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freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

How much taxes do Americans actually pay? Compared to other first world nations? Because the level of bitching is astronomical.

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JGTheSpy
Jul 31, 2002
Excuse me, but if I could have a moment of your time, I'd like to explain why you're not actually enjoying that game that you're enjoying. You see, I am in fact an expert. At games. I know, it's impressive.

freebooter posted:

How much taxes do Americans actually pay? Compared to other first world nations? Because the level of bitching is astronomical.


I pay about 40% if you include state taxes.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

freebooter posted:

How much taxes do Americans actually pay? Compared to other first world nations? Because the level of bitching is astronomical.

Much less, usually, especially for sales taxes.

evilbastard
Mar 6, 2003

Hair Elf

quote:

How much taxes do Americans actually pay? Compared to other first world nations? Because the level of bitching is astronomical.



(Source, 2008 has incomplete data)

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

But is it actually scaled according to income? Or is it flat rate for everybody?

I'm Australian and I pay about 12 -15%, but I earn less than 30 grand a year. I (and maybe all Australians, dunno about high incomer earners) also get a significant amount back from what they took off me, at the end of the financial year.

evilbastard
Mar 6, 2003

Hair Elf

freebooter posted:

But is it actually scaled according to income? Or is it flat rate for everybody?

I'm Australian and I pay about 12 -15%, but I earn less than 30 grand a year. I (and maybe all Australians, dunno about high incomer earners) also get a significant amount back from what they took off me, at the end of the financial year.

It's average tax burden as a percentage. For example, you think your tax burden is 12-15%, but there's also the 10% GST in there as well, as well as excise taxes on Tobacco, Petrol and Alcohol. Therefore your tax burden even at such a low income rate is still going to be closer to 17-22%. For firmer numbers, in my case, I paid 22.3% tax last year, and then if you figure the 10% GST on my non-mortgage non-fresh food income that raises it to a fraction under 30%. Seeing how I'm earning almost dead on the the average wage for an Australian, and I didn't have to pay other taxes like Stamp Duty or Capital Gains tax last year you can see how the burden works out.

Australia has it much easier, as we have a national income tax, no state income tax and GST included in the price of every item, so rather then getting obviously hit up on every transaction, we get one lump of pain mid-year and then we forget about it. Which is why last election public opinion polls said Australians wanted higher taxes for more services, and why we have nowhere near the widespread anti-tax loon contingent as what you see here, thus bringing my post back on topic.

the tingler
Jul 15, 2009
got this one today, my response at the bottom.

quote:

GRRRRRRRRRR...! I'M MAD AND YOU SHOULD BE TOO!

Your U.S. House & Senate have voted themselves $4,700

and $5,300 raises.



1. They voted to not give you a S.S. cost of living raise in2010 and 2011.






2. Your Medicare premiums will go up $285.60 for the 2-yearsand

you will not get the 3% COLA: $660/yr.

Your total 2-yr for husband and wife

loss and cost is -$1,600 or -$3,200





3. Over 2-yrs The House & Senate each get

$10,000 raises



4. Do you feel SCREWED?








5. WILL your cost of drugs - doctor fees - local taxes - food,

etc., increase? You better believe they will!









6. Do you really think that Nancy, Harry, Chris,

Charlie, Barnie, et al, care about you?

Medicare premiums are not going up $285.60 and in many cases not at all.
http://questions.medicare.gov/cgi-bin/medicare.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2260

Congress voted in March NOT to give themselves a pay increase. Public Law 111-8, the Omnibus Appropriation Act, was signed March 11 and has a specific pay freeze provision.
http://factcheck.org//2009/09/a-zero-pay-raise-for-congress-too/

Yes, there will not be a COLA increase for those receiving Social Security, but not because of an act of Congress. The COLA is tied to the Consumer Price Index for Urban Wage Earners and Clerical Workers (CPI-W) and has been for the last 35 years. For the first time in those 35 years, the cost of living has gone down, not up.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/social-security-cola/

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire
Were there pictures in that email or did they really space it out that much?

the tingler
Jul 15, 2009
horrible horrible "3D" gifs

the tingler fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Mar 15, 2010

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!
Got a new one from my step-dad today:

quote:

Here is another one of those uneducated, radical, right-wing extremists that doesn't like Obama just because he is black ---- well, may be that's not the only reason........

Sounds like she be pretty dern dangerous with all dem crazy idears about freedom and stuff. I bet she's gonna get 'erself a gun and move up to Idaho an join-up with dem other unedacated radical folk!

quote:

And with that, it is my great pleasure to introduce you to Anne Wortham, an associate professor of sociology at Illinois State University and continuing visiting scholar at Stanford University 's Hoover Institution.
Earlier this week, someone sent over the following introduction of her, and the text of one of her speeches on the election of President Obama. It is, in my view, a much-needed breath of fresh air on the topic of racial identity. Here’s the intro and the article…

Anne Wortham is a member of the American Sociological Association and the American Philosophical Association.
She has been a John M. Olin Foundation Faculty Fellow, and honored as a Distinguished Alumni of the Year by the Nation al Association for Equal Opportunity in Higher Education.
In fall 1988 she was one of a select group of intellectuals who were featured in Bill Moyer's television series, "A World of Ideas." The transcript of her conversation with Moyers has been published in his book, A World of Ideas.
Dr. Wortham is author of "The Other Side of Racism: A Philosophical Study of Black Race Consciousness" which analyzes how race consciousness is transformed into political strategies and policy issues.
She has published numerous articles on the implications of individual rights for civil rights policy, and is currently writing a book on theories of social and cultural marginality.
Recently, she has published articles on the significance of multiculturalism and Afrocentricism in education, the politics of victimization and the social and political impact of political correctness. Shortly after an interview in 2004, she was awarded tenure.
The following article by her is something…
Fellow Americans,
Please know: I am Black; I grew up in the segregated South. I did not vote for Barack Obama; I wrote in Ron Paul's name as my choice for president. Most importantly, I am not race conscious. I do not require a Black president to know that I am a person of worth, and that life is worth living. I do not require a Black president to love the ideal of America.
I cannot join you in your celebration. I feel no elation. There is no smile on my face. I am not jumping with joy. There are no tears of triumph in my eyes. For such emotions and behavior to come from me, I would have to deny all that I know about the requirements of human flourishing and survival - all that I know about the history of the United States of America, all that I know about American race relations, and all that I know about Barack Obama as a politician. I would have to deny the nature of the "change" that Obama asserts has come to America.
Most importantly, I would have to abnegate my certain understanding that you have chosen to sprint down the road to serfdom that we have been on for over a century. I would have to pretend that individual liberty has no value for the success of a human life. I would have to evade your rejection of the slender reed of capitalism on which your success and mine depend. I would have to think it somehow rational that 94 percent of the 12 million Blacks in this country voted for a man because he looks like them (that Blacks are permitted to play the race card), and that they were joined by self-declared "progressive" whites who voted for him because he doesn't look like them.
I would have to wipe my mind clean of all that I know about the kind of people who have advised and taught Barack Obama and will fill posts in his administration - political intellectuals like my former colleagues at the Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government..
I would have to believe that "fairness" is equivalent of justice. I would have to believe that a man who asks me to "go forward in a new spirit of service, in a new service of sacrifice" is speaking in my interest.. I would have to accept the premise of a man that economic prosperity comes from the "bottom up," and who arrogantly believes that he can will it into existence by the use of government force. I would have to admire a man who thinks the standard of living of the masses can be improved by destroying the most productive and the generators of wealth.
Finally, Americans, I would have to erase from my consciousness the scene of 125,000 screaming, crying, cheering people in Grant Park, Chicago irrationally chanting "Yes We Can!" Finally, I would have to wipe all memory of all the times I have heard politicians, pundits, journalists, editorialists, bloggers and intellectuals declare that capitalism is dead - and no one, including especially Alan Greenspan, objected to their assumption that the particular version of the anti-capitalistic mentality that they want to replace with their own version of anti-capitalism is anything remotely equivalent to capitalism.
So you have made history, Americans. You and your children have elected a Black man to the office of the president of the United States, the wounded giant of the world. The battle between John Wayne and Jane Fonda is over - and that Fonda won. Eugene McCarthy and George McGovern must be very happy men. Jimmie Carter, too. And the Kennedys have at last gotten their Kennedy look-a-like. The self-righteous welfare statists in the suburbs can feel warm moments of satisfaction for having elected a Black person.
So, toast yourselves: 60s countercultural radicals, 80s yuppies and 90s bourgeois bohemians.. Toast yourselves, Black America. Shout your glee Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Duke, Stanford, and Berkeley. You have elected not an individual who is qualified to be president, but a Black man who, like the pragmatist Franklin Roosevelt, promises to - Do Something! You now have someone who has picked up the baton of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. But you have also foolishly traded your freedom and mine - what little there is left - for the chance to feel good.
There is nothing in me that can share your happy obliviousness. God Help Us all...



--
GOD BLESS AMERICA, IN GOD WE TRUST, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS, LAUS DEO (PRAISE BE TO GOD}

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003
When will the white man get his chance? All those blacks putting all those black presidents into power. I mean, it's not like the black population is what, 12 percent of the total population.

i am the bird
Mar 2, 2005

I SUPPORT ALL THE PREDATORS
There's nothing of substance in her words.

Some people voted for Obama simply because he's black; on the other hand, some people voted for McCain or a write-in simply because Obama is black. That argument works for either side.

The rest of it is bullshit political buzzwords that don't address any form of policy. Obama will take away our liberties? How the gently caress do you become a professor and possess a complete lack of shame when it comes to not citing any of your claims?

tek79
Jun 16, 2008

My town's newspaper published this a couple of months after Obama won the presidency. I thought it was funny that they managed to find the one black person who agreed with them. My mother-in-law actually photocopied it and snail-mailed it to everyone. Also, a few Google searches reveal Anne Wortham to be an Objectivist (read: Randroid).

Intel&Sebastian
Oct 20, 2002

colonel...
i'm trying to sneak around
but i'm dummy thicc
and the clap of my ass cheeks
keeps alerting the guards!
Finally some sour grapes for this smoothie I'm making

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!
Got this today, barely qualifies but the message is clear - illegals are pampered while the troops are ignored. I have no idea who Maxine is.

quote:

One of Maxine's best!!!!!!!!!



We need to show more sympathy for these people
* They travel miles in the heat.
* They risk their lives crossing a border.
* They don't get paid enough wages.
* They do jobs that others won't do or are afraid to do.
* They live in crowded conditions among a people who speak a different language.
* They rarely see their families, and they face adversity all day ~ every day.

I'm not talking about illegal Mexicans ~ I'm talking about our troops! Doesn't it seem strange that many politicians are willing to lavish all kinds of social benefits on illegals, but don't support our troops.

Please pass this on; this is worth the short time it takes.



REMEMBER ALL OF OUR MILITARY!!!!!

The last line was in giant, red, comic sans.

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009



ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH

quote:

REMEMBER ALL OF OUR MILITARY!!!!!

So, what you are saying is that this Maxine person supports repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell? :psyduck:

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

American troop worship is loving creepy. Even creepier are the people who are blind to it and convinced that the government hates the troops (much like the media is liberal).

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!
Here's a great new one:

quote:

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Please scroll down.

"Let's see here. ? I need to shower, shave, eat some oatmeal,? put on my new Obama T-shirt,? grab my 9 and ? hold up a convenience store.

New Fashion Rage In Police Mug Shots, These are actual Police photos.

Just think about this for a second:



Did you ever see anyone arrested wearing a Bush T-shirt, or for you older guys, an Eisenhower, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, or even Nixon, or Bob Dole shirt.
There MUST be a message here, but I can't quite grasp it. Maybe you can help me out here....

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire
You should have posted the pictures if I remember correctly most of the mug shots were black.

Edit: NVM somehow they didnt load before.

notcreativeenough
Mar 8, 2010

by Fistgrrl

Mordiceius posted:

Here's a great new one:

That isn't new it all. I swear it dates from a year ago.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/mugshots.asp snopses say Jan 2009. It's from a collection of over ten thousand mug shots.

Astra
Aug 7, 2007
This is surely the way it is going to be
I remember that thesmokinggun did that section as part of their weekly mugshot roundup.

I bet there were people arrested wearing Bush shirts, but that's not as interesting. Also, I dont have the resourses to look.

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006

Astra posted:

I bet there were people arrested wearing Bush shirts, but that's not as interesting. Also, I dont have the resourses to look.

I can't really recall people sporting Bush/Cheney shirts. I'm sure they exist, but I don't really remember seeing people wear them, and I live in about the most Bush-centric area there is. Bumper stickers, sure, but T-shirts? No.

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire
Obama had a real cult of personality during his campaign. Not really since Kennedy has a politician been a real celebrity I think, if that makes sense.

The Remote Viewer
Jul 9, 2001
I'm sure a lot of people were arrested wearing Bart Simpson shirts in the early 1990s.

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire
Probably but Bush Sr. jumped on that already.

Seth Pecksniff
May 27, 2004

can't believe shrek is fucking dead. rip to a real one.
I think the T-Shirt craze started ~2004 because I'm hard pressed to think of examples of Clinton, Dole and older candidates selling shirts with VOTE CLINTON/DOLE/JAMES K. POLK.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

freebooter posted:

American troop worship is loving creepy. Even creepier are the people who are blind to it and convinced that the government hates the troops (much like the media is liberal).

Creepy isn't the right word. There are many people out there who booed and spit on returning Vietnam troops and now feel remorse and embarrassment. They have realized that while they may disagree politically or ideologically, the people who go out and give their time, limbs and lives are worthy of our respect and friendship. It isn't worship, it is deference for a person who has sacrificed.

I do agree that people who try to portray the democrats as anti-troop are scumbags and this also causes a certain amount of overcompensating on the part of liberals.

notcreativeenough
Mar 8, 2010

by Fistgrrl

wormil posted:

Creepy isn't the right word. There are many people out there who booed and spit on returning Vietnam troops and now feel remorse and embarrassment. They have realized that while they may disagree politically or ideologically, the people who go out and give their time, limbs and lives are worthy of our respect and friendship. It isn't worship, it is deference for a person who has sacrificed.

I do agree that people who try to portray the democrats as anti-troop are scumbags and this also causes a certain amount of overcompensating on the part of liberals.

A lot of those people who spat on the vietnam troops weren't hippies. They were world world 2 vets as well as korean war vets and Vietnam war supporters who thought the Vietnam troops were pussies for not doing the job.

JamesJBuffalkill
Sep 14, 2004
A Textbook for an SA Account. I'm Sold!

notcreativeenough posted:

A lot of those people who spat on the vietnam troops weren't hippies. They were world world 2 vets as well as korean war vets and Vietnam war supporters who thought the Vietnam troops were pussies for not doing the job.

Citation? Would be a good little fact to have on hand in next time that gets brought up.

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006

JamesJBuffalkill posted:

Citation? Would be a good little fact to have on hand in next time that gets brought up.

I think you might have trouble coming up with documentation of Vietnam vets getting spit upon in the first place, this seems to be one of those things that have passed into popular legend.

notcreativeenough
Mar 8, 2010

by Fistgrrl

JamesJBuffalkill posted:

Citation? Would be a good little fact to have on hand in next time that gets brought up.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/february252008/vietnam_protest_2-25-08.php suggests from one Vietnam era protestor that the spitters were in reality working for the US gov't.

The American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars did however not want anything to do with Vietnam Vets.

If you do the research on how Vietnam vets were treated by the American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars as well as how the World War 2 and Korean War people treated Vietnam vets you would have seen far more hatred and vile attitude towards the Vietnam vets came from the military and conservative side.

JerkyBunion
Jun 22, 2002

Mordiceius posted:

Here's a great new one:

Only registered members can see post attachments!

downout
Jul 6, 2009

This is from facebook, used unironically as an ad hominen attack last night after the house passed it's legislation:

quote:

Maybe you all are a bunch of MORANS! I can certainly tell none of you are parents. I could careless if you win this debate or not? I'm entitled to my opinion and i really don't care about yours. If I recall this was a conversation between *Person A* and I so you can keep out of it!!!!!!!

Note third sentence. Is poster unsure of whether to be careless or not?

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

notcreativeenough posted:

A lot of those people who spat on the vietnam troops weren't hippies. They were world world 2 vets as well as korean war vets and Vietnam war supporters who thought the Vietnam troops were pussies for not doing the job.

The point isn't about spitting, it is about the attitudes that greeted returning vets which persisted well into the 80's. It wasn't until Reagan cleaned up the military and flexed a little muscle in Grenada that attitudes began to change.

And let me tell you something, I guarantee you there were no WWII vets spitting on soldiers. And there is no doubt in my mind that soldiers were spit on.

notcreativeenough
Mar 8, 2010

by Fistgrrl

wormil posted:

The point isn't about spitting, it is about the attitudes that greeted returning vets which persisted well into the 80's. It wasn't until Reagan cleaned up the military and flexed a little muscle in Grenada that attitudes began to change.

And let me tell you something, I guarantee you there were no WWII vets spitting on soldiers. And there is no doubt in my mind that soldiers were spit on.

Then explain the hatred and hostility emitting when Vietnam Vets went to the VA or into American Legion places. Sorry but most of the poo poo the Vietnam Vets got was from Conservatives. Many vietnam vets joined the end the war movement.

ShutteredIn
Mar 24, 2005

El Campeon Mundial del Acordeon
Thank you health care bill. You are the best way, after gay marriage, for me to determine what family members on facebook are insane and I should never have contact with. We couldn't do it without ya!

Intel&Sebastian
Oct 20, 2002

colonel...
i'm trying to sneak around
but i'm dummy thicc
and the clap of my ass cheeks
keeps alerting the guards!

notcreativeenough posted:

Then explain the hatred and hostility emitting when Vietnam Vets went to the VA or into American Legion places. Sorry but most of the poo poo the Vietnam Vets got was from Conservatives. Many vietnam vets joined the end the war movement.

I'm not an expert or anything but when a large mass of very young people start pouring into the ranks of an old people's club I don't generally expect the old people to be happy about it.

You can add in a litany of other circumstances if you want but that alone would explain it for me.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
If anyone is curious about spitting on soldiers during Vietnam, I urge you, urge you, urge you to check out Homecoming by Bob Greene. It has a lot more than just stories about being spat on, of course. It's more of a general book of letters about the experiences of returning vets.

Greene posed the question to the general public, "Were troops spat on?" and got a huge number of responses. This book is the result.

It's divided up into the following sections:
"Yes, It Did Happen...It Happened to Me"
"I Was Never Spat Upon"
"We Wanted a Soldier at Our Table"
"Some Things Are Worse Than Being Spat On" (which is the largest section)
"I Would Like to Tell Another Side of the Story"

I especially recommend this book if you enjoyed Studs Terkel's The Good War.

notcreativeenough
Mar 8, 2010

by Fistgrrl

cheerfullydrab posted:

If anyone is curious about spitting on soldiers during Vietnam, I urge you, urge you, urge you to check out Homecoming by Bob Greene. It has a lot more than just stories about being spat on, of course. It's more of a general book of letters about the experiences of returning vets.

Greene posed the question to the general public, "Were troops spat on?" and got a huge number of responses. This book is the result.

It's divided up into the following sections:
"Yes, It Did Happen...It Happened to Me"
"I Was Never Spat Upon"
"We Wanted a Soldier at Our Table"
"Some Things Are Worse Than Being Spat On" (which is the largest section)
"I Would Like to Tell Another Side of the Story"

I especially recommend this book if you enjoyed Studs Terkel's The Good War.

One of my links in a prior response dealt with a criticism of Greene's book and the whole vietnam vets being spat on by hippies meme. One thing was how all the details were pretty much the same like an urban legend being passed around.

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Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

notcreativeenough posted:

One of my links in a prior response dealt with a criticism of Greene's book and the whole vietnam vets being spat on by hippies meme. One thing was how all the details were pretty much the same like an urban legend being passed around.

quote:

On the other hand, Columnist Bob Greene's 1989 book Homecoming summarizes interviews with several dozen Vietnam veterans and focuses on firsthand accounts of mistreatment from anti-war protesters. He claims that protesters did indeed commit these acts.

Unfortunately, Greene fell from grace when his employer of 24 years, the Chicago Tribune newspaper,fired him for sexual misconduct.

While Lembcke served in Vietnam, Greene gained his fame touring with rock star Alice Cooper which led to one of his most popular national hits; Billion Dollar Baby in 1975. I guess it is all up to the individual to learn what the truth is, and it is a good idea, because nothing evokes raw emotion like this subject.

This article basically says "Greene made a claim", then adds in some pointless innuendo about Greene to muddy up the waters, then has a pointless paragraph that states nothing. How is that in any way a criticism of the things that are in Greene's book?

Remember, the book is not Bob Greene telling you stories or Bob Greene telling you his opinions about the war or how returning soldiers were treated. It's a collection of letters from veterans about their experiences. The fact that he never went to Vietnam doesn't have a drat thing to do with the content of the book because it's got very little Bob Greene in it.

Also it's got a lot more in it than stories about spitting on soldiers. Look at the sections I listed in my previous post.

Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Mar 22, 2010

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