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CM Junk posted:- The look on Undertaker's face at WM25 after HBK kicked out of the first Tombstone. The master of mind games after 20 years had finally been broken down and with one incredulous look he showed that he realized he wasn't unbeatable. Similar to this, in the lead up to the match, HBK constantly got away from any comeuppance from Undertaker and looked to be having the time of his life, repeatedly pointing out that he wasn't scared of Taker and was merely amused by Taker's attempts to "mindgame" him. Then, after all the running and laughing and escaping, they finally have their match and almost immediately HBK is running about having fun and....  Boom! Playtime's over, Shawn.
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Jan 18, 2010 00:50
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CM Junk posted:- The look on Undertaker's face at WM25 after HBK kicked out of the first Tombstone. The master of mind games after 20 years had finally been broken down and with one incredulous look he showed that he realized he wasn't unbeatable. I figured that had more to do with Michaels kicking out of a chokeslam, then a Last Ride, THEN the Tombstone, which few people ever kick out of. It looked to me more like a "What the hell does it take to put this guy away?" face, but that doesn't make it any less awesome 
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Jan 18, 2010 01:05
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BlueArmyMan posted:I figured that had more to do with Michaels kicking out of a chokeslam, then a Last Ride, THEN the Tombstone, which few people ever kick out of. It looked to me more like a "What the hell does it take to put this guy away?" face, but that doesn't make it any less awesome Well, that goes without saying. That's how everyone reads into it, and for good reason, but on top of that I see it as Undertaker finally showing that he has a human side and that he can wrestle with an emotion other than "I am going to murder you and any offense you get in on me will be taken as an insult". Jerusalem posted:Similar to this, in the lead up to the match, HBK constantly got away from any comeuppance from Undertaker and looked to be having the time of his life, repeatedly pointing out that he wasn't scared of Taker and was merely amused by Taker's attempts to "mindgame" him. Then, after all the running and laughing and escaping, they finally have their match and almost immediately HBK is running about having fun and.... And the fact that Shawn responded with equal levels of seriousness that almost managed to break Taker down makes it all the more brilliant. Dr. Ass fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jan 18, 2010 |
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Jan 18, 2010 01:14
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CM Junk posted:Frankensteiner throws the opponent off the top turnbuckle from a handstand position, Hurricanrana involves jumping onto the opponent's shoulders and taking them down. So Trish was the last WWE wrestler to actually do a Frankensteiner? MassRayPer posted:The rana involves a pin. It translates to "Hurricane Pin" while a Frankensteiner doesn't have to end in a pin. This is how I've understood it as well.
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Jan 18, 2010 03:25
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Okay, related question: what's the difference between a hurricanrana and a headscissors?
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Jan 18, 2010 04:22
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bonesquid posted:Okay, related question: what's the difference between a hurricanrana and a headscissors? Basically a headscissors is any move when you use your legs to wrap around an opponents head. So, all ranas are head scissors, but not all head scissors are ranas. You can also do head scissors from different positions. Anyone who played WWF Warzone probably abused the gently caress out of HBK's wacky head scissors.
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Jan 18, 2010 04:25
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anakha posted:So Trish was the last WWE wrestler to actually do a Frankensteiner? pretty sure CM Punk, Morrison, and Evan Bourne have done Frankensteiners or Super Franksteiners before after Trish.
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Jan 18, 2010 04:48
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MassRayPer posted:The rana involves a pin. It translates to "Hurricane Pin" while a Frankensteiner doesn't have to end in a pin.  Rana means frog!I believe it refers to the specific pin where you're sitting on the guy and hooking the legs.
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Jan 18, 2010 06:33
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MassRayPer posted:Basically a headscissors is any move when you use your legs to wrap around an opponents head. So, all ranas are head scissors, but not all head scissors are ranas. or rey mysterio's in 09. running fast uncounterable headscissors that does very little damage but adds up over time...yeeeah...gently caress rey mysterio.
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Jan 18, 2010 07:34
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What's the difference between a hurricarana and a hudancarana? (The move Sabu used to do)
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Jan 18, 2010 11:47
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Super Ninja Fish posted:What's the difference between a hurricarana and a hudancarana? (The move Sabu used to do) As with most of the moves in Sabu's arsenal, the Hudancarana was him leaping at his opponent, and hoping everything turned out all right at the end.
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Jan 18, 2010 12:00
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How about a Heinekenrana? I know.
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Jan 18, 2010 12:04
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At this point, there isn't any difference between a hurricanrana and a frankensteiner in North America. Same with lariats/clotheslines. Chinese whispers in the wrestling world makes any kind of "technical" name for a move pretty arbritary and pointless.
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Jan 18, 2010 14:00
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Davros1 posted:As with most of the moves in Sabu's arsenal, the Hudancarana was him leaping at his opponent. More like. Hoping really wasnt his style.
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Jan 18, 2010 14:44
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CM Junk posted:- Randy Orton's strategy during his Iron Man match with John Cena. Cena got Orton in the STFU early on in the match and Orton tapped immediately so that Cena could get an easy fall without Orton having to suffer nearly any damage at all. Orton then more or less pounded the piss out of Cena for 20 minutes straight until he got cocky and gave Cena time to recover, gain an upperhand and tie up the score. With about a minute left Orton started freaking out because he realized he wasn't in a position to put Cena away anymore and you could see Orton starting to panic:
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Jan 18, 2010 17:26
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I don't watch a lot of TNA, could someone explain how and why Matt Morgan is apparently so over? Last I heard he was a coat rack.
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Jan 18, 2010 21:37
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Minidust posted:As Orton was struggling to get out of the final STF, Cena turned it around so that Orton was facing AWAY from the Titantron once the move was clinched in. Orton could no longer see how much time was left, and he tapped. Not sure if that was intentional, but it added a neat touch of psychology to that finish. If that's the case, then it would've been brilliant had the announcers actually sold that fact.
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Jan 18, 2010 21:37
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CM Junk posted:If that's the case, then it would've been brilliant had the announcers actually sold that fact. But even expecting the Raw announcers to even be replacement-level announcers is too much. Bring back
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Jan 18, 2010 22:09
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Omally posted:I don't watch a lot of TNA, could someone explain how and why Matt Morgan is apparently so over? Last I heard he was a coat rack. He's not super over. He does some somewhat impressive stuff in the ring but has the charisma of, well a coat rack. Right now I can only say he is somewhat over with the help of Hernandez who he formed a tag team with after the each got a main event push and then were shoved back down into the middle card.
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Jan 18, 2010 22:24
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One of the best matches with good example of "ring psychology" I can think of is Edge/Taker from WM24. Edge had scouted out all of Taker's moves and was slipping out and avoiding them perfectly.
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Jan 18, 2010 23:30
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Hey, does anyone know if Lesnar was actually a draw? I know he was popular and I loving loved him when he was wrestling, but does anyone actually know if he sold out arenas or drew big buyrates for PPV? I've wondered about this for awhile.
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Jan 18, 2010 23:36
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The age of drawing is long, long over so it's really hard to tell with anyone anymore, but he's headlined plenty of PPVs as both face and heel (including WMXIX), sold a shitload of merch, and was on the cover (by himself!) of the only Smackdown game to have a non-Rock catchphrase as the title. By all accounts, yes, he appears to have been a draw in WWE. He sure as poo poo is one for UFC now.
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Jan 18, 2010 23:47
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CM Junk posted:The age of drawing is long, long over so it's really hard to tell with anyone anymore This is really just true for attendance, where people are paying to go to the WWE wrestling specatular at the local arena. It does matter when it comes to merch sales, PPV, and ratings.
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Jan 19, 2010 00:09
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oldpainless posted:Hey, does anyone know if Lesnar was actually a draw? I know he was popular and I loving loved him when he was wrestling, but does anyone actually know if he sold out arenas or drew big buyrates for PPV? I've wondered about this for awhile.
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Jan 19, 2010 03:18
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WeaselWeaz posted:This is really just true for attendance, where people are paying to go to the WWE wrestling specatular at the local arena. It does matter when it comes to merch sales, PPV, and ratings. That was more my point, that it's really hard to say any one person can draw an arena when people are going to a RAW show for Cena, HHH, HBK and Orton or a Smackdown show for Undertaker, Mysterio, Morrison, and Jericho. People pretty much go to WWE shows because they're WWE shows now. By the remaining criteria, however, I'd say Lesnar was definitely a draw.
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Jan 19, 2010 04:05
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Capsaicin posted:One of the best matches with good example of "ring psychology" I can think of is Edge/Taker from WM24. Edge had scouted out all of Taker's moves and was slipping out and avoiding them perfectly. This is pretty much every Taker main event with an opponent who is smaller than Batista, and the whole "HE'S GOT HIM SCOUTED" thing doesn't wear well when you think about it. The guy has been wrestling for twenty years at least once a month, if you don't have him scouted by now you never will. Natural ability and skill is what it should be sold as, not Edge watching Undertaker tapes like a football coach. quote:Since about 1993, there hasn't been a "draw" in wrestling other than the names "WWF", "WCW", and "WWE". One could make arguments for the Rocks, Stone-Colds, DDPs and Goldbergs of the world, but I really don't see any of those guys selling out arenas by themselves. Trying to figure out what your possible logic is here and it's just eluding me. Stone Cold and Rock pretty much defined the WWF product and if WCW wasn't retarded to the extreme they probably could have had Goldberg and DDP lifting the entire company up in just the same way. Acting like people ever paid money to see Jeff Jarrett v. Chyna and Right to Censor or something is a pretty bold claim. Wrestling companies still need draws, for crowds and everything else. Also Cena/DX/Undertaker are easily the biggest draws on the cards, and without these guys the shows become a lot less attractive. WWE do hang their hats on several people, but nothing's really changed about the business, it's just that the writing's bad, the competition is low, and very few new major draws have been created since about 1997.
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Jan 19, 2010 09:22
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I think the appeal behind Big Undertaker matches is watching how the opponents cope with him. Micheals decided he was gonna turn the mind games around on him. He put on white clothes, did fuckery with the casket, etc. It worked until the night of the match, when Micheals realized oh gently caress, the games are over and I have a 7ft man who wants to beat me to hell. Edge was falling victim to UT's games bad. Growing increasingly dependent on the family around him to give him comfort and assistance. Once it came to the point that he could no longer get their help he started losing it. Turning to Foley, he realized this and just went crazy. Becoming obsessed with UT rather than fearing him.
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Jan 19, 2010 09:32
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LividLiquid posted:Since about 1993, there hasn't been a "draw" in wrestling other than the names "WWF", "WCW", and "WWE". One could make arguments for the Rocks, Stone-Colds, DDPs and Goldbergs of the world, but I really don't see any of those guys selling out arenas by themselves. This isn't true at all. The "nWo" was a draw. Hulk Hogan vs Ric Flair was a draw. Steve Austin was a draw. The WCW brand was never that strong on its own, especially. Even at its peak it had trouble becoming synonymous with wrestling like the WWF had been in the 80s. But when you look at how house shows, PPVs and ratings trended in the mid to late 90s, there were definitely specific draws and people no one gave a poo poo about. The best example is WCW where the Hogan shows did much better than the non Hogan shows until 1997, and Souled Out 98 was the first time a non Hogan show did much better numbers than some Hogan shows. You can also see how Hogan wore out his welcome and fans got sick of him in the pre and post nWo eras. And WeaselWeaz is pretty wrong about draws in terms of ratings. Both times Cena has been out it has meant very little to the Raw rating. Both of his major injuries happened in football season and the ratings were about what you'd expect for Raw vs the NFL, and didn't really pop up much when he came back. That isn't to say Cena can't draw ratings. If you put Cena on ECW he'd probably pop the rating up a bit since the ECW rating is so small. But, there's no one in the WWE who has that sort of crossover stardom who draws in additional fans when they are TV like an Austin or a Rock would 10 years ago. Edit: A good example is how Raw has been having troubles in the last year with the second hour doing either a small increase on the first, staying the same or in a few weeks going down. This tends to happen in TNA a lot, but is a sign the WWE fanbase is less drawn in by hype and certain stars. Also see how the DX Reunion has flopped this time after being a pretty big draw in 2006. The only thing it has done is really pop merchandise, which I'd agree is the one place where "draws" really exist today. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Jan 19, 2010 |
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Jan 19, 2010 09:44
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This reminds me of how when the New Age Outlaws were in TNA they talked about how they were huge draws as WWF tag team champions and sold out MSG sixteen times or something
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Jan 19, 2010 11:08
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Is Kenta Kobashi's little-used "Diamond Head" maneuver named after the metal band?
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Jan 19, 2010 19:39
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MassRayPer posted:The only thing it has done is really pop merchandise, which I'd agree is the one place where "draws" really exist today.
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Jan 19, 2010 20:12
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What wrestler would you say my posting correlates to? Jerusalem is poster of the year so I would say he is Chris Jericho or John Cena. I am trying to find out if I am WH2K's JTTS.
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Jan 19, 2010 21:58
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What's JTTS? I keep seeing that acronym around here.
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Jan 19, 2010 22:23
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Jobber to the stars.
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Jan 19, 2010 22:24
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LividLiquid posted:What's JTTS? I keep seeing that acronym around here. Jobber to the Stars. Basically a guy that was higher than Jobber status but lower than midcard.
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Jan 19, 2010 22:24
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Moose Bigelow posted:What wrestler would you say my posting correlates to? Jerusalem is poster of the year so I would say he is Chris Jericho or John Cena. I am trying to find out if I am WH2K's JTTS. Hey there, Slam Master J!
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Jan 19, 2010 22:25
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Thanks. Heard the term, but I'm bad with acronyms. Makes the Games forum infuriating.
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Jan 19, 2010 22:31
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LividLiquid posted:You spend three paragraphs tearing my argument apart, then say this and agree with me. I'm confused. Except you said 1993 was the cut off date and that the WCW brand was a draw after this point. So no, we aren't agreeing. It isn't nitpicking, the current status quo didn't exist for about a decade after you say it did.
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Jan 19, 2010 23:33
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MassRayPer posted:Except you said 1993 was the cut off date and that the WCW brand was a draw after this point. So no, we aren't agreeing. It isn't nitpicking, the current status quo didn't exist for about a decade after you say it did.
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Jan 20, 2010 02:53
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LividLiquid posted:Oh. Gotchya'. That's a part of my statement that I don't really care about. I probably should have peppered it with a "like" or something, but my only real point is there's no single performer who could turn a company around at the moment or sell out an arena by himself. Bruno Sammartino  Give the people what they want, Vince! Bring back Bruno!
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Jan 20, 2010 03:19
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