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Mister Fister posted:i'm seriously considering this. Sure thing. If you're comparing the two Revo models, then your prime concern is really just going to be figuring out the cost of a Windows 7 license if you don't already have one. You're really going to want to ditch XP with the quickness and install Windows 7 regardless, for the added DXVA support, the added stability over XP, and maybe even the free integrated Media Center if you decide to ditch XBMC one day and try something new. Most people ignore the other supposedly value-added differences between the two models, like mini speakers or wired vs. wireless mouse and keyboard. If you're adding a Revo to a home theater system, then you would obviously already own speakers, and you also won't be using the keyboard and mouse much *anyway* since you'll be able to control XBMC / WMC / What-have-you with any 10-buck MCE remote control. Once you get the machine set up (i.e. log on without password option selected, do not ask for password when returning from standby option selected, etc. etc.), the keyboard and mouse get put away. Basically, they sweeten the pot on a 330-over-the-230 purchase with a lot of poo poo people just don't need. Also consider that both the single core and dual core ION machines offer flawless 1080p playback regardless, so truthfully the 330 device really doesn't offer much added punch. Add together the cost of an Atom motherboard with ION, a small HTPC case, a stick or two of DDR2 RAM, a 160 GB hard drive...you're probably well past $200 at that point. And if so, then a Revo is probably for you. If you plan on adding an expensive PCI Express HD tuner, maybe a poo poo-ton of hard drives for serving media, and wrap it all in your own custom case, then you you're going to want to go the significantly more expensive Atom + ION motherboard + custom components route. Regarding wireless 1080p streaming, I couldn't get it to work well on my home network and had to resort to traditional wired ethernet for consistent throughput. Not a big deal if you're already wired up or if the router and playback device are in close proximity, but maybe kind of a big deal after all if you're looking at running long strands of CAT-5 cable throughout your house.
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Dec 9, 2009 19:33
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Crackbone posted:How are you fighting W7MCE and MKV files? It's not that hard. I have seen that post and actually used the .reg as one of my tests since as far as I could tell my codecs were installed properly. A few minutes after my post, I managed to find the real problem. I'm on a 64 bit install of W7, but CCCP is apparently 32 bit only. I thought I had MPC-HC x64 installed, but it was in fact the 32 bit version, and WMP was launching in 32 bit mode as well. MCE however was launching as 64 bit, so the 32 bit MKV splitter didn't do anything useful for it. I dug around and found a 64 bit copy of Haali's splitter and now the MKVs will play, but they still won't thumbnail. This machine's been acting up though, so it'll probably get closeted and replaced by a dual core Ion machine + XBMC on Linux in the near future, solving all of my problems and shrinking a full power-hungry tower to a nettop.
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Dec 9, 2009 19:53
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I know this is far fetched, but has anyone figured a way to mimic the hd homerun's features and have just a tuner sitting on the network? Even better, I really just want to have a larger computer with multiple tuners/harddrives for tuning and storing recorded shows and to be able to play them back on either a windows MCE or xbmc. It'd also be nice to be able to schedule recordings on xbmc/revo setups throughout the house and be able to watch them on any tv. I know I'm going way overboard, but any new on comskipping?
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Dec 9, 2009 19:53
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Fist of Fury posted:Sure thing. If you're comparing the two Revo models, then your prime concern is really just going to be figuring out the cost of a Windows 7 license if you don't already have one. You're really going to want to ditch XP with the quickness and install Windows 7 regardless, for the added DXVA support, the added stability over XP, and maybe even the free integrated Media Center if you decide to ditch XBMC one day and try something new. thanks for the info. one more question, does the xbmc/revo setup allow for higher quality surround sound/HD audio type output? edit: also, how are you guys installing windows 7 without an optical drive? External drive? Mister Fister fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Dec 9, 2009 |
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Dec 9, 2009 22:22
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Mister Fister posted:thanks for the info. one more question, does the xbmc/revo setup allow for higher quality surround sound/HD audio type output? The Revo does uncompressed 24-bit sound through the HDMI port. Since that's handled at the driver level, Win7 + XBMC would take advantage of that. No idea about a Linux XBMC install. It may involve minor witchcraft, the sacrifice of a neckbeard during the harvest moon, and a mantric chant meant to invoke Linuxothor, God of Linux Installations, before that poo poo ever works. The Revo also does traditional analog audio through a headphone jack in the back. As far as installing without an optical drive, you can get around that restriction in a number of ways. I use something like this with an internal-converted-into-external desktop DVD-ROM drive that I already have on hand for netbook installs. It's basically a cheap way of getting a DVD drive attached to the system without cracking anything open. Perfect for OS and driver installs. When you're done installing the OS, you just disconnect it and store it away. Wouldn't use it as a permanent solution. If you're Super Cool, you can also use some iso tools that will let you install that Win7 disc onto a flash drive and make the flash drive bootable. There are probably a bunch of tutorials floating around the net and maybe even some hassle-free all-in-one freeware that will do the conversion and making the drive bootable thing for you. Once you get the OS itself installed, look into drive sharing software. Kind of a cool new thing, it lets you treat the optical drive in a another computer on your network as though it's the optical drive in the netbook / nettop / whatever else. I personally don't find it too challenging to just set up Windows sharing so that it shares the drive letter of the optical drive anyway, but whatever. Point is, you have lots of options here. Fist of Fury fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Dec 9, 2009 |
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Dec 9, 2009 23:14
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wooooo thanks, i guess i'm getting myself a christmas gift this year 
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Dec 9, 2009 23:33
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Get in while you can: Today's Woot is an ATI HDTV tuner card, perfect for adding that one extra recording channel to your setup or for introducing your traditional NTSC-based HTPC to the Wonders of OTA HDTV. I went with the PCI model, as it's more fully-featured, and I tend to be paranoid about dedicating the only PCI express slot on a motherboard to a tuner and limit the possibility of future graphics card expansion.
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Dec 10, 2009 18:51
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Feature article over at the NY Times about HTPCs and Boxee: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/technology/personaltech/10basics.html
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Dec 11, 2009 13:08
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Dobermaniac posted:I know this is far fetched, but has anyone figured a way to mimic the hd homerun's features and have just a tuner sitting on the network? Even better, I really just want to have a larger computer with multiple tuners/harddrives for tuning and storing recorded shows and to be able to play them back on either a windows MCE or xbmc. It'd also be nice to be able to schedule recordings on xbmc/revo setups throughout the house and be able to watch them on any tv. I know I'm going way overboard, but any new on comskipping? MythTV does pretty much exactly this. XBMC supports directly communicating with MythTV backends, and there are also Windows and OSX MythTV frontend ports available. You just have to have some competency with linux in order to setup and run the backend. edit: one of the best features of Myth (IMHO) is the automatic commercial detection. You can configure the frontend player to automatically skip commercials during playback which makes for hands-free commercial-free playback. The detection isn't perfect, but it's pretty drat good (especially on digitally captured sources) edit2: nice, release .22 finally came out. I know what I'm gonna be working on tomorrow vanilla slimfast fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Dec 11, 2009 |
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Dec 11, 2009 18:09
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Cross-posted from the HTPC front-end thread: I got ahold of the Boxee Beta, not sure if it's alright to post it on the forums though. Would a free but closed-beta program count as  ?EDIT: I PM'd a mod, but here's a few screen shots I grabbed. The way in integrates all your videos into one interface now is very slick. Keep in mind, all these shots were with nothing added to my library yet, it's pooled the videos from Netflix and Hulu.          This was all tested on my 27" iMac so there were no problems, but I'm going to get it installed onto the Revo tomorrow and see how the performance is. From what I'm seeing so far, I'm going to be ditching XBMC real fast here. FCKGW fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Dec 12, 2009 |
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Dec 12, 2009 12:08
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I currently have an old gaming rig pulling duty as an HTPC. As such, I like to put it into standby when I'm not using it, because that thing eats power. I've got a Snapstream Firefly remote that I'm using with it. I'm trying to figure out if I can get wake on USB to work with the remote, but google returns threads saying no from 2006. Given it's been a few years, I'm hoping someone here may have something new. If not, can you recommend a good remote to use with XBMC that will pull the machine out of standby when I hit a button? I plan on replacing this machine anyway as soon as I can, probably with the Acer Aspire Revo, but I'm open to ideas on that too. All the media is being served from elsewhere in the house.
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Dec 12, 2009 16:54
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BorderPatrol posted:Cross-posted from the HTPC front-end thread: Boxee looks great. Let us know how it operates on the Revo and your specs on the Revo.
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Dec 12, 2009 17:01
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HMmmm i may hold off my purchase of the Revo until i get your review of the Boxee on the Revo, thanks borderpatrol 
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Dec 12, 2009 17:13
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Question about the audio for the Revo. I have a receiver but it doesn't have any HDMI inputs, so I guess I'd have to go from the headphone out to a red/white analog cable. In doing so, am I losing the 5.1 signal?
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Dec 13, 2009 02:04
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Strict 9 posted:Question about the audio for the Revo. I have a receiver but it doesn't have any HDMI inputs, so I guess I'd have to go from the headphone out to a red/white analog cable. That will only get you stereo. You need optical/digital coax sound at minimum for 5.1. Analog multi outs work too.
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Dec 13, 2009 02:33
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I haven't gotten a mod to PM me back yet, but what the hell. I uploaded the Boxee Beta to my site here. Welp, was fiddling with the Beta on Windows on the low-end $199 Revo R1600. This is the unit with the single-core atom and ION LE chip. I did a wipe of the drive and installed Win XP on the unit, but had issues trying to get HDMI audio and proper playback working. I had no sound to the TV, and the video playback was dropping frames. This was with a regular plain XP cd, so I think if I would have stayed with the factory installed image I would not have had any problems, or at least had a lot fewer of them. I ended up wiping the drive again and installing Windows 7 on the unit instead. Windows picked up all drivers automatically through Windows update and installed the correct nVidia HDMI audio drivers, and installed the ION drivers by itself as well. Two restarts and everything was recognized and working fine. The installation took a bit longer than a normal Boxee install. It took about 15 minutes to install the software, the vast majority was the program downloading various DirectX files and installing some updates dating back to 2006. Playback on local media content was perfect. I played back the first few minutes of the fight scene in Gangs Of New York from a 720p Blu-ray rip 9gb mkv video encoded in h.264 (I'm sorry if I don't know my video codecs better). I played about the first 20 minutes with a lot of fast motion and it did not drop a single frame. This tells me that hardware acceleration is working as it should. I think that Boxee should have no issues playing back nearly any content, and this was on the ION LE which was designed for XP and is supposed to only support DirectX 9. Hulu and Netflix playback however were a mixed bag. Hulu play back is integrated a lot better than in previous builds, linking directly to the file and automatically full-screening the video. Playback however took a long time to load on my system, and was very choppy and unwatchable. I had just downloaded the 10.1 beta which was supposed to have hardware accelleration, but I have a feeling that it is either not using the correct Flash version, or that my internet speed was hindered in some way. Netflix playback was fine, using Silverlight for the video display. For some reason it also took a long time to load and initialize the video before playback began, averaging 3-4 mintues from when I clicked the title in Boxee until Netflix negotiated the request, Silverlight loaded, Netflix determined my connection speed, the video buffered and playback began. On a 2 hour movie this may not have been such a bad thing, but when trying to play a TV show and having 15% of the playback time waiting for it to play, it seems excessive. Again, take this with a grain of salt as it may be all on my end at this point. Anyways, the interface is very slick and super easy to use. Playback of local media is perfect, same performance as the linux counterpart. Great beta thus far, willing to work on it a bit and see if I can't get the streaming issues sorted out. I would say if local media is your main goal then the Revo's hardware is perfectly capable of playback of nearly all videos. edit: Confirmed some network issues on my end. Speedtest was showing 1/5 my normal bandwidth. Reset modem/router and things are loading much better now. Hulu is still choppy (but higher quality), so I'm pretty sure it's not using a hardware accelerated flash stream. Netflix is looking great though
FCKGW fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Dec 13, 2009 |
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Dec 13, 2009 08:32
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I've had a media server in my bedroom for years but I've recently moved into a bigger place and I am interested in having the capability to stream movies and mp3s to the other room. None of the video is HD, and I don't expect to start upgrading any time soon because I've got lovely non-HD tvs and I am too broke to replace them in the foreseeable future (if I understand correctly, the main drawback of the original Xbox as a media server is that its hardware is insufficient for HD decoding). I'd like to get the video into the other room as inexpensively as possible which has me considering the possibility of buying a used Xbox, softmodding it and running XBMC. The going ebay rate for a used, working, no-DOA-guaranteed xbox with the bare essentials seems to be $40-45 shippied, though I'd probably check some local places first to see if I can get it for less. I doubt I could cobble together a computer for less than that. My only use for the thing would be as a frontend for my media server over the network, I doubt I'll ever go out of my way to actually play a game on it. Is this a horrible idea for any reason in particular? poverty goat fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Dec 13, 2009 |
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Dec 13, 2009 21:52
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gggiiimmmppp posted:I've had a media server in my bedroom for years but I've recently moved into a bigger place and I am interested in having the capability to stream movies and mp3s to the other room. None of the video is HD, and I don't expect to start upgrading any time soon because I've got lovely non-HD tvs and I am too broke to replace them in the foreseeable future (if I understand correctly, the main drawback of the original Xbox as a media server is that its hardware is insufficient for HD decoding). I'd like to get the video into the other room as inexpensively as possible which has me considering the possibility of buying a used Xbox, softmodding it and running XBMC. The going ebay rate for a used, working, no-DOA-guaranteed xbox with the bare essentials seems to be $40-45 shippied, though I'd probably check some local places first to see if I can get it for less. I doubt I could cobble together a computer for less than that. My only use for the thing would be as a frontend for my media server over the network, I doubt I'll ever go out of my way to actually play a game on it. I love using xbmc for sd tv's and my parents who need an easy box to use. The last xbox I purchased was for about 35 dollars on ebay. I searched locally and found someone to actually bring it to me. I'd check craigslist or SA mart(there was a goon selling one for really cheap on there a while back) I just searched and here is the thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3226034&pagenumber=1&perpage=40#post368154858 You can get xbmc to start up before the regular modded dashboard and it would be instant on and in xbmc.
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Dec 14, 2009 00:53
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evilalien posted:That will only get you stereo. You need optical/digital coax sound at minimum for 5.1. Analog multi outs work too. Oh, that's disappointing. So I'll need to upgrade to a HDMI friendly receiver to get 5.1 sound from the Revo then. BorderPatrol posted:Boxee writeup Thanks for the writeup. I think I may still get the Revo even though it sounds like Hulu isn't really watchable. 80% of my watching is of local media, and a $199 price point is just too good to pass up. So now with Windows 7 out, I don't need to bother with Linux to get the true hardware acceleration or whatever it was that allows you to smoothly play 1080p content on the Revo? EDIT: Actually, I suppose I could get a USB -> S/PDIF? http://tinyurl.com/y9kggmu Strict 9 fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Dec 14, 2009 |
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Dec 14, 2009 16:28
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Strict 9 posted:Oh, that's disappointing. So I'll need to upgrade to a HDMI friendly receiver to get 5.1 sound from the Revo then. Yup, Boxee uses DVXA on the Windows side now, so no Linux required. DVXA should get ported to XBMC eventually, but Boxee's running with it right now. I'm still iffy on the Hulu business. I just realized that Flash 10.1 will not install for some reason on my system so I'm pretty sure that if I can get it installed it will run Hulu fine.
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Dec 14, 2009 18:15
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Strict 9 posted:EDIT: Actually, I suppose I could get a USB -> S/PDIF? http://tinyurl.com/y9kggmu That should work great, yeah. You could always justify the added cost of the dongle because it might have some good long-term applications as well (install it in a netbook or laptop) if/when you upgrade to an HDMI-ready receiver. edit: Turtle Beach is a good brand, but feel free to survey your other options. For instance, Tons of inputs on this one, and ten bucks cheaper, though added size might be a constraint. Seems OK for 12 bucks, but one reviewer says that only the L and R channels and not all 6 channels are passed through the digital outs. Really strange if true. Fist of Fury fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Dec 14, 2009 |
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Dec 14, 2009 18:43
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Just FYI - in case anyone has been like me and looking to buy a Revo 3610 for the past month and wondering why they're nowhere to be found, according to this thread over at AVS Forum, the reason is because Acer is apparently coming out with a new SKU. They should be available for purchase in the next week or so.
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Dec 14, 2009 18:49
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BorderPatrol posted:Yup, Boxee uses DVXA on the Windows side now, so no Linux required. DVXA should get ported to XBMC eventually, but Boxee's running with it right now. Ah, ok. I hope they do that soon as I'm almost done migrating over to XBMC. Though I don't even have 1080P content in there, just 720P, and I assume I could still play those fine even without DVXA on the Revo. Fist of Fury posted:That should work great, yeah. You could always justify the added cost of the dongle because it might have some good long-term applications as well (install it in a netbook or laptop) if/when you upgrade to an HDMI-ready receiver. Thanks for those other options. I'm recommending the Revo to my dad who doesn't have digital in but could take advantage of the multi outputs.
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Dec 14, 2009 20:01
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BorderPatrol posted:Cross-posted from the HTPC front-end thread:
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Dec 15, 2009 00:00
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Fourteen posted:Just FYI - in case anyone has been like me and looking to buy a Revo 3610 for the past month and wondering why they're nowhere to be found, according to this thread over at AVS Forum, the reason is because Acer is apparently coming out with a new SKU. They should be available for purchase in the next week or so. Good to know. My Zino got pushed back to January. I may just cancel it if this new Revo turns out to be a decent deal.
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Dec 15, 2009 02:07
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Yeah my Zino was pushed back too. Also, the Boxee beta looks promising. Does it work on 64bit windows? I can't find a straight answer. Edit: Of course not, gently caress Edit2: Wait maybe it runs on 64bit Vista/7 Dijkstra fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Dec 15, 2009 |
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Dec 15, 2009 13:55
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Dijkstra posted:Yeah my Zino was pushed back too. It should, I was running it on my iMac under bootcamp on Windows 7 x64, and on my Revo on Win7 x86
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Dec 15, 2009 18:19
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BorderPatrol posted:It should, I was running it on my iMac under bootcamp on Windows 7 x64, and on my Revo on Win7 x86 yup. Confirmed Mac > VMWARE FUSTION > Windows 7 x64.
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Dec 15, 2009 18:32
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Runs fine on Win7 x64. Unfortunately it's still ugly and cluttered. Better than the previous version, but it's not something I'll be using.
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Dec 15, 2009 23:00
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bobzmuda posted:Good to know. My Zino got pushed back to January. I may just cancel it if this new Revo turns out to be a decent deal. They started showing today up at Buy.com and J&R.com. Check the thread I linked for the links to the product on those sites. Personally I'm waiting for them to arrive at Newegg; if I buy at Buy.com or J&R.com I'll have to pay sales tax.
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Dec 16, 2009 02:18
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BorderPatrol posted:Yup, Boxee uses DVXA on the Windows side now, so no Linux required. DVXA should get ported to XBMC eventually, but Boxee's running with it right now. Did you have Flash 10.0 installed before? 10.1 refused to install for me (despite no errors from the installer) until I went into Add/Remove and manually uninstalled it.
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Dec 16, 2009 03:34
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Stutes posted:Did you have Flash 10.0 installed before? 10.1 refused to install for me (despite no errors from the installer) until I went into Add/Remove and manually uninstalled it. I tried installing 10.1, and it says the installation completed. Go to Adobe site to check flash status, it says no flash. Install 10.0, installs fine and Adobe says it's good. Uninstall and try installing 10.1 again, no dice. Might try rebooting and clearing temp files in between and give it another go. To everyone who says the Boxee interface is too cluttered, do you usually play your files off local media? I'm split about 50/50 between local media and Netflix streaming. I do enjoy the XBMC interface, but have not found a better solution to access streaming content than this.
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Dec 16, 2009 04:40
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BorderPatrol posted:To everyone who says the Boxee interface is too cluttered, do you usually play your files off local media? I'm split about 50/50 between local media and Netflix streaming. I do enjoy the XBMC interface, but have not found a better solution to access streaming content than this. My complaint about the Boxee interface is the featured video's on the main page. I don't think I have ever been interested in anything that appears on the front page. I just want a quick way to launch Netflix, Pandora, etc. and still have easy access to local media all with just using a remote controller. Beta does it better than alpha, but beta decided me MCE remote is an Apple remote and only 6 buttons do anything and I can't figure out how to fix it.
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Dec 16, 2009 16:34
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BorderPatrol posted:To everyone who says the Boxee interface is too cluttered, do you usually play your files off local media? I'm split about 50/50 between local media and Netflix streaming. I do enjoy the XBMC interface, but have not found a better solution to access streaming content than this. I do use local media. I would use Netflix and other streaming services, but they're not so important I would put up with that interface. I'd love to get Pandora and Netflix in a nice interface... As Majumbo said, that main page is completely full of stuff that I have no interest in.
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Dec 16, 2009 18:39
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Can anyone tell me if this is possible. I have 3 hdtv's in the house, one on each floor. I want to get rid of the lovely comcast cable box and build and HTPC/DVR machine that will basically do everything. I want the main HTPC machine to take an HD TV signal (cablecard) and use that to record and stream to 2 other locations through out the house. What I have come up with is to use Win7 Media Center and 2 xboxes as media extenders. I am not entirely sure I will be able to watch tv on the xboxes. Is this currently possible or am I delusional.
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Dec 16, 2009 18:57
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sparticus posted:Can anyone tell me if this is possible. I believe that you'll be able to stream video and recorded TV to the Xboxes, but not live TV. Streaming live TV to other things is something called Softsled, and it probably will never happen because Microsoft's been dragging their feet on it for years. It would be amazing if it worked, though.
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Dec 16, 2009 19:25
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sparticus posted:Can anyone tell me if this is possible. A little delusional. Up until last month, you couldn't buy a cablecard based PC tuner unless it came bundled with specific PCs. That restriction has been lifted but the only cablecard tuner is the ATI Wonder OCUR, which is now out of production. You can buy them on ebay and that's about it. It also will only do 1 channel at a time. Ceton corp is due to release a 4 channel Cablecard tuner in Q1 of 2010. Full size card, PCIe, and will require USB power. No word on price but don't expect anything under $300 and maybe even closer to $500. Win 7 does integrate these tuners into Media Center without a problem. In theory you should be able to playback through the xboxes no problem but I don't know of anybody who has - it is possible that the 360 may not have enough horsepower to playback the resulting files. Live streaming, as mentioned above, I don't think is possible at all.
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Dec 16, 2009 19:30
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my dream of a fully functional streaming media house is dead for now. Why does comcast have to have lovely equipment 
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Dec 16, 2009 20:09
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The Human Cow posted:I believe that you'll be able to stream video and recorded TV to the Xboxes, but not live TV. Streaming live TV to other things is something called Softsled, and it probably will never happen because Microsoft's been dragging their feet on it for years. It would be amazing if it worked, though. Crackbone posted:A little delusional. I think you guys are misunderestimating the XBox360 and (as many do for some reason) massively overestimating the power necessary to decode HDTV. Yes, it can stream live HDTV. It's MPEG-2. It doesn't take much power to decode MPEG2, even at 1080i. My Athlon64 3000 did it in college. I'm watching OTA HDTV on my 360 right now and that's at least the same bitrate as cable HD, if not higher. Streaming live HDTV to the XBox is in no way out of reach, the only hard part is getting the aforementioned cablecard tuner. The number I heard from Engadget HD was that Ceton was shooting for $300 for the two-tuner CC card and $75 for each tuner on top of that, which to me is pretty reasonable if you're feeding your whole house and just have to pay the $5 for a CableCard a month versus the $15 a month per box my provider charges.
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Dec 16, 2009 22:24
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TheScott2K posted:I think you guys are misunderestimating the XBox360 and (as many do for some reason) massively overestimating the power necessary to decode HDTV. Yes, it can stream live HDTV. It's MPEG-2. It doesn't take much power to decode MPEG2, even at 1080i. My Athlon64 3000 did it in college. I'm watching OTA HDTV on my 360 right now and that's at least the same bitrate as cable HD, if not higher. Streaming live HDTV to the XBox is in no way out of reach, the only hard part is getting the aforementioned cablecard tuner. The number I heard from Engadget HD was that Ceton was shooting for $300 for the two-tuner CC card and $75 for each tuner on top of that, which to me is pretty reasonable if you're feeding your whole house and just have to pay the $5 for a CableCard a month versus the $15 a month per box my provider charges. I stand corrected. I didn't know you could do live streaming, and I was not aware of what format MS recorded HD in. I know x264 and vc-1 decoding has some limitations on the 360. The thing with the Ceton tuner is that it's going to be released initially as a 4 tuner version and priced accordingly, with the 2 tuner solution still TBA.
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Dec 16, 2009 22:44
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