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The biggest mystery to me in the industry will be Vinces pointless cheapness during the Invasion - He had to start things off with the 2nd tier of WCW because why, Nash.Hogan.Sting were happy getting paid to sit at home? He didn't get Goldberg until way later either. If he had given out a few million dollars to lure out some huge names at the start, it would have truly been the most epic event in industry history. Considering he was coming off the hottest era in his companies history and he was walking around with a giant erection over finally becoming a billionaire, it was even more perplexing and short sighted. Someone should do the math on how much that has cost him in the long run. AND, capitalizing the V is loving weird and I wont do it until someone gives me a great justification for it
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Dec 23, 2009 03:27
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Supreme Allah posted:The biggest mystery to me in the industry will be Vinces pointless cheapness during the Invasion - He had to start things off with the 2nd tier of WCW because why, Nash.Hogan.Sting were happy getting paid to sit at home? He didn't get Goldberg until way later either. If he had given out a few million dollars to lure out some huge names at the start, it would have truly been the most epic event in industry history. Considering he was coming off the hottest era in his companies history and he was walking around with a giant erection over finally becoming a billionaire, it was even more perplexing and short sighted. Someone should do the math on how much that has cost him in the long run. And yeah, it really is frustrating to see how many big names were left out of the Invasion angle, only to show up within the next couple of years anyway. Scott Steiner, Goldberg, the freaking nWo, hell even Mysterio would have given a much more immense scope to the whole thing. Instead they just turned WWF guys heel to play the roles of the main WCW heavies, and that just made the whole thing feel inauthentic.
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Dec 23, 2009 03:43
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Supreme Allah posted:The biggest mystery to me in the industry will be Vinces pointless cheapness during the Invasion - He had to start things off with the 2nd tier of WCW because why, Nash.Hogan.Sting were happy getting paid to sit at home? He didn't get Goldberg until way later either. If he had given out a few million dollars to lure out some huge names at the start, it would have truly been the most epic event in industry history. Considering he was coming off the hottest era in his companies history and he was walking around with a giant erection over finally becoming a billionaire, it was even more perplexing and short sighted. Someone should do the math on how much that has cost him in the long run. The V is for Vince, all hail Vince
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Dec 23, 2009 04:15
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Supreme Allah posted:
WWF "V" WCW?
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Dec 23, 2009 22:06
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Supreme Allah posted:The biggest mystery to me in the industry will be Vinces pointless cheapness during the Invasion - He had to start things off with the 2nd tier of WCW because why, Nash.Hogan.Sting were happy getting paid to sit at home? He didn't get Goldberg until way later either. If he had given out a few million dollars to lure out some huge names at the start, it would have truly been the most epic event in industry history. Considering he was coming off the hottest era in his companies history and he was walking around with a giant erection over finally becoming a billionaire, it was even more perplexing and short sighted. Someone should do the math on how much that has cost him in the long run. I don't know if Nash/Hogan/Goldberg would have been willing to give up the free money they were getting from Time Warner, but it doesn't really matter. Once their contracts were up, it was pretty much a guarantee that they would join up with WWF anyway. They could have easily slow-burned the invasion angle. Every few months WCW could have brought in a new secret weapon. Ric Flair, Goldberg, the NWO, Bischoff. Each of these could be played up as "this is what WCW needs to win the war once and for all!" Add in a few turns that actually make sense, like Jericho jumping to WCW or Hogan jumping to WWF, and this could have gone on for literally a year, and maybe longer.
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Dec 23, 2009 22:48
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Well obviously Vince couldn't afford to shell out a few extra million considering the huge amount of money he paid for WCW!  I do wonder though if there was a concern about legitimate resentment in the WWF lockerroom if a bunch of (mostly older) guys who had basically raped another promotion into oblivion got paid out a huge amount of money to come into theirs as "brand new" top draws.
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Dec 23, 2009 22:59
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Lance storms shoot goes into this, his 2nd one. He said basically there was alot of animosity, due to the fact the mid level WWE guys who were on ppv's were all of a sudden bumped off because well you needed to showcase these WCW stars for the invasion. Plus the fact alot of them acted like dick. He told a few good Bagwell stories. Including one about him getting his mom to call WWE headquarters demanding he get a limo for every event because DDP and Big Show pulled up to an event in one, which they paid for. But DDP made some comment that set him off as he apparently thought he was a big star! Anyway the point is get the lance storm shoot right now!
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Dec 23, 2009 23:17
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nyratk1 posted:The V is for Vince, all hail Vince I thought it was a "V for Victory" kind of thing.
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Dec 23, 2009 23:26
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PunkBoy posted:I thought it was a "V for Victory" kind of thing. Victory, Vince, same thing 
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Dec 23, 2009 23:27
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Jerusalem posted:Well obviously Vince couldn't afford to shell out a few extra million considering the huge amount of money he paid for WCW! I liked how Death of WCW termed it. Basically, yes, there were worries that such a thing would piss off the locker room. But you have to think about big picture. You bring the big guys in, and everyone is rolling in dough, because the WWF big guys vs. the WCW big guys is what people wanted to see. Remember WM18? As it was, Vince didn't do it and...he eventually brought them in with big salaries, pissed off the locker room in the process, and nobody made any extra money because WWE was off a cliff at that point, in great part because of this bullshit. The entire thing just existed to stroke Vince's ego, even though it made no sense since he already won and owned the goddamn company, so all he was doing was devaluing his property.
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Dec 23, 2009 23:37
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LividLiquid posted:It was. It just wasn't the first appearance of WCW on WWE television. Lance storm did a run-in on some nothing match, did a missile drop kick and ran the gently caress off. This kinda makes him sound like dick....until you realize that Lance Storm is loving awesome, not just as a wrestler, but he also has a great head for the business and is actually a really funny guy (whenever he's on F4D or BnV). I hope BnV called him for the Christmas Show this year.
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Dec 23, 2009 23:45
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"The Consortium.... WAS ME!" was a good relaunch post-Invasion I thought, but it was slapping a bandaid on the hull. When did the others come in? I'm trying to keep in mind the timeline: WCW folds, Shane announces he is competing with his Dad. Wrestlemania 17 (hooray!) Bagwell/Booker T abortion. WCW midcard invades. ECW takes it to the extreme/Heyman announces the Alliance/Stephanie shows up. Vince asks for the old Austin to return. Austin comes back and kicks some rear end. Austin turns on WWF. Invasion PPV - Angle fakes out a betrayal and "saves" the WWF. Vince declares himself the victor, Ric Flair returns (hooray!) Vince "injects" poison by bringing back Hogan, Hall and Nash. Jericho wins Undisputed Title. nWo prevent Austin winning Undisputed Title. Austin takes on nWo, starts feuding with Hall. Hogan feuding with Rock. Kevin Nash getting paid, can't believe his luck. Triple H returns Scott Steiner shows up at Rumble briefly? Triple H wins Rumble. Roughly a year later.... Goldberg shows up? Is that right?
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Dec 23, 2009 23:53
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Jerusalem posted:"The Consortium.... WAS ME!" was a good relaunch post-Invasion I thought, but it was slapping a bandaid on the hull. InVasion was the one where the Alliance won and Austin first defected, Angle "saved" WWF at Survivor Series.
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Dec 24, 2009 00:00
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I thought the Alliance "won" Invasion, and was thus allowed to continue their war, and it was Survivor Series where the WWF finally won. EDIT: Beat'd
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Dec 24, 2009 00:01
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Right, that sounds right, I always get confused by that period, there were so many turns and shifts in alliance etc.
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Dec 24, 2009 00:02
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I recalled Survivor Series because it had a pretty awesome promo video with the extended version of "The End." And I seem to recall Invasion had a pretty cool promo as well.
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Dec 24, 2009 00:03
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We should really dedicate a thread to how bad the invasion was done.PunkBoy posted:I recalled Survivor Series because it had a pretty awesome promo video with the extended version of "The End." And I seem to recall Invasion had a pretty cool promo as well. That PPV was one of my favorite ones the WWF has ever put on. I'd kill for it on DVD.
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Dec 24, 2009 00:04
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Flair also presented that amazing "history of the WWF" video after Vince decided to bring the nWo in. WWF's monkeys in the truck getting access to the WCW Library was a wonderful thing.
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Dec 24, 2009 00:10
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Jerusalem posted:"The Consortium.... WAS ME!" was a good relaunch post-Invasion I thought, but it was slapping a bandaid on the hull. Jericho won the Undisputed title in December and the nWo was brought back in late January or early February of the next year. Also, Steiner debuted at the Survivor Series in 2002.
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Dec 24, 2009 00:23
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Jericho won the Undisputed title in December and the nWo was brought back in late January or early February of the next year. I could have sworn he came out at a Madison Square Garden Royal Rumble. He didn't have a match, just came out and beat up Matt Hardy and Christopher Nowinksi from memory. Maybe it was Survivor Series, but I was sure it was the Rumble.
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Dec 24, 2009 00:30
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Jerusalem posted:I could have sworn he came out at a Madison Square Garden Royal Rumble. He didn't have a match, just came out and beat up Matt Hardy and Christopher Nowinksi from memory. Maybe it was Survivor Series, but I was sure it was the Rumble. It couldn't have been the Rumble. He had THAT match with HHH at the Rumble. It must have been Survivor Series.
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Dec 24, 2009 00:34
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Ziggy Tsardust posted:It couldn't have been the Rumble. He had THAT match with HHH at the Rumble. It must have been Survivor Series. That makes sense, or else it would have been a year between his debut and his title shot.
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Dec 24, 2009 00:36
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Jerusalem posted:I could have sworn he came out at a Madison Square Garden Royal Rumble. He didn't have a match, just came out and beat up Matt Hardy and Christopher Nowinksi from memory. Maybe it was Survivor Series, but I was sure it was the Rumble. It was at Madison Square Garden, but the show was Survivor Series.
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Dec 24, 2009 00:43
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Well, I'd like to shed light on some of these topics, but just before WM17 was when I took a hiatus from wrestling. I think a thread about this stuff would be a good idea, and it would probably help fill me in on stuff I missed (and better answer my original question)
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Dec 24, 2009 01:05
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Jerusalem posted:"The Consortium.... WAS ME!" was a good relaunch post-Invasion I thought, but it was slapping a bandaid on the hull. IIRC Regal & Tajiri had a similar break-up to E&C and Test may have been another traitor.
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Dec 24, 2009 01:26
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Dragging Iron Feet posted:IIRC Regal & Tajiri had a similar break-up to E&C... Regal turned heel by costing Angle the title in a match against Austin on Raw. He tried to get Tajiri to turn with him, but he stayed true to the WWF.
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Dec 24, 2009 03:25
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The Goog posted:Regal turned heel by costing Angle the title in a match against Austin on Raw. He tried to get Tajiri to turn with him, but he stayed true to the WWF. It also gave us the new theme for Regal which was the first generation of what we have today.
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Dec 24, 2009 05:03
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Dragging Iron Feet posted:Also: Christian turning on Edge and becoming a "WCW defector" and Mick Foley coming back for "one night only" or some poo poo and booking Angle vs Austin vs RVD for the WWF belt, forcing RVD to choose between being loyal to the Alliance or going for championship glory. That reminds me, Austin's severe paranoia over RVD having equal or greater crowd support than him was a loving fantastic little element of the Invasion and I was always confused as hell why we didn't get Austin vs RVD out of it. Then again, I also loved the "Tazz doesn't understand how to kiss up to Austin properly," bit.
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Dec 24, 2009 07:04
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Jerusalem posted:"The Consortium.... WAS ME!" was a good relaunch post-Invasion I thought, but it was slapping a bandaid on the hull. Moved around some things and added some dates to try to make clearer.
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Dec 24, 2009 08:03
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oldpainless posted:The next night, Flair is revealed as co-owner of WWF as he bought Shane and Stephanie's stock. You mean that when Shane and Stephanie sold their stock to the consortium.... Ric Flair posted:THE CONSORTIUM.... WAS ME! !?!?
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Dec 24, 2009 08:09
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The consortium? I do not think that word means what you think it means.
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Dec 24, 2009 08:15
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oldpainless posted:The consortium? I do not think that word means what you think it means. That's the word Ric Flair used.
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Dec 24, 2009 08:18
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oldpainless posted:The consortium? I do not think that word means what you think it means. That's what it means now.
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Dec 24, 2009 08:21
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It means whatever the hell Ric Flair wants it to mean!
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Dec 24, 2009 08:26
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I just wanted more to quote Princess Bride than say Jerusalem was wrong. I just never recall Flair saying consortium, but a lot of that time is a blur to me as it was my teenage years. Besides, consortium is a fun word.
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Dec 24, 2009 08:26
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THE CONSORTIUM.... WAS ME! After the disappointment of the Invasion, Ric Flair returning and knocking Vince off of his perch was such a huge markout moment for me.
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Dec 24, 2009 08:28
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Ric Flair can be a consortium by himself because all of his wives and ex wives are part of it.
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Dec 24, 2009 08:29
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MassRayPer posted:Ric Flair can be a consortium by himself because all of his wives and ex wives are part of it. MVP and Booker T would be an ex-consortium.
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Dec 24, 2009 08:30
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It's amazing, and a little sad, to see how different everyone looks in that clip after only 8 years or so.
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Dec 24, 2009 08:34
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oldpainless posted:It's amazing, and a little sad, to see how different everyone looks in that clip after only 8 years or so. Flair is the biggest for me, that time period still feels recent to me but he looks "young" and strong and energetic. The funny thing being, when he was in WCW at the very end, I used to think of him as a washed up old man, but looking back he was in really good condition.
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Dec 24, 2009 08:36
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