|
So I'm looking to start doing some light woodworking at home out of a small room at the back of my house I can use as a sort of small shop. I won't have room for any large tools like drill presses or table saws, but I need to get the basics. My goal however is to do this as inexpensively as possible by picking up tools used, which should be easy in my area. Anyway, I don't really have anything other than a few basic handtools just yet, but a wanted post on craigslist generated someone selling a skill saw and another with a biscuit joiner. I know I don't want the joiner, but I'm tempted by the saw. It's a "Sears Craftsmen Scroll Saw" that he's offering with twenty or so blades for $55 From the pics provided it's obviously an older model and I somewhat suspect it may only be a 12". Anyone think it's worth it? Or should I save my money for more important things (circular saw, power drill, router, jigsaw etc.)  Click here for the full 816x414 image.
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2010 22:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 16:03 |
|
|
Well it depends on what you wish to accomplish. I can tell you that from my experience that those scroll saws, like what you posted, are generally used for arts and craft style carpentry. I am assuming that you know that you will rarely get anywhere near a square cut with that type of saw. If it was me looking for tools I would get the circular, or skill, saw first. With that you can cut drat near anything with the proper blade and steady hand. For curves and other weird cuts, get a jig saw. Unless you are planing on getting very intricate with your designs, the jig saw will do the same job as your scroll saw. Next, I would look at a plunge router because the one I use gets a lot of hours. I would also consider a orbital sander as well. I think the key with buying power tools is to not short change yourself, but at the same time don't buy something that you know will collect dust. Only going to use that scroll saw to make a box, while learning about wood? Get a coping saw; you will gain more knowledge of the wood and save 40$. I know it is hard to pass up on some tools and wait, but when I was learning my trade I found that hand tools provided the same end result with a fraction of the price. Ps. That still looks like a fair price for that saw if you think you need it. And a biscuit joiner would be great if you were doing things like frames and furniture.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2010 02:11
|
|
|
Yeah, that's the way I was looking at it myself. I'm not a complete novice, I've assisted with enough practical around the house type carpentry stuff to know how versatile certain tools are and in general what I can do with what. It's the price of things I'm not on the up and up with. If the price of the saw is a drop dead good one I'd just as soon jump on it and have it around, even if I simply end up reselling it at some point. Edit: I may just try and bargain a little with the guy and get him to drop 10bux on the price. It'd be a fun little saw to have around. Amstrad fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Mar 27, 2010 |
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2010 04:24
|
|
|
Drill presses don't have a very large footprint and are amazingly useful. I wouldn't just count it out as an option.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2010 09:48
|
|
|
I was of the mindset that drill presses were all fairly large stand alone machines. A quick look around tells me I'm incorrect and there's a fair range of bench top sized models as well. I certainly won't discount it if I happen on a used one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2010 23:08
|
|
|
wormil posted:Although I'm a little surprised GE didn't recommend a bandsaw. He said cabinets, otherwise I would have  ibpooks posted:a. Definitely have space problems -- single car garage already lined with storage that still needs to be used for parking in the winter. All the tools need to be collapsible or storable along the perimeter. Festool tools are made in Germany, not China, do realize that your money is going to support a first world worker's standard of living and not to whoever profits from exploiting 3rd world labor. Might not make the cost ok for you, but it at least explains some of it. Festool tools are, in my book at least, of far better construction than your general power tools sold in big box stores. My finish sander has lasted me, in commercial use where I sand gobs of veneer, for about the same length of time it took me to burn through two dewalt and two ridgid 1/4 sheet sanders. My festool still doesn't have any increased vibration from bearing wear. My OF 2000 router was bought used, and performs better than any router I have owned or used previously. Festool's hardly ever go on sale because they control their distribution channel so tightly, while you might not like this at first, it does mean the resale values remain high. Do a completed item search for festool on ebay and compare it to the cost of new. The only reason I got a deal on my OF 2000 was that the seller had his auction end on a Saturday morning. Track saws are excellent for sheet goods, but they can do a great job on regular lumber. Take a look on the festool owner's group for some examples. Makita makes a track saw that is comparable, but it has a shorter warranty and far more quality complaints. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Mar 28, 2010 |
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2010 02:54
|
|
for what seems to be nothing more than a circular saw and a piece of machined aluminum. At least if I dropped $1,200 on a contractor saw I'd get a couple HP motor and 200 lbs of cast iron. Are there other brands of track saw that aren't so expensive or am I looking as the Festool stuff wrong? It seems like the "entry level" is
|
Cabinetmaking is furniture building. Possibly he meant kitchen cabinets but I took it as literal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2010 03:12
|
|
|
Thanks for the input guys. I'm about 80 miles from a Woodcraft store in any direction, but I think it's worth making the trip to one of them to see the Festool saws in person. I had better leave my wallet locked in the glove box when I go in though. Looks like the upcoming sale might only apply to the circ. saws and not the work tables or dust extractors. I guess $50 off is better than $0 off.quote:Cabinetmaking is furniture building. Possibly he meant kitchen cabinets but I took it as literal. I meant both actually. I'm pretty good at finish carpentry, swinging doors, hanging casework, stairs, mitered/beveled mouldings, door/window jambs, etc. I figure the next step would be to build some simple storage cabinets and shelves using mostly sheet goods and simple joinery with an ultimate goal of doing some solid hardwood freestanding furniture pieces. Baby steps for building up skills and more importantly buying tools.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2010 07:18
|
|
|
ibpooks posted:Thanks for the input guys. I'm about 80 miles from a Woodcraft store in any direction, but I think it's worth making the trip to one of them to see the Festool saws in person. I had better leave my wallet locked in the glove box when I go in though. See if the sale applies to the combos, the circ saw is the only tool that is sold in a combo that is not a dust extractor combo. So if you think you want an MFT table, get the circ saw and the MFT in a combo and then get the dust extractor with something else. ibpooks posted:I meant both actually. I'm pretty good at finish carpentry, swinging doors, hanging casework, stairs, mitered/beveled mouldings, door/window jambs, etc. I figure the next step would be to build some simple storage cabinets and shelves using mostly sheet goods and simple joinery with an ultimate goal of doing some solid hardwood freestanding furniture pieces. Baby steps for building up skills and more importantly buying tools. Sheet good cabinetry is, imho, much easier to get into. You really just need a track saw (or a panel saw if you are going to be doing production quantities), a drill press (line boring machine for production quantities, and some method of edge-banding which can be done manually or with a machine. If you want to do solid wood face frames then you are going to need solid wood lumber tools like a jointer and planer at a minimum. I would start with sheet goods based projects and equipment, and then build into a more fully equipped setup. Rikon is now selling a 10.25" combo jointer/planer which is a copy of the older swiss INCA machines like I own, I can wholeheartedly say the small combo j/p is a great way to go. Do look at the festool owners group site, they have a torsion box worktable design on there somewhere that everyone swears by. They just bring it out, cut up their sheets, and then stow it back away. The MFT is better for more exacting work, or for shaping edges or cutting dados with a router. TS55+OF1400+MFT or Homemade MFT+Dust Extractor = Everything you need for making sheet goods panels. A drill press and then a jointer/planer combo would be my next additions.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2010 21:43
|
|
|
Found this flier from Festool here: http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/Festool-mini-catalog-spring-2010.pdf Looks like they are discounting the saw+table combo if you wanted to go that route.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2010 22:17
|
|
|
Any recommendations on the "flat out best" RO Sander, including price in the consideration? I'm honestly looking at the Festool, but I'm not a big sanding person, I prefer planes and scrapers whenever possible. So, rationally, I can't justify this cost: http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=FS-ROT150.XX&Category_Code=FTSAN6 In particular, I don't need the super-aggressive part as much as the ability to reach as far into polish phases as possible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2010 01:15
|
|
|
If you don't need the Rotex get the 150/3. http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/product_detail.html?sid=a4f2d2a4fc73ed7841215f463f111b3a&pid=571726
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2010 01:33
|
|
|
Is there a non-Festool product that's like 90% as good? Again, not using this as much as, say, a furniture-builder or contractor. Or is this the kind of tool that's is just much better to save up and get the right thing, instead of dicking around with crap?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2010 02:13
|
|
|
I've not used a Rotex but have used a 150/3 several times for a couple hours each time. The 150/3 is amazingly smooth to use, virtually no dust because of the extraction. The best sander I own is the Bosch 1250 DEVS. http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1250DEVS-6-Inch-Random-Sander/dp/B0001408SO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1269829683&sr=1-3 It probably compares more directly to the Rotex, which I haven't used. It has switch to flip to a very aggressive mode. It's a really nice sander, leaps and bounds above what most people use, and they get by fine. It's big at 6", so not extraordinarily nimble. I'm a strong guy with big hands though, so I still use it for small things that I'd probably be better off breaking out my lovely Porter Cable 5" I got for free with one of my routers. Dust collection is decent, 8 hole paper. That's hooked up to my Festool CT33. Not as good on dust collection as the 150/3. It's also not really that much cheaper than a 150/3. Edit: I guess if you want to stay under $200 look at the smaller Bosch line, since I've yet to be disappointed by a Bosch tool. I have the sander, did have the tabletop router table, PS40 drill and the other drill in the same class...Tilting head, PS10? ChaoticSeven fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Mar 29, 2010 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2010 03:35
|
|
|
Has anyone been watching the DIY Network free preview? It's pretty much all that's been on my TV for the past 30 days. Great new channel.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2010 14:36
|
|
|
MarshallX posted:Has anyone been watching the DIY Network free preview? The DIY Network isn't new up here (Boston Area Comcast) We get it with the Premium tier that also gives us the Science Channel and a few others that are totally worth it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2010 17:13
|
|
|
I ran across this clever hack today: http://www.wikihow.com/Build-Simple-Floating-Shelves I'd like to do same thing but strong enough to actually hold moderately heavy books. Not quite the Brittanicas mentioned in the article but a few hardbacks, at least. It seems to me the the glue and nail joint between the top side of the shelf and cleat is going to be the weak spot. I'd probably also replace the door with a torsion box made of light ply, not sure. I guess is my real question is how can I make this stronger? What if I made my torsion box with the wall edge missing and made the grid slot into the cleat somehow? I'd like to keep as much of the floating cantilevered look as possible. I'll probably experiment with a few things but I'd love some ideas. Edit: thinking through this, I don't really understand the loading issues. Is it basically a beam loading problem? laod fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Mar 30, 2010 |
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2010 18:23
|
|
|
I'm not really sure how you'd make it stronger, but the weakness doesn't come from the materials used, it comes with the angle of force against the surface area of the retaining wood. With a bracket you're able to "push" against more of the stud, distributing the weight onto the wall/wood of the stud. With this kind of design you're basically putting torque on the screws holding the retaining wood in place- like using a prybar behind the wood, ripping it off the wall. If you like the style, maybe you could do an "open concept" with something like boxes, so more weight can be distributed? I don't know... pretty cool little idea for decorative shelves though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2010 19:09
|
|
|
Just a quick followup. The door is actually pretty strong. It does fine with most of my books, that said, I don't feel confident with a full 5-6' of programming books up there. Going to try a french cleat + torsion box this weekend. If nothing else the better ratio of shelf thickness to shelf depth should help. Apropos of nothing, while reading about dust collection I ran across Bill Pentz' site (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm) now I'm terrified that I'm going to kill myself with dust despite using a respirator almost always and despite the fact that I don't know any wood workers that have gotten sick due to poor dust collection. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2010 01:58
|
|
|
laod posted:Apropos of nothing, while reading about dust collection I ran across Bill Pentz' site (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm) now I'm terrified that I'm going to kill myself with dust despite using a respirator almost always and despite the fact that I don't know any wood workers that have gotten sick due to poor dust collection. Yeah, welcome to woodworking, enjoy the nasal cancer and respiratory diseases. My business making engraved wedding invitations out of wood has me sanding a lot of veneer. I didn't get appropriate protection when we started because we "couldn't afford it". Now I wear a 3M powered respirator because if I don't I will be laid up in bed for two days recovering. The allergy isn't just wood dust either, any fine dust can trigger it. The fun-ness I get to wear now (I paid $500 for a twice used model that has served me well for two years now). Seriously, a whiff of walnut dust in the air will trigger my sinuses to start seizing up, you don't want that to be you. Pentz is spot on too, any of the major manufacturer designs are poo poo. I got a small clearvue cyclone before Oneida threatened to sue them as Oneida was granted a patent on a design that was made freely public years previous. My friend has one of the oneida small cyclones. The difference in filter cleanliness is night and day (and we did test is on the same vacuum). If the cyclone doesn't have an inlet port tangent to the cyclone's outer wall, and that downward spiral ramp, then it is just a fancy chip separator. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Apr 2, 2010 |
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2010 03:37
|
|
|
GEMorris posted:My business making engraved wedding invitations I'm getting married in two weeks, where were you 6 months ago? This is the best thing I've ever seen.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2010 04:21
|
|
|
After I got laid off from my job making picture frames for art galleries in Toronto I decided to go back to school to get a diploma in furniture making. I enrolled at Sheridan College with no art background and no woodworking experience. How was my first year? Well I am just finishing up my first year 'big project'; making a table. I was inspired by 1930s canadian modernism and I wanted to channel that serious, weighty and grounded look into 2010. I decided on a coffee table. So after some concept sketching, I made a 1/4 scale model. I got my model critiqued, made a couple changes and started drafting (by hand). I think the drafting of an object like this is a real art. It helps me get my head around how exactly I'm going to build it from material milling to glue up. Sketchup is great and all, but there is something so visceral and satisfying about putting pencil lines to vellum, making such precise markings. This was one of my favorite steps in the project and I think I made 4 or 5 orthographic and section view drawings including cutting lists, space for shop notes, and isometric views of how certain parts fit together. The table is 3' long x 17" wide x 18" tall.  In order to get a simple look, the process would have to be ridiculously complex. The top and side elements are torsion boxes, edged in solid walnut. After the edging I jointed some niiiiice walnut veneer and popped those boxes into the veneer press and put about 3 tonnes of pressure on those babies. So those boxes had to be pretty strong lemme tell ya. There was a moment when I was actually nervous that maybe some of my joinery in my torsion box might not hold out and I would end up crushing my boxes to splinters but it all held out okay.  The bottom panel is 3/4 baltic birch plywood edged and veneered. The 'leg' element is a solid piece of ash. The joinery was a bit finicky but I have shop drawings of how that went together if anyone is interested. I suppose I could post those if anyone is really interested in how that leg works.  Oh I should also mention that this table has a drawer in it. The drawer runs nearly the full length of the table. It is about 30" long, piston fit between the plywood ribs of the torsion box. Since the drawer is so long and narrow it has nice smooth action.  Those are my shop drawings in the drawer there. Each element is joined using a festool domino machine (good god this thing is worth every penny of the 900 bucks Sheridan college paid for it). After I dominoed everything, sanded the hell out of it, and filled most of the imperfections I masked the joinery and started spray laquering each element. I hit it with some sanding sealer, sanded again, and then sprayed about 4 coats of satin laquer. Then I did some buffing and some waxing.  Afterwards I glued it up with epoxy in soft clamping cauls. Everything fit together like lego bricks. Many of my colleagues questioned the use of the sapwood panel I used on this side. Personally, I like the look of it. Sure it breaks the nice brown flow of the walnut around the piece but it is also framed really nicely by the thin line of the veneer and the thick lines of the rear panel and drawer front. It's a nice bit of visual interest and if I had to build this all over again and I saw the same figure, I'd still use it goddamn it.  I had hoped to capture a 'modern canadian' look that didn't cater to a 'traditional' aesthetic. I tried not to waste much material, so the whole thing weighs in at about 8 board feet of walnut, 5 square feet of 1/2" plywood, 3 square feet 3/4" plywood, 6 sheets of walnut veneer, and a big chunk of ash. All in all I used about 200 dollars worth of material and spent about 120 - 150 hours on this project. I would say that about 50 - 60 or those hours were design, drawing, and sitting around pondering the best way to fit this thing together. If I had to do it all over again I could bang this puppy out in about 60 hours.  I think this piece will be in our gallery show at the end of the year (I hope). It's not perfect, and I would do a few things differently if I built it again, but I have to say I'm pretty pleased with the result. All the sweat and tears were certainly worth it. what do you think?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2010 15:52
|
|
|
Joeytunes posted:
I agree with your colleagues that the sapwood panel wasn't the best choice. Brutalisim/International Modernism tends to work best when the facade materials are homogeneous. I like it from the other side much better. That being said, good for you for sticking to your guns creatively. Listen to the critique, consider it, and then decide if you want to follow it or not. This is a little less true with historically inspired pieces, and not really true at all with historic reproductions. However you did say that you were going for something modern and Canadian that was just inspired by the 1930's Canadian modernism movement, so you can give yourself more leeway. BTW in what ways was Canadian modernism different from Bauhaus modernism and American 30's modernism? Other than the sapwood panel, I like it a lot. The drawer is a nice functional touch. I might have put a little more visual weight on the bottom shelf, so that the ratio between the bottom shelf and the walnut leg was the same ratio as the walnut leg to the top. I'm a big fan of rectangular slabs of ash, as evidenced by my Roubo workbench leg vise. Dude I want a domino so freaking hard
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2010 18:02
|
|
|
From what Ive seen, and I don't really claim to be an expert here, the Canadian modernist pieces look a little less 'serious' than bauhaus or american modernism. The pieces I looked to for inpiration had this tenative quality about them. When I'm at school next I will scan a few of the pics from a text in our library. I'm not sure it was all that different, but we just didn't have rockstars like gropius or kandinsky up north here. I also thought that the sapwood panel telegraphed the fact that there was a drawer in that side of the table. Ultimately I have no choice but to embrace the fact that it is diferent and love it for what it is; my first attempt at making furniture. I hear what you're saying about the bottom shelf, and I think I agree. In my model, the vertical elements didn't meet the floor and it looked a little 'floaty', when I reworked the model so that the vertical slabs grounded it I felt more comfortable with it. Looking back though, adding another inch to the thickness would have grounded it nicely without taking away the weight of the table top. This is really great feedback. Most of my classmates aren't very concise when giving criticism and I really apreciate it. Seriously we have a few festools in the shop and those things are genius. The domino saved me a whole day's work easily.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2010 18:26
|
|
|
Joeytunes posted:Impressive table goodness. I'm not qualified to critique the piece beyond simply saying that I really like the way it looks and I love the drawer. I particularly love the overall look in the pic looking into the drawer. I am ambivalent about the sapwood. How did you finish it? I would definitely be interested in seeing how the legs went together. For my personal tastes, I too would have made the lower shelf a bit thicker but I suspect that would be easy to overdo. I might also have tried to hide the drawer while closed by matching the drawer front up more closely in terms of grain and color. On the other hand, what fun is the drawer if it's hidden and I do like the contrast (it matches the sapwood, right? In some of the early pics it looks like it matches the top, in later pics it seems darker. I'm a terrible judge.) Will this be moving into your home after it's gallery stint? It's easy for me to say all of this when I still don't have anything I'm confident enough to post so take me with a grain of salt. Well done.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2010 19:32
|
|
|
laod posted:
I'll post a scan or a pic of my drawings for referrence after the weekend. The finish was a spray on pre catalysed satin laquer. It was really easy to apply because all the pieces are relatively planar, so no drips or sags! The drawer also has a false back about 17" in so it looks like the drawer stops... but really, there is 13 or so more inches of drawer left in there to store.. umm... secret documents? After its time in the gallery it will be moving into our best friends apartment. They are in need of a coffee table and I am in need of some money for some hand tools. I really don't know how much I should ask for from them though. I mean, it's student work, and it has its flaws, but it is certainly one of a kind eye candy for their living room. On the other hand they have well to do friends and family, and they may buy another piece from me in the future. Here's a question: What would you expect to pay for a table like this?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2010 20:41
|
|
|
I have to agree with most others when they say that piece of sapwood feels out of place. The idea of using a lighter colored bit on that end feels like a good idea, but something about the placement or the color or possibly even that specific type of wood just doesn't feel right. I think had I done it I would have brought the sapwood within the main body of the table. I dunno how clear I'm being with what I mean here though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2010 22:59
|
|
|
Joeytunes posted:After its time in the gallery it will be moving into our best friends apartment. They are in need of a coffee table and I am in need of some money for some hand tools. I really don't know how much I should ask for from them though. I mean, it's student work, and it has its flaws, but it is certainly one of a kind eye candy for their living room. On the other hand they have well to do friends and family, and they may buy another piece from me in the future. If you sell it for less than $700 you're desperate, less than $500 and you are a sucker (many students are). You said you could knock another one out in 60 hours? How much would you expect to get paid per hour? Add materials on top of that figure. Your friends may balk, China has thoroughly ruined the north american furniture market, which is why I'm in the wedding invitation business :  :What's on your handtool list? If a Veritas Dovetail Saw or a Veritas Bevel-up jack plane are, let me know as I have a new saw and a ever so slightly used plane for sale. I desperately wanted to like bevel up planes, but they just didn't work out for me. However gobs of folks love the BU Jack and use it for just about everything, especially shooting. The Veritas DT saw is fantastic, I just already have one (I have all three actually) and was then gifted another one. I'd love to see your whole shopping list though. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Apr 3, 2010 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2010 03:27
|
|
|
The Veritas has the black synthetic spine right? If he isn't I might be, depending on price/how much work I get next week. People call that saw ugly, I think it looks sexy as hell.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2010 04:08
|
|
|
ChaoticSeven posted:The Veritas has the black synthetic spine right? If he isn't I might be, depending on price/how much work I get next week. People call that saw ugly, I think it looks sexy as hell. I started a verified shitstorm on woodnet when I critiqued that saw. The only thing the old white retired accountants cum-woodworkers hate more than someone who acts like they know what they are talking about is a young person with an education using words they don't understand to explain concepts they don't even know exist. Just about every woodworking forum I have ever seen is an endless circle-jerk of retired white collar hacks and tool collectors that think their Lie Nielsen collection makes them a "real craftsman". Have I ever mentioned how much I dislike baby boomers? Yes, it is the one with the stainless steel filled polymer spine (cold plastic, that trick never gets old when you teach materials courses). It is new in the box and I will sell it for $50 + $7 shipping. It is $65 new from lee valley before the cost of shipping from Canada. My wife calls it the 'space cowboy' saw. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Apr 3, 2010 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2010 04:21
|
|
|
Currently I have a table saw... and that's it. For my next purchase I'm torn between a band saw, a planer, or a jointer. I do have a router or I'd probably go for that. Thus far I have built some speakers, some furniture with mostly plywood, and a mid-length list of assorted small projects (boxes mostly - actually, I have a real box theme going on). I guess I also failed to build a plywood kayak in that time. I'd like to get into some larger mostly hardwood pieces, starting with a replacement for a media cabinet (larger version of: http://www.homedecorators.com/P/Burnham_Standard_Multimedia_Cabinet/850/ - like the design, hate the poor construction). I'm leaning towards a planer but I'd like advice from others since I wont get to buy another big tool for quite a while. If I get lucky with craigslist I guess I might be able to manage a planer and jointer, which would be pretty sweet. I'm also open to other suggestions. Honestly the best upgrade for me right now would be a new garage or at least a new slab for the one I have, but that's out of the budget. Apropos of nothing, anyone tried to build a sofa or other large, upholstered piece?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2010 04:33
|
|
|
GEMorris posted:I started a verified shitstorm on woodnet when I critiqued that saw. The only thing the old white retired accountants cum-woodworkers hate more than someone who acts like they know what they are talking about is a young person with an education using words they don't understand to explain concepts they don't even know exist. Just about every woodworking forum I have ever seen is an endless circle-jerk of retired white collar hacks and tool collectors that think their Lie Nielsen collection makes them a "real craftsman". I'd like to read that post/critique. I read Woodnet quite a bit, post infrequently. I've noticed they do seem to get riled up about the oddest things sometimes. Often it's beyond my understanding as to what caused a controversy. They can be suspicious lot overall, I guess it's just the older demographic. Still, there are some very helpful and knowledgeable people there. As for the saw, the price sounds fine. I guess the rest is up to fate. I told myself no more tool purchases unless they were financed by woodworking. I've been holding to that pretty well so far.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2010 04:41
|
|
|
laod posted:Currently I have a table saw... and that's it. For my next purchase I'm torn between a band saw, a planer, or a jointer. I do have a router or I'd probably go for that. Thus far I have built some speakers, some furniture with mostly plywood, and a mid-length list of assorted small projects (boxes mostly - actually, I have a real box theme going on). I guess I also failed to build a plywood kayak in that time. I'd like to get into some larger mostly hardwood pieces, starting with a replacement for a media cabinet (larger version of: http://www.homedecorators.com/P/Burnham_Standard_Multimedia_Cabinet/850/ - like the design, hate the poor construction). I'm leaning towards a planer but I'd like advice from others since I wont get to buy another big tool for quite a while. If I get lucky with craigslist I guess I might be able to manage a planer and jointer, which would be pretty sweet. I'm also open to other suggestions. Jointer/Planer combo if you can swing it (Rikon is making a 10" that is a copy of the INCA machines, I haven't heard good things about the small Jet combo units) or if not, pick up a jointer and a planer from craigslist. If you have a chance to buy an older cast iron jointer or planer for cheap, I say go for that if you have the space. An old 12" Parks planer will still be kicking long after the last four post dewalt planer goes to the junkyard. A jointer makes a face flat. A planer makes one face parallel with another face. A bowed board sent through a planer is just going to be a thinner bowed board on the other side. My real suggestion would be to buy a Stanley #6 or #7, and build a Roubo workbench from southern yellow pine. You can build the basic bench without the tail vise for less than $200 and add the vise later. SYP is a forgiving medium to learn how to plane on, and the bench will give you enough material to practice with that you should be relatively competent at flattening boards once you finish. I have a 1935 south bend lathe sitting on my Roubo right now and it is driving me absolutely nuts to try and do any woodworking, as every operation takes 3-4 times longer without access to the bench. It is truly amazing what an awesome bench it is for solid wood woodworking. Workbenches book, highly reccomended, has plans and instructions for the Roubo and Nicholson benches, which are really just bonuses. The meat of the book is Scwarz's explanation, classifications, and analysis of what types of tasks woodworkers do on a bench and what type of design suits those tasks best. http://www.woodworkersbookshop.com/product/workbenches/workshop-projects French (Roubo): http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/Shooting+The+Cover+Of+The+Workbench+Book.aspx English (Nichiolson): http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/The+English+Workbench.aspx
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2010 06:00
|
|
|
in case anyone cares, this seems like a pretty drat good deal for a tracksaw setup (I ordered one for myself, though Im not sure if it's the 5008mga or 5007mga saw that's included): https://www.heavydutytools.net/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=626 The site seems pretty reputable according to the guys at the woodnet forums. dyne fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Apr 3, 2010 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2010 06:42
|
|
|
Joeytunes posted:I get where you were going with the sapwood although I might have gone a different way I definitely wouldn't have used heartwood in place of it. Also, stain the table-side face of the drawer, it looks unfinished. GEMorris posted:Have I ever mentioned how much I dislike baby boomers? They all circle jerk to Fine Woodworking and anything outside that comfort zone is verboten.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2010 07:56
|
|
|
I've always had a heavy interest in woodworking and furniture making. Especially since I can think of a lot of sweet rear end designs, and finding one similar in a store is like 5x more expensive than it should be, or that I could pay. Unfortunately I live in an apartment...Am I going to have to rent a huge loft as a workspace? Does anyone here produce decent stuff in an apartment?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 03:36
|
|
|
RizieN posted:I've always had a heavy interest in woodworking and furniture making. Especially since I can think of a lot of sweet rear end designs, and finding one similar in a store is like 5x more expensive than it should be, or that I could pay. As long as you have room to set up a work surface that you can ruin (like a door across two sawhorses) and put a tarp down, presumably you accomplish a great deal. I've done lots of minor woodworking (building frames and stands for things) as well as my current refinishing project in an apartment. I've had to shove furniture aside and cover things so as not to get sawdust on them, but I made it work. Actually building something from scratch or major tool storage may become an issue after a while, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 04:47
|
|
|
If you're just doing basic stuff, say, skill saw + power drill (you can do a lot with those two tools) you can always just go outside and do it there. I lived in a duplex with no garage or anything for a while, and managed to build a good deal of functional items by working out of the back of my truck in my parking space.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 04:57
|
|
|
RizieN posted:I've always had a heavy interest in woodworking and furniture making. Especially since I can think of a lot of sweet rear end designs, and finding one similar in a store is like 5x more expensive than it should be, or that I could pay. Start here? http://roughwood.kennethwoodruff.com/2010/03/meet-the-knock-down-workbench/ If you are working where you live, think of sawdust as poop. You want to make as little as possible and in the most contained manner possible. This means either expensive power tools or hand tools. Planes make shavings, and handsaws drop the dust right where you have sawn. Learn to use a scraping plane in lieu of a sander and you will be better off in about every way imaginable. If you don't know where to start, read the Woodworking Magazine Blog When you are ready to get some tools buy a Stanley No. (3, 4 or 4 1/2), (5, 5 1/2, or 6) and (7 or 8). If you want to start with just one plane, get one of the middle ones as you can make it muddle through all the tasks. You'll need a block plane regardless, I like Miller Falls low angle planes, but Stanley's are the "standard" and are just as good. Get Schwarz's latest video about planes, or his older one Coarse, Medium, & Fine.. Get the Veritas Dovetail saw and Crosscut saw. Pick up everything else from flea markets etc. Miller's Falls #2 and #5 eggbeater drills are effing fantastic, a 'yankee' or 'bell systems' Stanley brace and a set of auger bits are a huge boon as well. The planes should run you around $200 or less total, the saws are $65 each, an eggbeater and an auger with some bits will be around $100 with a decent bit selection. Then you need chisels, I think this narex 4 chisel set is enough to get started with and it will leave you with enough left over to buy a marking gauge and a proper mortising chisel in 1/4" or 5/16". That should all be under $500. You will still need a way to rip and a way to crosscut. Panel saws are the traditional hand tool way. I find panel and frame saws to be laborious. This is one area where I would recommend a festool track saw and dust collector, if you can afford it. If not, then I say stick with hand tools as any bandsaw that is cheaper than a festool ts55 is going to throw dust everywhere and not have the needed capacity, any table saw small enough for your use is going to be unsafe imho, and a regular circle saw is just going to coat your apartment in sawdust. If you don't need your bench to collapse, consider making a shrunken down Nicholson English bench with no rear apron that could double as an eating table or desk. If you really want to go with power tools, just send festool several of your paychecks, as they are the only ones that have good enough dust collection to use in your home IMHO. EDIT: ADDED INFO, SIMPLICITY BREAKDOWN If you are incredibly strapped for cash and/or space, you can make the following setup work for most tasks: 1. $40 Stanley #6 (you are going to use this for roughing and jointing, they are underpriced due to Patrick Leach not liking them) 2. $20 Stanley #4 (it is the most prolific of all of the Stanley planes and therefore tends to be the cheapest) 3. $20 Stanley #60 or #60 1/2 or a Miller Falls #16 or #17 Low angle block plane 4. $25 Miller Falls #2 or #5 eggbeater drill (I'd go with the #2 if you have the choice, but either will work great) 5. $35 That set of four Narex chisels (hard to beat that price even at a flea market, but if you get lucky go for it) 6. $70 A mortising Chisel (I love my Ray Iles pigstickers and wholeheartedly recommend spending a little extra here) 7. $130 Pair of Veritas Dovetail and Crosscut Saws 8. $50 Brace & Auger Bits ("Yankee" braces are overpriced these days, but the Stanley "B" or "Bell Systems" braces that they made for electrical linemen are readily available and work great) 9. $30 Disston or similar panel saws in Rip and Crosscut format 10. $15 Some southern yellow pine to make sawbenches out of, congrats! Your first project is a useful tool! 11. $20 An 8000 grit sharpening waterstone, you can get an imported stone, you don't have to buy a norton. I will send you a maple board with diamond abrasive embedded into it to use as your 1000-ish grit stone and some extra diamond paste if you follow through with this. Total: $465 These estimates are on the high end of flea market prices (when referring to used items) and about average for ebay BEFORE shipping. I don't see how you can get any sort of reasonably rounded functionality this cheap any other way and still want to live in your apartment after doing any work. The power tool equivalent of this setup would be a circ saw, a power drill, a random orbital sander, and a router (plus bits!). Oh and a vacuum to try and keep things clean. Even at used prices you will be approaching the hand tool total and you will still need some of the hand tools like chisels and the stones to sharpen them. You still won't have much fine control with this setup like you would with hand tools, but you will make a mess faster. END EDIT Bad Munki posted:If you're just doing basic stuff, say, skill saw + power drill (you can do a lot with those two tools) you can always just go outside and do it there. I lived in a duplex with no garage or anything for a while, and managed to build a good deal of functional items by working out of the back of my truck in my parking space. This is very true, we do need to know more about your situation. My recommendations were based on working within your apartment, it can be done but the power tools with good dust collection cost more (they are also better tools in many other ways in this case). GEMorris fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Apr 5, 2010 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 05:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 16:03 |
|
|
Joeytunes posted:what do you think? I think that's a pretty awesome table. I'd buy that in a heartbeat, but it'd probably be sold in one of those expensive furniture galleries, so I'd have to settle for a $20 table from Walmart. Seeing projects like this is pretty inspiring. I've somehow collected a few hand tools over the years, and I think I might just get into this. Also, that drawer would make an excellent stash box.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 08:12
|
|