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Eric Bischoff got to literally beat up Vince's son and call him a piece of poo poo on live TV, so there's obviously a significant level of trust and professionalism between them. Actually I've always wondered - did Bischoff have any sort of backstage or creative role in WWE? Or was he paid solely to be an onscreen non-wrestling character?
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Apr 2, 2010 06:29
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Minidust posted:Eric Bischoff got to literally beat up Vince's son and call him a piece of poo poo on live TV, so there's obviously a significant level of trust and professionalism between them. The Elimination Chamber was rumored to be Eric Bischoff's idea, but I can't remember if that is the kayfabe storyline or the real one. For all I know it could be a Pat Patterson thing.
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Apr 2, 2010 06:32
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:The Elimination Chamber was rumored to be Eric Bischoff's idea, but I can't remember if that is the kayfabe storyline or the real one. For all I know it could be a Pat Patterson thing. I'm pretty sure the Elimination Chamber, in kayfabe, was Bischoff's creation. I don't know who actually came up with it.
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Apr 2, 2010 06:36
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Minidust posted:Eric Bischoff got to literally beat up Vince's son and call him a piece of poo poo on live TV, so there's obviously a significant level of trust and professionalism between them. Purely on air. There was some discussion of giving him the book for Raw when they actually wanted to make the brands seem different from each other, but nothing came of it.
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Apr 2, 2010 06:46
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CVagts posted:I'm pretty sure the Elimination Chamber, in kayfabe, was Bischoff's creation. I don't know who actually came up with it. Really thought, was there a reason given for it? I mean, the HIAC was created for a reason (to keep DX from interfering), but what was the reasoning behind the EC?
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Apr 2, 2010 09:27
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It was part of Eric Bischoff's 'Evolution' of Raw which included bringing back the world heavyweight title. At that time Raw and Smackdown were casually fueding so when a brand did something, the reason given was always 'ratings'/'to beat Smackdown'.
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Apr 2, 2010 11:02
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reality_groove posted:It was part of Eric Bischoff's 'Evolution' of Raw which included bringing back the world heavyweight title. At that time Raw and Smackdown were casually fueding so when a brand did something, the reason given was always 'ratings'/'to beat Smackdown'. I still feel the WWE really dropped the ball on the feud between Raw and Smackdown!. It was like creative wanted their job to be as easy as possible. If they set up actual "Raw/Smackdown! contract" lengths that you could read on the WWE.com website and the PBP would mention them from time to time ("While Bubba Ray Dudley is certainly doing well for himself here on Raw, one must wonder if his partner D-Von might want to come back to Raw soon. His contract with Smackdown! ends in September and working with Bubba could be at the top of his priorities. What is it going to take for Stephanie to convince him otherwise?") as well as build up actual trades. It was an opportunity for the WWE to bring in the "Hardcore Sports Fan" aspect to pro wrestling. I know people who barely watch hockey or football but spend every waking hour talking about trades, speculation and contracts on message boards. WWE could have tapped into it but were far too lazy. It also would have given a good reason for a young guy to debut on a certain show. "Smackdown! used one of their draft picks to bring up the young John Cena. Raw must be furious for giving that pick away." I'm rambling, but yeah. Me and my friends used to always talk about how cool it would have been and how it would have made a lot more sense, but again, booker laziness.
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Apr 2, 2010 15:59
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Strangelv posted:What is a good site to find out if any independent shows are coming to my area? (Dallas, TX) You may be outta luck. I know XCW in Denton is gone and I'm not sure if PCW is still doing shows. There are some shows running in Ft Worth I think. Look on Facebook For "Vengance" David Fuller or Keith Farmer (same guy) he runs shows and I a nice guy, i used to wrestle for him back in the day.
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Apr 2, 2010 16:12
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CVagts posted:I'm pretty sure the Elimination Chamber, in kayfabe, was Bischoff's creation. I don't know who actually came up with it. It was apparently Arn Andersons idea. He was pitching wargames but Vince seemed uneasy with the idea of using an iconic WCW gimmick. So Anderson was told to come up with a modern development of the idea. The story goes that he was sitting with Patterson and I think Steamboat when the idea of the chambers came up. Of wargames, HHH is a massive mark for those matches and has brought up in numerous interviews he regrets never being involved in one.
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Apr 2, 2010 17:32
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Skinty McEdger posted:It was apparently Arn Andersons idea. He was pitching wargames but Vince seemed uneasy with the idea of using an iconic WCW gimmick. So Anderson was told to come up with a modern development of the idea. The story goes that he was sitting with Patterson and I think Steamboat when the idea of the chambers came up. Furthering cementing Arn Anderson's awesomeness. I'd like to see a 3 vs. 3 Elimination Chamber match. You can do them in the SVR video games, and I think it'd be closer to a tweaked War Games.
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Apr 2, 2010 17:37
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Just gonna say that Kofi Kingston would be king of war games.
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Apr 2, 2010 17:39
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WarGames would certainly be a good idea for the WWE to steal. Same with BattleBowl. Well, maybe not BattleBowl. For some reason a lot of people have a difficulty following the extremely simple rules. 1. Every wrestler has to be eliminated twice 2. Once eliminated from first ring, goto second ring. Last man standing stays for a breather. 3. Once eliminated from second ring, you are done. 4. Winner of second ring faces winner of first ring to determine the winner. 5. It's that simple you stupid fucks. I honestly liked the BattleBowl more than the Royal Rumble, but WCW dropped it pretty fast due to stupid people.
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Apr 2, 2010 19:40
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Lone Rogue posted:WarGames would certainly be a good idea for the WWE to steal. Same with BattleBowl. Well, maybe not BattleBowl. For some reason a lot of people have a difficulty following the extremely simple rules. So, does the winner of the first ring have to be pinned twice by the winner of the 2nd ring?
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Apr 2, 2010 19:42
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Lone Rogue posted:WarGames would certainly be a good idea for the WWE to steal. Same with BattleBowl. Well, maybe not BattleBowl. For some reason a lot of people have a difficulty following the extremely simple rules. If they ever did the double ring set-up, they might as well do BattleBowl and WarGames on the same night.
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Apr 2, 2010 19:52
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oldpainless posted:So, does the winner of the first ring have to be pinned twice by the winner of the 2nd ring? No, the prize for winning the first ring is that you get to wait and relax. It's a bye into the final showdown, basically.
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Apr 2, 2010 19:54
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I was watching some old clips from years ago and it got me to thinking - why don't they use enhancement talent anymore? Sure a jobber match wasn't what people showed up to see - but it would definitely help some of the underlying problems nowadays. You could get some of the rookies in front of people without them having to job out, you could break the cycle of the same six guys facing each other every show and you could better build up feuds to pay per views without having to give away the best blow off matches on free television or whatever. It would also cut back on the belts changing hands so often and would slap down some of the ego problems due to the main eventers not having to job all the time. You could also cut back on dumb finishes with this as well. Hell, even use some of the local indie guys to lose (like they do when they have them play security) and you may stumble on some raw talent along the way. I guess having jobbers around was one of the reasons feuds seemed to slow build better in the past. That or I'm just nostalgic for the days when matches and belts really mattered.
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Apr 2, 2010 20:38
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I gots a question for all you smarks (if this is the wrong term I'm sorry) out there. How does Russo keep getting hired? He seems to be hated by just about everybody (Hogan & some other wrestlers that escape me, I think WWE won't even hire him), and his writing is constantly trashed by both industry people, and casual fans. Is it a case of "he has relevant experience with a number of companies so we'll hire him"? Is there just no one else willing to write wrestling (I'll do it)? Please, tell me how someone who is just so drat hated, with a track record like his, keeps finding work. (is he banging dixie carter?)
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Apr 2, 2010 20:39
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Rusty Shackelford posted:What exactly do you mean? It's been a month and they're still there...
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Apr 2, 2010 21:01
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Trollologist posted:I gots a question for all you smarks (if this is the wrong term I'm sorry) out there. He looks kind of like a fat Al Pacino.
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Apr 2, 2010 21:19
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Mr. Carlisle posted:I was watching some old clips from years ago and it got me to thinking - why don't they use enhancement talent anymore? Blame Bischoff for that one. The Monday Night Wars saw jobbers basically disappear.
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Apr 2, 2010 21:19
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Matt Cruea posted:It's been a month and they're still there... Well Archer and Reks are next likely to appear on the future endevoured roster page. Washingtons back in FCW I heard learning how to wrestle... Saxton is a Play by Play guy, not needed at this time. Tony Atlas is just laughing in the back being awesome.
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Apr 2, 2010 21:21
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Trollologist posted:I gots a question for all you smarks (if this is the wrong term I'm sorry) out there. "I am the reason for Stone Cold & The Rock."
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Apr 2, 2010 21:23
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Blame Bischoff for that one. The Monday Night Wars saw jobbers basically disappear. I don't think you watched WCW if you think jobbers vanished from their TV during that period.
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Apr 2, 2010 21:47
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Mr. Carlisle posted:I guess having jobbers around was one of the reasons feuds seemed to slow build better in the past. That or I'm just nostalgic for the days when matches and belts really mattered. Rusty Shackelford posted:Blame Bischoff for that one. The Monday Night Wars saw jobbers basically disappear. WCW had such a huge roster, they could use anyone they felt wasn't going to make anything for themselves as a jobber. They pretty much cycled these guys on WCW Saturday Night and never had to worry much about them. Around 1995, WCW and the WWF both still used jobbers quite a bit. I'd say around 1997 you pretty much never saw them. There have been instances of jobbers coming back. That failed tag team ECW had with Trent Barretta and Caylen Croft primarily fought local tag teams. Jimmy Jacobs played a jobber to get his rear end kicked by Eddy Guerrero. Basically, ECW tried to bring them back due to a thin roster. Truthfully, any guy in the FCW Development that they don't believe is a potential breakout star should be used as a jobber. Guys like Tyler Reks, Vance Archer, Barretta, Croft, Curt Hawkins, Kaval (lol), etc. Just use them as regular job guys like the Eighties had.
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Apr 2, 2010 21:51
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I think bringing those job matches back would be a great way to slow down the frantic title chance pace and make belts mean something again without causing fans to not see their favorite wrestlers. Belts seemed to mean so much - hell I even remember the batshit insane Warrior holding the IC belt in front of his face during a couple promos and talking about how important it was for him to become world champion. When a guy won the IC belt you more often than not knew that he would soon be vaulted into the world championship spotlight - it was a big deal. Now its a bit of sparkle on guys that most likely wont go higher. Hell even Barry Horowitz would give interviews about how much he wanted a title. Fast forward to now and we've got people being 10 time world champions having been in wrestling less than 10 years. (Silly example, but it seems that way) Honestly, seeing the same guys have matches week in and week out and then again on the monthly pay per view really gives no reason for people to even pay for them. We just end up with screwy finishes to the non-pay per view matches anyway. You could make the job matches entertaining by hiring the best local guys or guys known on the independent circuit for being good and even get them some exposure to fans in the process. It'd be a win-win for everyone it seems. Instead of having people that are already looked at as weak on the mic be written off before their time - let them smash a few jobbers and show some taped backstage interviews (whatever happened to taped and edited promos? Why not show the weaker guys in their best light for now while they get the hang of the whole live promo thing?) Instead of having some screwy finish to a match between two that are feuding you could have the heel interfere in the face's squash match or vice versa saving both some face and saving the disappointment of fans getting yet another poorly booked finish. "Sure you've seen these guys battle 20 times in the last two months but buy the pay per view to see bout number 21!". Maybe its just the "same ol' same ol'" thats got me so burned out that I long for jobbers to be re-instated. Orange Carlisle fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Apr 2, 2010 |
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Apr 2, 2010 21:58
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MassRayPer posted:I don't think you watched WCW if you think jobbers vanished from their TV during that period. The Monday Night Wars (Bischoff's creation) saw both companies switch from mostly squash matches on free TV to weekly cards full of high caliber money matches. That's what I meant. Rusty Shackelford fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Apr 2, 2010 |
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Apr 2, 2010 22:13
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Lone Rogue posted:I honestly liked the BattleBowl more than the Royal Rumble, but WCW dropped it pretty fast due to stupid people. BattleBowl was a fantastic idea but WCW really dropped the ball after the very first one, where they had 40 men and 10 tag matches. They really screwed it when they dropped it down to 16 men and I think it even got lower than that. The whole point of the event was seeing unique teams (like Sting and Abdullah the Butcher, or Bill Kazmier and Jushin Liger in the first one) but years later you ended up with BattleBowl matches where regular tag team partners were teamed up with each other. I saw an interview somewhere where Jim Ross addressed a lack of concept development, specifically mentioning BattleBowl, as a reason WCW failed.
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Apr 2, 2010 22:28
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Blame Bischoff for that one. The Monday Night Wars saw jobbers basically disappear.
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Apr 2, 2010 23:32
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Not to mention the rise of Goldberg. If I remember correctly, he was fed many jobbers.
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Apr 2, 2010 23:46
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Lone Rogue posted:That failed tag team ECW had with Trent Barretta and Caylen Croft primarily fought local tag teams. How loving dare you. Just kidding they do kinda suck
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Apr 3, 2010 00:46
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I don't think they flat out suck but thank god they have names on the tights otherwise they'd be The Naturals.
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Apr 3, 2010 00:56
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Speaking of Baretta and Croft, what is up with that one thing that one of them does where he pumps one fist high in the air, then the other, then the first one again, and he does that over and over?
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Apr 3, 2010 00:58
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CVagts posted:Speaking of Baretta and Croft, what is up with that one thing that one of them does where he pumps one fist high in the air, then the other, then the first one again, and he does that over and over?
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Apr 3, 2010 01:45
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Whitey Bear posted:BattleBowl was a fantastic idea but WCW really dropped the ball after the very first one, where they had 40 men and 10 tag matches. They really screwed it when they dropped it down to 16 men and I think it even got lower than that. The whole point of the event was seeing unique teams (like Sting and Abdullah the Butcher, or Bill Kazmier and Jushin Liger in the first one) but years later you ended up with BattleBowl matches where regular tag team partners were teamed up with each other. Apparently, the random drawing was really random, in as happening live, so these guys had no time to prep matches.
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Apr 3, 2010 01:49
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LividLiquid posted:On WCW, that only happened in the main-events, though. Bischoff utilized jobbers right up until he was ousted from power. Jerry Flynn, anyone? Jerry Flynn was a JTTS and not a true jobber like hundreds of nameless scrubs.
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Apr 3, 2010 03:28
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Jerry Flynn was a JTTS and not a true jobber like hundreds of nameless scrubs. Jobbers to the Stars are built up to lose to the stars. Name one person Jerry Flynn beat.
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Apr 3, 2010 03:39
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Grant DaNasty posted:Jobbers to the Stars are built up to lose to the stars. Name one person Jerry Flynn beat. Ernest Miller
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Apr 3, 2010 03:53
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Grant DaNasty posted:Jobbers to the Stars are built up to lose to the stars. Name one person Jerry Flynn beat. He was managed by Jimmy Hart, and later beat Ernest Miller at Uncensored.
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Apr 3, 2010 03:54
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Davros1 posted:He was managed by Jimmy Hart, and later beat Ernest Miller at Uncensored. Good for him.
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Apr 3, 2010 03:55
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He beat Earnest Miller in "The Block" I believe.
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Apr 3, 2010 03:55
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