But I'm not to sure if I take that job if it would be a good stepping stone into a better position in the DoS later.
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Oct 19, 2009 17:48
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Pompous Rhombus posted:
I felt the study guide was a lot more difficult than the test itself.
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Oct 19, 2009 18:19
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Gravel Gravy posted:I was considering applying for that as something to fallback on. But I'm not to sure if I take that job if it would be a good stepping stone into a better position in the DoS later. When I was sitting on the tarmac the other day waiting for the plane to take off, myself and a coworker were talking about the courier job... There's a chance after a career of being a courier, that you'd see most of the world... But, it would pretty much be international airports. There are a lot of Specialist positions I'd like to do... that's not one of them.
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Oct 19, 2009 19:26
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Vilerat posted:I felt the study guide was a lot more difficult than the test itself.  TCD posted:When I was sitting on the tarmac the other day waiting for the plane to take off, myself and a coworker were talking about the courier job... There's a chance after a career of being a courier, that you'd see most of the world... But, it would pretty much be international airports. It looks pretty interesting to me, and if nothing else, plenty of time to get caught up on my reading.
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Oct 19, 2009 20:52
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Pompous Rhombus posted:
Your job is literally 'being there'. I think most of the couriers have routes they manage and your job is fairly routine and you'd make a SHITLOAD of money with per diem (and depending if your office lets you pocket the rest if you stay at a lovely hotel that could be a lot) but drat gently caress that.
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Oct 19, 2009 21:26
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Vilerat posted:Your job is literally 'being there'. I think most of the couriers have routes they manage and your job is fairly routine and you'd make a SHITLOAD of money with per diem (and depending if your office lets you pocket the rest if you stay at a lovely hotel that could be a lot) but drat gently caress that. I'd never touch my per diem: I’d go to Craft Service, get some raw veggies, bacon, Cup-A-Soup— baby, I got a stew going. I read that "Inside the DoS" book that they offhandedly recommend and there was at least one entry from a courier. It would doubtless be a tough job to like if you were older/had a family, but honestly right now if I had the choice between that and FSO, I'd take the courier job.
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Oct 19, 2009 22:28
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Pompous Rhombus posted:I'd never touch my per diem: I’d go to Craft Service, get some raw veggies, bacon, Cup-A-Soup— baby, I got a stew going. They seem to be happy enough and as I said most are on a regular schedule so it's not like you have no chance of making a family situation work. You see a lot of retired people just sorta traveling the globe chillin' making silly money.
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Oct 20, 2009 01:19
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Also I'm going to quit putting off registering for the FSOT. I've been working it up to be something I need to study a lot more for, but I got a 17/20 on the practice thing that comes with the study guide, and even if I'm not likely to pass the Orals if I make that far, it's better to start getting as much practice/experience as I can. I think the conventional wisdom these days is to do your best on the FSOT the first time and to view it as a practice exam/learning experience if you don't pass. So I think you're on to something. And you might be pleasantly surprised.
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Oct 22, 2009 14:31
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Business of Ferrets posted:I think the conventional wisdom these days is to do your best on the FSOT the first time and to view it as a practice exam/learning experience if you don't pass. So I think you're on to something. And you might be pleasantly surprised. It seemed really easy, like to the point of being tough to fail.
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Oct 22, 2009 18:28
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SWATJester posted:It seemed really easy, like to the point of being tough to fail. I agree, but I (and I believe you, too IIRC) approached it from the perspective of having taken countless exams in the preparation for and execution of law school. I could see it being a bit tougher if I hadn't been deeply entrenched in where commas belong for the past 4 years.
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Oct 22, 2009 20:31
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Defleshed posted:I agree, but I (and I believe you, too IIRC) approached it from the perspective of having taken countless exams in the preparation for and execution of law school. I could see it being a bit tougher if I hadn't been deeply entrenched in where commas belong for the past 4 years. Law school was good for something other than debt? Who knew?
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Oct 22, 2009 21:43
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Muzungu! Nothing like getting called out during an entire driving trip near the border of Burundi.
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Oct 25, 2009 11:15
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I'm applying for the courier position too. I was actually looking through this thread to see if anyone had any information about it and saw that you guys were already at it. But yeah, any info anyone has? Would a recent grad with 3.5 years of computing lab work for his university and a summer working at an office in Beijing have a shot?
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Oct 25, 2009 19:18
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Barracuda Bang! posted:I'm applying for the courier position too. I was actually looking through this thread to see if anyone had any information about it and saw that you guys were already at it. But yeah, any info anyone has? Would a recent grad with 3.5 years of computing lab work for his university and a summer working at an office in Beijing have a shot? I dunno, I'm a recent graduate too and I rate my chances as being pretty grim despite two and a half years of study abroad. Probably 80% of my "I've got experience doing X" answers come from a single 3 month stint as a volunteer police interpreter overseas  Don't wait until the last minute to do the application, I had to redo my resume into the USAJobs format yesterday, and they've got a little survey/quiz on your experience that takes a little while. There's an autobiographical essay at the end (working on that right now) that lets you sell yourself outside of your resume/answers to the survey.
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Oct 25, 2009 20:22
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Oh, great heads-up. I'm actually having that resume service in SA Mart do mine right now, should have something today or tomorrow so I'll get on that. Thanks
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Oct 25, 2009 20:38
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 BLEEP BLOOP HURF DURFIf you want to be a world roaming IT guy your opportunity approaches! quote:UNCLAS STATE 110470
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Oct 27, 2009 14:52
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Hey vilerat, thanks for the advance notice  looks like I owe the popes toes a beer....
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Oct 27, 2009 15:12
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Vilerat posted:
Oh god Vile, you're getting another fresh wave of goons in the IMS track.
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Oct 27, 2009 18:31
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TCD posted:Oh god Vile, you're getting another fresh wave of goons in the IMS track. Slowly, quietly, the ranks of the United States diplomatic corps are being filled by goons.
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Oct 27, 2009 18:37
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Vilerat posted:Slowly, quietly, the ranks of the United States diplomatic corps are being filled by goons. Do you have stairs in your post?
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Oct 28, 2009 00:01
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Has anyone gotten their results from the test yet? It's exactly three weeks today and I'm getting really nervous. Do they only send a message if you've passed or will they send a "sorry you're terrible" message as well?
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Oct 28, 2009 17:28
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