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So, I would appreciate some recommendations for my current project. We are in the process of building a house (in Ontario, Canada) and I am wiring the place up myself. The entry/family room/staircase/upstairs hall/nook are all in one big "grand area" that is 2 storeys tall, and as you can imagine, there is ALOT of lighting involved. My issue is this. When we're sitting in the family room, I don't necessarily want the lights in the entryway or the kitchen nook on. I also want to be able to control this entire common area with dimmers and from just about anywhere in this approximately 2,000 square foot space. There is also accent lighting to consider. I'd really rather not have 100 3 or 4 way dimmer switches in controlling this area. So I started looking into smarthome lighting control systems. Unfortunately my hapless googling has only turned up systems such as X10 or Insteon which seem as if they are both intended for retrofit and rather unreliable (being wireless or using the existing romex for data transfer). My ideal solution would be to have a bank of dimmers/relays in the basement by the panel that control, lets say, 8 banks of lights. I would then place about 5-6 "scene programmable" switches (that ideally wire up to the dimmers/relays for reliability's sake) strategically throughout the area. My biggest catch here is that I must be able to do it myself because I really don't want to have to pay someone to come set up this system when I am confident I can do it myself. I've found a few systems online that are only sold to and by authorized dealers who must install them. So, basically, what I'm looking for are recommendations as to systems that I should use.
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Dec 7, 2009 07:44
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Desi posted:My biggest catch here is that I must be able to do it myself because I really don't want to have to pay someone to come set up this system when I am confident I can do it myself. I've found a few systems online that are only sold to and by authorized dealers who must install them. So, basically, what I'm looking for are recommendations as to systems that I should use. Go to Lowes. Go back to the electrical section. Pick up the "Leviton Home Automation" booklet. Read that. Make sure everything you want to do is in there. I've used some of their stuff, and it's very simple. They claim that stacking more components on it to make a whole-house automated lighting solution is just as simple as one bank of dimmers with an RF remote.
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Dec 7, 2009 14:23
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Desi posted:My ideal solution would be to have a bank of dimmers/relays in the basement by the panel that control, lets say, 8 banks of lights. I would then place about 5-6 "scene programmable" switches (that ideally wire up to the dimmers/relays for reliability's sake) strategically throughout the area. As a professional lighting designer, I say you should not use consumer grade Leviton products. You're much better off using architectural lighting controls and dimmers that use the DMX-512 standard, so you're not locked into one particular vendor. I'd recommend using Leprecon controls and dimmers, because they're fairly cheap and still very functional, and DMX means you can add more dimmers (up to 512 total) or control panels, or even replace your existing system without having to pull new wires. For purchasing the equipment, contact Leprecon and ask them to direct you to a local vendor. Other companies that make DMX-compatible architectural control and dimming products are ETC, Lehigh Electric Products, Phillips Lighting, Lex Products, and Elation Lighting. Shop around... for each of these you'll want to find the local distributor and talk to them about prices. corgski fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Dec 8, 2009 |
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Dec 8, 2009 01:41
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thelightguy posted:As a professional lighting designer, I say you should not use consumer grade Leviton products. You're much better off using architectural lighting controls and dimmers that use the DMX-512 standard, so you're not locked into one particular vendor. I'd recommend using Leprecon controls and dimmers, because they're fairly cheap and still very functional, and DMX means you can add more dimmers (up to 512 total) or control panels, or even replace your existing system without having to pull new wires. For purchasing the equipment, contact Leprecon and ask them to direct you to a local vendor. Um, he wants a to have little more control of the lights in his house, not stage a musical or set up a dance club. He'd be much better served, both aesthetically and functionally by something actually designed for home automation. Systems like Crestron can get very expensive, so the Leviton suggestion was very reasonable.
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Dec 8, 2009 03:59
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eddiewalker posted:Um, he wants a to have little more control of the lights in his house, not stage a musical or set up a dance club. He was asking for architectural lighting control, not a full blown home automation system. (And even then, you should get a high-end one that supports DMX, so you can add more lights simply by buying another dimmer unit from any one of a number of companies, instead of dealing with the proprietary, often horribly crippled and overpriced expansion options provided by most low to mid-grade home automation systems.) I've installed architectural systems from Lehigh and ETC in offices and yes, even homes, so I don't think it's out of line to suggest more-expandable mid-end to high-end equipment for someone who asked for it. Also, Lehigh I know for a fact makes nice looking control surfaces that install in single and double gang boxes.
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Dec 8, 2009 04:15
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thelightguy posted:He was asking for architectural lighting control, not a full blown home automation system. (And even then, you should get a high-end one that supports DMX, so you can add more lights simply by buying another dimmer unit from any one of a number of companies, instead of dealing with the proprietary, often horribly crippled and overpriced expansion options provided by most low to mid-grade home automation systems.) By that same token, I've seen Leviton and Cooper whizbang 128-channel lighting control panels in 4-star resorts, so they do make really capable stuff that could also be used in a home.
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Dec 8, 2009 12:34
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I don't know how far off topic this is but would there happen to be any Canadian electricians here familiar with the CEC? I'm in my trade-school right now and we're doing code, actually my exam is tomorrow morning. My module(government mandated sort of 'workbook') shows 12-1102 Restrictions on use (for Rigid PVC) Rigid PVC conduit shall not be used: -In hazardous locations -In buildings of non-combustible construction -When enclosed in thermal insulation now I don't know how old this module is (it's more or less trying to explain to rules we need to know for this year) but currently under 12-1102 in the 2009 CEC book only the last of those 3 rules is stated, and I've found a rule similar to the first in a nearby rule.. I'm just looking for where it now states you can't use PVC in woodframe. There is no delta next to 12-1102 so I'm a little stumped here... you can't use PVC in woodframe now, can you? eh, it was worth a try posting here
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Dec 16, 2009 05:25
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I've been having an issue in my new house (built in November 09) for the past 2 weeks. I've been tripping the breaker several times per day. So far I have found that -my bedroom -the main hallway lights -the utility room (lights + regular outlets) -one wall of our "loft" which has one outlet are all on the same circuit. Tonight my roommate came home and opened up the garage which tripped it again, and the garage is right below my room so I assume that outlet on the ceiling in the garage is on the circuit as well. In my bedroom I have a 42" LCD TV, my computer (600w power supply), 19" LCD and 21" LCD, an acer aspire revo (very small form factor pc, ac adapter is 19v), along with one floor lamp that has a 10w CFL. The loft only has a wireless access point. There is nothing in the utility room but the washer/dryer. My question is, should so much be on one circuit? It is to the point where I can't turn on my tv unless I turn off something else. I had all this stuff in my previous apartment bedroom with no issues. It doesn't seem like enough to cause the breaker to trip so could there be some fault in the wiring? I'm going to call the electrician tomorrow but would like to know what my options are, any input would be appreciated. Thanks
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Jan 4, 2010 02:52
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It's probably a good idea to have the washer/dryer on their own circuit, and the garage to be on a separate circuit from the bedroom. Motors such as in a garage door opener or washer can draw lots of power starting up, so its not really a big surprise you're tripping things when they are used.
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Jan 4, 2010 03:11
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None of that stuff should be tripping the breaker, not if that's all that's on the circuit. Normally, the culprit is something like a space heater, coffee pot or microwave- anything designed to heat as quickly as possible will draw a ton of power. You wouldn't happen to have a space heater, would you? The dryer should be on it's own circuit. The washing machine shouldn't draw all that much power. And no, there's nothing illegal about having so many outlets on one circuit, but it's clearly poorly designed.
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Jan 4, 2010 03:12
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I don't have a space heater or anything that would be a power hog like that. Assuming then just poor design, can I just have them put in a bigger breaker?
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Jan 4, 2010 04:08
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bimmian posted:I don't have a space heater or anything that would be a power hog like that. Assuming then just poor design, can I just have them put in a bigger breaker? If what you listed really is all that's on the circuit, that's only 4 or 5A at most, and it shouldn't be overloaded or tripping. So, there is a chance the breaker could be going bad, in which case it would be perfectly fine to replace it with the same size breaker. I'd try this first, it's only $2 or so. If you find more stuff plugged in than you realize, the permanent solution is to add more breakers and split the circuit up.
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Jan 4, 2010 04:16
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My washer and dryer are 10A each, so it might come out to quite a bit more. The motor of the garage door opener might be seriously worn, which can also result in abnormally high amperages. Yeah, you should have things on separate circuits. Perhaps you can do some experimentation to find out what is causing the large current draw - LCDs, TVs, computers and the like do not generally use much power - it is very likely some other device is causing the problem. Start turning things on unti the breaker trips and maybe you can spot a pattern. Of course, your circuit breaker might just be defective...
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Jan 7, 2010 16:16
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EssOEss posted:Of course, your circuit breaker might just be defective... This. Residential breakers aren't really designed to operate a whole bunch. We've been using one in switching duty for a couple of weeks and we can now tap the case and have the handle move to "tripped" without interrupting the circuit. Putting an auto-ranging max-hold meter on it as it's tripping will show you what's going on, but those aren't the types of things non-electricians usually carry around.
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Jan 7, 2010 21:12
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I have an upstairs room for which the electricity (lights and three outlets) all seem to be running through a wire-nutted connection behind a plate by the door leading upstairs. This room was an attic at one point and I'm guessing this was the light switch. There's another connection behind this plate as well. Over the weekend I overloaded things up here and the connection shorted out but didn't trip the breaker (so I had one room with no lights and no breakers tripped). I redid the connection and now everything's working again, but would it be appropriate to put a light switch here? My overriding concern is, is it safe to have all this juice flowing through a light switch, if I have, say, a TV and an air conditioner, etc. running through it? Never had any problems with the connection before. Switch on, electricity on upstairs. Switch off, no juice.
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Jan 10, 2010 17:14
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Chasie posted:I have an upstairs room for which the electricity (lights and three outlets) all seem to be running through a wire-nutted connection behind a plate by the door leading upstairs. This room was an attic at one point and I'm guessing this was the light switch. There's another connection behind this plate as well. It's OK to have the receptacles hardwired and just the light on a switch, too. There's no code issues with putting receptacles and lights on the same circuit, but as you've noticed, it's a poor design. grover fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jan 10, 2010 |
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Jan 10, 2010 18:13
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grover posted:You can use a switch, but the switch must be rated for it. (EG, 15A if it's a 15A breaker or 20A for a 20A breaker.) Most of the cheap ones are only rated for 10A and will quickly burn out (fire hazard) if you try to power heavy loads through them. Air conditioners and other large motor loads may still be an issue. They have large in-rush currents on startup that can exceed 20A for a fraction of a second and while not enough to trip the breaker, light switches aren't really designed to handle. Thanks, grover. It's an older house in an area of 50s and 60s split levels, so it's full of plumbing and electrical curiosities.
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Jan 10, 2010 23:34
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Does anybody make a timer that can go on/off for a set number of minutes? For example 5 minutes on, 20 off, 5 on, 20 off ect. I have a woodburner in my basement with a fan to heat the house and I would love to have it go on/off like that when I have a fire going so save money this winter. I would plug the fan for the fireplace into the timer and then it would heat my house without running all the time. (which is loud, wastes electricity, and shortens the life of the fan) I have googled for an hour and all I have found is timers that you set by the hour for outdoor lights or for when you're not at home.
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Jan 11, 2010 16:33
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CharlieX posted:Does anybody make a timer that can go on/off for a set number of minutes? For example 5 minutes on, 20 off, 5 on, 20 off ect. I have a woodburner in my basement with a fan to heat the house and I would love to have it go on/off like that when I have a fire going so save money this winter. I would plug the fan for the fireplace into the timer and then it would heat my house without running all the time. (which is loud, wastes electricity, and shortens the life of the fan)  You can get thermostats that are 1:1 replacements for light switches and will actively cut the fan on/off. In your case, you can probably put an actual light switch in-line so you can turn the whole thing off when you don't have a fire going.
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Jan 11, 2010 23:04
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CharlieX posted:Does anybody make a timer that can go on/off for a set number of minutes? For example 5 minutes on, 20 off, 5 on, 20 off ect. I have a woodburner in my basement with a fan to heat the house and I would love to have it go on/off like that when I have a fire going so save money this winter. I would plug the fan for the fireplace into the timer and then it would heat my house without running all the time. (which is loud, wastes electricity, and shortens the life of the fan) I have a 24-hour timer with 5-minute increments on it. It's a plant-light timer by Intermatic, TN111C; I think I found it at Home Depot on clearance. You could get a TN811C instead; that way you wouldn't have to get another package of trippers. fake edit: hey should have hit reply a few hours ago. A thermostat is a great idea, too, even if it's not the question you asked.
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Jan 12, 2010 05:31
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CharlieX posted:Does anybody make a timer that can go on/off for a set number of minutes? For example 5 minutes on, 20 off, 5 on, 20 off ect. I have a woodburner in my basement with a fan to heat the house and I would love to have it go on/off like that when I have a fire going so save money this winter. I would plug the fan for the fireplace into the timer and then it would heat my house without running all the time. (which is loud, wastes electricity, and shortens the life of the fan) poo poo, my $2 Ikea lamp timer will do this. But, if the fan is a part of the stove, be careful. I know on mine I need to leave the fan running whenever the fire is burning, otherwise, the fan internals can cook themselves.
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Jan 13, 2010 01:58
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I have a room right above my circuit breaker with ungrounded outlets. I want to convert them to grounded outlets so I can make that room an office. Can I just drop in new 3-prong outlets and run a ground wire down to the breaker box and ground it into the grounding bar, and use the existing live/neutral connections from the old wiring?
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Jan 17, 2010 23:18
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Staggeringly basic electrical questions: I'm moving into a 1954 construction house. The house has GFCI outlets in the bathroom and the kitchen, but 2-prong everywhere else. Some quick questions: Is upgrading to properly grounded 3-prong something I can do myself? Would swapping everything out to GFCI be an acceptable safety substitute? The house only has 3-wire 220v/100amp coming in at the panel, so I'm probably going to have a professional electrician coming in to upgrade anyway. I'll hopefully be posting a picture of all the horrid paneling and shag carpet for a massive DIY thread soon. 
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Jan 20, 2010 20:59
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Smiling Jack posted:Staggeringly basic electrical questions: Yeah you should be able to, unless you're living somewhere where local building codes prohibit you from doing your own work. GFCIs can be swapped on a per-circuit basis to compensate in some ways for short protection. Basically, you put it in place of the first outlet on each circuit, then daisy chain the rest of that circuit off of the protected connections on that GFCI. While GFCI receptacles do have the grounding prongs on their faces, they still will not offer grounding protection in this instance, they merely interrupt the circuit if a short occurs. Also, things that need dedicated ground prongs to function properly like surge protectors still won't work right in the event of a surge. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jan 21, 2010 |
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Jan 20, 2010 21:16
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Smiling Jack posted:Is upgrading to properly grounded 3-prong something I can do myself? Would swapping everything out to GFCI be an acceptable safety substitute? Yes, depending on the quality of the wiring and local code, you may have to pull entire new circuits instead of just grounds. I'm not sure you understand how GFCI works. It still requires a ground line, it just cuts current if something shorts to ground. Having a floating ground in there (besides being against code) will negate the entire functionality of the GFCI outlet.
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Jan 20, 2010 21:17
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thelightguy posted:Yes, depending on the quality of the wiring and local code, you may have to pull entire new circuits instead of just grounds. Yeah, I was advised by an aquaintance that I could just "add in those GCI or whatever" outlets. It didn't make much sense, but I thought I'd check. Too good to be true. Good thing I budgeted for an electrical upgrade. The GCFI outlets in the bathroom and kitchen were tested during the home inspection and do work properly, but the rest of the rooms are still 2-prong.
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Jan 20, 2010 21:22
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Smiling Jack posted:Yeah, I was advised by an aquaintance that I could just "add in those GCI or whatever" outlets. It didn't make much sense, but I thought I'd check. Too good to be true. Are you sure? Did you use a circuit tester and test for a circuit between the smaller prong and the ground?
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Jan 20, 2010 21:29
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kid sinister posted:Are you sure? Did you use a circuit tester and test for a circuit between the smaller prong and the ground? The home inspector did, and I specifically asked if it was grounded properly. One of the outlets was wired backwards  , but the others were grounded. Got that one outlet fixed before closing. The rest of the house is a mix of non-grounded 3-prong and 2-prong outlets.I'm going to post a DIY/"hired a professional" list of fixes megathread after I close. Smiling Jack fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jan 20, 2010 |
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Jan 20, 2010 21:33
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Smiling Jack posted:The home inspector did, and I specifically asked if it was grounded properly. Hmm, that's strange, it's possible your outlets might already be grounded... Up for a test? Get another circuit tester and take the faceplate off a 2-prong outlet. Test for a circuit between the short prong and the metal outlet box. You might want to cut around the faceplate with a utility knife first, people in the old days just LOVED to paint over outlets. As a result, most 1954 faceplates have about 5 layers of paint on them, effectively gluing them to the wall. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jan 20, 2010 |
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Jan 20, 2010 21:37
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kid sinister posted:Hmm, that's strange, it's possible your outlets might already be grounded... They're not. He tested the 3-prong outlets by the front door and in the rest of the kitchen, and they aren't grounded. It was very odd, I get the feeling that a friend or family member did some quick wiring to install the fancy-pants outlets near the kitchen sink and bathroom after grandma started getting a little clumsy. Or something. The home inspector had a real "what the hell" moment when he realized that the three-prongs weren't grounded, after testing the GCFIs- he actually went back to his car to double-check with a new circuit tester. The miswired GCFI was another WTF? Apparently whoever wired it in reversed things.
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Jan 20, 2010 21:41
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thelightguy posted:I'm not sure you understand how GFCI works. It still requires a ground line, it just cuts current if something shorts to ground. Having a floating ground in there (besides being against code) will negate the entire functionality of the GFCI outlet. A GFCI trips if the current in the neutral line doesn't match the hot, and doesn't require a ground connection to perform correctly. I'm pretty sure code permits GFCI breakers on ungrounded circuits if you mark them as such. That doesn't solve the problem of no equipment ground, though. You'll feel better and have happier computers if you just get it all fixed up properly.
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Jan 20, 2010 21:55
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Smiling Jack posted:Yeah, I was advised by an aquaintance that I could just "add in those GCI or whatever" outlets. It didn't make much sense, but I thought I'd check. Too good to be true. GFCI looks at the hot wire and looks at the neutral and makes sure the amount of current going in is equal to what's coming out. If there's an electrical fault, or someone is getting shocked, some of that current will be going in, but not coming out. If it sees more than 5ma (below the treshold for injury), it will immediately trip and kill power. A single GFCI outlet can protect any number of downstream outlets if properly installed, which you can replace safely and legally with cheap normal 3-prong receptacles- they're protected just the same as if you'd plugged them into the front of the GFCI. You must label them as "GFCI Protected" and "Ungrounded"; stickers come with most GFCI breakers. The better solution is to replace the wire with grounded wire, though. Is this practical?
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Jan 21, 2010 00:14
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grover posted:Speaking of which, plug adapters are unsafe and illegal and nobody should ever use them and I don't know how people can still legally sell them, so if you have any, stop using them! I thought the issue was that they're not illegal per se, just against code... The only reason they can be legally sold is because UL signed off on them?
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Jan 21, 2010 00:29
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I am off grid and all my power comes from solar. I have a chest style fridge and freezer called, "Sundanzers" which are 24 volt DC. They are currently setup in my powerhouse because that's all I had built at the time. As we're almost done with a temporary dining/kitchen facility about 100 feet away, I want to move the fridge and freezer to it and thus need to rewire them (they're wired direct into the box my charge controller and inverter sit on). My questions are: 1. Is DC wire any different than AC wire?What exactly should I get? Gauge, type. etc. 2. Is it ok to run DC 100 feet? 3. What questions am I not asking because I've never wired DC before? Thank you!
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Jan 22, 2010 21:34
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Socratic Moron posted:I am off grid and all my power comes from solar. I have a chest style fridge and freezer called, "Sundanzers" which are 24 volt DC. They are currently setup in my powerhouse because that's all I had built at the time. As we're almost done with a temporary dining/kitchen facility about 100 feet away, I want to move the fridge and freezer to it and thus need to rewire them (they're wired direct into the box my charge controller and inverter sit on). My questions are:
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Jan 22, 2010 21:45
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I installed a florescent light fixture outside at my garage a little while ago. Most times it turns on just fine. However sometimes it has difficultly... you flip the switch and nothing happens... come back a few minutes later and it turns on fine. This seems to only happen at night time when the temperature drops. Is this normal or is the ballast bad or something? It is a used fixture. The 2 Bulbs, T8 I believe (they are a U shape) are brand new.
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Jan 23, 2010 03:35
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dv6speed posted:I installed a florescent light fixture outside at my garage a little while ago. Most times it turns on just fine. Instant-start vs rapid-start ballast. You probably want a rapid-start if that's not what you have. Instant-start uses a massive voltage spike to start the lamp, while rapid-start uses a heating coil to preheat the electrodes. Instant-start usually aren't rated to actually start a lamp below 40-50 F or so.
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Jan 23, 2010 03:38
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The fixture was salvaged from a retail store by an electrician friend of mine who happened to be doing work there installing a different lighting system.
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Jan 23, 2010 03:40
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I'm carefully reading through every post here and have learned a LOT. I'm only on page six so please forgive me if these questions are answered later in the thread, but I'm itching to know now  When MUST you use a GFCI? When do you not HAVE to but it's a good idea? How do you tell which gauge wire to run and what amp breaker to use? I know distance is one thing, but is what you're going to be operating the other? What happens if you put a 15 amp breaker on a 20 amp line? Or a 30 amp breaker on a 15 amp line? What happens if you run a 20 amp line and 20 amp breaker to a 15 amp switch? quote:Ok, first things first: conduit underground. It's against code to put romex in conduit underground. Romex cannot be used in wet locations, and that's what underground counts as (even in conduit). So you're going to be using UF (underground feeder) wire anyway, which is rated for direct burial. Can I put UF in conduit underground just to protect against shovels? I also happen to live in the wettest place on earth What's the difference between 12/2 and 12/4? What is the 2/4 and why would I use the 4? Thank you!
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Jan 24, 2010 20:20
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Socratic Moron posted:I'm carefully reading through every post here and have learned a LOT. I'm only on page six so please forgive me if these questions are answered later in the thread, but I'm itching to know now New code: AFCI breakers are required pretty much everywhere else, especially bedrooms. quote:How do you tell which gauge wire to run and what amp breaker to use? I know distance is one thing, but is what you're going to be operating the other? quote:What happens if you put a 15 amp breaker on a 20 amp line? Or a 30 amp breaker on a 15 amp line? quote:What happens if you run a 20 amp line and 20 amp breaker to a 15 amp switch? quote:Can I put UF in conduit underground just to protect against shovels? I also happen to live in the wettest place on earth quote:What's the difference between 12/2 and 12/4? What is the 2/4 and why would I use the 4? 12/3 = #12 black wire, #12 white wire, #12 bare copper, #12 red wire This is used in 3-way light switches, 240V circuits, multiwire circuits, ceiling fans- basically anywhere you'd need to run two "hots". Unfortunately, Hawaii County's building codes are very out of date (2001 NEC and 1991 UBC). Fortunately, modern codes have become more stringent, so if you build to the newest code, you're almost certainly going to pass inspection. And you have more leeway to ignore things like AFCIs because they're not legally required in your area. (Most else you'll run into is unchanged since 2001.) You'd be well served to read over the local codes and talk to your inspectors if you have any questions. If you haven't bought it already, I highly recommend picking up a copy of International Residential Code (IRC). It covers residential electrical, plumbing, etc, and would be an invaluable resource for you. You can probably get a used copy of IRC 2003 or 2006 for dirt cheap on ebay since everyone else has moved on to 2009.
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Jan 24, 2010 21:33
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