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Thanks for the great info guys, I'll keep it in mind. 
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Mar 5, 2010 00:33
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 Click here for the full 800x598 image.
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Mar 10, 2010 05:20
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I raised 6 clowns past metamorphasis. Here's a 5 week old guy: For a sense of scale, he's probably about 1cm long. The PVC elbow at the bottom is 3/4" diameter.
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Mar 11, 2010 04:53
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What species? It looks a little bit like a tomato.
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Mar 11, 2010 09:05
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Should we even be able to tell, this early?
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Mar 11, 2010 19:28
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They are percula, it'd be pretty hard to tell species at this point. I think tomatoes and clarki actually start with 3 stripes and lose the last two as they mature, whereas the percula and ocellaris gain them as they mature.
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Mar 12, 2010 05:14
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unprofessional posted:For people who have the money, but are intimidated by starting out, you can always use GARF's bullet proof reef system. All you have to do is put in your tank size, and then it tells you exactly what you need to buy, and when to do stuff. Thanks for this! I've recently run into some money and am in the midst of a move, so hopefully I'll be able to start out at my new place with a fat SW tank and put together a decent setup. The problem is: I've got little-no experience with running a saltwater tank. The closest I've ever come to that is owning an iguana. While this is a totally different ballpark, I do understand the basics of how finicky running a habitat can be. Anyways, with that said: I'm completely jealous of your setups. I'll make a post here some time with my setup when I get started and keep it updated. 'til then I'm gonna keep an eye out for a good deal on a ~70 gallon tank for 200 or less. I've seen a few but I'm going to push my luck or a better deal. Seattle always has people getting rid of good poo poo.
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Mar 13, 2010 03:06
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I'm not interested in practical specifics right now, but there's something I've always wanted to do and I'm wondering if any of you guys could tell me if this is feasible or not: A nano reef tank, no more than 10 gallons, with anemones covering 4 of the 6 surfaces, with only the top and front sides clear of them/it. Could a clownfish thrive in this setup, as well?
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Mar 13, 2010 05:47
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I.W.W. ATTITUDE posted:I'm not interested in practical specifics right now, but there's something I've always wanted to do and I'm wondering if any of you guys could tell me if this is feasible or not: That's probably too many anemone, the hosting types will generally engage in chemical warfare and once one dies your entire tank will probably die off in a 10g. Most if not all anemone capable of hosting will also individually outgrow a 10g if healthy (and trust me that you want them to be healthy). Not to mention that you will want enough space clear of anemone to place a powerhead of some type to maintain good flow that anemone like. (All precautions with powerheads and anemone apply, use a foam guard on the intake no matter how small the holes look) 10g is generally enough for a pair of clowns, though. And maybe one hardy/easy anemone like E. quadricolor (commonly, bubble-tip anemone, keeping in mind that it still will outgrow a 10g eventually and can split to produce clones--which won't engage in chemical warfare with itself). Don't plan on keep anything else of value in the tank (I'm talking like, sps and lps corals), so that when the anemone takes a walk (and it certainly will at some point) it doesn't kill anything expensive on you. Stay away from leathers, toadstools, and most other softies in that tank as well. I'd go with corallimorphs (which are closer to anemones than corals) and zoanthids to fill out that tank, since the anemone probably won't be able to kill those. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Mar 13, 2010 |
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Mar 13, 2010 05:54
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Nerolus posted:Thanks for this! Be sure to check with either this thread or reef central before going with what the GARF bullet proof system recommends. It's really outdated in terms of equipment.
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Mar 13, 2010 06:14
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ludnix posted:Be sure to check with either this thread or reef central before going with what the GARF bullet proof system recommends. It's really outdated in terms of equipment. Agreed. They really like the undergravel filter idea too. I've never been sold on the concept.
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Mar 13, 2010 06:30
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arioch posted:That's probably too many anemone, the hosting types will generally engage in chemical warfare and once one dies your entire tank will probably die off in a 10g. Most if not all anemone capable of hosting will also individually outgrow a 10g if healthy (and trust me that you want them to be healthy). I would be happy to do a homogeneous tank of one species or one individual anemone; the clowns would just be icing on the cake and could certainly be excluded. My goal would be to have as much of the 4 surfaces covered as possible, and if going up to a larger tank size is the issue, that's fine. I found a picture of what I'm thinking about, only I'd like to have a species with shorter tentacles- something like S. haddoni. I guess that if someone has done it, it is feasible (at least with whatever species that is in the pic)...  E: poor tang
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Mar 13, 2010 06:43
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Haddoni are generally harder to keep, are highly aggressive, and trying to get it to host anything is a crapshoot (it might decide to eat your clowns, even after they've started hosting in it and have been for a long time), and grow to enormous size. Sounds like you really want rbta (which is what those in that pic are). They're not as super aggressive, most clowns coexist with them extremely well, and since they reproduce half the time by division you can have a tank full of them without having them fight between themselves. Again, standard precautions on powerheads, overflows, filtration equipment, etc. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Mar 13, 2010 |
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Mar 13, 2010 07:24
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What do you all think about non-drilled overflows for a sump? I have a beautiful 100 gal tank that I originally wanted to make a planted FW, but hell I've got the time, money and a permanent residence, so why not do the SW tank that I've wanted since forever. I'd rather not drill the tank at all, even if it isn't tempered. Looking at the way this site explains it, I shouldn't have any problems using a over-the-top sort of overflow as long as it is perfectly air tight. Restarting is not an issue either, since the siphon is maintained even if water stops flowing. Any specific risks by doing this?
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Mar 15, 2010 21:15
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porksmash posted:Any specific risks by doing this? You shouldn't have any problems, but that doesn't mean you won't. I'd see if you can find out if it's tempered, because drilling is worth it in terms of peace of mind. I've seen people run dual overflow boxes for redundancy, but that seems like a lousy solution on a new setup.
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Mar 16, 2010 00:23
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Well the LCD + polarized sunglasses test says it is untempered all around. I certainly don't want to drill it myself so I suppose will look for a glass shop. I was hoping I didn't have to move the tank much more. I had to borrow a truck to get the drat thing home.
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Mar 16, 2010 03:19
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All of these tanks are absolutely beautiful and I'm incredibly jealous. I kind of wish I hadn't gotten rid of the 15 gallon tank I had so maybe I could try my hand at a saltwater tank.
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Mar 16, 2010 03:23
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porksmash posted:Any specific risks by doing this? In THEORY, the risk is that the overflow can get plugged and all the water from the sump can be pumped into the tank, overflowing it. The solve then, is to make sure that the return chamber in the sump is less than the space between the normal high point in the tank, and the very top of the tank (usually, most overflows keep the water level about 2" below the very top of the tank, or just above the trim piece). It's really easy to make sure that the return chamber is pretty small - it only needs to be large enough to get the pump in (although you will need to make sure that you have an auto water topoff system in place as any water that evaporates will disappear from there first. Eventually, the water will drop below the pump and start shooting air into the line (not a big deal, but it's ugly and hard on the pump). Finally, the pump can shut off, meaning that the water can continue down into the sump and overflow the sump. This is solved in two ways. First, you drill a small hole into the return pump tube, creating a siphon break that will stop pulling water out of the tank as soon as the water drops below the return spout. In addition, you need to make sure that the overflow box you use is just at the water level you want (it will take some adjusting). Once that's done, you just need to make sure that the amount drained when the power dies is less than the space available in the sump (made easier by having a larger sump - don't forget that third dimension. Tall premade tanks make EXCELLENT sumps)
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Mar 16, 2010 03:41
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Drilling is pretty easy on thicker glass like your 100g, so I'd go for that without hesitation. You could get a overflow kit from https://www.glass-holes.com like this one: http://www.glass-holes.com/1500-gph-complete-kit-gh1500kit.htm Or even make one yourself (just an acrylic box and bulkhead). Instructional video: http://reefercentral.com/install.html Drilling just requires a new diamond coated hole saw (pretty cheap off ebay or glass-holes.com) and patience. You just make a template to keep the hole saw in place and slowly drill while keeping bit wet with a puddle of water. It feels like it takes forever, but before long you'll have a nice clean hole. You can practice on an old 10g tank or pick up a new one for like $14 to try it on. It's actually considerably harder to drill the thin glass on a 10g than it would be on your 100g so don't be scared off it you crack the tank the first time. You can take it to a glass shop and have them do it, but they won't guarantee your tank or anything, so if they break it you're in the same boat as if you had done it except they won't care or be willing to put the same amount of time in as you will. I know when you're starting out drilling seems really extreme and dangerous, but frankly the siphon based overflows have a much bigger risk of flooding despite all the measures put in place to keep the siphon going. If you read around you'll find people often start out with the siphon overflow and then end up regretting that they didn't drill the tank because it's now filled and stocked and impossible to drill. ludnix fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Mar 16, 2010 |
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Mar 16, 2010 10:02
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ludnix posted:Overflow stuff Ever used a Calfo style overflow rather than the traditional "box & standpipe" type?
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Mar 16, 2010 10:56
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Psimitry posted:Ever used a Calfo style overflow rather than the traditional "box & standpipe" type? That looks nice. Seems like you have much more linear overflow space than you could ever get with a normal box, and from what I have read so far the more linear overflow the better. I suppose the flow rate would be about the same since a standpipe is sucking from the top and the Calfo style is as well. I'll have to read more about both before I take a drill to the tank. I've got quite a bit of experience handling a drill, but usually on thick steel that won't do poo poo if you use too much pressure. I'll just have to take it slow. EDIT: Actually now I think I definitely prefer a side-drilled overflow. If I gently caress up anything, the water won't drain out the bottom and seriously, almost 800lbs of water and stuff is pushing on that bottom pane of glass and I certainly do not want it to break. porksmash fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Mar 16, 2010 |
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Mar 16, 2010 22:23
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Psimitry posted:Ever used a Calfo style overflow rather than the traditional "box & standpipe" type? My frag tank has the glass-holes calfo style overflow and my 120g has the megaflow overflow boxes. Had I known what I do now, I would never have gotten the tank with megaflow overflows. I would have drilled the tank myself or just told them where to put the holes. The calfo style overflow eliminates that huge amount of wasted space and puts the bulkhead on the side rather than the bottom which makes so much more sense. Since you're almost always going to be placing an aquarium near a wall, I would assume put a calflo overflow on that side which won't be viewable anyways. This way you don't have a lot of water pressure on the bulkhead making it more prone to leaking, and it would be so much easier to reach for replacement or installing. The only downside to the calfo overflow is that your plumbing will be outside of your stand and tank, but if it's against the wall then it shouldn't be a problem. Here's a picture of the frag tank when it was first setup. You can barely see the black overflow in the center top of the tank. It's unobtrusive and much easier to work on than the megaflow ones that come with most Aqueon tanks.  One thing I would note about glass-holes overflows is that their overflow box is supported by the pressure of the bulkhead pressing it up against the glass. This isn't really an issue of structural integrity or anything, just that if you tighten the bulkhead or move the plumbing at all you'll shift the overflow box as well. I think it's better to have the actual overflow siliconed to the tank with the bulkhead just touching the glass. porksmash posted:That looks nice. Seems like you have much more linear overflow space than you could ever get with a normal box, and from what I have read so far the more linear overflow the better. I suppose the flow rate would be about the same since a standpipe is sucking from the top and the Calfo style is as well. I'll have to read more about both before I take a drill to the tank. I've got quite a bit of experience handling a drill, but usually on thick steel that won't do poo poo if you use too much pressure. I'll just have to take it slow. You should have no problem with it, just make sure to get a new diamond hole saw, they apparently cannot be reused for more than a few holes. If you read the guides online it should be a breeze. You usually just let the weight of the drill apply the pressue. It makes an awful racket, takes forever and will tire your arm out, but you end up with a pretty clean hole and awesome tank.
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Mar 18, 2010 13:20
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ludnix posted:You should have no problem with it, just make sure to get a new diamond hole saw, Ever drill a large acrylic tank? I'm planning on replacing my 90G LeeMar diamond edge that leaked for the third time with one. I'd really like to do a calfo style overflow on it - especially since I've heard that if they're done properly, they're pretty much silent (which would be a nice change from my previous setup). From what I'm gathering, I'd need to drill about 4x 3/4" holes in the back of the tank equally spaced in the overflow box, then have them all routed to one down pipe. Does this sound about right? Or would I be better off using a large linear overflow box with one drain tube?
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Mar 18, 2010 14:32
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ludnix posted:You should have no problem with it, just make sure to get a new diamond hole saw, they apparently cannot be reused for more than a few holes. If you read the guides online it should be a breeze. You usually just let the weight of the drill apply the pressue. It makes an awful racket, takes forever and will tire your arm out, but you end up with a pretty clean hole and awesome tank. I ordered the 1500 GPH kit and two 3/4" returns from glass-holes (thanks, ludnix, great recommendation). 1500GPH is probably overkill. I don't want all my water flying through the sump, so I think will only use one of the returns and get a couple powerheads to supply the rest of the flow. I picked up a used skimmer on craigslist, a ETSS SumpBuddy40. I really like the size of it and it allows me much more free space in the sump than I planned on. I could only fit a 20gal long tank underneath the stand, so any free space is a boon. I plan on putting the skimmer in the overflow-from-tank section to keep it as far away from the return as possible. I'll probably put it's supply pump in the return section. Circulate the water around a bit before it returns to the tank. Does this make sense? Once I get it all figured out I'll probably post the design to get a couple second opinions. I want to avoid any mistakes the first time around. Another topic is the RO/DI filter. I do want to purchase one, even if I end up dropping saltwater going back to fresh. I've looked around a bit on other forums and I see people not too enthusiastic about the Coralife Pure-Flo brand I was looking at. I do hear good things about Buckeye Field Supply, though. I'll have to figure out what my water pressure is at before I decide on a booster pump or not, but I was looking at the 150GPH premium one here. It is only $50 more than the 'value' version so why not. I'm already murdering my bank accounts. I also need to think about lighting! I'll have to build a top of some sort because I can't go mounting things to the walls in my apartment. I was thinking two MH bulbs supplemented by 2 T5 HOs. I am going to start out with just fish and live rock, but once I'm sure I'm not killing everything I want to add corals. If I want to get fancy I can add in some dim LEDs for night time. I basically plan on copying the features of this hood without spending $600. Hopefully buying the components and building it myself will save some dough.
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Mar 18, 2010 19:16
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porksmash posted:I do hear good things about Buckeye Field Supply, though. I'll have to figure out what my water pressure is at before I decide on a booster pump or not, but I was looking at the 150GPH premium one here. It is only $50 more than the 'value' version so why not. I'm already murdering my bank accounts. I've heard nothing bad or good about them. After looking at them, I don't see anything wrong with them. It's actually really hard to make a bad choice on RO/DI systems because as long as they're using standard filter charges, it doesn't really matter how they build it - the filters do all the work. All the housings do is route the water properly. The only time you can really go with a high end system is with something like a Spectrapure system (which actually DOES make a difference since they have their Maxcap system that allows for a longer DI resin life). Also, it's probably just a typo, but worth mentioning that the system you've mentioned is actually 150 gallons per DAY, not per hour. In my experience though, that number typically falls short of the actual output. And be sure (if possible) to see if it comes with a pressure gauge and a TDS meter so you'll know when your filters need changing. quote:I also need to think about lighting! I'll have to build a top of some sort because I can't go mounting things to the walls in my apartment. I was thinking two MH bulbs supplemented by 2 T5 HOs. I am going to start out with just fish and live rock, but once I'm sure I'm not killing everything I want to add corals. If I want to get fancy I can add in some dim LEDs for night time. I basically plan on copying the features of this hood without spending $600. Hopefully buying the components and building it myself will save some dough. Ok - here's the thing. MH may not be the best solution for you in an apartment. I don't actually know about the tank you're putting on, but I had an unexpected problem when I had them in my last apartment. With my 90 gallon, I had high output T5 when I first moved in, and they lit and grew corals just fine (it's the reason I recommend T5HO for 99% of people, and would probably use them again when I restart my system over the MH that I put in). When I put MH bulbs in though, I started having problems. The tank's temperature increased some, which I was able to mitigate by adding a series of fans to my canopy. This alleviated the temperature issue, but apparently increased the evaporation rate pretty drastically as I started having patches of mold grow on the window sills like crazy. There was too much moisture in the place which I couldn't remove without having my windows open all the time. Once I changed out the MH back to T5HO, the problem solved itself again. As far as the LED moonlamps go, they're largely for show. Yes, there is SOME benefit, but very little. Because 99% of moonlamps out there don't have a dim and brighten system to simulate moon cycles, the benefit of having them is largely lost. They look nice, but they don't really do anything. I can't remember the name of the place (because I've been out of the hobby for a while now), but there was a company out there that makes a moonlamp dimmer that runs on a 30 day cycle that is pretty awesome. I'm sure through a little research you could find it if you're determined to have a beneficial moon lamp. Just remember that the system will probably run you about $150.
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Mar 18, 2010 19:31
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Yeah, that was a typo. GPD. I want a higher capacity system just because they are usually only $25-$30 more expensive than a 100gpd one. You also have a good point about the evaporation. Now that I think about it I'm also concerned about my general power usage as well. I only have 20 amps available, and I think it is on the same circuit as my home theater stuff. I know MH and T5s consume about the same amount of electricty, though, so we will see. Time for maths. edit: and yes, I pretty much only want moonlights so it looks pretty. I'd be spending a lot of time around the tank at night. another edit: Would I be OK with a 4x tube 48" light fixture on a 60" tank? 60" seems like such an odd size for bulbs. porksmash fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Mar 18, 2010 |
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Mar 18, 2010 20:15
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porksmash posted:I know MH and T5s consume about the same amount of electricty, though, so we will see. This is actually way off. In my 90G tank, I had a 4x54w setup which ran the tank perfectly fine. With MH, I was running 2x250w bulbs, or about another 300W for the system. Fluorescents tend to put off WAAAAAAY more lumens per watt, so although the light isn't as intense, it is usually more efficient, electrically speaking. Yet another reason why I usually recommend T5HO to most people, and will probably be selling my MH setup eventually. quote:another edit: Would I be OK with a 4x tube 48" light fixture on a 60" tank? 60" seems like such an odd size for bulbs. 60" bulbs are actually rather common. A setup for one can be found Here, but a 48" one will probably work fine. Because fluorescent lighting is so diffuse, it tends to fill gaps more effectively than a single point light system such as MH. Some people don't like that, however. The question you'll run into is how to place the lights. I would recommend staggering them, so that two are on one side of the tank, and two the other. You'll have problems running a true daylight cycle with this setup (you'll have to put a blue bulb and a white bulb on each circuit so that the light looks balanced), but I think overall it will look better. You could try all four bulbs centered over the tank, but I'm not sure that it would light your tank properly. Something to try out for yourself I guess.
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Mar 18, 2010 21:17
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Yeah, I was actually looking at that exact kit in 48" and 60" on marinedepot.com. The pricing on the 4 bulb kits doesn't make much sense to me. 2 lamp 60" kit is $238. 3 lamp kit, $276. 4 lamp kit, freaking $477. I suppose it is because at that point you get two ballasts, but that doesn't really explain the huge price jump. Two 2 bulb kits would be cheaper. Either way I am set on T5s now, just have to muddle through choices. Thanks for the advice!
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Mar 18, 2010 23:20
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Psimitry posted:Ever drill a large acrylic tank? I'm planning on replacing my 90G LeeMar diamond edge that leaked for the third time with one. I'd really like to do a calfo style overflow on it - especially since I've heard that if they're done properly, they're pretty much silent (which would be a nice change from my previous setup). From what I'm gathering, I'd need to drill about 4x 3/4" holes in the back of the tank equally spaced in the overflow box, then have them all routed to one down pipe. Does this sound about right? Yeah, acrylic is even easier than glass so it should go pretty smoothly. With acrylic you still need to keep the hole saw wet or submerged in water to keep heat down, but you don't have to use a diamond hole saw, a regular hole saw works fine. Heat is the only real issue with an acrylic tank, it won't crack from pressure unless you're putting your whole body weight into it, but heat is a big issue so you need to take it slow. Just keep the bit submerged and make sure you're not going so fast as to melt the acrylic. If silence is your priority I would check out BeanAnimal's silent overflow: http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx It's similar to what you mentioned, but it doesn't appear to merge into a single pipe. I haven't tried his system, but from what I hear it's dead silent. By utilizing a siphon it keeps noise down, but by having the open channel standpipe and emergency standpipe it eliminates the flooding issues that come with hang on tank overflow boxes. porksmash posted:I ordered the 1500 GPH kit and two 3/4" returns from glass-holes (thanks, ludnix, great recommendation). 1500GPH is probably overkill. I don't want all my water flying through the sump, so I think will only use one of the returns and get a couple powerheads to supply the rest of the flow. I picked up a used skimmer on craigslist, a ETSS SumpBuddy40. I really like the size of it and it allows me much more free space in the sump than I planned on. I could only fit a 20gal long tank underneath the stand, so any free space is a boon. I plan on putting the skimmer in the overflow-from-tank section to keep it as far away from the return as possible. I'll probably put it's supply pump in the return section. Circulate the water around a bit before it returns to the tank. Does this make sense? Once I get it all figured out I'll probably post the design to get a couple second opinions. I want to avoid any mistakes the first time around. I haven't seen the skimmer before so you'll have to let us know how it is. You can put the feed pump wherever you'd like, I don't think it will make much difference where the feed pump is for the skimmer, I would probably just leave it in the skimmer compartment for convenience and to reduce the work the pump has to do. That RO/DI unit looks good, they are all pretty much the same build so as long as the price is right you usually won't go wrong. Buckeye Field Supply has good reviews so you shouldn't have an issues with them. They are sponsor of Reef Central, so if you have generic support questions they have a specific forum there where you can ask: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=446&page=1&pp=25&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1 I do the same lighting as you mentioned (2x MH and 2x T5HO) and I've been pretty happy with the setup. You could also go all T5 like Psimitry mentioned, either way will grow corals great, if you go all T5 you won't get the shimmer effect of the MH, but you won't add as much heat to the tank and you'll have more options for overall color of the tank with the various T5 bulbs you could put in. It would just depend on what's important to you, be it low heat, more colors, or that MH shimmer. Here's some sites for lighting you might want to check out: http://hellolights.com/ http://www.championlighting.com/home.php http://www.marinedepot.com/lighting__index-ap.html
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Mar 19, 2010 03:46
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What do people in very arid environments do instead of RO/DI? Looking at the efficiencies of those filters, it looks like if you live in some of the more water-scarce areas of the US, running a serious RO/DI system would cost you a small fortune. Does anyone use a distillation system?
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Mar 19, 2010 21:37
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During the summer, I output the waste RO to a 32gal rubbermaid and use it to water the plants (sprinklers are turned off). During the winter, though, I can't be bothered with that poo poo.
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Mar 20, 2010 01:19
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You could improve water usage by running the waste water back through your system or an additional cartridge (uses up your cartridges something fierce, though) before disposing of the rest (watering your plants, in this case)
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Mar 20, 2010 02:56
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I've seen small scale distilleries, but I think they are pretty inefficient energy wise. I have heard of people using the waste water for laundry and watering plants though.
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Mar 20, 2010 11:56
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 Click here for the full 800x598 image. Nearly fully colored up
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Mar 23, 2010 17:24
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Thought some people might like this nytimes article on harvesting sustainability in the Florida Keys for reef aquariums. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/science/23aquarium.html I would have liked for them to talk about farm raised options as well but overall I found it interesting.
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Mar 23, 2010 22:42
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Andrew Rhyne is one of my professors, he is a pretty smart dude
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Mar 23, 2010 23:01
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Other people quoted, like Borneman, are also some of the most respected names in the trade, so to speak. It's also an article that basically manages to say nothing.
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Mar 23, 2010 23:26
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Drillin' Drillin' Click here for the full 1280x960 image. I was nervous as hell to start. I bought a 10 gal aquarium from Walmart to practice on first. Hole #1 - CRACK! Welp that was enough practice, time for the real thing. All 4 holes were drilled flawlessly. It really is much easier to go through the thicker glass. Now I just have to fill it with water and see what happens. Here is the tank with overflow and returns in place. I'll probably change the middle to a Y setup.  Click here for the full 1280x960 image. porksmash fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Mar 24, 2010 |
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Mar 24, 2010 02:28
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Glad to see it went well, that looks like it's going to work really well. How was the overflow install? It looks like it would be a little easier with the two bulkheads rather than the single bulkhead I have.
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Mar 24, 2010 10:45
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| # ? May 10, 2024 16:21 |
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Install was easy as pie, once the holes were drilled. Just put the bulkhead and o-rings in the right place, put the box on, and tighten the nut. My problem now is that I can't get the box off! I need a large pair of channel-locks to fit around the nut holding it from inside the box. I can't get enough grip with the box being so narrow.
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Mar 24, 2010 15:40
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