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If I'm picking guys on the current roster, I'm thinking that Swagger (All American amateur), Ziggler (far better amateur credentials and I think came close to an NCAA title in his weight class), and Benjamin (great amateur and arguably the best athlete in WWE, 100% would have been in MMA if breaking in now) would be my top picks. There aren't any legit strikers other than fat old Big Show, although I've seen clips of Batista doing ok in training.MassRayPer posted:Kozlov or maybe Regal depending on the rules. Regal was trained in the Blackpool area which tended to train wrestlers in real catch wrestling as well as professional wrestling. I assume Finlay has some of that training along with just being a tough guy. Regal learned more of a carnival-style, where you're getting hooks on drunk guys who can't fight. He'll even admit that it isn't the same as submission wrestling, which you're thinking of. quote:Kozlov has legitimate sambo and kickboxing experience, so I'd put him as a big favorite to win it. His so-called legit experience is exagerated. I think there's records for one sambo match, which he lost. quote:Billy Robinson is convinced that DH Smith could be a UFC Champion if he could train him, so maybe he'd have a chance as well. Billy means his physical ability and a bit of training he had, not that he knows how to do MMA or submission wrestling but his potential. quote:I guess if you throw Big Show in there he'd be a favorite, but I imagine Kozlov would be able to neutralize his size. Big Show is not a favorite. He's overweight, slow, and leg kicks will destroy him easily. You just have to be moderately agile to avoid his punches. quote:As for Meng, he was a tough guy, but stories of him being this amazing shoot fighter are overblown. Bischoff tried to get him to enter an early UFC (at a time when there weren't any all around fighters) and he told him no, he'd have no chance. You had part of the story. Meng said no because he was already older and beat-up by that point and because street fighting is completely different from MMA. That said, he is overrated. I loved how Wrestling Observer/F4WOnline did a poll asking who the toughest wrestler was and Haku was #1, with Angle a distant #2. Meltzer and Alvarez pretty much spend 15 minutes rightfully making fun of all the voters for it. And for the record, the correct choice is Dan Hodge. WeaselWeaz fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Jan 16, 2010 |
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Jan 16, 2010 07:01
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Yeah, I guess if you were to look for favorites you'd look to guys with amateur backgrounds like Swagger and Benjamin. poo poo, even before he started his MMA training I bet Brock Lesnar would have destroyed everyone if they held a Brawl for All in like 2003.
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Jan 16, 2010 07:07
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WeaselWeaz posted:I loved how Wrestling Observer/F4WOnline did a poll asking who the toughest wrestler was and Haku was #1, with Angle a distant #2. Meltzer and Alvarez pretty much spend 15 minutes rightfully making fun of all the voters for it. And for the record, the correct choice is Dan Hodge. Did you see the WWE 24/7 roundtable about badasses also? Between them explaining all the highlights of Hodge's career and JR's story of Hodge's softspoken badassness, I'm convinced that if we could take a time machine, pluck out Danny Hodge in his prime, and bring him to today, he could decimate MMA. In any weight class he wanted.
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Jan 16, 2010 07:10
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Is BFA just boxing or MMA?
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Jan 16, 2010 07:23
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WeaselWeaz posted:
The size of the WWE ring combined with the doubt that anyone in WWE has stand up fighting experience would mitigate those factors. Plus, even MMA fighters going into an MMA fight with a leg kick gameplan often either forget it, or fail to implement it, so leg kicks are not the be all-end all. (See Liddell/Rampage 1) And yes, I've said he's overweight and injury prone, but given the rules of the first one I don't think he'd be at a huge disadvantage where all of the wrestlers would be. Wikipedia lists Kozlov as winning an American Sambo championship, but I can't find any evidence of such a tournament, so either it didn't happen or was so unimportant that it didn't matter. Plus, Wikipedia.
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Jan 16, 2010 07:23
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:Is BFA just boxing or MMA? The BFA had wrestlers wearing boxing gloves, 3 rounds and a point system. Points were awarded for knockdowns and takedowns but there was no ground and pound like in MMA.
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Jan 16, 2010 07:36
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:Is BFA just boxing or MMA? For some reason I immediately thought "Bachelor of Fine Arts", which is neither.
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Jan 16, 2010 07:42
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 in my estimation it'd probably be MVP
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Jan 16, 2010 07:57
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This brings up a question for me. I know Kozlov is Ukrainian and not Russian, but did he serve in the Ukrainian military? When he first came to mind I thought of his "military background" not thinking "hey that might just be kayfabed." I didn't even realize he had "Sambo Tournaments" however legitimate in his history, I just assumed that with his military background he'd know combat sambo and given the rules of BFA would probably be better off. I just see a judo influenced fighter having better luck with takedowns in BFA than a wrestler with how screwy the rules are. It's all pretty silly to discuss in depth, but it's fun since we can actually think about WHICH WRESTLER WOULD WIN IN A FIGHT!
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Jan 16, 2010 08:16
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Web Jew.0 posted:
Its not prison rules.
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Jan 16, 2010 08:34
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In that case my money's on the grilled cheese sandwich.
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Jan 16, 2010 08:38
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It depends whether they held BFA2010 between now and Cena regaining his title, because he's vowed not to lose at all 'til then, and Cena would not lie.
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Jan 16, 2010 08:39
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DannoMack posted:It depends whether they held BFA2010 between now and Cena regaining his title, because he's vowed not to lose at all 'til then, and Cena would not lie. He wouldn't enter. Brawl 4 All bans ground and pound, so I imagine that includes pound and ground.
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Jan 16, 2010 08:43
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CM Junk posted:In that case my money's on the grilled cheese sandwich. Wow, that's pretty racist but correct.
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Jan 16, 2010 18:45
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I was watching Wrestling with Shadows again and Vince's post-screwjob interview seemed pretty honest and low-key. How long did it take for them for Vince to become "Mr McMahon" based on this, was it soon after, or what? Was Bret ever considered a truly big draw?
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Jan 16, 2010 20:33
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Fallon posted:I was watching Wrestling with Shadows again and Vince's post-screwjob interview seemed pretty honest and low-key. How long did it take for them for Vince to become "Mr McMahon" based on this, was it soon after, or what? Vince had begun playing the authority figure on television for a while, but as I recall, the "Bret screwed Bret" interview really created the Mr. McMahon character. quote:Was Bret ever considered a truly big draw? Someone better versed than I can answer this with more quality, but as I always saw it, Bret was always a steady presence in the main event and he sold a lot of merchandise, but he was never a Hogan / Rock / Austin draw, outside of Canada.
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Jan 16, 2010 21:52
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Fallon posted:Was Bret ever considered a truly big draw? Bret's run as the true top dog in the company coincided with one of the worst periods in business in WWF history. The company had a lot of other problems during that time period, so the downturn in business wasn't entirely or even mostly his fault, but that's really all we have to go on because at other points in his career he wasn't the main focus of whatever company he worked for. Bret was always really over, and probably was even considered a big draw in Canada and Europe, but not so much in the U.S. Basically between Hogan's decline in popularity in the early '90s and Austin's rise in '97, no one was drawing much money for the WWF. Bret was kind of in the Shawn Michaels state of being really over, but not selling out stadiums.
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Jan 16, 2010 22:17
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A couple years back I remember reading somewhere that in the period from WWE buying out ECW to post-invasion WWE bumped a lot of the ECW roster down into development because apart from the invasion angle they had no idea what to do with them, and they wound up eventually letting go of about 75% of the roster for no other reason than their on-screen persona was too much like a present WWE wrestler and the writers couldn't come up with a better idea for them. I stopped watching right around the invasion storyline and started getting back into wrestling around '06-'07 so I wouldn't know personally how true this is but it seems like a pretty dick move if it happened. Did it? *Edit = and for that matter, did I miss anything really good while I was tuned out? I've done a little catching up, but are there any events really worth checking out from that time period I missed? LightsGameraAction fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jan 16, 2010 |
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Jan 16, 2010 22:18
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Kentucky Shark posted:Bret was always really over, and probably was even considered a big draw in Canada and Europe, but not so much in the U.S. To build on this, Bret was pretty insanely over in Europe and had a strong international fanbase, but he wasn't bringing in new fans the way Hogan and Austin did. I also think he could have been a legit big draw for WCW if they hadn't hosed it up.
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Jan 16, 2010 22:21
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Does anyone have any info on Vince's World Bodybuilding Federation (WBF)? What the hell was Vince thinking?
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Jan 16, 2010 22:36
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crankdatbatman posted:Does anyone have any info on Vince's World Bodybuilding Federation (WBF)? What the hell was Vince thinking? Vince has always been a body building fanatic, and saw an opening to bully the body building companies of the time and take over the market with a slicker more WWF-like presentation. Plus he saw it as a chance to sell lots of supplements and make money that way.
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Jan 16, 2010 22:49
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MassRayPer posted:Vince has always been a body building fanatic, and saw an opening to bully the body building companies of the time and take over the market with a slicker more WWF-like presentation. Plus he saw it as a chance to sell lots of supplements and make money that way. Mr. Perfect wanted to help his son with some ICO-PRO supplements before a Pop Warner playoff football game. He got so sick he poo poo his pants on the field.
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Jan 16, 2010 23:09
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Moose Bigelow posted:Mr. Perfect wanted to help his son with some ICO-PRO supplements before a Pop Warner playoff football game. He got so sick he poo poo his pants on the field. Guess he didn't want it
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Jan 16, 2010 23:15
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I know this is a subjective question, but what is the worst "Match of the Year" when you look back on it? I'm going to say that Mankind/Undertaker Hell in a Cell match from the 1998 King of the Ring, winner of PWI's 1998 match of the year.
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Jan 16, 2010 23:26
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Moose Bigelow posted:Mr. Perfect wanted to help his son with some ICO-PRO supplements before a Pop Warner playoff football game. He got so sick he poo poo his pants on the field. Oh man, is that the one in FCW Development right now?
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Jan 16, 2010 23:28
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Rusty Shackelford posted:I know this is a subjective question, but what is the worst "Match of the Year" when you look back on it? That match was so overrated. It was two spots and a lot of standing around with maybe 5-10 minutes of actual wrestling which was terrible.
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Jan 16, 2010 23:28
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Moose Bigelow posted:That match was so overrated. It was two spots and a lot of standing around with maybe 5-10 minutes of actual wrestling which was terrible. Considering Undertaker was wrestling with a broken foot and Mankind had, what, pneumonia? I remember he said he was sick in his book, it makes sense in some ways that Foley would choose to plan it like that.
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Jan 16, 2010 23:30
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Dago Moustache posted:Considering Undertaker was wrestling with a broken foot and Mankind had, what, pneumonia? I remember he said he was sick in his book, it makes sense in some ways that Foley would choose to plan it like that. I'm not critiquing the plan; I'm critiquing the choice as MOTY when there wasn't much wrestling, let alone great wrestling in the match.
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Jan 16, 2010 23:33
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It's certainly a match where story-telling covers for lack of actual wrestling. It's aged quite badly, particualrly with the proliforation of HiaC matches and people jumping off high things. That said, it has a vertain rare aura of importance and excitement which is hard to replicate. Foley's table bump has to be one of the most repeatedly used clips in any WWE video or montage.
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Jan 16, 2010 23:40
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What would you have chosen as MOTY then? HITC will be forever famous because of the Holy poo poo factor and if you ever want to "impress" someone with pro wrestling, I'd show that one. But I understand its not the best wrestling of the year. But I'm having a hard time recalling any great matches from '98 to be honest. Maybe the Austin/Dude Love match where Austin counts the pin with Vince's hand?
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Jan 16, 2010 23:43
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It wasn't the best wrestled match of the year but it's the most memorable and easily the biggest looking back. Some choices are based on historical significance more than anything else. I don't necessarily disagree with the HITC choice.
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Jan 16, 2010 23:48
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oldpainless posted:What would you have chosen as MOTY then? HITC will be forever famous because of the Holy poo poo factor and if you ever want to "impress" someone with pro wrestling, I'd show that one. But I understand its not the best wrestling of the year. But I'm having a hard time recalling any great matches from '98 to be honest. Maybe the Austin/Dude Love match where Austin counts the pin with Vince's hand? Austin Foley from Over The Edge where you had Patterson as announcer and Briscoe as timekeeper and Vince as guest ref was awesome.
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Jan 16, 2010 23:51
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oldpainless posted:What would you have chosen as MOTY then? HITC will be forever famous because of the Holy poo poo factor and if you ever want to "impress" someone with pro wrestling, I'd show that one. But I understand its not the best wrestling of the year. But I'm having a hard time recalling any great matches from '98 to be honest. Maybe the Austin/Dude Love match where Austin counts the pin with Vince's hand? Yeah. Austin/Dude Love from Over the Edge was probably the best, with honorable mention to the HHH/Rock Ladder Match from Summerslam and maybe the Shawn/'Taker casket match.
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Jan 16, 2010 23:52
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This is the most in-depth article I've ever found on the WBF. A great read: http://pwchronicle.blogspot.com/2005/12/history-definitive-history-of-wbf.html Here's a sample: quote:Spectators sat restless in the Arie Crown Theatre while sponsors gave their pitches as the 1990 Mr. Olympia was coming to an end. What everyone was confronted with next was a total shock, even to Joe Weider and the competing athletes themselves. The $5,000 that Vince McMahon spent to secure a promotional booth for Bodybuilding Lifestyles at the event also bought Tom Platz, the magazine's spokesman, the stage for a moment to promote the publication in front of the 4,600 bodybuilding fans in attendance . Platz began to speak: "I have a very important announcement to make. We at Titan Sports are proud to announce the formation of the World Bodybuilding Federation. And we are going to kick the IFBB's rear end!". The lobby doors opened, and beautiful women wearing sashes embedded with the Bodybuilding Lifestyles logo filed into the theatre handing out slickly presented advertising for the WBF. These fliers announced the formation of the World Bodybuilding Federation, and claimed that the upstart would change the face of the bodybuilding world forever with "dramatic new events and the richest prize money in the history of the sport". While this invasion was going on, McMahon's people were covertly slipping lucrative contracts under the hotel room doors the Olympia contestants. It was vintage Vince McMahon, and his plan was to take bodybuilding mainstream in the same way he had taken wrestling mainstream in the 80's --by crushing his opponents with better production, and by stealing their most marketable talent with more lucrative contracts and promises of the platform to make them stars. He would make Lee Haney's $70,000 first place prize --enormous money by IFBB standards --seem like pocket change. Tato fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jan 17, 2010 |
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Jan 17, 2010 00:00
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sportsgenius86 posted:It wasn't the best wrestled match of the year but it's the most memorable and easily the biggest looking back. Keep in mind the only thing they really had to go on for Foley taking that bump off the top of the cell was Michaels who took a much less dangerous version of the bump, and it's not like they prepared any special padding or anything for him in preparation. They were really playing with fire in that Foley had an entirely different physique than Michaels and they really had no clue as a result how him being on top of the cage with Taker was going to play out. There's only a handful of wrestlers to this day who would go into a match like that with as many X-factors and things they couldn't expect as there were at the time. There's even less who would go into a match like that, get that hosed up, and work through it to still try and put on a match.
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Jan 17, 2010 00:04
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LightsGameraAction posted:when you consider what happened to Foley and how he voluntarily kept the match going beyond that . . . There's even less who would go into a match like that, get that hosed up, and work through it to still try and put on a match. I find it hard to give Foley too much credit for this when we know and he admits he was 99% unconscious and didn't fully realize what had happened; all he knew was that he was wrestling and wasn't finished. It's remarkable, yes, but it isn't great or admirable.
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Jan 17, 2010 00:09
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tzirean posted:I find it hard to give Foley too much credit for this when we know and he admits he was 99% unconscious and didn't fully realize what had happened; all he knew was that he was wrestling and wasn't finished. It's remarkable, yes, but it isn't great or admirable. I find it admirable. He was injured and God knows what else he was thinking, but he still thought he had a job to do and entertain the people and thats exactly what he did. Its a testament to toughness and "the show must go on" more than anything else. Foley wanted to finish the match while in tremendous pain (even if he was loopy and somewhat unaware). HHH did the same thing when he tore his quad and stayed in the Walls of Jericho and finished the match. Vince tore both quads and finished the angle he was in at RR 05. Nash tore his quad and....fell down immediately and couldn't move. But my point remains that the act is admirable.
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Jan 17, 2010 00:14
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oldpainless posted:But my point remains that the act is admirable. The attitude is admirable. The act was stupid.
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Jan 17, 2010 00:16
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Foley is Good.
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Jan 17, 2010 00:17
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tzirean posted:I find it hard to give Foley too much credit for this when we know and he admits he was 99% unconscious and didn't fully realize what had happened; all he knew was that he was wrestling and wasn't finished. It's remarkable, yes, but it isn't great or admirable. There's also some fog in there, as Terry Funk claims that both Cell bumps were planned and Foley talked to him about how to make the match watchable, while Foley insists that only the fall off the Cell was in the plan. Both guys' minds are pretty much mush at this point, so it's impossible to say who's correct, but I lean towards Funk on this one. But, really, if not for the two major bumps, no one would remember Taker / Foley '98.
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Jan 17, 2010 00:24
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