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Is it fair to call TNA a WCW-lite now?
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Oct 29, 2009 19:10
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I think the awful finish of the elimination chamber was when he started losing his heart for the business.
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Oct 29, 2009 19:11
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They tried to make Goldberg their own wrestler by changing his entrance and attire and making him talk far more than necessary. All the crowd wanted to see was walk-spear-jackhammer. It took a few weeks for them to cotton on to this and by then it was too late.
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Oct 29, 2009 19:23
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The Cosby Mysteries posted:Why was Goldberg's WWE run so disastrous? I don't know if I would call it disastrous at all. He was only supposed to come in for a full year, so they built him up during the first half of the year with wins over The Rock, Jericho, and a few other people. Then they put him as a viable contender for Triple H, having them trade the title a few times and letting Triple H get some wins. Then I think the real purpose of Goldberg was to get Lesnar over at the end of his contract, which it sounded like Goldberg was completely fine with as long as he was getting paid. Then Lesnar wanted to go play football a couple of weeks before Wrestlemania, so they had no choice but to let Goldberg win but Austin go over both of them since they would both be gone the next day. I think the Goldberg run in WWE went as well as it could have, he never got stale or overstayed his weekend. He was brought in to provide fun matches and get a couple of guys over in the process, which he would have done fine if Lesnar had stayed around. Edit: He was never not getting big pops through out the whole year. I went to two ppvs in 2003 and a couple of Raws, and each time Goldberg came out the crowd went wild. These events were from the early Summer to the end of November, and I remember the pops on tv being pretty good as well.
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Oct 29, 2009 19:23
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Havoc904 posted:I don't know if I would call it disastrous at all. He was only supposed to come in for a full year, so they built him up during the first half of the year with wins over The Rock, Jericho, and a few other people. Then they put him as a viable contender for Triple H, having them trade the title a few times and letting Triple H get some wins. He probably would have stayed longer than a year if he liked his booking. But because he thought that WCW was how booking worked, he didn't work out with WWE.
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Oct 29, 2009 19:41
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:He probably would have stayed longer than a year if he liked his booking. But because he thought that WCW was how booking worked, he didn't work out with WWE. Oh yeah, I don't think he was necessarily happy to be around. But I also think that it worked out for the best that way. He got to do a small tour of the WWE for a year, didn't become too much of a shell of himself and the fans got to see him there most importantly. I wouldn't classify it as a disaster whatsoever though. It was a fun little run in the same vein as guys like Kevin Nash and Hulk Hogan (the first times), except Goldberg didn't keep on coming back for one more try and went out graciously. 2003 was an odd year though, because a good portion of it just seemed like farewell tours from WCW guys that weren't there for the invasion. Triple H/Nash for a few months, Hogan/Mcmahon for the first six months of the year, Goldberg/Triple H for the remaining six months of the year.
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Oct 29, 2009 19:48
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Is the scaffold match the most dangerous match type around? Taipei deathmatch? Inferno?
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Oct 29, 2009 19:56
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Sionistic posted:I think the awful finish of the elimination chamber was when he started losing his heart for the business. How'd it end?
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Oct 29, 2009 20:47
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ColeM posted:How'd it end? Goldberg dominated the poo poo out of everyone and lost to Triple H only after Flair handed Trips the sledge. Then Evolution cuffed him to the wall of the chamber and tee'd off on him. I really doubt this is what set off Goldberg specifically. He was probably pissed he had to feud with Jericho and Christian for half of his run and let so many heels get one over on him. Name Change fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Oct 29, 2009 |
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Oct 29, 2009 21:08
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Goldberg dominated the poo poo out of everyone and lost to Triple H only after Flair handed Trips the sledge. Then Evolution cuffed him to the wall of the chamber and tee'd off on him. Or it could have been the fact that he was just holding the title until Triple H fully healed? I just watched the match and Triple H did nothing but use the sledgehammer. It did make Goldberg look like a beast though. He speared Jericho through glass and booted through glass to get to Triple H and Orton can sell really well, too. Same with Shawn.
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Oct 29, 2009 21:21
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projecthalaxy posted:Is the scaffold match the most dangerous match type around? Taipei deathmatch? Inferno? http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=1232680
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Oct 29, 2009 21:33
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Chilly McFreeze posted:http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=1232680 This isn't a Punjabi Prison.
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Oct 29, 2009 21:54
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Havoc904 posted:I don't know if I would call it disastrous at all. He was only supposed to come in for a full year, so they built him up during the first half of the year with wins over The Rock, Jericho, and a few other people. Then they put him as a viable contender for Triple H, having them trade the title a few times and letting Triple H get some wins. You're forgetting that Goldberg basically sat out for a month and a half before WrestleMania. He had a structured contract that called for him to work x number of days and when that number was 1 away, he said that he wasn't working til WrestleMania. Most people would have worked that month (and gotten a daily rate based on what the contract said), but he didn't.
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Oct 29, 2009 22:40
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The Goldberg run is as simple as WWE not understanding how to book Goldberg and them arrogantly thinking he could get over if he just wrestled their style. I'd argue the 2001-04 period for WWE was the most disastrous period in their history just because of all the potential money they flushed down the toilet. The mid 90s have an excuse in that they really had no prospects for the future.
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Oct 29, 2009 22:45
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Captain Charisma posted:The Goldberg run is as simple as WWE not understanding how to book Goldberg and them arrogantly thinking he could get over if he just wrestled their style. Goldberg destroyed everyone he wrestled in WWE. Nothing was wrong with his booking. The only bad Goldberg match I saw was vs. The Rock, which was still a really good place to book Goldberg. Goldberg hates comedy matches and doesn't really "get" wrestling, for as long as he's been in it. If he wasn't used to having his way all the time in WCW, he'd probably still be in WWE right now.
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Oct 29, 2009 22:58
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The Goldberg/Triple H rivalry needed to rise, peak and finish, instead of dragging out like it did. Goldberg was a good choice to take the title away from Triple H, but he should have held onto it after that rather that it going back and forth.
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Oct 29, 2009 23:05
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Jerusalem posted:The Goldberg/Triple H rivalry needed to rise, peak and finish, instead of dragging out like it did. Goldberg was a good choice to take the title away from Triple H, but he should have held onto it after that rather that it going back and forth. I think a big part of the problem with that feud was that they completely disregarded what made Goldberg popular and a mammoth face for the crowd to rally behind: his invincible image. And they did it right later with Batista, so it's not like they didn't know how. People didn't want to see Goldberg being met with an equal in Triple H. They wanted to see Goldberg steamroll and demolish every obstacle Triple H tossed at him, demolish HHH and then HHH could connive and scheme a way to get his belt back. Why did Goldberg get booked the way he did while Batista got booked the way Goldberg should have? Because Triple H hated Goldberg personally? Because Triple H likes Batista? Because Vince has a bias against WCW guys? Because Goldberg rubbed people the wrong way by not even trying to act like a "team player" or some poo poo? Probably a little bit of truth to all of them.
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Oct 29, 2009 23:43
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Ok. Wrestlemania VI. Warrior vs. Hogan. Do the IWC really consider this a good match? We have Hogan and Warrior, two guys that the IWC really hates for being terrible workers. Yet I have heard it is a classic. I am in the middle of watching it (over a couple of days span), and I thought the "classic" Greco-Roman wristlock segment near the beginning wasn't that great and looked pretty bad. But that's just me. Warrior wins this match too. How did Hogan feel about putting someone over like this, since he is notorious for burying other wrestlers? Also...I haven't seen it but I have heard rumors, how bad was the "rematch" at Halloween Havoc 98? Edit: grammar.
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Oct 30, 2009 00:24
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The match is technically terrible, just like Rock vs Hogan at Wrestlemania 18. Just like Rock vs Hogan at Wrestlemania 18, it doesn't matter one goddamn bit how technically terrible the match is. It makes me feel like a kid all over again watching it, two HUGE stars going toe to toe and the crowd going absolutely loving batshit over it.
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Oct 30, 2009 00:27
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Jerusalem posted:The match is technically terrible, just like Rock vs Hogan at Wrestlemania 18. wrestlemania VI: where hacksaw jim duggan successfully got toronto to chant U-S-A.
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Oct 30, 2009 00:30
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Jerusalem posted:The match is technically terrible, just like Rock vs Hogan at Wrestlemania 18. Meanwhile Steamboat vs Savage from WM3 is fantastic in all regards.
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Oct 30, 2009 00:31
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crankdatbatman posted:Also...I haven't seen it but I have heard rumors, how bad was the "rematch" at Halloween Havoc 98? It was bad. It was bad.
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Oct 30, 2009 00:36
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Pneub posted:It was bad. It was bad. Oh BOY was it bad! Let me put it this way, as a kid you might have watched the unstoppable force of The Ultimate Warrior meet the Immovable Object of Hulkamania. You may have been enthralled and wondered what would happen if they ever met again. If you THEN thought,"I hope that they have a lovely match and use it give Hogan's boring, bald no-name brother a push that will never go anywhere because he's a useless waste of space!" then congratulations, you are WCW's Head Booker from 1998.
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Oct 30, 2009 00:39
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I don't blame Goldberg for not "understanding" wrestling. If you read his book, he basically did what he was told and was built into an "invincible" angle. The book ends before WCW ends, but I never took him for a smark. He just got into wrestling when the getting was good and became the #1 guy in the promotion pretty darn quick. I can imagine why he didn't care very much to learn more; he was rich and well-loved the way he was.
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Oct 30, 2009 00:42
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Jerusalem posted:Oh BOY was it bad! Horace was Hulk's nephew. If he was Hulk's brother, he might have been booked better and actually ever DONE anything.
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Oct 30, 2009 00:58
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Oh yeah, still loving stupid though.
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Oct 30, 2009 00:59
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Jerusalem posted:Oh yeah, still loving stupid though. he was also mike awesome's half brother or something.
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Oct 30, 2009 01:01
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Warrior/Hogan was a technical miracle considering the ability of the two men involved. But yes, none of that matters because of the SPECTACLE BROTHER. Also, Hogan kicks out right after the three count, presumably because he didn't want to put Warrior over TOO much.
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Oct 30, 2009 01:02
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Karmine posted:Warrior/Hogan was a technical miracle considering the ability of the two men involved. But yes, none of that matters because of the SPECTACLE BROTHER. the point of that three count was hogan took a chance with the leg drop, missed, and ultimate warrior just had a smidge more left in him than hogan. both dudes were taken to the limit. you have to remember that was the first time hogan had ever been cleanly pinned in the WWF since returning from AWA.
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Oct 30, 2009 01:04
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Is Izzy Mendelbaum in Jerusalem's Feast Or My Fired recap Bullet Bob Armstrong?
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Oct 30, 2009 01:09
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Jerusalem posted:Oh BOY was it bad! Horace actually got hired by WWF late in Hulk's run there. He was "The Predator" in 1993, but Hogan left soon after his debut, so Vince shipped him back to Japan to have fun in death matches.
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Oct 30, 2009 01:10
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Jason Sextro posted:Is Izzy Mendelbaum in Jerusalem's Feast Or My Fired recap Bullet Bob Armstrong? Indeed he is. Apparently Izzy might be in the Hall of Fame this year, or at least Vince was hanging the possibility over Scott Armstrong's head on Smackdown last week.
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Oct 30, 2009 01:11
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grody but still def posted:the point of that three count was hogan took a chance with the leg drop, missed, and ultimate warrior just had a smidge more left in him than hogan. both dudes were taken to the limit. you have to remember that was the first time hogan had ever been cleanly pinned in the WWF since returning from AWA. I guess but it still makes Warrior look kinda lame.
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Oct 30, 2009 01:11
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Hogan is good at putting another guy over while making himself the centre of attention. Like how he makes a big deal after his WM18 match of pointing at the Rock and calling for the (already cheering) audience to cheer for Rock, and then ends up doing all the classic Hulk poses with Rock. I'm sure Rock was delighted to do it and it was a boyhood dream to pose along with him, but Hogan managed to stay in the spotlight by doing it, and the whole post-match celebration ended up being all about Hogan.
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Oct 30, 2009 01:14
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Pneub posted:It was bad. It was bad. And it was so bad that they went on longer than originally scheduled and the satellite companies actually cut off service at the beginning of a main event match that people really wanted to see: DDP vs Goldberg for the World title. Then WCW thought they would give away the full match for free on Nitro to appease fans. It ended up pissing them off even more and WCW had to refund millions of revenue back to them. This would continue on for what we would call the steep decline of WCW.
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Oct 30, 2009 01:33
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ColeM posted:And it was so bad that they went on longer than originally scheduled and the satellite companies actually cut off service at the beginning of a main event match that people really wanted to see: DDP vs Goldberg for the World title. No, Bischoff made the call to have the PPV go longer as one of his "ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN" ideas and tried to alert the PPV companies... but some of them couldn't keep the PPV on longer. The refunds were a drop in the bucket in 1998 when they made 60 million in profit.
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Oct 30, 2009 02:02
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MassRayPer posted:No, Bischoff made the call to have the PPV go longer as one of his "ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN" ideas and tried to alert the PPV companies... but some of them couldn't keep the PPV on longer. The refunds were a drop in the bucket in 1998 when they made 60 million in profit. They might have made 60 million in profit, but this incident and killing Goldberg's streak was the beginning of the end, along with other issues.
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Oct 30, 2009 02:22
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The Hogan/Warrior rematch includes a spot wherein Hogan tries to drop an elbow on Warrior, but he rolls sideways, and then does it again, but he rolls the other way, and yet a third attempt, with yet a third roll, whereupon Warrior turns to offense and rolls straight into Hogan's shins, knocking him to the canvas. Oh, and Hogan throwing flashpaper at Warrior's face without lighting it. It's really, really bad.
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Oct 30, 2009 02:25
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Honestly, I don't think that WCW become unredeemably terrible until 1999. There were snafus, sure, but it was still generally worth watching in 1998/early 99.
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Oct 30, 2009 02:26
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CarlCX posted:The Hogan/Warrior rematch includes a spot wherein Hogan tries to drop an elbow on Warrior, but he rolls sideways, and then does it again, but he rolls the other way, and yet a third attempt, with yet a third roll, whereupon Warrior turns to offense and rolls straight into Hogan's shins, knocking him to the canvas. No he lit the flash paper, it just blew up in his face and not Warrior's.
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Oct 30, 2009 02:27
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