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Don Wrigley posted:Actually, 2/3 of Goldman's profit comes from trading, though nobody knows the split between prop trading and client trading (I'd guess it's more of the former). I seem to remember someone getting hold of some audited records of GS's prop trading, which suggested it was pretty much unprofitable. I'd be surprised if they're making most in prop given how easy it must be for them market making, what with much of the competition disappearing. Also there's a pretty fine line between the two - I bet it's pretty easy to be a prop trader if you happen to be sat on the GS trading floor, chinese walls or not... Hobologist posted:I can understand how Goldman Sachs gives stocks an excuse to correct, but the journalists are saying it is also dropping the price of oil and gold. Don't know about oil, but Paulson is heavily invested in gold, so maybe fears that he could be forced to liquidate? I doubt that's the case, and even if it is, it's probably massively overblown.
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Apr 19, 2010 19:45
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f2a posted:I seem to remember someone getting hold of some audited records of GS's prop trading, which suggested it was pretty much unprofitable. I'd be surprised if they're making most in prop given how easy it must be for them market making, what with much of the competition disappearing. How long ago was this? I would assume that Goldman's most profitable means of prop trading is their high frequency/flash trading business. Of course this could be considered both client or prop trading, depending on how it's defined and what money is used etc. It's a very fine line, as you said.
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Apr 19, 2010 19:52
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I thought the practice of flash trading stopped some time in 2009?
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Apr 19, 2010 20:12
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really wishing I had bought 10000 shares of C when it bottomed at 98 cents a share.
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Apr 19, 2010 20:35
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My understanding is that most HFT is market making, often breaking even and aiming to earn rebates for providing liquidity. Also heard that the big players are specialist companies (GETCO etc) rather than the banks. Flash trading appears to be a bit of a myth based on a misunderstanding by the NYT and perpetuated by ZH. A flash order is basically an Immediate-or-Cancel, which is like putting in a limit order to buy between the best bid and best ask, then pulling it straight away if it doesn't get filled. The idea is that people (or more likely, computers) will be looking to sell at a particular price, but not willing to quote it. f2a fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Apr 19, 2010 |
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Apr 19, 2010 20:37
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What's the view on MSFT earnings around here? I'm not sure myself, and I'm not sold on the long-term growth of the stock. I'm thinking unloading my holdings now might be the best chance I'll get.
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Apr 19, 2010 20:44
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destructo posted:I thought the practice of flash trading stopped some time in 2009? Looks like you are correct...according to Wikipedia, the exchanges voluntarily stopped offering the service in September 2009. I still think HFT, even as market making, can be profitable (without flash trading), though less and less so as more players get into it, thereby reducing the bid/ask spread (which, as we can see, is extremely low already).
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Apr 19, 2010 20:56
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Koirhor posted:really wishing I had bought 10000 shares of C when it bottomed at 98 cents a share.
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Apr 19, 2010 21:26
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Currently in First Industrial (FR) at $4.90. As an REIT I was under the impression one of the more important metrics, at least compared to earnings per share, was FFO (funds from operations). I can't seem to figure out why analysts are placing the value at $5.50 and overemphasizing EPS? Here's the Google link to it: http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:FR I know pretty much everything there is to know about the company and short of being able to see the future, at least as far as I can tell, they're doing well considering the market they're operating in and still by law have to begin paying a dividend again soon. Is this maybe just me trying to rationalize the irrational or is the industrial real estate market in for some nightmarish implosion that I'm not aware of? Edit: Cheesemaster200 posted:GE is like the Debbie Downer of the stock market I'm convinced there are a lot of people out there who want it to crash and burn big time and are really bitter that it didn't keep on going when it was down at 7ish if I remember right. Jabbu fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Apr 19, 2010 |
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Apr 19, 2010 22:38
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The market has decided that the SEC announcement on Friday was much ado about nothing, and after GS's earnings tomorrow morning, I suspect the news will move to page 2. That said, I don't have a financials position going into tomorrow.
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Apr 20, 2010 00:39
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I see C as volatile and I've been sort of trading it on and off for like a year. I buy it low (obviously) and I treat it as a long term investment but what likes to happen is it jumps up like a huge percentage really fast. So I sell it and it settles back down. Lately, it doesn't go back down as much. I bought at 3.50 and I sold at 4.80 last week and rebought this morning before the jump today. After doing this sort of weird cycle several times I've ended up with more shares than I started with despite not adding more money to the pot. I try to trade the swings and keep profit if I can but otherwise I just treat it long term if I get a loss or something. Its creeping up and with their earnings it will keep going over time. EDIT: I've also found that the pre-market is a pretty good indicator when there is high volume before open, like 100million.
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Apr 20, 2010 05:25
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I got stopped out of Citi yesterday at 4.75, looks like I should have held on. No great loss though, I have some 2012 long calls that will be in the money shortly. There's just too much volatility in it right now to justify holding it long term. Goldman gets sued and they drop 5% in a day? Everyone is too jittery with their hands hovering over the SELL button.
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Apr 20, 2010 17:56
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So why is AAPL down $2.24? Are people expecting disappointment with todays earnings releases?
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Apr 20, 2010 20:26
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MrBigglesworth posted:So why is AAPL down $2.24? Are people expecting disappointment with todays earnings releases? It's only down 1% and it's not uncommon that it declines ahead of earnings. Often picks back up a day or two later. At any rate options premiums were ridiculous so I sold May ICs at the close. Edit: And they loving crushed earnings ($3.33 v. $2.45 "expected") 
Plastic Jesus fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Apr 20, 2010 |
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Apr 20, 2010 21:19
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I WANT TO EAT BABBY posted:It's only down 1% and it's not uncommon that it declines ahead of earnings. Often picks back up a day or two later. At any rate options premiums were ridiculous so I sold May ICs at the close. Up 7% so far.
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Apr 20, 2010 21:53
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Jabbu posted:I'm convinced there are a lot of people out there who want it to crash and burn big time and are really bitter that it didn't keep on going when it was down at 7ish if I remember right. Oh right, the "I'll maybe pick up a few shares when it hits $1-2 next week" people....
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Apr 20, 2010 22:52
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It's funny how this thread swings towards cockiness when the market has been friendly and it falls silent when the market turns nasty.
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Apr 20, 2010 23:10
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Wow, saw AAPL up nearly $20 in after hours. Its now up $12.
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Apr 21, 2010 00:08
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greasyhands posted:It's funny how this thread swings towards cockiness when the market has been friendly and it falls silent when the market turns nasty. You must have missed the FAZ days when we had like two pages a day on that drat ETF...
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Apr 21, 2010 00:28
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I apologize in advance if this question has been answered in the thread or OP already. I also apologize if the question is incredibly stupid because I don't know much about trading. I've been hearing rumblings in the news that China may unpeg the Yuan from the dollar (although this might just be groundless rumors). If I were to assume this were going to happen in the near future, what would be the best way to capitalize on this? Can I invest in the Yuan directly via an online trading account (I currently use TD Ameritrade)? The closest I could find to doing this was the WisdomTree Dreyfus Chinese Yuan Fund (CYB) which is an ETF that "seeks to achieve total returns reflective of both money market rates in China available to foreign investors and changes in value of the Chinese Yuan relative to the U.S. dollar." Would it be better to invest in some sort of Chinese Mutual Fund, or maybe even directly in a Chinese stock? In short, what is the easiest and most straightforward way to place a bet that the Yuan will appreciate against the dollar in the near future?
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Apr 21, 2010 01:34
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Bought apple at various prices, 205, 238, 246, 247. Made the choice to sell at 251 in afterhours trading Hope it drops a bit tomorrow so I can get back in.
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Apr 21, 2010 01:42
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I don't know why you're sad about getting 251
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Apr 21, 2010 01:53
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bleepstreet posted:Bought apple at various prices, 205, 238, 246, 247. Made the choice to sell at 251 in afterhours trading Get back in anyway, it's gonna keep moving for a while. Also I got in in the 60s 
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Apr 21, 2010 01:56
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BNVI is up 40% in afterhours, mwaahaha.
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Apr 21, 2010 02:57
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You're really loving annoying. God of Evil Cows posted:In short, what is the easiest and most straightforward way to place a bet that the Yuan will appreciate against the dollar in the near future? Go nuts. Keep in mind that you're not the only person betting on the possibility of a possibly-kinda-sorta floating Yuan. And that ETFs based on swaps act differently from what you might expect.
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Apr 21, 2010 03:22
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I WANT TO EAT BABBY posted:Go nuts. Keep in mind that you're not the only person betting on the possibility of a possibly-kinda-sorta floating Yuan. And that ETFs based on swaps act differently from what you might expect. Explain this to me like I'm an idiot, because I am an idiot. As best I understand these EFTs, the value of the EFT is largely(?) tied to the relative value of the Yuan to the dollar, which is why the price of that wisdom tree EFT has remained stable. If the value of the Yuan goes up relative to the dollar, wouldn't the value of the EFT go up as well? How does the fact that a lot of people are betting on the possibility of a kinda-sorta floating Yuan affect this?
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Apr 21, 2010 04:07
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God of Evil Cows posted:Explain this to me like I'm an idiot, because I am an idiot. As best I understand these EFTs, the value of the EFT is largely(?) tied to the relative value of the Yuan to the dollar, which is why the price of that wisdom tree EFT has remained stable. If the value of the Yuan goes up relative to the dollar, wouldn't the value of the EFT go up as well? How does the fact that a lot of people are betting on the possibility of a kinda-sorta floating Yuan affect this? I started a thread about ETF structures but it wasn't very popular. They can be annoyingly complicated, particularly the currency and commodity funds. Post more questions here or PM me if you want. I'm absolutely not someone from whom you should take financial advice but will try to help if I can. I'll also admit when I don't know something.
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Apr 21, 2010 04:22
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I WANT TO EAT BABBY posted:I started a thread about ETF structures but it wasn't very popular. They can be annoyingly complicated, particularly the currency and commodity funds. Post more questions here or PM me if you want. I'm absolutely not someone from whom you should take financial advice but will try to help if I can. I'll also admit when I don't know something. Thanks for the link. The OP went a little over my head, but I at least got the bit that ETFs attempt to reflect the value of the underlying asset, but don't always due to insanely complicated financial stuff that I can't hope to understand.
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Apr 21, 2010 04:45
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greasyhands posted:It's funny how this thread swings towards cockiness when the market has been friendly and it falls silent when the market turns nasty.  Selling some MAY GE calls at strike 19 tomorrow. I predict stagnation in the stock price, or maybe even slight pullbacks, so I want downward protection. I'm still bullish in the long run, though. Not 100% confident this is the right decision. GE's stock price still is recovering. Earnings beat estimates, revenue didn't. GE capital is stable again, I think, which is good. They took a loss in discontinued operations, mostly within GE capital so I'm kinda wondering what services they cut out. It's good that they're shedding bulk, and I take it as a positive sign. The bulls are nuts right now, not sure mediocre news is going to stop them. But a lot of stocks have recovered to where they were before the crash...others have gone further and I don't think our current economic situation warrants things to keep skyrocketing without a pullback. Earnings and revenues are still off, unemployment, foreign debt problems, massive government spending, state budget deficits, etc. Looking at things like steel based companies and etfs, and ge, their stock prices hasn't fully recovered, but I'm concerned about bad sentiment when things that look totally overbought right now start pulling back. Of course, I'm probably totally wrong and GE will be 25/share next month somehow. SSH IT ZOMBIE fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Apr 21, 2010 |
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Apr 21, 2010 06:18
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SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:Of course, I'm probably totally wrong and GE will be 25/share next month somehow. option time
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Apr 21, 2010 09:25
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I have a  newbie question about margins and settlement dates -- this is my first time using a non-Sharebuilder broker, so I don't know what the gently caress.Zecco has this thing called "buying power", which does not reflect stock sales until after the settlement date (Google suggests this is common in "real" brokers). However, accounts with margin privileges have their buying power updated immediately after the sale is executed. If I get a margin account, and buy stock immediately after selling something else, is that operating on margin? Will I have to pay interest on it? What's the risk that the sale doesn't "settle" and Zecco comes after me for the full amount?
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Apr 21, 2010 20:06
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That's odd, even in my non-margin account, I can immediately use the credit from the stocks I sell provided that I don't sell the newly purchased items before the settlement date of the first sale. The risk that one of your sales not settling is pretty much nil, afaik.
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Apr 21, 2010 20:15
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Recently in the news it has been bubbling about how Israel would consider attacking Iran even without United States support if Iran continues to try and develop their Nuclear program. In the completely minuscule chance that Israel does indeed invade Iran, what effect would it have on the oil market and stocks from companies originating in Iran in general? Would oil go up because of choked supply yet Iranian oil companies go down due to an inability to deliver their product? If this does happen, what would be some good competing stocks to invest in versus Iran, and what Iranian stocks would likely suffer the most? Sorry if this seems a bit preemptive or terribly stupid, it was only a passing thought that I can't seem to find any answers for myself.
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Apr 22, 2010 01:39
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ReD_XIII posted:Recently in the news it has been bubbling about how Israel would consider attacking Iran even without United States support if Iran continues to try and develop their Nuclear program. In the completely minuscule chance that Israel does indeed invade Iran, what effect would it have on the oil market and stocks from companies originating in Iran in general? Would oil go up because of choked supply yet Iranian oil companies go down due to an inability to deliver their product? If this does happen, what would be some good competing stocks to invest in versus Iran, and what Iranian stocks would likely suffer the most? Sorry if this seems a bit preemptive or terribly stupid, it was only a passing thought that I can't seem to find any answers for myself. If this were to happen, the entire middle east would go apeshit and would likely hurt any oil companies who draw their supply from this area of the world. And yes, it would also increase oil prices substantially until the supply issue was dealt with, which would likely result in companies whose supply comes from elsewhere putting up some very nice numbers indeed. I can't help you with finding which oil companies would benefit the most, though.
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Apr 22, 2010 06:48
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ReD_XIII posted:What would be some good competing stocks to invest in versus Iran. Any oil company who doesn't drill anywhere near the middle east I imagine. Nighthawk Energy, Empyrean Energy and Regal Petroleum all operate in politically stable countries.
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Apr 22, 2010 07:44
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Built 4 Cuban Linux posted:Get back in anyway, it's gonna keep moving for a while. I didn't even know it went that low. poo poo... and I thought I did pretty well picking it up at $93 a year and a half ago. I've missed you stock picking thread. Recent acquired some more funds, so I'm back in the game again. I have a few days of research ahead of me to get caught up though. Haven't really been paying much attention to the market. Also, gently caress you GS. Gotta love those -$1000 days.
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Apr 22, 2010 17:02
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CenturyTel to buy Qwest for $10.6 billion They're stealing my company.
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Apr 22, 2010 17:16
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Argh, bastards. Qualcomm: Hey guys, earnings and income are up! Cell phone prices are coming down and we're going to see some competition. Investors: Holy poo poo!!!! Competition?! SELL SELL SELL *stock tanks 8%* Riiight. What people fail to realize is more and more people are going to be buying smartphones. Prices coming down is only natural. I'm bitter, and I kinda thought that the fact there's tough competition is common sense. SSH IT ZOMBIE fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Apr 22, 2010 |
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Apr 22, 2010 17:54
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I thought NFLX, why would it skyrocket repeatedly again thought I at 60..
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Apr 22, 2010 18:45
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Dr. Jackal posted:I thought NFLX, why would it skyrocket repeatedly again thought I at 60.. Huh?
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