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wixard posted:For what kind of music? Kick, snare, overhead would probably make the most sense for a lot of rock, where kick and snare are the biggest deal. If it's lighter or jazzier a kick and 2 overheads makes more sense, or maybe even a snare and 2 mics more in front or behind the kit than directly over it. quote:DAT is essentially CD quality, and as a medium is less volatile but less convenient. It's harder to gently caress up a DAT tape (without a magnet) but it's way less convenient to get data on and off of it (only works in real time... a 10 minute song takes 10 minutes to bounce to another medium, 80 minutes can come off your CD into a computer in 5 minutes). It's not very hard to find DAT tapes yet, a lot of video and location recording still uses them as backup if not primary record decks, but eventually it might be hard to get new ones. All we need now are the microphones! We'll be able to figure that poo poo out unless anyone has any recommendations for overhead drum mics.
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Nov 16, 2009 21:58
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This is really annoying the poo poo out of me. I've been using Ableton for ages, and I've got a pretty good workflow going, if I want to do something I can understand fairly quickly and intuitively where to go and how to get down parts quickly. I've recently tried moving to logic though, and it just sounds better. I dont know how, or why but I can spend ages trying to treat a vocal part in ableton so it sounds good, load up a patch in logic and bam, there it is. I think its that abletons built in effects are just sorta crappy, or more likely just user error but whatever, I've spent ages wrestling with them and I'd prefer to go with whatever sounds good right now. The only problem is though that it breaks. All the time. I'm getting weird cpu spikes that come out of nowhere and shut down the project. I tried googling the exact error I'm getting and all I'm seeing is a lot of vauge unhelpful advice and a couple of oh-what-the-gently caress-is-this-apple rants from people with similar problems. So its fustrating as poo poo, I've got the program I can work in, that dosent sound as good. Or the one that sounds great, but I cant trust. FFFFFF
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Nov 18, 2009 18:11
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Might not be the issue, but read Chapter 30 in the Live manual about optimizing sound quality, especially 30.4. One option would be to process the vocals in Logic, then load them back into Live. You can also look into VST plugins for Live if the built in effects aren't doing it for you. Have you tried contacting Apple about your Logic issue? Seeing as how you're using their App and OS, they should be able to figure out what's going on.
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Nov 19, 2009 07:27
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Are there any websites out there that go pretty in depth into production techniques? I wanna learn this stuff but I've nowhere to do so. Also, are there any free recording programs out there that can be used in some sort of semi professional way? I've tried audacity but frankly find it terrible. No VST support, overdubs are difficult for some reason, handles clipping in a really weird way, built in effects are awful. I'm prepared to spend a little bit of money if there's something slightly away from free that's pretty good. Money is super tight, however. In this age of open source development and poo poo there's gotta be something. Basically what I'm saying is I wish there was a free pretty bare bones recording program out there that has support for VSTs. I've heard there's a whole bunch of free VSTs out there that are pretty good too so if someone knows a website with a good collection, that'd be sweet.
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Nov 19, 2009 13:53
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mike12345 posted:I recently saw a video on mixing by Dave Gibson called "The Art of Mixing". It's from the 80's, but I guess there's some universal basis that doesn't get old. I really like the way he illustrates the use of depth and space. This video is great! It's covers a lot of stuff and makes it very easy to understand. The 80's cheezyness makes it a lot more fun to watch than any other instructional video I've seen.
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Nov 19, 2009 19:00
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cat doter posted:Also, are there any free recording programs out there that can be used in some sort of semi professional way? I've tried audacity but frankly find it terrible. No VST support, overdubs are difficult for some reason, handles clipping in a really weird way, built in effects are awful. I'm prepared to spend a little bit of money if there's something slightly away from free that's pretty good. Money is super tight, however. In this age of open source development and poo poo there's gotta be something. You are probably looking for Reaper. It's not "free", it's $60 for a personal license, but there's a very generous evaluation policy. Definitely check it out, but please support Cockos if you end up using it regularly, since they are awesome for developing such a good tool for such an affordable price. As for VSTs in general, Reaper comes with a decent set of general effects (available separately as the free ReaPlug bundle). The Kjaerhaus "classic" series plugins are also worth a look though I don't know that they've been updated in a few years. If you're looking for VST synths, there's so much out there and I don't know what you're looking for specifically. KVRAudio is the mega-site for all things VST, and there is an extensive review database, but there's also a lot of crappy synths out there, so be prepared to do a little digging around to find the gems. Synth 1 and Green Oak Crystal are both powerful and good-sounding free synths which have been around for a while.
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Nov 19, 2009 20:17
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mike12345 posted:I recently saw a video on mixing by Dave Gibson called "The Art of Mixing". It's from the 80's, but I guess there's some universal basis that doesn't get old. I really like the way he illustrates the use of depth and space. These are interesting, but does the vertical space, i.e. top to bottom, represent anything in these? Also, I have a general question that I've been reading around about. Is there any passable way to record an upright piano with just one condenser? The consensus seems to be "no" with the added notion that there are few good ways to record an upright in the first place. I can probably borrow another mic (although it wouldn't be a matched pair; maybe I should just rent a pair) if I have to but I just figured I'd ask.
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Nov 19, 2009 21:42
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It's less the vertical space so much as the "depth" of the "space" that the different elements are inhabiting in the sound stage. A lot of this has to do with the room you recorded the element in, and the reverb/delay and sometimes modulation that you apply to it. The simplest way to experiment with this is to take a mix of a band, and add a quick slapback delay to the lead vocal (10-30ms with 5-10% feedback, slightly attenuate the high frequencies in the wet signal). Mix the slapback so it's audible but subtle. Now A/B a mix with and without this effect. Close your eyes and ask yourself if the vocal sounds like it's close or further away from you than the other instruments. Now take a guitar or similar instrument. Double the track, panning one left and one right. Now put a delay on the right channel, set it to 100% wet and 0 feedback. Adjust the delay from 1-25ms and listen to how the guitar moves "forward" and "backward" in the mix. Depth in a mix works because your ears perceive distance from a sound by the different timing between when it reaches one ear vs the other. Panning limits this affect to the difference in distance of the two speakers from you. Using delays, modulations, and reverbs takes this to the next level by letting you increase and modify that delay time. EQing these micro delays and modulations can change how your ear imagines the space that the sound is made in. For instance your ear perceives higher pitched, longer reflections with empty rooms that have flat, reflective surfaces. Your ear perceives darker, shorter reflections with smaller rooms that have more stuff in them. This isn't just for reverb, it will work with a quick panned delay as well. Modulations such as chorusing, flanging, and autopanning can also be used to achieve these changes in perception.
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Nov 20, 2009 01:55
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Protools: Well, I've searched google about a thousand times in the past few hours, read the official documentation, watched the tutorial videos, and scoured youtube. I've done everything short of knocking on DigiDesign's office door and screaming at them. I've got protools and an Mbox 2 mini hooked up to my laptop. I make an instrument track and link the i/o to the mbox. I strum my guitar and I can hear it on my headphones, and the bar lights up. I enable the track to record. When I hit record and press play and strum, nothing happens. It starts recording a track, but no sound wave shows up and nothing is recorded. What am I doing wrong? I'm at your mercy, goons.
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Nov 20, 2009 03:18
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stuart scott irl posted:These are interesting, but does the vertical space, i.e. top to bottom, represent anything in these? The vertical space is the frequency spectrum.
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Nov 20, 2009 06:24
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Tsunami Redux posted:Protools: Make sure whatever device you're using to record is set in windows. In XP (yes I still haven't upgraded) that's in control panel, sound and audio devices, audio tab. It's a relatively small thing but I've seen a lot of people miss this.
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Nov 20, 2009 09:36
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Instrument tracks are for MIDI. You need an audio track.
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Nov 20, 2009 18:22
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RivensBitch posted:It's less the vertical space so much as the "depth" of the "space" that the different elements are inhabiting in the sound stage. A lot of this has to do with the room you recorded the element in, and the reverb/delay and sometimes modulation that you apply to it. Thank you for all of this. I had a decent understanding of these concepts but this is a good perspective on it, it's helpful because I have a hard time with reverb - how much of it to use and when. stairway to hippo posted:The vertical space is the frequency spectrum. Thanks, you'd think I'd have figured this out what with the kick drum and the bass always near the bottom.
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Nov 20, 2009 19:35
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h_double posted:You are probably looking for Reaper. It's not "free", it's $60 for a personal license, but there's a very generous evaluation policy. Definitely check it out, but please support Cockos if you end up using it regularly, since they are awesome for developing such a good tool for such an affordable price. Thanks for this, btw! I've just been fiddling with reaper for a few hours and I'm already loving it. Everything feels so intuitive. Will have to see how it holds up after I throw a million guitars at it.
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Nov 20, 2009 20:36
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Wow, I'd never heard of Reaper before. That definitely looks worth a shot.
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Nov 20, 2009 23:29
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Hello kind fellows on page 61. So I just got this mbox recording setup from musiciansfriend: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Digidesign-Pro-Tools-Mbox-Mini-Package?sku=702525 The only thing I could afford that seemed pretty complete and nifty. I'm pretty excited. I got "Producing in the Home Studio with Pro Tools: Third Edition" and have a keyboard with a A to B usb cable thingy. Is that faster or worse or better than a midi to usb cable thingy? So is there anything I should know before delving head-first into protools and recording in general? Besides sitting in on a few sessions of friends this will be my first hands-on experience. Total newbie. Any advice would be lovely.
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Nov 22, 2009 22:07
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xcvb posted:Hello kind fellows on page 61.
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Nov 22, 2009 23:41
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Schlieren posted:Am I missing something or do you not have an interface for your computer to connect to your keyboard anywhere? That M-Box looks like it's configured for 1/4" / SLR jacks only? Or am I just assuming this because my own MIDI interface is SPDIF only. . . I believe his keyboard connects to his computer via USB. That's how mine (Axiom Pro) works. Why would a MIDI interface use SPDIF out of interest? I've never heard of that before, I thought it was used for audio.
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Nov 23, 2009 01:54
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So I just got Logic 9 and a Mac and was wondering how you are supposed to learn to use this...I always assumed there'd be tutorials and stuff since it's Apple and they're supposed to hold your hand, but there's nothing. I can just poke around I guess but I'd rather have something help me learn.
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Nov 24, 2009 02:17
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chippy posted:Why would a MIDI interface use SPDIF out of interest? I've never heard of that before, I thought it was used for audio. Whoops, those were the MIDI input / outputs, not the S/PDIF ones hehe egg on my face   (the two on the left)
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Nov 24, 2009 06:01
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Rashomon posted:So I just got Logic 9 and a Mac and was wondering how you are supposed to learn to use this...I always assumed there'd be tutorials and stuff since it's Apple and they're supposed to hold your hand, but there's nothing. I can just poke around I guess but I'd rather have something help me learn. You should look here: http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/resources/ Note all the downloadable PDF manuals on the lower right. Also, this is a serious and very complicated program. They're not going to hold your hand. If you're coming from GarageBand, there's also this: http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/how-to/ That being said, if you have one good day with the manuals, you can probably nail down the basics pretty quickly (I'm caught in the Pro Tools to Logic 9 learning curve myself, and haven't had time to really work with it yet).
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Nov 24, 2009 15:07
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I got it "pre-installed" which I guess was a bad idea because it didn't come with any of the manuals or anything. I did find them online; thanks for the link. I'm coming from Pro Tools LE 8 as well, and I've used Live a bit, so I'll be on top of it pretty quickly I think. But I made the financial investment so I want to master Logic as thoroughly as possible.
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Nov 24, 2009 16:37
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It has probably been discussed somewhere in this thread but 60+ pages of reading with only a slight chance of getting an answer isn't up my alley, so I'll just add this on here: I'm interested in getting a Digital Audio Workstation for my computer. I am very well-versed in Pro-Tools, in fact that's basically what my college degree is in, however at this current time, I own a PC, and I don't want to buy Pro-Tools until I get a Mac to use exclusively for Pro-Tools. Can someone recommend me a good (or a couple of good) DAW's that are available for PC?
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Nov 25, 2009 19:18
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Okay, so I'm retarded and thought that DAT was capable of 8-track simultaneous recording but I guess it isn't so I need an ADAT recorder. And I guess I'm ULTRA retarded because I don't know how to hook one of those things up to a mixing board. All the Alesis ADATs I've seen have RCA inputs in the back (unless I'm seeing it wrong), so would I get a 1/4" -> RCA cable for each of the channels on the mixer? Someone walk me through this; I'm a big dumb baby 
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Nov 25, 2009 22:12
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scuz posted:Okay, so I'm retarded and thought that DAT was capable of 8-track simultaneous recording but I guess it isn't so I need an ADAT recorder. And I guess I'm ULTRA retarded because I don't know how to hook one of those things up to a mixing board. All the Alesis ADATs I've seen have RCA inputs in the back (unless I'm seeing it wrong), so would I get a 1/4" -> RCA cable for each of the channels on the mixer? Someone walk me through this; I'm a big dumb baby Are you talking about an HD24 or something similar? Or the kind that records onto SVHS tapes? These look like 1/4" TRS inputs to me. You would just run TRS cables from the line outs on your mixer, or the insert points if it doesn't have line outs. I believe the older models have the same setup. 
rockear fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Nov 25, 2009 |
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Nov 25, 2009 22:19
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That's way too spendy for what we have in mind  I was thinking more along the lines of the ADAT LX20 that records on SVHS tapes. They all have phono jacks on the back. I was reading the LX20 manual and it says in there that the direct out on most mixing boards will work with it, but that the direct out bypasses most of the mixing features. Does this include the mic pres? I am so befuddled by all of this. If I had to guess, I would say that you would just record to the ADAT, then when you want to do the mixing, hook the "channel out" for each channel up to the "line in" on the mixing board, then fiddle around with levels until you're happy. After you've got the levels where you want them, you would bounce it down to 2-track via the mixing board's "tape out" jacks, right?  I can't believe I'm this dumb after a semester of recording college. They didn't really teach us any of this poo poo, though, but I was going through the productions program, not the studio engineer program (I'm dumb).
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Nov 25, 2009 22:41
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scuz posted:I was reading the LX20 manual and it says in there that the direct out on most mixing boards will work with it, but that the direct out bypasses most of the mixing features. Does this include the mic pres? I am so befuddled by all of this. If I had to guess, I would say that you would just record to the ADAT, then when you want to do the mixing, hook the "channel out" for each channel up to the "line in" on the mixing board, then fiddle around with levels until you're happy. After you've got the levels where you want them, you would bounce it down to 2-track via the mixing board's "tape out" jacks, right? That all looks right to me. The mic pres will definitely work. EQ, phase reversal, mute, solo will probably work, depending on what kind of mixer you're using. Even if the processing stuff doesn't work when you're tracking, it will work when you're mixing, which is when you'll really need it anyway.
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Nov 25, 2009 23:38
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scuz posted:stuff You want to watch out buying old ADAT machines because at this point they are really old. If they still work they often have 10s of thousands of hours on the heads and can die at any time. Read through the manual and find out how to make the unit display the number of hours on the heads and examine whatever you buy beforehand. It displays in hours, not minutes (I've seen either shady or clueless sales people tell people it was minutes in retail stores). Yes, ADAT machines are unbalanced RCA inputs. You'll want to use as short a cable run as possible to minimize possible interference. Direct outputs are (usually... depends on the console) directly after the preamp so everything on the channel strip except the preamp gain does nothing. Sometimes the mutes do cut them off, sometimes the EQ goes to the DOs, sometimes inserts do as well so read up on your mixer and/or experiment to find out how yours works. You might want to look for used Tascam DA-38 or DA-88 machines which are the same general idea as ADAT except they're more recent, 24 bit (most ADAT machines are 16 or 20), and they use HI-8 tapes instead of VHS. Many studios and location recording companies still use them to generate timecode, if not to actually record, because they are tanks and run forever. They also have balanced inputs, although they are DB25 inputs and outputs (like oldschool printers) on the back so you'll need to buy or make a whip for DB25 -> TRS or XLR jacks to use it. AngusOwnsYou posted:I'm interested in getting a Digital Audio Workstation for my computer. I am very well-versed in Pro-Tools, in fact that's basically what my college degree is in, however at this current time, I own a PC, and I don't want to buy Pro-Tools until I get a Mac to use exclusively for Pro-Tools. Can someone recommend me a good (or a couple of good) DAW's that are available for PC?
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Nov 26, 2009 00:01
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wixard posted:Why do you want to wait? Unless they changed the license in Pro Tools 8 you can download both the Mac and PC versions and install it on as many computers as you want, you just can't use it without the hardware plugged in. I have PT 7 installed on the OSX and XP partitions of my laptop, and my desktop. You, fine poster, have answered another question I meant to ask. Good to know I can do that. Now, the only question that remains is what kind of M-Box to get.
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Nov 26, 2009 00:33
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rockear posted:That all looks right to me. The mic pres will definitely work. EQ, phase reversal, mute, solo will probably work, depending on what kind of mixer you're using. Even if the processing stuff doesn't work when you're tracking, it will work when you're mixing, which is when you'll really need it anyway. wixard posted:You want to watch out buying old ADAT machines because at this point they are really old. If they still work they often have 10s of thousands of hours on the heads and can die at any time. Read through the manual and find out how to make the unit display the number of hours on the heads and examine whatever you buy beforehand. It displays in hours, not minutes (I've seen either shady or clueless sales people tell people it was minutes in retail stores).  Making the whip sounds like it'll be fun, and luckily the DA-38 seems to be more within our price range anyhow. scuz fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Nov 26, 2009 |
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Nov 26, 2009 03:57
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scuz posted:Sweet! I'll just have to take a look at the block diagram for whatever board I get to see where the direct out is. To be all-inclusive when looking for deals Tascam made a DA-38, DA-78, DA-88 and DA-98, then the last 2 had HR (hi-res I guess) models that did 24-bit. They also manufactured one called a PCM800 for Sony that is basically identical to DA-88s I think. I've used all of these except the DA-98 and the Sony (that Tascam manufactured), mostly DA-38s and DA-78s. Even though I do almost no recording anymore, I still see them at least once a year because I do a huge 4th of July show and they use DTRS to output the music and countdown cues for the fireworks. To check the hours on them you hold down play and stop then power up the unit on DA-38s, but there might be a menu to get to it on some models. The pros will tell you that you need to replace the heads every 1000-1500 hours ($$$ if you can still find anyone to even do it...). Of course they will often run fine longer than that, occasionally shorter than that, but that's the rule of thumb. It also depends on how well and how often they are cleaned and what kind of tape they were used with (you always want to buy tape with the DTRS logo on it). The most annoying thing about Tascam DTRS machines is that they use a protocol called TDIF for digital I/O. Although ADATs fell out of favor in studios way before DTRS, for some reason their 8-channel digital I/O format (TOSLink, usually just called "ADAT") caught on and is what is commonly used on audio interfaces and even for home theater now. If at some point you wanted to transfer all of your DTRS recordings to hard drive you pretty much need a device Tascam made called an IF-TAD if you want to avoid another generation of A/D conversion. They're generally $100-$200 used by themselves. http://www.silentway.com/88.html <-- This guy loves him some DTRS and has lots of useful info. He seems to prefer DA-88s. I guess essentially, you should keep an eye out for deals on either DTRS or ADAT and keep hours in mind for both of them, but DTRS machines are much more highly regarded in the pro world. Anyone I know that still has ADAT machines just arms the tracks and uses them as A/D converters rather than actually running the heads. With respect to the console, you can use insert points as direct outs by pushing the connector all the way in, then pulling it out until you hit the first "click." This will not be a balanced signal (doesn't matter if your recorder input is balanced, but just so you know). Probably not a solution you want to use if you're buying a console just to record with though... Sorry, I'm not much help when it comes to small format mixers, especially on a budget. That's the only one I ever use sometimes. 
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Nov 26, 2009 05:31
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scuz posted:So I have no clue what 8-channel mixer to get now, gently caress. If you're trying to get away dirt cheap, which it sounds like you are, I think Yamaha is pretty hard to beat on price to performance. Their MG series mixers are barely more expensive than Behringer stuff and sound quite a bit better in my experience. Peavey has a line of small mixers that might be worth a look too. If you're willing to spend a little more Allen and Heath, Soundcraft, or Mackie are all solid choices. If it doesn't have to be particularly portable, you can find old Carvins, Studiomasters, and Yamahas on craigslist all the time for under $200 that will do the job.
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Nov 26, 2009 22:06
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Thanks for all the pointers, guys. I've really learned a bunch in just the last page Well it looks like we're looking at around $600 for a decent ADAT or DTRS and the mixer, and we still need microphones (which I'm much better at, thank god), so I'm thinking if the budget were around $1,000 we'll be able to get by.
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Nov 26, 2009 23:56
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Why are you throwing away good money on 15 year old technology that will sound terrible when for the same (or less) money you could invest in 5-10 year old technology that would sound 100x better and be 100x more reliable? What possible advantage could you have with the setup you're describing compared to a setup like this?
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Nov 28, 2009 19:18
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RivensBitch posted:Why are you throwing away good money on 15 year old technology that will sound terrible when for the same (or less) money you could invest in 5-10 year old technology that would sound 100x better and be 100x more reliable? Now to remember my ProTools training.
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Nov 29, 2009 03:10
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Are there any decent alternatives to the Casio DG-20? I've been looking at the EZ-AG and EZ-EG and I think they might be. Another question for anyone who has used these devices, are they flippable for south paws?
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Nov 30, 2009 21:57
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Is there an easy way to transfer files from Pro Tools LE into Logic? The obvious thing to do is to run off each individual track from the LE sessions as a .wav file. That will take us weeks. Would the PTLE command "consolidate regions" be helpful? Does that create wav files for each track? If so, that might work, since all we need are the raw tracks themselves. Anybody know? edit: a little research convinces me that consolidation is the way to go. I guess I'll leave this here for others with the same question. El Miguel fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Dec 1, 2009 |
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Dec 1, 2009 15:28
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I'm entirely new to this, but I'd like some relatively decent way to record vocals/acoustic guitar and to learn how it all works. Would the below be a good start or am I going down the wrong track? http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/steinberg-ci2-project-studio-pack--70103
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Dec 1, 2009 21:20
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Hey can anyone help -- is there a reason my firebox light goes blue for a second, and then red on my mac, and it doesn't recognize that there is anything connected? Presonus tells me there are no drivers to install.
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Dec 1, 2009 21:43
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Rashomon posted:Hey can anyone help -- is there a reason my firebox light goes blue for a second, and then red on my mac, and it doesn't recognize that there is anything connected? Presonus tells me there are no drivers to install. Is it set up as a Core Audio device? There might also be a separate set-up within Logic itself for it (I don't know--my new interface won't be here until tomorrow, so I haven't had to set it up yet).
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Dec 1, 2009 23:38
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