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I agree, Jeff Hardy is a borderline main eventer. He only main evented several PPVs, won the World title 3 times, was Smackdown's top babyface for months, and when he left it forced WWE to move someone over from Raw to fill the huge void he left. But other than all of that, he's totally not really a main eventer.
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Dec 18, 2009 22:14
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| # ? May 19, 2024 12:56 |
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homeboy is still winning slammies months after leaving the company 
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Dec 18, 2009 22:28
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triplexpac posted:Current: Hardy is a main eventer. Khali shouldn't even be in the discussion. Kofi should be borderline at this point. I'd say Christian is borderline at this point too, unless you wanna count him out because he's on ECW.
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Dec 18, 2009 22:29
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Yeah I guess Jeff should be ranked higher. It's a tough call for me though. If he had a Wrestlemania main event under his belt, he'd be up there in my books for sure. I just feel like he is in the same situation kind of situation as Punk. He's over, he's talented, but he's not going to get the same kind of push that someone like Batista gets. Edit: I'd hold back on Christian until he's on a main show. The guy barely makes it on most PPVs, sadly being ECW champ does not equate being a main eventer to me. triplexpac fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Dec 18, 2009 |
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Dec 18, 2009 22:29
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triplexpac posted:I'd hold back on Christian until he's on a main show. The guy barely makes it on most PPVs, sadly being ECW champ does not equate being a main eventer to me. Nor to anyone else. I like Christian, a lot of people love him, but the ECW title is equal to the US or IC title and that doesn't change based on who holds it.
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Dec 18, 2009 22:35
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triplexpac posted:Yeah I guess Jeff should be ranked higher. It's a tough call for me though. If he had a Wrestlemania main event under his belt, he'd be up there in my books for sure. - Hogan - Savage - Warrior - Bret - Nash - HBK - Taker - Austin - Foley (barely) - Rock - HHH - Lesnar - Benoit - Batista - Cena Fifteen guys from the mid-eighties until now. Surely there have been legitimate face main eventers to not be in that spot, for whatever reason.
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Dec 18, 2009 22:37
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sportsgenius86 posted:Hardy is a main eventer. Khali shouldn't even be in the discussion. Kofi should be borderline at this point. I'd say Christian is borderline at this point too, unless you wanna count him out because he's on ECW. I'd argue that TNA made Christian a main eventer. When he left WWE, he shot straight to the top of TNA (mainly because of their hardon for "FORMER WWE SUPERSTARS!") and on his return, was thrust into the ECW title picture. I mean, you could argue that the ECW title still doesn't make you a main eventer, and I think that's a fair statement, but WWE really hasn't done a whole lot in building Christian up.
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Dec 18, 2009 22:45
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CellBlock posted:I'd argue that TNA made Christian a main eventer. When he left WWE, he shot straight to the top of TNA (mainly because of their hardon for "FORMER WWE SUPERSTARS!") and on his return, was thrust into the ECW title picture. Wasn't he on his way there on his own? I remember hearing about the crowd being really behind him, but Vince didn't want to push him because of his size.
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Dec 18, 2009 22:48
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Hockles posted:Wasn't he on his way there on his own? I remember hearing about the crowd being really behind him, but Vince didn't want to push him because of his size. Christian was pretty drat over, to the point where they started a feud with him and Cena. Then they got cold feet and crammed Jericho in there.
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Dec 18, 2009 22:49
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Hockles posted:Wasn't he on his way there on his own? I remember hearing about the crowd being really behind him, but Vince didn't want to push him because of his size. He was definitely on his way, sure, but if he had never left, he may still not have gotten a shot. (It's been long enough that he'd probably have gotten his compulsory "company guy" shot as a belt pillow or something, but if Vince didn't want to push him, he probably wouldn't have gotten pushed.)
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Dec 18, 2009 22:50
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So about powerbombs. The big opinion question: release or falling? Falling is probably safer, but man, a good release powerbomb like Vader is one of the most spectacular visuals you can get. Whaddaya think?
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Dec 18, 2009 22:58
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Release and folding are the best ways to powerbomb. Every powerbomb is good though, powerbombs are like pizza, even the worst kinda pizza (St. Louis style) is still edible. The worst powerbombs (Nash's) are still good.
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Dec 18, 2009 23:01
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CellBlock posted:He was definitely on his way, sure, but if he had never left, he may still not have gotten a shot. This. His push, to me, reeked of "head writer thinks his reaction is too big to ignore, suggests giving him a title shot, isn't explicitly told no, writes it, Vince catches wind of it, shoehorns another person into the angle, push is dead." And that's not to say I think Vince hates Christian. I think he was just a victim of Vince's waxing-and-waning "yeah, he's good and over, you know, but... don't we have any guys who are 6'4"+ that haven't gotten a title shot yet?" mindset.
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Dec 18, 2009 23:08
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Free Market Gravy posted:Nor to anyone else. i disagree. i think the ecw title is clearly above the us/ic titles (the ecw belt at least makes it to PPV and always has people feuding over it) but obviously below the world title.
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Dec 18, 2009 23:33
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oldpainless posted:But I believe Sid is usually given credit for introducing it to the US audience.
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Dec 18, 2009 23:42
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Gordy, huh? I didn't think of him, if you are right. Anyway, here's a question: What established popular tag teams broke up, stayed in the same company and both stayed heel or face? I mean, it seems most major teams when they split up always turned on each other and feuded. Any teams where they went into singles competition, but still stayed friendly toward each other, whether heel or face? Hardys broke up and fueded. The Outsiders had Nash turn face and Hall stayed heel. Michaels turned heel on Jannetty. Miz turned on Morrison, thus turning Morrison face. When the Steiners broke up, it was Scott turning on Rick and joining the NWO. Edge and Christian broke up when Christian attacked Edge and turned Edge face. Obviously, these are just a few major examples. I wouldn't count Superteams of established singles stars forming makeshift teams. A team needs to be together for years and seen as a true tag-team. I guess there wouldn't be many examples today as compared to tag-teams heyday
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Dec 19, 2009 01:03
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Powers of Pain are the only one that are coming to mind off the top of my head. I don't ever recall the Warlord (Warload) or the Barbarian being face after they split. They were tag champs and it was twenty years ago so yeah doesn't seem like a trend. Edit: To add a few more to your list, Twin Towers - Akeem turned on Bossman, thus turning Bossman face. Strike Force - Martel turned on Santana, thus turning Martel heel. Hart Foundation - After WM7 and losing the titles Bret went on his singles run and I think Neidhart just sort of vanished, if not this could be another. Bearnt! fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Dec 19, 2009 |
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Dec 19, 2009 01:13
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Total miscellany post: TNA appears to actually be advertising the Hogan Monday show pretty well, saw an ad on TV and they've got a billboard in Times Square and are running ads on a video screen there. Also don't we know this person topping reddit right now http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/18/816168/-Uninsured-in-Japan:-a-medical-trip-report
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Dec 19, 2009 01:53
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For the tag teams splitting thing, what about the Dudleys? I probably didn't follow wrestling too closely back then (or maybe it was an uninspiring split) so I don't remember it too clearly, but I don't think there was much animosity in the split. D-Von went on to play a preacher on Smackdown (with Deacon Batista as his sidekick!) and Bubba Ray had some sort of singles push that fizzled on Raw. Edit: I can't spell Samuel Lann fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Dec 19, 2009 |
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Dec 19, 2009 02:54
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oldpainless posted:What established popular tag teams broke up, stayed in the same company and both stayed heel or face? I guess it doesn't really count but on the ECW and Smackdown following the Raw where Miz turned on Morrison, Morrison still wrestled as a heel. The next week, he randomly turned face on Smackdown by beating Shelton and insulting Jericho. Now that I think of it, the ECW after the draft was when Morrison had that really good match against Bourne.
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Dec 19, 2009 03:03
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Money, Inc. quietly dissolved around mid-1993, as it was towards the end of DiBiase's wrestling career. DiBiase feuded with the 123 Kid and Razor Ramon for a few weeks after Money Inc. dropped the titles to the Steiners, then went to managing the Million Dollar Corporation, which did include IRS. But, DiBiase and IRS never turned on each other, or forced one another to go face. Edit: In fact, they were still friendly enough to have DiBiase pay IRS to eliminate himself during the gimmick battle royal for the Million Dollar Man to win during the 15th Anniversary of Raw. Those guys are true pals. AKA Driver fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Dec 19, 2009 |
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Dec 19, 2009 03:25
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Owen Hart vs Xpac is probably the best under 10 minute match. Holy crap, thanks for reminding me about this one. Pretty much my favorite under-5 minute match, all time. And one of the spots in the match brings me to a question: aside from possibly Steiner, was Owen the last WWE guy who did belly-to-belly suplexes without tossing the guy overhead? That style of suplex needs to be brought back, it was such a sweet move.
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Dec 19, 2009 05:22
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Can also throw in the New Age Outlaws as a team that never turned on each other I think. They each just sort of drifted apart and went after the IC and Hardcore titles. Then Billy Gunn became one of the most worthless KOTR winners of all time and it gets cloudy for me after this.
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Dec 19, 2009 06:05
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anakha posted:Holy crap, thanks for reminding me about this one. Pretty much my favorite under-5 minute match, all time. ken shamrock
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Dec 19, 2009 06:06
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Bearnt! posted:Powers of Pain are the only one that are coming to mind off the top of my head. I don't ever recall the Warlord (Warload) or the Barbarian being face after they split. They were tag champs and it was twenty years ago so yeah doesn't seem like a trend. Powers of Pain were never champs. Fuji sold Barbarian's contract to Heenan and Warlord's to Slick and they were both heels.
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Dec 19, 2009 06:32
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Powers of Pain were never champs. Fuji sold Barbarian's contract to Heenan and Warlord's to Slick and they were both heels. thats another thing: what are some notable tag teams that never held the tag titles in WWE/WCW?
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Dec 19, 2009 06:38
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dusty udder smoker posted:thats another thing: what are some notable tag teams that never held the tag titles in WWE/WCW? The Rockers aren't officially recognized as tag champs, are they? Everyone knows about the phantom reign, but would you count that? And the Skyscrapers were pretty drat over and they never won the gold.
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Dec 19, 2009 06:43
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I think it's safe to throw CM Punk in as definitely a main eventer. I don't think he's a "tippy top guy" like Triple H who is always around the main event, but he's at a point where he can be moved up at will without having to build him up significantly first.
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Dec 19, 2009 06:57
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Bearnt! posted:Can also throw in the New Age Outlaws as a team that never turned on each other I think. They each just sort of drifted apart and went after the IC and Hardcore titles. Then Billy Gunn became one of the most worthless KOTR winners of all time and it gets cloudy for me after this. I'm fairly sure that after Road Dogg and X-pac were the flagbearers for DX, when HHH had gone off to do his own thing, Billy Gunn got turned on.
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Dec 19, 2009 07:02
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rotinaj posted:Billy Gunn got turned on. Poor choice of words.
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Dec 19, 2009 07:05
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nyratk1 posted:Poor choice of words. The best surprises always come up from behind.
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Dec 19, 2009 07:07
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rotinaj posted:I'm fairly sure that after Road Dogg and X-pac were the flagbearers for DX, when HHH had gone off to do his own thing, Billy Gunn got turned on. There was a match between Road Dogg/Xpac and Billy Gunn/Chyna for the rights to the DX name at some point. Also, the Twin Towers were never tag champs.
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Dec 19, 2009 07:14
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D-X turned on Gunn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E2B_Li0ghg Why does Dibiase's career seem so short? Did he suffer a career-ending injury?
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Dec 19, 2009 07:16
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Curtis of Nigeria posted:D-X turned on Gunn You call a 20 year career short? Anyway, he had back injuries that kept mounting and decided to just become a manager, and from there just kept descending to a backstage role until he pretty much retired full time to focus on getting his kids ready.
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Dec 19, 2009 07:23
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Curtis of Nigeria posted:D-X turned on Gunn Yeah, sometime in the summer of 93 he knew it was over. His last match was at SummerSlam 1993.
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Dec 19, 2009 07:23
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Curtis of Nigeria posted:D-X turned on Gunn Maybe its because he was so well-known as the Million Dollar Man. Regular old Ted Dibiase spent lots of time in regional wrestling before coming to WWF.
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Dec 19, 2009 07:25
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Powers of Pain were never champs. Fuji sold Barbarian's contract to Heenan and Warlord's to Slick and they were both heels. Ahh, my mistake I guess I just assumed they feuded with Demolition and must have traded the titles with them at least once. Now that I think back though it was Strike Force, the Brain Busters and the Colossal Connection that the Demolition tag team title wins were over. Rumor has it the Powers of Pain were broken up due to LOD being in contract negotiations and they had too much of a similar look to LOD so they demanded that they be split and be repackaged with different gimmicks. Could have said the same thing about Demolition IMO. dusty udder smoker posted:thats another thing: what are some notable tag teams that never held the tag titles in WWE/WCW? Bushwhackers, Rythym and Blues, Power and Glory are a couple more that come to mind.
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Dec 19, 2009 07:36
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You might put High Energy in there. Really, depending on when u were born, the 80s had so many tag-teams that were real tag-teams that simply never got the belts because title changes were much less often and Demolition ran poo poo in the '80s.
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Dec 19, 2009 07:42
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The Can-Am connection comes to mind.
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Dec 19, 2009 07:43
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You know what has always annoyed the poo poo out of me for six years now? How the effectiveness of someone in the ring changes so widely in such a short amount of time. This is what annoys me: In the middle of 2002, Hollywood Hogan wrestled the Undertaker for the title. It doesn't matter who won, all that matters is both men were portrayed as strong and able to match up against each other. It wasn't some one-sided massacre. Later, Vince Mcmahon and Hulk Hogan feud and have a match at WM 19. This is approximately 10 months or so after Hogan and Undertaker fought. In this match, Vince is portrayed as equal to Hogan. He is in control of the match for most of it and is able to overpower Hogan on several occasions during the match. Even later, Mcmahon and Undertaker feud at SS 03. This is approximately 6 months after WM 19 and 18 months after Hogan and Taker fought. But in this match, Vince is totally unable to stand against Taker. Taker massacres Vince and beats his rear end the whole match. The first punch busts Vince open and he bleeds all over the place. Vince has no chance against Taker So how the gently caress does the relationship between these three men make any sense? Taker and Hogan are equal, Vince and Hogan are equal, but Taker is miles ahead of Vince??? I know wrestling is fake and I shouldnt get annoyed but this has bothered the piss outta me for a while. And now Im done
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Dec 19, 2009 07:56
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