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For something like that, I'd recommend something like Fuzion rules set. It allows for you to plug in different elements as you progress, such as power armor and cybernetics.
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Oct 27, 2009 13:29
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Thanks, the Puyallup Barrens are EXACTLY what I'm looking for. Is there anywhere that has a decent layout of Seattle with all these kinds of things? The map in the SR4A shows North America but not anything specific in Seattle. Just figured it'd be nice to give the players (and me) perspective.
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Oct 27, 2009 15:31
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There used to be a great flash map around where you could click on each suburb and get all kinds of info on it, but the page is gone now (and archives didn't maintain flash functionality  )But there's an okay static map here
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Oct 27, 2009 16:45
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Catalyst Games released a couple of Seattle maps in PDFs in the run up to Runner Havens. They give you an idea where it's located in relation to Salish-Shidhe Council and Tir Tairngire.
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Oct 27, 2009 20:16
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I was always that guy that wanted to play Shadowrun in real life, but thought I was too cool for that nerd poo poo. I played the Genesis and SNES games while growing up, and I've read most of the paperback novels. I just read the forum FAQ's and it said I won't be able to join a game in progress, does anyone know when the next round is starting? Will I need to purchase the player's guide at the game store?
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Oct 28, 2009 00:44
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gookhole posted:I was always that guy that wanted to play Shadowrun in real life, but thought I was too cool for that nerd poo poo. I played the Genesis and SNES games while growing up, and I've read most of the paperback novels. I just read the forum FAQ's and it said I won't be able to join a game in progress, does anyone know when the next round is starting? Will I need to purchase the player's guide at the game store? Honestly, the 20th anniversary edition is worth buying even if you're not currently in a game. One of the best laid-out, best edited RPG books I've ever seen. Full color doesn't hurt either. The other stuff (Armory, Runner's Companion, etc) you can probably just get on Drivethru. Personally I prefer to flip through actual pages than use PDFs, but the price does kinda add up. Oh, and thanks for avoiding the 360 game.
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Oct 28, 2009 01:03
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404GoonNotFound posted:Oh, and thanks for avoiding the 360 game. But I liked the 360 game. Admitted, it could have been just as good without the Shadowrun name. . . I'll likely be buying the anniversary book. . . eventually. God I hate being broke.
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Oct 28, 2009 03:10
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lighttigersoul posted:But I liked the 360 game. Admitted, it could have been just as good without the Shadowrun name. . . Dystopia is kind of a cross between Counterstrike and Shadowrun. It's a futuristic cyberpunk game of Punks vs. Corps, where you can choose your weapons and equipment to be good at dealing damage, sneaking around, or hacking. The people fighting in meatspace will often find times when a decker needs to come along to unlock doors or change over a turret's IFF. If anyone who plays Shadowrun also enjoys FPS games, they should check it out. I'm typically on the Warrior Nation server, where my nick is the same as my SA username.
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Oct 28, 2009 04:16
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So, new game: What are good plots or game events you have experienced (or as GMs, written) when playing Shadowrun? I'm GM'ing a tabletop game set in Hamburg, and have some trouble fleshing out what I want to do. There is the city council, the shadow government, and a host of rad-groups and syndicates working with either the corps or the shadow govt. for control of the city. My current plot revolves around stealing the senate presidential chain, thus postponing the opening of the senate and letting corporate troops break up a series of government-supported strikes on their facilities. But I want to bring in even more mayhem, this whole pawn-in-corp/government war isn't, how do I put it, spicy enough. Any ideas are welcome!
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Oct 28, 2009 13:14
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I've always wanted to do a Wages of Fear/Sorceror-inspired campaign in Northern California. The players would be disgraced 'runners who are now finding work as mercenaries for the Native Californians, Humanis Policlub and rogue elements in JIS Army Intelligence, fighting against various TT Peace Force reservists or Tir-backed militias. The whole thing really is to put reasons to why Humanis and other human supremcist groups exists, instead of the cardboard cutout racists they're presented as.
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Oct 28, 2009 17:07
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I'm assuming when you say Shadowrun 360 you mean the Xbox360 game? I tried the demo and didn't even complete the tutorial, it was horrible. Wasn't that the last thing FASA put out before going bankrupt or something? I'll probably go to the nerd store today and pick up the 20th edition book but the problem is I'm going to want to play. If I nerd rage a bunch will people let me into their game? If not, how long does it typically take for a new campaign to start up?
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Oct 28, 2009 19:23
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Usually about one game every few months (or one a year that doesn't die in the opening scene while everyone's standing around the first meet describing their mirrored shades and trenchcoats).
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Oct 28, 2009 19:26
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I'm thinking that, seeing as the CYOA format works so well here on the forums, perhaps a Shadowrun CYOA featuring just one ice pro Shadowrunner against a runner city like Hong Kong or Seattle could be pretty interesting. Just let the players create whatever they want to, and then go from there with a covert ops, eco-shaman, drone rigger, mage or whatever - Shadowrun certainly has it's share of solo operatives, and perhaps that would make for a neater phase. I certainly love Ice Phisherman's Shadowrun CYOA, and was thinking in the same vein, just a bit more "hardcore" mission-solving inside the urban jungle. Also I've switched to playing rather than GM'ing in my tabletop game. I found the rules too hard to manage while keeping my players entertained, and I got to say that playing the game is fun as hell! Got to distract a horde of SWAT, blow a sewer to bits, shoot someone in the head and almost complete a run on top of it! 
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Oct 29, 2009 18:55
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Ryuujin posted:So I made a Free Spirit for a game, that unfortunately didn't get off the ground, but while making the character I found myself with some questions. I asked some questions at another forum but the answers I received seemed vague and uninformative, or simply surprising. Reposting this after about a week as I wasn't sure if anyone noticed it with all the smartgun debate going on. So anyone have any ideas?
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Oct 30, 2009 01:58
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Ryuujin posted:1. When a free spirit of the possession variety possesses a vessel do they use the vessel's stats plus their force like usual for a spirit, or do they use the vessel's stats plus their own stats? Ryuujin posted:2. For a free spirit how do you determine what powers in the free spirit powers' side bar are meant for which tradition? Ryuujin posted:3. What Karma generating/harvesting methods seem resonable? What is too excessive? An exmple I have heard is selecting a group of 20+ mages as a contact, perhaps for later initiation, and then making a pact such as drain pact, with them to harvest 1 karma each every month, or theoretically shorter intervals/larger karma investments per interval. This seems like something a GM would frown on, although a spirit without the Friendship pact will have no normal means to gain any karma. A free spirit needs a spirit pact to tie it to the physical world, but most for pacts the exchange of karma is optional; other PCs probably wouldn't agree to that, nor would an NPC if the GM is very smart. Ryuujin posted:4. How would you suggest actually building a free spirit under the normal 400 BP method? If you mean not spending the 250BP cost to be a free spirit, you should know that the cost is there for balancing reasons. Free spirits get a ton of advantages; for instance, they absolutely cannot be killed and the process of completely banishing them is pretty difficult. If your GM lets you build a free spirit without paying the cost, he'd better give the other player's some hefty advantages or you're going to be completely unbalanced with the rest of the party.
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Oct 30, 2009 04:32
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See I thought it would be the spirit's physical attributes added to the vessel's, but I had heard differently, so I was confused. Hmm Regeneration, Mutable Form and a few other powers had a dot that indicated they were available to all traditions, supposedly the other powers were not, yet it never indicated which of the other powers were for what traditions. The sidebar about the Friendship Pact seemed to indicate that free spirit PCs didn't gain karma normally unless they entered a Friendship Pact. As for the suggestions, it was just that, suggestions from more experienced players how they would build a spirit under the rules from Runner's Companion, 400 BP with the 250 BP cost to be a spirit.
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Oct 30, 2009 05:44
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Ryuujin posted:See I thought it would be the spirit's physical attributes added to the vessel's, but I had heard differently, so I was confused. Ryuujin posted:Hmm Regeneration, Mutable Form and a few other powers had a dot that indicated they were available to all traditions, supposedly the other powers were not, yet it never indicated which of the other powers were for what traditions. Ryuujin posted:The sidebar about the Friendship Pact seemed to indicate that free spirit PCs didn't gain karma normally unless they entered a Friendship Pact.
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Oct 30, 2009 06:27
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I don't have the book, but are the Free Spirit rules balanced? Even if it costs you 250bp to buy into, wouldn't you still be pretty much unstoppable if you had even a moderate activation dicepool and a few powers like Influence and Concealment? Some kind of never-seen dominator that can't be counterspelled. I suppose mages can summon the same things, but then, mages also have delicate little bodies that can be stabbed and shot.
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Oct 30, 2009 07:39
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children overboard posted:I don't have the book, but are the Free Spirit rules balanced? Even if it costs you 250bp to buy into, wouldn't you still be pretty much unstoppable if you had even a moderate activation dicepool and a few powers like Influence and Concealment? Some kind of never-seen dominator that can't be counterspelled. Like I said, free spirits can't really be killed except by completely stripping all its Force away (a difficult process) and banishing or disrupting is only temporary unless the banisher manages to bar the free spirit from the physical plain (also difficult). However, free spirits do have a few weaknesses. First of all, with only 150bp to spend and a lot to spend it on, they risk spreading themselves too thin. They need to buy up their Force attribute before they can raise any other attribute. Then, the Edge attribute is of huge importance to free spirits. Since free spirits owe no services, unspent Edge is taken away by banishing instead. Once they have 0 unspent Edge, they're stuck on their home metaplane until it replenishes. Disrupting them is as easy as dealing damage to any physical person; if they're materialized you can shoot them with a bullet, and if they're astral you can hit them with a spell. Fill up either their stun or damage tracks, and boom, the free spirit is stuck in his home metaplane until he heals all damage, which can take a while, sometimes a few days. And in either case, if the free spirit doesn't have a spirit pact (the book again specifically says Friendship Pact, but I'm pretty certain they mean any pact in general), they're stuck on their home metaplane for 28 days minus their Force. Speaking of disruption, don't forget that free spirits are astral (dual-natured when materialized), so even simple magical defenses such as wards and mana barriers can disrupt them if the spirit just passes through them. Disruption in this manner instantly fills the spirit's physical damage track, which must be healed before the spirit can return, just like above. When a free spirit is disrupted by having its physical damage track filled and the overflow damage is equal to or greater than their Willpower, they lose a point of Force, which would then reduce the maximums for all their other attributes and so can sometimes strip away points from, say, their hugely important Edge. Lose a point of Edge, and they lose a power point worth of critter powers. Another way to damage a spirit's Force is to go after his friends; if he has a Friendship Pact, kill anyone in it and the spirit instantly loses a point of Force. Oh, and the spirit's Essence is equal to its Force, and if it loses a point of Essence for any reason (such as from a vampire or blood spirit's essence drain), there goes a point of Force. And finally, in addition to whatever spirit pact(s) the spirit has to keep him tethered to the physical plane, he also needs to have his True Name imprinted on some physical object somewhere in the world. Most spirits guard this object jealously and go to great pains to hide it, because it's a huge liability for them. If someone unfriendly got their hands on it, it can be used to generate the free spirit's Formula, which can then be used for barring the free spirit from the physical plane or extracting services from the free spirit. All that isn't to say that free spirits aren't immensely powerful. They have some awesome powers and trying to exploit any of the above weaknesses can take some effort. Against physical damage, free spirits have Immunity to Normal Weapons (basically hardened armor), and against banishment they have Banishment Resistance. I'd say the 250bp cost is pretty much spot-on. Anyway, children overboard, you specifically mentioned the Influence and Concealment powers. The Concealment power is pretty good, but it's only for physical perception; astral perception will still see the free spirit like a glowing neon sign (aura masking can still, at most, make the free spirit appear to be a mundane metahuman, in which case it would stand out that you don't notice them with physical perception). The Influence power (as well as the spell) is kind of broken in itself, and isn't a symptom of the free spirit rules. With the Influence power, GMs should make liberal use of the Willpower test to resist bad commands and break the mental hold. Whew, I just typed a drat manifesto. Ryuujin, if you're playing a free spirit, I sure hope your GM isn't reading, or else I just gave him a ton of ideas. Edit: I was a bit tired last night. Had to make a minor but important correction: disruption only removes a point of Force if the damage overflows the spirit's physical damage track by their Willpower or more. McGravin fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Oct 30, 2009 |
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Oct 30, 2009 08:51
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Someone needs to save the post above me somewhere like dumpshock, it's pretty drat impressive and like 2 more paragraphs on other stuff about free spirits and you'd have a complete description on how to deal with them in your campaigns.
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Oct 30, 2009 10:25
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McGravin posted:Whew, I just typed a drat manifesto. Appreciated, though! Let us know how the gameplay goes, Ryuujin.
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Oct 30, 2009 10:42
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I'd like you to offer some advice for my weekly TT 4th ed. game: So for the tabletop game we're running I want to create a chronicle focusing on the power struggle in the city, between corps and government. What could be good runs, and how do I get the players entangled with a faction? Currently we have them stealing the senate's presidential chain for Saeder-Krupp, in order to postpone the opening ceremony and give the corp time to beat down a series of teamster strikes that the senate and connected rad-groups would support. How can I let the players know they work for Saeder-krupp, and what are good ways to get them to feel involved in the conflict? (only two PCs are native to the city it happens in).
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Oct 30, 2009 20:01
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I'm glad people found that post useful. Maybe I should do a similar one for the other almost-but-not-quite broken player type introduced in Runner's Companion: AIs. Of course, there's also Drakes, but I can sum up my advice on them rather quickly: "This poo poo is retarded. Don't allow PC drake characters." Tias posted:How can I let the players know they work for Saeder-krupp, and what are good ways to get them to feel involved in the conflict? But more seriously, I don't know. I'll think on it and see if I can come up with some stuff that helps. Can you give us any more background on the campaign? What city is this, again?
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Oct 30, 2009 20:14
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They know their fixer is affiliated with S-K, but for some reason haven't made the intuitive leap and at least guessed at the corp being the employer. Crude intervention works I guess, but I was trying for subtler hints. The game is set in Hamburg, Germany. It's a corp-sceptic free city rulled by a senate, but in reality controlled by an "old men's council" of powerful movers and shakers. The senate is afilliated with rad-groups of all sorts (mainly extremist left wing and a few racist ones too), and the council is afiliated with shadowrunners. I'm trying to get the players to eventually decide if they are pro-govt or pro-corp, but am stumped for good ideas as to how to do it.
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Oct 30, 2009 20:52
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Give them corp credits as reward for their mission or as prepayment. That should throw a HUGE red flag since corp cred can only be spent with the corp that issued it and thus is usualy only payed to runners by said corp. Or a parent corporation.
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Oct 31, 2009 13:14
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YOTC posted:is usualy only payed to runners by said corp. I've never seen my runners take it at face value that they're working for Evo just because they got payed in Evo scrip.
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Oct 31, 2009 15:07
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McGravin posted:Corp scrip might work for Tias' purposes, but this statement isn't necessarily true. Any given corp could buy up a few thousand credits worth of another corp's scrip on the market and pay their runners with it to cast some confusion as to who they're really working for. Well yeah, it's shadowrun, nothing is as it seems. You could always make the mr johnson have a briefcase with the S&K logo and be sipping his soycoffee out of an S&K mug.
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Oct 31, 2009 19:15
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YOTC posted:Well yeah, it's shadowrun, nothing is as it seems. You could always make the mr johnson have a briefcase with the S&K logo and be sipping his soycoffee out of an S&K mug.
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Oct 31, 2009 19:39
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It's poo poo like this that makes me love Shadowrun so drat much.
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Nov 1, 2009 03:09
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Finished the second game for the players last weekend, will probably do the third this weekend if we're lucky. The second and third runs have been/will be in areas that didn't have much public site/awareness/lone star involvement (an orc mafia neighborhood last time where everyone stays inside and no one talks, and the Puyallup Barrens next time) so the players could get a feel for combat and get used to the system without getting hosed over. After that it's much more strict and much more big cramped city oriented. Anyway, three quick questions: 1) When a player resists physical damage, does the resisted damage just not get counter or is it counted against stun still? If a player is hit by a sniper rifle and it ignores almost all of his ballistic armor thanks to the rifle/AP rounds, I feel like if the player gets lucky and resists damage he should still take SOMETHING from the shot. This is something I'm confused in by the rules. 2) Is there anyway people have found to wrangle up dice rolling? It's getting obnoxious that people are rolling 10-15 dice or so for their better skills and the next second dice are loving everywhere on the floor. 3) Maybe I roll like poo poo or maybe I can't figure out balanced combat (or both), but both games whenever the players get into combat it lasts maybe 3 rounds tops, where the players maybe take 1-3 points of damage but they manage to wipe out like double the amount of enemies. Should I just beef the enemies up or after the first three sessions should I take kid gloves off and start creating dickish scenarios with snipers, more traps, better guards/gangers/etc?
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Nov 4, 2009 21:16
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Fenarisk posted:Anyway, three quick questions: quote:2) Is there anyway people have found to wrangle up dice rolling? It's getting obnoxious that people are rolling 10-15 dice or so for their better skills and the next second dice are loving everywhere on the floor. quote:3) Maybe I roll like poo poo or maybe I can't figure out balanced combat (or both), but both games whenever the players get into combat it lasts maybe 3 rounds tops, where the players maybe take 1-3 points of damage but they manage to wipe out like double the amount of enemies. Should I just beef the enemies up or after the first three sessions should I take kid gloves off and start creating dickish scenarios with snipers, more traps, better guards/gangers/etc? Note though that combat in SR is often either trivial or a bad, bad, bad thing where the team needs to run or will die quickly (because multiple teams of a dozen Red Samurai have been dispatched). It is possible to make balanced combats, but that doesn't need to be the focus of the campaign and there are plenty of scenarios where taking out a half-dozen guards and escaping is a trivial task but still represents failure. Dickish combat scenarios should more often than not be the result of the Runners loving things up somehow- but if they do gently caress up badly (and they will) and haven't made contingency plans or don't get the hell out of there quickly you can and should bring the wrath of God down on them.
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Nov 4, 2009 23:43
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I've thrown the premade level 2 or so stats against them as either lovely security for their first run or as a group of dumb mafia wannabe orcs. I've never used any sort of bioware/cyberware or drugs, but they'll be going against a rival shadowrun team, drones, and a small group of mad max style gangers next session so hopefully it'll be more difficult. They have more of a handle on the system so I definitely think I can up the difficulty.
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Nov 5, 2009 00:08
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New Shadowrun game is recruiting! Just wrapping up the character creation rules and will post them in a minute.
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Nov 5, 2009 20:34
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So on the subject of contacts: My co-GM killed off the team fixer, and now I have to create one or several new ones for the team. Thing is, how does this work with karma and build points? They have spent about 5 BP each on the now deceased dude after all, so I've decided to give them a new one for free. But if I want them to have several fixers, or obtain new contacts in general, how is that handled? I'm thinking they just "get lucky" and I give them contacts free of charge. After all, if I charged them karma for it, it would be a bit too harsh, don't you think?
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Nov 5, 2009 21:23
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The BP cost for contacts represents your character's pre-game history with the person, spending time getting to know them and such, so it's really only for character creation. Once you're in game, gaining new contacts is entirely in the realm of roleplay. There's no karma cost for gaining contacts or improving contact ratings as part of advancement, because it's not part of advancement at all. So just throw a new fixer or fixers in there for them. Maybe they all get an email on their commlink from someone claiming to have been a business partner with their previous fixer, and all or part of a session is spent with the PCs vetting this guy to make sure he's legit and not trying to scam them or an undercover Lone Star officer. Or maybe just toss a half-dozen hooks in the water ("You've heard on the street that the bartender at Joe's Pub is always looking for someone who's good with a gun." or "Apparently Crazy Freddy the street preacher isn't so crazy and happens to know how to get in touch with a few Johnsons.") and let them figure it out. They can either choose to all go in together on one fixer or each investigate their own new fixer.
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Nov 5, 2009 22:35
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All good stuff, thanks. The next run is going to be keeping up with a bunch of fixers and choosing one to go with, I think. Also it's going to feature gangs a lot. Any of you know of good fiction or resources for cyberpunk gangs or gangs in general?
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Nov 9, 2009 23:26
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So I'm starting a Shadowrun game here on the boards and I'm looking for a bit of guidance. I want the game to prominently feature The Man--police, government, lonestar--as an antagonist, and I want to run the sort "all-seeing eye" of the modern wireless world as authentically as possible. Problem is I've always treated this element of the gameworld as secondary to the actual runs themselves, and sort of "assumed" away the difficulties involved in avoiding the law as legwork done by fixers and other contacts. Since I've always run games for newer players, I've always been willing to assume that their seasoned shadowrun characters are doing everything necessary to cover their tracks and focused more heavily on the breaking and entering and inevitable combat. What would be a good place to start reading--say in either the core books or maybe a decent online guide--to get a good sense of the different tools available in the cat-and-mouse game between runners and the law? This aspect of the Shadowrun world just seems so enormously huge that it's hard to get a good sense of how to run the system as the primary antagonist when there are so many options available. Maybe someone can just walk me through the kinds of preparations the saltiest, most veteran shadowrunner takes to avoid getting hacked or pinched and I'll go from there?
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Nov 10, 2009 00:15
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The Shadowrun Core book (at least the anniversary edition, which is what I got) covers it well in the fluff section in "the wireless world", and in the "security" section in the rule part of the book. I'm assuming arsenal and unwired has good stuff as well. fake edit: also you might want to consider asking over at the dumpshock forums, lots of enthusiasts there who can help with ideas. Real edit: Here's my take on what the real pros do to cover themselves: Get really well-crafted fake SINs and licenses. Above rating 4 and even Lone Star and the like won't always see through them. If they haul you back downtown to have some specialists look at it you're boned, but then again you never want to be caught. Have a gifted hacker on the team to blind surveillance. Without one, the omnipresent sensors, scanners and cameras in a secured facility WILL detect you sooner or later. Of course, high-end stealth technology helps here as well (ruthenium polymer coating, white noise generators, thermal signature-damping armor mods and camouflage cloaks all spring to mind). Avoid fights whenever possible. Witnesses, ballistic analysis and a chance crossref of that fake firearms license you pulled just might put you behind bars. Generally the police and corporate security are so good at what they do nowadays that any evidence will be enough to get at least some data on the perpetrator. Tias fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Nov 10, 2009 |
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Nov 10, 2009 00:52
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Woozy posted:So I'm starting a Shadowrun game here on the boards and I'm looking for a bit of guidance. I want the game to prominently feature The Man--police, government, lonestar--as an antagonist, and I want to run the sort "all-seeing eye" of the modern wireless world as authentically as possible. Problem is I've always treated this element of the gameworld as secondary to the actual runs themselves, and sort of "assumed" away the difficulties involved in avoiding the law as legwork done by fixers and other contacts. Since I've always run games for newer players, I've always been willing to assume that their seasoned shadowrun characters are doing everything necessary to cover their tracks and focused more heavily on the breaking and entering and inevitable combat. One observation I might make is that in the world of Shadowrun, it can sometimes be hard to harass a team of shadowrunners with Lone Star or the government, because there are so many places that are out of reach of those organizations. In my experience, runners typically live in areas with Z-level security or close enough to it. In other words, Lone Star doesn't go there on patrol and will laugh at you if you called them to report a crime. In those areas, the closest thing to "government" is whatever mafia or street gang exerts the most influence. And if that's where runners live, where they work is almost worse. Most runs are against the megacorps on and usually on megacorp property. Once the runners hop the fence, break into the building, or otherwise breach the perimeter, they have crossed a border into what is effectively another country. Megacorp extraterritoriality means that security doesn't need to call Lone Star if they don't want to; they can just deal with the problem themselves. Since runners are almost always SINless, the megacorp can even execute them if caught, and sweep it all under the rug if they want to, and no one will ever know. Most megacorps probably even avoid reporting break-ins and other incidents to avoid bad publicity. So that means you're going to have to take opportunities to harass the team in the only places they will feel threatened by Lone Star: on city streets and in public places. The government is even less of a threat than Lone Star, though. The UCAS is pretty hands-off with Seattle. The city is pretty much a city-state unto itself while the UCAS government worries about the rest of the states out east. Seattle city government can still be a force to be feared, but its unlikely they'll call in the military or anything like that. If I were you, I'd encourage the players to get fake SINs and fake licenses at character creation, go heavy on personal wireless security (have the hacker whip up some ICE, or else buy some off the market), and maybe take some high-loyalty contacts in Lone Star so they can get a tip off if a warrant is issued for their arrest. Of course, all that is good advice for any game of Shadowrun, really. If any of them take the SINner quality, your job just got a ton easier; exploit it ruthlessly. I might come up with some more stuff for you later. Edit: Tias, high five for pretty much the same advice! McGravin fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Nov 10, 2009 |
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Nov 10, 2009 01:15
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Tias posted:Avoid fights whenever possible. Witnesses, ballistic analysis and a chance crossref of that fake firearms license you pulled just might put you behind bars. Generally the police and corporate security are so good at what they do nowadays that any evidence will be enough to get at least some data on the perpetrator.
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Nov 10, 2009 01:25
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