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At work today I didn't have the part I needed to replace on a euphonium, so I took some brass rod stock and some brass sheet and shaped it and then brazed them together to make a brace. It has been a long time since I last brazed. It felt good to get out the soldering jig, borax and silver solder. It felt even better when I put on my largest torch tip and had a nice 6 inch blue flame roaring out of it. The part turned out ok. I had to file down a small blob of solder that wouldn't flow where I wanted it, but after cleanup and buffing it looked nice. Hopefully I get to do that more often. I have been doing so much soldering lately. I think I am finally getting the hang of it. Before, I would sometimes do great solders with nice fitted joints and no cleanup, and other times I would burn more lacquer on the horns than I should have, or use too much solder. Now I only burn/tint the lacquer on the old cellulose lacquer horns because those turn black as soon as any heat touches them, and my solder joints require no buffing or cleanup other than spraying them with soapy water to get the flux off. I guess since this post isn't exactly about blacksmithing, I will end it with a picture of my current project. A trumpet I am modifying. It is cleaned up now, and I added a finger hook to it, but I don't have pictures of that yet.  Click here for the full 1600x1200 image.
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Dec 16, 2009 04:14
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Brekelefuw posted:At work today Also, hot work is always fun. Also, also, everyone who says soldering or brazing is easy doesn't know what they are talking about. The people who call it easy generally don't understand the process properly and do lovely work. You seem to respect that it's a more complicated process. AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Dec 16, 2009 |
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Dec 16, 2009 13:52
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Nice horn ! Is that a Bach? Played a Conn in grade school, and fiddled around with one just a few weeks ago.
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Dec 16, 2009 15:30
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Yeah, I am done school. I started working as a full time Brass tech in May. I love it, although since I am the less experienced brass tech (there are only two at my shop) I have to do all of the boring stuff. (I do get some fun/challenging jobs though) Soldering really is an art. I find myself doing poor ones when I am in a bad mood, or have aggressive music on. It involves concentration and in the case of fixing instruments, timing. The timing is needed because you don't want to burn the lacquer on a customers horn, and often you are working on places where there are other solder joints. Too much heat and all of a sudden that one joint you had to do turns in to re-aligning the entire horn. The trumpet is an Olds Ambassador. I did buy a busted up Bach Strad on Ebay last year and rebuilt it, and now I use it on pretty much any gig that isn't classical music. My next goal is to save some money and buy some busted up horns to rebuild and then sell for money, but right now the stuff going on Ebay doesn't make the turnaround profitable.
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Dec 17, 2009 00:35
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Busted up Bach Strad...Sacrilege! Anything I should look for when browsing on Craig's ? How does one spot potential wear areas?
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Dec 17, 2009 13:24
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flacoman954 posted:Busted up Bach Strad...Sacrilege! If it is a brand you haven't heard of, google it. If it can't be found on google, or is found to be a Chinese or Indian horn, I would stay away from it. In terms of wear areas, I would look for any pitting in the finish. The good thing about Craigslist is that you can actually inspect and play before you buy, which is the best way to test if the horn is worth the money. Look at the braces connecting the bell to the leadpipe (front and back) because on student horns they are generally dented in a bit and the solder joints have started to crack. Look for substantial wear/pitting on the brass. Look on the leadpipe for any red spots. This is a sign of red rot, and you don't want that. Red rot doesn't affect silver horns or horns with rose brass/red brass leadpipes because of the high copper content. Check that the valves move smoothly up and down and the slides move, although a tech can take care of these issues if they exist. Cosmetics should take a back seat to how the horn plays, unless the brass is pitting and warn, or the horn has red rot.
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Dec 17, 2009 13:42
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flacoman954 posted:Busted up Bach Strad...Sacrilege! My old band director played the most beat to hell/ugly Bach Strad I have ever seen. Sounded great, but drat that poor horn had seen some use.
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Dec 18, 2009 09:08
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Did you know that foundry equipment has many useful applications while entertaining your family during the holidays? CRUCIBLE FURNACE: Use an oil fired furnace to add that special holiday flavor to your roasted marshmallows for your smores on Christmas Eve. Be very careful not to overcook the marshmallows. ANVIL, HAMMER, AND FORGE: Blacksmithing equipment has it's place for the celebrations as well. Use an anvil and hammer to tenderize those tough cuts of beef, and then sear in forge. FOUNDRY GLOVES: Foundry gloves make excellent pot holders. ALUMINUM FLUX: The 50/50 mixture of potassium chloride and sodium chloride is an essential ingredient to properly season your holiday meals. SAND MULLER: Muddling cocktail ingredients can be a pain in the butt for the host of a holiday party. Just throw your ingredients in your foundry muller instead. The sediment that collects at the bottom of the glass will make your guests have warm thoughts about the beach in the winter time. BAND SAW: Get beautiful, perfect cuts on your holiday ham or standing rib roast every time! Being as it can cut through bone, it will work well on a turkey. CRUCIBLE FURNACE: After all festivities all over, clean up by putting your trash in your furnace to be incinerated.
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Dec 19, 2009 05:33
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I actually use old welding gloves as bbq gloves for the smoker. It's nice to grab burning coals and arrange them as you like without burning your hands.
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Dec 19, 2009 06:03
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Slung Blade's Holiday recipe for an ornament hanger: Take 3 pieces of cut off 4140 round bar stock. 3 different radii are best. Drill a small hole in the side of each one.  Get insanely lucky at the steel retailer and find a bundle of 3/32nd wire already cut to 2 foot lengths. Place in forge and use the holes in the round stock from step 1 as a bending guide. Use pliers to give them the hooks after radiusing the wire. Make several of each radius.  Make 2 circles from 3/8ths round barstock. The second circle does not have to be complete, since you'll be cutting it down anyway.  Weld the complete one into a contiguous circle. Grind down the weld so it's smooth.  Cut the smaller circle into 4 equal pieces. Weld onto the complete circle and add a central stalk.   Put your icy tools away because your loving welding helmet lens is covered in ice from the loving DEATH FOG that just rolled in after the sun went down.  Curse the northern hemisphere.  Take the tractor for a drive in the snow to chill out.  Pick it up again tomorrow and loving finish it because you promised your neighbour's wife you'd get it done and get it to her before xmas.
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Dec 20, 2009 03:46
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That's a really nice looking circle. Edit: Seriously that ring is really round, I like it a lot. SmokeyXIII fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Dec 20, 2009 |
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Dec 20, 2009 09:24
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SmokeyXIII posted:That's a really nice looking circle. Cool, thanks Smokey  . I bent it around that one big round bar crop with slight hammer taps to correct it here and there. Made it slightly larger than necessary, bent it overlapped like a keyring, then I just used the cut off disc to even it up and welded it.Recipe for Ornament Hanger Part the Second: Spend an hour cleaning up the giant mess you've made in the garage while building your tractor. You'll need the space so you can work indoors because it's snowing like a motherfucker outside. Once you're finished, open the door and realize it stopped snowing about 30 minutes ago. Take some inch and a half round bar, drill a hole in the middle, and cut into 3 pieces.  Drill 4 holes in the one you're going to use in the topmost support.  Weld the wires in the holes.   Cut 6 notches in the outside of the other ones because there's not really enough room to drill them out. Also it's easier. Weld the wire in.  Test fit.  Weld the supports to the stalk.  Tomorrow it gets painted. Either a light brown, or if my neighbour can convince his wife to use the paint he has, a nice silver colour. Probably won't be able to get any pictures of it then, but that's ok. Synopsis: Man, it would have been really nice to use a TIG on this. I cannot loving wait for an indoor shop where I can have all my tools out where I need them and not in a loving box awaiting assembly. Still, I'm pretty happy how it turned out. Perfect it ain't, but it has lots of character.
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Dec 21, 2009 05:55
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That is really cool man, I approve.
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Dec 21, 2009 07:42
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That is awesome. Great craftsmanship and neat project. That said... you found that much solid 4140 presumably for cheap and youre putting it through a furnace?! You should be milling heavy duty gun frames 
AnomalousBoners fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Dec 22, 2009 |
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Dec 22, 2009 03:37
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RealKyleH, I am formally requesting that you post more about machining metal.
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Dec 22, 2009 04:56
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dv6speed posted:RealKyleH, I don't machine that much metal unfortunately, right now I am working for a company that makes higher end electrical tools mostly for military aircraft. I am working in the engineering department as an intern until I graduate engineering school most likely. My lathe runs and Ill be using it to make some simple stuff for a friend to use to connect pipes for a truck hes building. The mill I still haven't invested much time in and couldn't get it to talk to the program that its retrofitted to run off of. Right now the projects on the table are car stuff and then I'd like to start working on guns a bit. Maybe improving the function of some cheap ones or building a 1911. Might build a hydraulic crimp tool which will require a bit of simple machining and Ill post about that. AnomalousBoners fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Dec 22, 2009 |
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Dec 22, 2009 05:45
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RealKyleH posted:Maybe improving the function of some cheap ones or building a 1911.
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Dec 22, 2009 13:45
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RealKyleH posted:I don't machine that much metal unfortunately, right now I am working for a company that makes higher end electrical tools mostly for military aircraft. I am working in the engineering department as an intern until I graduate engineering school most likely. What engineering school you going to?
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Dec 22, 2009 14:27
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Blacksmith posted:What engineering school you going to? UCF
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Dec 22, 2009 16:52
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RealKyleH posted:That is awesome. Great craftsmanship and neat project. That said... you found that much solid 4140 presumably for cheap and youre putting it through a furnace?! You should be milling heavy duty gun frames The 4140 is the large round cut-offs I'm using as forms for the bends / scrollwork, the stuff I made the hanger out of is all plain-jane hot rolled mild steel. And thanks man 
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Dec 22, 2009 18:14
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RealKyleH posted:Maybe improving the function of some cheap ones or building a 1911. Don't bother trying to make a barrel for it. Rifling tools are hard as poo poo to find on the open market and I think they need to be registered. The rest of a gun is simple. 4140 will be a heavy loving gun though.
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Dec 22, 2009 21:51
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If you guys do a lot of painting with a spray can, get one of these if you don't already have one. http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarestore.com/49-266-spray-handles-equipment/krylon-snap-and-spray-handle-634793.aspx They snap right onto the top of the can and works like a real spray gun. They're fuckin great and I wish I knew about them sooner.
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Dec 22, 2009 22:29
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Brekelefuw, You should know the answer to this question... A friend told me he saw on "How it's made" they were making instruments and they were filling tubing with a mixture of ice and soap, freezing it, and then bend the tube. What can I use, and how can I replicate such a mixture at the home shop?
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Dec 22, 2009 23:42
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I think it's just dish soap that's been frothed up a little. Correct me if I'm wrong, Brek.
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Dec 23, 2009 00:02
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I have been told that they use Murphy's Oil Soap. I have asked around, and no one has been able to tell me the ratio. I assume you just want it to become ice, but not shatter when flexed. I guess you have to experiment. I did meet someone who uses the soap mixture and said that he froze the tubing in his shop's kitchen freezer. Instrument making shops would use liquid nitrogen to speed up the process. In our industry we also use pitch (tar stuff) to bend tubing, molten lead (although lead is being removed from the industry) and an alloy called cerrosafe or cerrobend. The last two are also known as woods metals. They are alloys of bismuth and other things and they expand by .0001" after an hour of cooling. They use it to cast gun barrels as well I hear. I haven't done any tube bending yet, but when I do, I am going to order me some cerrobend. When we order a part like a french horn or tuba leadpipe, the tube comes either pre-bent to fit the brand of instrument, or straight and filled with pitch so the tech can bend it how they want. Check youtube for trumpet making videos, or french horn making videos. There are lots, and they give you a bit of insight into it. Here is a website that goes through the entire trumpet making process with pictures. You can see their bottle of Murphy's in the tube bending section http://www.zacharymusic.com/Zachary_Music/ZTR900Factory.htm My next project is to make a bending jig, but I don't know how to plan out the hole placement, and how to make my different radius blocks. I have a 2 inch thick roll of acetal delrin I could use for bending pins possibly since I will be only bending brass and copper. Brekelefuw fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Dec 23, 2009 |
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Dec 23, 2009 01:09
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dv6speed posted:Brekelefuw, Not sure what type of tubing youre using but a common DIY method to build tubing for bikes or cages is to fill the tube with sand, cap the ends and heat the tube until malleable. That said if the wall thickness isnt fuckoff thick, pipe benders are getting more and more affordable, maybe one of those things and an ebay and criagslist local rss feed would be worth using to find a cheapie. Also you can always get 15-20% off at HF.
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Dec 23, 2009 04:43
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The way I've commonly seen this done was with playground sand. just cap an end, pack it tight with sand (I mean REALLY tight) then heat and bend to your heart's content. Worked pretty drat well too, not much deformation on the end products.
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Dec 23, 2009 21:00
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Blacksmith posted:The way I've commonly seen this done was with playground sand. just cap an end, pack it tight with sand (I mean REALLY tight) then heat and bend to your heart's content. Worked pretty drat well too, not much deformation on the end products. I don't know why, but in the music industry I have never heard of sand being used. I did hear a story about a company that made tubas. They would bend the bottom bow around an old oak tree to get the radius they wanted. Over the years, the bow radius changed because the tree kept growing.
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Dec 27, 2009 03:35
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Well the guy who was doing it wasn't making musical instruments, he was doing chandeliers and furniture. Like I said though, parts came out very well.
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Dec 27, 2009 20:36
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Yea Im talking about fabbing like bike frames and crap
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Dec 29, 2009 07:24
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Sand bending tubing is veddy dangerous , heat the pipe with one end open to make sure the sand is dry! Otherwise , you risk building a pipe bomb. Solder or lead is much safer .
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Dec 29, 2009 14:28
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flacoman954 posted:Sand bending tubing is veddy dangerous , heat the pipe with one end open to make sure the sand is dry! Otherwise , you risk building a pipe bomb. Solder or lead is much safer . In any event, I'm working with small 1/4" OD soft copper tubing. I got an idea for a little bending jig. If it works, I'll try to to post pics. Essentially, I have to get as tight a radius as possible while collapsing the tubing as little as possible.
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Dec 29, 2009 14:56
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You pour in solder or lead , let it cool, and the pipe bends as a solid bar. Once bent, you heat it again and let the solder drain out. Special low heat alloys are made for this purpose. Cerrosafe is a brandname that comes to mind
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Dec 29, 2009 15:00
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Interesting, that technique should come in handy for the future. Turns out that my original question of filling with soapy water (or anything for that matter) is moot, because I've since learned that what I'm bending has to be filled with a wick (cotton string.) By now you're wondering what the gently caress I'm making... I'm experimenting with alcohol stoves. I'll make a post about it at a later date when the experimentation phase is over. Edit: Another current project is cleaning my 2 workshops (1 basement shop and 1 garage shop) They have been a complete mess for about 10 years, and I'm loving tired of it. I'm finding tools I forgot I owned. AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Dec 29, 2009 |
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Dec 29, 2009 15:04
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flacoman954 posted:Sand bending tubing is veddy dangerous , heat the pipe with one end open to make sure the sand is dry! Otherwise , you risk building a pipe bomb. Solder or lead is much safer . Point. I don't know if both ends were capped when he was doing this or not, my bet would be that they were. He's using fairly thick steel tubing and it should be able to hold the pressure, not my game though. For copper I think it would be folly, too thin and too weak to hold the potential pressure that would build.
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Dec 29, 2009 15:11
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Someone's selling a 340 pound mousehole anvil 3 hours away from me for 1500 bucks. Looks like it's in good condition and it's never been resurfaced. Man, I'm really considering this. Who needs furniture anyway?
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Jan 3, 2010 19:25
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Slung Blade posted:Man, I'm really considering this. You can never have too much shop furniture! Fixed that for ya.
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Jan 3, 2010 19:46
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I'm with dv6speed. I'd be seriously considering it myself.
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Jan 4, 2010 08:31
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I just found this picture online that some guy took of a welding machine he just purchased. I had to post it here. I'd like to read the instruction manual!
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Jan 5, 2010 05:56
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Holy gently caress. I've seen terrible translations before, but that is awful. Kwang Hi Phuk Company posted:TO CONNECT THE PLACE OF THE GROUND THING
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Jan 5, 2010 07:43
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