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Supreme Allah posted:Possibly Haku in the eighties? I know fat guys with big hair in general have been treated as having hard heads since Andre, but I think I remember a spot during Andre and Heenan's fued where he headbutt Haku and he got the worst of it. Headbutting the JYD, or Koko B. Ware, or Hacksaw Jim Duggan was a waste of time, and none of them were billed as Samoan.
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Jan 26, 2010 21:51
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Wazzu posted:Yes it is. If your mind in way remembers the existence of the game, you have lost. Then bullshit happens. Wrong, you're immune if someone outright says THE GAME. It's like holding the OK sign in someone's face and saying I GET TO PUNCH YOU NOW 
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Jan 26, 2010 22:43
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When was the last time we had high profile face vs face and heel vs heel matches on the same PPV?
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Jan 27, 2010 00:30
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reality_groove posted:When was the last time we had high profile face vs face and heel vs heel matches on the same PPV? SS 09 had Cena vs Michaels vs HHH on the RAW side and Smackdown has Taker vs Show vs Jericho. Thats heel and faces. Unless you just mean only straight up 1 on 1 matches? Breaking Point had Dreamer vs Christian for the ECW championship, both faces while Jerishow fought Legacy for the tag titles, both heel. oldpainless fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Jan 27, 2010 |
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Jan 27, 2010 00:38
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Undertaker's been face for a long time now. He was face the face vs Big Show and Jericho. The Dreamer vs. Christian and Jerishow vs. Legacy match was actually Night of Champions 2009.
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Jan 27, 2010 03:20
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PsiKoTicK posted:What about the "color" game? Someone burps, last person to say a color has to make a sex noise. I think we had sex noises or it was you had to say "Penis" or "Vagina" as loud as possible. :V
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Jan 27, 2010 07:54
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Good Listener posted:I think we had sex noises or it was you had to say "Penis" or "Vagina" as loud as possible. :V My school had everyone who got caught having to say "Penis" louder than the last person who said it until a teacher came over to shut you up. God, High School was so retarded.
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Jan 27, 2010 08:08
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We played grabass with people of the opposite sex until we got a visit from the Sexual Harassment Panda.
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Jan 27, 2010 08:27
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Good Listener posted:I think we had sex noises or it was you had to say "Penis" or "Vagina" as loud as possible. :V The best one we ever had was like 20 of us, and the guy who lost was eating a sandwich or something, and said "Hey, my mouth was full!" and we all agreed it counted as a sex noise. So yes, High School was full on retarded. To get on track with the wrestling questions: If I like WWE for the Attitude Era, and WCW for the nWo (original nWo, not the bullshit later), and I can't stand TNA's bullshit, is there ANY reason to watch something like ROH? I watched a DVD once and the wrestling was good, but... nothing made me want to care (I don't really get the whole "this guy fake fights better than that guy" but I like the story). I am bored a lot, and need something to watch, I'm caught up on Bones, House, all 3 CSIs, both NCIS's, Criminal Minds, Psych, White Collar, In Plain Site, Burn Notice... I watch Raw (usually), miss ECW due to pool league on Tuesday nights, and miss Smackdown cuz I forget it's on, even though I have MyNetworkTV in HD... I catch what happens through the threads here really, and I think the CM Punk story right now is awesome... If you can think of some good storyline based wrestling, or something else (that isn't wrestling), I'm interested - or give me a reason to watch ROH that isn't "the physical wrestling is good."
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Jan 27, 2010 08:32
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Captain Charisma posted:Wrong, you're immune if someone outright says THE GAME. It's like holding the OK sign in someone's face and saying I GET TO PUNCH YOU NOW The way I learned it it's not even referred to as The Game. Normally people would just announce "I lost!" and everyone else would subsequently lose. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. Anywho, I'm reading The Death of WCW and it's great. But did Sting seriously NOT WRESTLE AT ALL until his Starrcade match with Hogan?
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Jan 27, 2010 08:41
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CM Junk posted:The way I learned it it's not even referred to as The Game. Normally people would just announce "I lost!" and everyone else would subsequently lose. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. Nope. I don't even think he did house shows. He did show up a couple times and beat people down.
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Jan 27, 2010 08:43
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Smear the Queer.  I'm reading up on the WCW thread. Were they ever really considered competition? I mean, my god man.
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Jan 27, 2010 08:44
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PsiKoTicK posted:The best one we ever had was like 20 of us, and the guy who lost was eating a sandwich or something, and said "Hey, my mouth was full!" and we all agreed it counted as a sex noise. I personally am a fan of the "jimmy loves lacey" plotline, but the matches aren't that great. But if you want more plot in your match, then ROH isn't for you. Maybe try PWG or chikara if you're looking for some other alternative.
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Jan 27, 2010 08:46
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^^^^Motherfucker, that was not up when I posted when I posted, but I feel like it proves my point anyway.PsiKoTicK posted:or give me a reason to watch ROH that isn't "the physical wrestling is good." This is why ROH needs storyline specific DVDs. They have plenty of great storylines (the ballad of Jimmy and Lacey, Dragon v. Morishima, Punk v. Raven, ROH v. CZW), but they don't always progress in every single show, or sometimes they last for over a year because of guys getting injured or Gabe being unable to stop pushing BJ Whitmer. It's a common WH2k opinion that WWE needs these kind of anthologies, but I would argue that ROH could benefit from them way more.
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Jan 27, 2010 08:48
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Wazzu posted:I personally am a fan of the "jimmy loves lacey" plotline, but the matches aren't that great. But if you want more plot in your match, then ROH isn't for you. Maybe try PWG or chikara if you're looking for some other alternative. ROH is more storyline driven than PWG due to running more shows. Now with the TV show there are probably more storylines than CHIKARA as well.
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Jan 27, 2010 08:53
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MassRayPer posted:ROH is more storyline driven than PWG due to running more shows. Now with the TV show there are probably more storylines than CHIKARA as well. Probably more than PWG, but I think the quality, and effect on matches is greater in chikara. They also have quite good "best of" yearly DVDs, which normally follow their best plotlines, while the excellent commentary fills in the gaps.
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Jan 27, 2010 08:59
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The A-Team Van posted:Smear the Queer. That's the crazy thing about it. A lot of the book's writing is a bit too subjective for it to really be a great historical recollection, but it's phenomenal that it was doing the numbers it was for such a mediocre product.
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Jan 27, 2010 09:00
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CM Junk posted:That's the crazy thing about it. A lot of the book's writing is a bit too subjective for it to really be a great historical recollection, but it's phenomenal that it was doing the numbers it was for such a mediocre product. Once WCW started taking guys from the WWE they basically had to rebuild their main event card from the ground up. Look where all the guys who defined the attitude era were up to that point- Shawn Michaels was popular but a midcarder, Triple H was either in WCW or his early WWF character was some douchy rich guy from connecticut, Steve Austin was in WCW, Rock was either not around or one of the goons in Nation of Domination, Mick Foley was in WCW/ECW as Cactus Jack. Imagine if Triple H, Michaels, Batista, Orton, and Mysterio suddenly left the WWE. Wouldn't it take you some convincing to think of Miz or MVP or Evan Bourne as in the same league as them all of a sudden? I realize there's a lot of hyperbole in there and the timeline doesn't line up that perfectly, but I think it's a little too easy to look back at the monday night wars from this position where WWE actually has more main event materialaa than they know what to do with and talk about how it's amazing WCW managed to win some of the wars at all.
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Jan 27, 2010 09:33
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LightsGameraAction posted:I realize there's a lot of hyperbole in there and the timeline doesn't line up that perfectly, but I think it's a little too easy to look back at the monday night wars from this position where WWE actually has more main event materialaa than they know what to do with and talk about how it's amazing WCW managed to win some of the wars at all. Except that WCW started a downward spiral while they had WWE BEATEN. Literally, they had everything won. WWE was fighting back, barely. By taking WCW midcarders (Austin, Foley) and their own midcarders (HHH in particular... Hunter Hearst Helmsley, though NOBODY calls him anything but "Hunter" and I doubt most remember why)... WWE let guys go out, and be themselves - the writers helped them make a promo, and let their own personality come through, though obviously expanded to the Nth degree. WCW took top stars, such as Hogan, Hall and Nash, even Luger... and after turning the world upside down with the nWo, didn't do ANYTHING else but run it into the ground. Again, and again, and again. DDP should've been bigger than The Rock, but he was basically shown to be a midcarder joke, instead of a main event star. The potential for WCW and Ted Turner to be the ones running everything was there in 97 and 98. By the end of 99, WCW was already dead. WWE was bigger, and continued growing, until the competition was killed by Vince owning everything (WWE, ECW, WCW) - there was NOTHING left on a national level he didn't own.
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Jan 27, 2010 09:42
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PsiKoTicK posted:Except that WCW started a downward spiral while they had WWE BEATEN. Literally, they had everything won. WWE was fighting back, barely. By taking WCW midcarders (Austin, Foley) and their own midcarders (HHH in particular... Hunter Hearst Helmsley, though NOBODY calls him anything but "Hunter" and I doubt most remember why)... WWE let guys go out, and be themselves - the writers helped them make a promo, and let their own personality come through, though obviously expanded to the Nth degree. It just so happened that by the time WWE had developed those characters into marketable, household names, WCW hadn't done gently caress-all to the likewise. They were still running off Hogan and co.'s momentum and didn't even try building up a second generation of superstars.
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Jan 27, 2010 09:55
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PsiKoTicK posted:I am bored a lot, and need something to watch, I'm caught up on Bones, House, all 3 CSIs, both NCIS's, Criminal Minds, Psych, White Collar, In Plain Site, Burn Notice... I watch Raw (usually), miss ECW due to pool league on Tuesday nights, and miss Smackdown cuz I forget it's on, even though I have MyNetworkTV in HD... I catch what happens through the threads here really, and I think the CM Punk story right now is awesome... To nerd out for a minute: in the first place, all good wrestling is "storyline-based" wrestling, because two talented wrestlers in the ring with one another are essentially telling a story. People that say they like ROH because "the physical wrestling is good" probably mean that they like good storytelling delivered in the ring on a regular basis, which the WWE doesn't (and really doesn't have to) deliver on the same up-and-down-a-card level. Unless, of course, by "physical wrestling" the person is all "RAHH MOVES MOVES MOVES RAAAH," in which case, why are you listening to anything Teddy Hart says? So what you are looking for is feud-based wrestling. Which ROH has, though not as extensively (or elaborately) as the bigger promotions. For one source of these shows, you can go to MRP's site: http://www.ultimatepokerbankroll.com/uncategorized/roh-feud-guide That has a fairly decent list of some of the older feuds, though at the moment it leaves out the one I would recommend: RoH vs. CZW (since you seem to like invasion-type stuff). It is basically a storyline that pits the "Wrestler's Wrestlers" of Ring of Honor against the "Garbage Wrestlers" of CZW. So there is a lot of crazy brawling and so forth. It progressed over about 10 or so shows, though only half of those are really that great. You can look at the cards and see if there's anything you would like. But it starts with Hell Freezes Over, and ends at DBD IV with the CAGE OF DEATH. The best ones in between (for this feud) are probably 4th Anniversary Show, the 100th Show, and Ring of Homicide (though my memory is sort of hazy, I could be wrong). Hell Freezes Over is probably skippable, unless you really, really want to see the whole thing begin (it starts at the end of the show, after a very technical World Title match that a lot of people didn't care much for).
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Jan 27, 2010 09:59
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PsiKoTicK posted:WCW took top stars, such as Hogan, Hall and Nash, even Luger... and after turning the world upside down with the nWo, didn't do ANYTHING else but run it into the ground. Again, and again, and again. DDP should've been bigger than The Rock, but he was basically shown to be a midcarder joke, instead of a main event star. Did WCW not push DDP as much because he was so old, and they didn't want to risk it on a short-term investment?
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Jan 27, 2010 10:50
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Wazzu posted:Did WCW not push DDP as much because he was so old, and they didn't want to risk it on a short-term investment? Yeah, because if there was anything WCW didn't love doing, it's pushing old people.
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Jan 27, 2010 10:52
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Wazzu posted:Did WCW not push DDP as much because he was so old, and they didn't want to risk it on a short-term investment? If you think someone being old made it problematic for WCW to push them, you did not watch much WCW.
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Jan 27, 2010 10:52
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The A-Team Van posted:Smear the Queer. CM Junk posted:it's phenomenal that it was doing the numbers it was for such a mediocre product. PsiKoTicK posted:Except that WCW started a downward spiral while they had WWE BEATEN. AOL execs wanted scripts for Nitro months in advance. I'm loving tired as hell of people saying WCW never got anything right. They got TONS right. The fact that they managed to get anybody over at all by themselves is a goddamn miracle in some ways, sure, and they fell harder than any company ever has in wrestling, but give them their credit. It's due. Saying they never got anything right minimizes their abysmal loving failure. Wazzu posted:Did WCW not push DDP as much because he was so old, and they didn't want to risk it on a short-term investment?
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Jan 27, 2010 12:01
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LividLiquid posted:While I will never argue that their creative department dropped the poo poo out of that ball, you also have to remember that the company found themselves in the position of being told what to do by an internet company who wanted nothing to do with wrestling. False. WCW started making bad decisions and losing money before the merger. If they had been doing well AOL wouldn't have been concerned. quote:Explain to me how WCW didn't push DDP. I'm serious. I'm completely serious. According to DDP, Bischoff didn't want to look like he was giving him a push just because they were friends. However, people are crazy and think, aside from being on of the few main event guys in a company that almost never elevated talent, he didn't get a push. PsiKoTicK posted:DDP should've been bigger than The Rock, but he was basically shown to be a midcarder joke, instead of a main event star. Hey, everybody, welcome Mr. Page to the board! This is the same bullshit claim DDP makes all the time. It's one thing to be a mark for yourself, it's another to think DDP could have been bigger than The Rock. Foley, maybe, but Rock was an overall combo of talent, looks, charisma, and promo ability that may never be seen again. DDP was an old guy with charisma who had age and experience limitations as a worker and couldn't call it in the ring. As noted above, he was a main eventer in WCW. I'm not even the biggest Rock fan in the world, but if you can't look at a match and a promo of each in their peaks and realize why Rocky became one of the biggest stars in the business then you don't understand wrestling or entertainment in general. quote:The potential for WCW and Ted Turner to be the ones running everything was there in 97 and 98. Ted Turner didn't run WCW. He owned it, he gave them a checkbook, and he occasionally asked why it wasn't working. WeaselWeaz fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Jan 27, 2010 |
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Jan 27, 2010 13:59
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LividLiquid posted:
The way I always saw it was that these guys did great work despite being in WCW. It's like saying The Rock was great in The Tooth Fairy; does that make it a good movie? By all accounts, didn't most of these guys (excluding DDP and Goldberg maybe) feel miserable working there? Yes, they had consistently good matches week-to-week, but there was so much working against WCW that it didn't make up for it.
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Jan 27, 2010 14:51
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LividLiquid posted:If you think Nitros with Eddy Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Rey Misterio, Jr. (as he was then known), Chris Jericho, Juventud Guerrera, Psychosis, Raven, DDP, Goldberg, Bret Hart, Curt Hennig and their contemporaries putting on four star matches every single week equates to a mediocre product, I'm fairly certain you should just be branded a WWE fanboy whose opinion on things beyond the fed don't count. I think people often forget that Bischoff did go out and sign up basically all the talent available to him and the WCW undercard was stocked with an unbelievable array of wrestlers. It's easy to forget, though, because during those matches the announcers were always talking about the nWo / Goldberg and hardly furthering undercard storylines.
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Jan 27, 2010 15:06
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LividLiquid posted:That's hardly fair. It's like watching HHH's year-long squash of doom on RAW and thinking, "Wow. People thought this company was good once?!" Yes, they did terrible poo poo for a couple of years, but they were pretty fantastic for almost half-a-decade. It's not a four star match if it gets 5-10 minutes, happens a million times in a row because the company will not elevate anyone who didn't get over in WWF/isn't Bischoff's buddy, and gets talked over by the announcers who act like the only thing going on is the NWO. WCW just did not care what happened on its midcard.
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Jan 27, 2010 18:23
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:WCW just did not care what happened on its midcard. False. WCW hired Americans from Japan and luchadores because they wanted good matches too. The idea was put the big stars in the main event because they would draw, but since their matches would be bad you put great matches in the undercard. It was a logic that successful before the promotion started going downhill. Now, if you want to say WCW didn't care about the booking in its midcard that would be correct.
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Jan 28, 2010 01:46
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WeaselWeaz posted:False. WCW hired Americans from Japan and luchadores because they wanted good matches too. The idea was put the big stars in the main event because they would draw, but since their matches would be bad you put great matches in the undercard. It was a logic that successful before the promotion started going downhill. I agree with this. I also think that - at the beginning - Eric Bichoff had the best of intentions. They were going to ride the big names in the main event to get the great wrestlers they snatched up from all over some exposure, so they could eventually rise and take the main event. The road to hell and all that.
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Jan 28, 2010 02:22
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Is the Legacy's music (A New Day) a variation of the New Age Outlaws' music?
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Jan 28, 2010 06:20
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you can kinda hear that at first but thats it.
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Jan 28, 2010 06:35
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Is the Legacy's music (A New Day) a variation of the New Age Outlaws' music? Speaking of Legacy's music. The new WWE CD just landed on the digital shelves of Amazon if anybody besides me cares. http://www.amazon.com/WWE-Music-New-Amazon-Exclusive/dp/B0035DH9GC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1264659765&sr=8-2
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Jan 28, 2010 07:27
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How much of a hand did WWE have in the booking of the last episode of Nitro? It's always so jarring when I watch it to hear Tony Schiavone talking about "Mr. McMahon" all night.
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Jan 28, 2010 07:33
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LividLiquid posted:If you think Nitros with Eddy Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Rey Misterio, Jr. (as he was then known), Chris Jericho, Juventud Guerrera, Psychosis, Raven, DDP, Goldberg, Bret Hart, Curt Hennig and their contemporaries putting on four star matches every single week equates to a mediocre product, I'm fairly certain you should just be branded a WWE fanboy whose opinion on things beyond the fed don't count. Please don't play the fanboy card because nobody ever comes out looking good after that. Just understand that most of the historical perspective I have regarding WCW is what I've read on the board and in The Death of WCW in addition to some of the old videos I've seen. The way I see it, it's mind-boggling that the main event, which is supposed to be drawing tickets, merchandise, and PPV buys (which, I recognize, wasn't even the case for a while as the WCW name alone usually sold out arenas), in addition to satiating the paying fans and viewers, was so often stale and poorly worked even during the company's hottest periods. If nothing else, a red-hot midcard would normally tire fans out by the main event, especially on three-hour shows.
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Jan 28, 2010 07:41
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TL posted:How much of a hand did WWE have in the booking of the last episode of Nitro? It's always so jarring when I watch it to hear Tony Schiavone talking about "Mr. McMahon" all night. They had final approval of everything, but the "NIGHT OF CHAMPIONS" theme and most of the matches were set up by Bischoff before Vince bought WCW.
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Jan 28, 2010 08:09
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And the idea that EVERY WEEK WCW was putting on Four Star matches, especially with some of the talent named is insane. (Curt Hennig had maybe, one great match in WCW because he did not give half a poo poo about trying and said so to many people.) Yes, we can go back and find a lot of great matches. But you know what Nitro also had? Tons of matches with Ernest Miller, Jerry Flynn, The British Bulldog, Glacier, Roadblock, Mongo, Buff Bagwell, Bryan Adams, Rick Steiner, that loving sucked. You also had tons of talking, tons of run ins, tons of main guys making the good workers look like jokes, and more getting in the way. Sometimes the first hour of Nitro would barely have wrestling because it was so dominated by angles and nuttiness to try and lure in fans before Raw started.
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Jan 28, 2010 08:14
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MassRayPer posted:And the idea that EVERY WEEK WCW was putting on Four Star matches, especially with some of the talent named is insane. (Curt Hennig had maybe, one great match in WCW because he did not give half a poo poo about trying and said so to many people.) But nostalgia 
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Last Call posted:Speaking of Legacy's music. The new WWE CD just landed on the digital shelves of Amazon if anybody besides me cares. Thanks for the reminder because today only you can get the whole album for $4.
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