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...of SCIENCE! posted:When you get to the helipad talk to the shifty mechanic a few times, then go all the way back and talk to Everett (who says he doesn't know the mechanic), then talk to the engineer again and call his bluff. He should attack you or flee and then after killing him you can warn Jock about A BOMB. Or you can just kill him without doing all that, which is what I did the first time around. Jock asks why JC killed the mechanic, and he basically shrugs it off and doesn't give a poo poo. Only then do we discover the bomb. JC is the luckiest motherfucker in the world sometimes. e: f,b Hard Clumping fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Apr 19, 2010 |
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Apr 19, 2010 21:01
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Angry Diplomat posted:It's a bit hard to describe, but I'd really enjoyed chatting with the various characters and taken an interest in their motivations. Yeah, that's something Deus Ex did really well. Despite all the spoken parts of the game, there's not really much filler at all. Almost everything you hear is unique and interesting to listen to, and you always feel like you learned something relevant after listening in on it. Sure beats the hell out of hearing "How about them dang mudcrabs!" every 30 seconds.
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Apr 19, 2010 21:01
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The best part w/r/t helipad shenanigans is if you just flat out kill the shifty guy THEN go back to talk to Everett, he and JC have a short convo which basically amounts to "Paranoia grows on you" and Everett mentions how JC's starting to think like he does. IIRC. I gotta play through again.
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Apr 19, 2010 21:06
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Hard Clumping posted:Or you can just kill him without doing all that, which is what I did the first time around. Jock asks why JC killed the mechanic, and he basically shrugs it off and doesn't give a poo poo. Only then do we discover the bomb. JC is the luckiest motherfucker in the world sometimes. Yeah, I love how his attitude is basically, "I dunno, I just didn't like his face I guess," because by this point he's already done so much crazy poo poo that shooting some random guy in the head is like going to the fridge for a sandwich. I've been having a lot of fun discovering content and dialogue that I never saw during my previous playthroughs. In the Underworld Bar, I murdered the reporter, Joe Greene, after talking to him and promptly forgot about it. Then JC got subjected to this "you are so hosed if you do that again" speech from Manderley, apologizing profusely and trying to stammer out explanations all the while. Awesome, awesome game.
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Apr 19, 2010 21:08
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Kitfox88 posted:The best part w/r/t helipad shenanigans is if you just flat out kill the shifty guy THEN go back to talk to Everett, he and JC have a short convo which basically amounts to "Paranoia grows on you" and Everett mentions how JC's starting to think like he does. IIRC. I gotta play through again.
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Apr 19, 2010 21:09
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Hard Clumping posted:Or you can just kill him without doing all that, which is what I did the first time around. Jock asks why JC killed the mechanic, and he basically shrugs it off and doesn't give a poo poo. Only then do we discover the bomb. JC is the luckiest motherfucker in the world sometimes. Maybe, but the little conversation with Everett is pretty great. JC: I came to ask about your mechanic... Everett: Oh, you mean Pierre? JC: Pierre?! He doesn't sound French... 
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Apr 19, 2010 21:11
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Like another poster in this thread, I've come to realize that I would also pay like $100 for this game to be exactly remade in the Unreal 3 engine, but with modernized graphics, animations, and maybe a streamlined (not simpler in complexity, just more intuitive in usage) augmentation and resource system. Also, I wonder if it would be possible to import some Unreal Tournament weapons into the game. Has anybody ever tried that?
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Apr 19, 2010 21:14
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GreatGreen posted:Like another poster in this thread, I've come to realize that I would also pay like $100 for this game to be exactly remade in the Unreal 3 engine, but with modernized graphics, animations, and maybe a streamlined (not simpler in complexity, just more intuitive in usage) augmentation and resource system. I'd pay full price for that, but only if they somehow added in a separate plot arc in which you choose to stay with UNATCO and eventually work your way into MJ12. They'd need the original voice actors, though, because the game just wouldn't be as great without JC's emotionless deadpan. The one thing that always really bothered me about Deus Ex was the fact that JC just drops everything for Paul, despite the moral dilemma staring him in the face. Maybe it's possible that security really is worth more than freedom. Maybe a one-world government would be the most effective way to minimize crime and ensure a reasonably safe, happy life for the average wage-slave. Such an opportunity, missed 
Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Apr 19, 2010 |
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Apr 19, 2010 21:17
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Xander77 posted:Huh. I wonder how it compares to a similar conversation in the graveyard Oh I may have mentally confused those two in my head now I'm not so sure. 
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Apr 19, 2010 21:35
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Hard Clumping posted:Or you can just kill him without doing all that, which is what I did the first time around. Jock asks why JC killed the mechanic, and he basically shrugs it off and doesn't give a poo poo. Only then do we discover the bomb. JC is the luckiest motherfucker in the world sometimes. I killed him after finding the body of the real mechanic. Better safe than sorry.
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Apr 19, 2010 21:40
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Stump Truck posted:My favorite gimmick on playthroughs is when you go to the NSF headquarters you riot prod every UNATCO trooper in the base without being seen before you even transmit the message. Then you send the message, Simmons tells you that the troops are ordered to kill you and you just run and fly off the roof completely scott-free.
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Apr 19, 2010 21:41
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Angry Diplomat posted:The one thing that always really bothered me about Deus Ex was the fact that JC just drops everything for Paul, despite the moral dilemma staring him in the face. Maybe it's possible that security really is worth more than freedom. Maybe a one-world government would be the most effective way to minimize crime and ensure a reasonably safe, happy life for the average wage-slave. Such an opportunity, missed
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Apr 19, 2010 21:42
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Xander77 posted:You might like the endings for IW better then. The only good thing about IW is that it ended. Also, mantling.
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Apr 19, 2010 21:43
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Angry Diplomat posted:I'd pay full price for that, but only if they somehow added in a separate plot arc in which you choose to stay with UNATCO and eventually work your way into MJ12. They'd need the original voice actors, though, because the game just wouldn't be as great without JC's emotionless deadpan. Be careful where you go with that thinking; it's what led to Deus Ex: Invisible War, where they give you the ability to side with whomever you want, but then in the end make such choices meaningless. Yes, it would be nice for the character to be able to sell out Paul and continue working for the Coalition, but that'd progress to an entirely different game. It'd be possible to contrive alternate objectives (infiltrate X-51, re-secure the Ocean Lab) but I'm not convinced there's a compelling story there. At least not without a massive expansion of the game.
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Apr 19, 2010 21:47
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This conversation would be a nice opportunity to remind everyone that Alpha Protocol's coming out in a little over a month. It's the only game I've seen in a long time that looks like it'll come anywhere close to trying what Deus Ex did.
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Apr 19, 2010 21:51
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Velius posted:Be careful where you go with that thinking; it's what led to Deus Ex: Invisible War, where they give you the ability to side with whomever you want, but then in the end make such choices meaningless. Yes, it would be nice for the character to be able to sell out Paul and continue working for the Coalition, but that'd progress to an entirely different game. It'd be possible to contrive alternate objectives (infiltrate X-51, re-secure the Ocean Lab) but I'm not convinced there's a compelling story there. At least not without a massive expansion of the game. Actually I think the game would be a lot shorter.
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Apr 19, 2010 21:59
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Velius posted:Be careful where you go with that thinking; This is amusingly ironic in the context of Deus Ex  IW was a product of many things, but I'm not sure if an excessively ambitious plot was one of them. The reason the original is still such a fantastic game is that it combines a fun, interesting gameplay experience with a well fleshed-out world and an intriguing plot full of twists and turns. Watering down the content in order to give the player more variety to choose from is certainly a bad design decision, yes, but that also isn't the only way to provide an interesting alternate storyline. You're most likely right that it would have to be a significant expansion to the core game, but I do disagree if you feel there wouldn't be a compelling story in an alternate, UNATCO-friendly playthrough. It would be interesting to see JC wrestle with his conscience as he becomes more and more aware of the truths behind the whole conspiracy, but continues fighting the terrorists anyway because sustainable tyranny is preferable to apocalyptic anarchy.
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Apr 19, 2010 22:00
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How did IW justify you going to the same levels in-game no matter your loyalty? Was it as contrived as it sounds?
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Apr 19, 2010 22:07
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Deus Ex is the reason you can't kill kids in games anymore
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Apr 19, 2010 22:14
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GreatGreen posted:Sure beats the hell out of hearing "How about them dang mudcrabs!" every 30 seconds. Maybe there's a talking mudcrab somewhere in Deus Ex. This game has EVERYTHING. Does anyone's quick saves ever not take sometimes and you end up having to replay through segments of the game? This will happen to me from time to time and it's the only mildly frustrating thing about Deus Ex to me.
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Apr 19, 2010 22:14
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:How did IW justify you going to the same levels in-game no matter your loyalty? Was it as contrived as it sounds? Well basically loyalties in IW never mattered or made a difference until the very end of the game when you could pull a 180 on what you had been doing the whole time anyway
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Apr 19, 2010 22:16
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:How did IW justify you going to the same levels in-game no matter your loyalty? Was it as contrived as it sounds?
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Apr 19, 2010 22:16
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:How did IW justify you going to the same levels in-game no matter your loyalty? Every location you go to had some significance for each group you can work for at the time (everyone wants this special technology, etc.), so it's not quite as ham-fisted as it sounds.
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Apr 19, 2010 22:18
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IW had a really stupid bug relating to that too. If you cut the power at Mako, which was about a thousand times easier if Sid flew you there instead of Ava, the Magrail scientist would disappear so in order to continue you were stuck working for the WTO... not that it mattered the second you set foot in Cairo. Speaking of Mako, who routes the entire primary power supply to their top-secret research facility through an un-guarded power box on the roof?
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Apr 19, 2010 22:25
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Xander77 posted:A tad. Every faction in the game was after the same objectives, for different reasons. The contrived part was the way the ending - the protagonist joining one of the four sides - was determined by his actions in the final 20 minutes of the game, disregarding everything that came before that. Eh, to be fair, that applies to 90% of games with multiple endings in general, good or bad. It's stupid, mind you, but it isn't like it is a stupidity exclusive to IW.
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Apr 19, 2010 22:25
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it was fun that "kill every faction leader for no good reason" was a possible ending though
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Apr 19, 2010 22:39
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Fag Boy Jim posted:it was fun that "kill every faction leader for no good reason" was a possible ending though The Omar were the coolest part about that game.
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Apr 19, 2010 22:47
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I can see that things don't respawn in this game. What would happen if you just murdered everything and everyone you came across? What kind of ending would you get?
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Apr 19, 2010 23:03
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Fag Boy Jim posted:it was fun that "kill every faction leader for no good reason" was a possible ending though yeah i really like the fact that it is left unclear whether or not your fellow former recruit was either a perfect unwitting pawn of the omar or a stone cold master of manipulation who convinced you to do exactly what his faction wanted you to do with a facade of exasperation and petulance. but gently caress that pilot seriously
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Apr 19, 2010 23:06
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Pentheus posted:yeah i really like the fact that it is left unclear whether or not your fellow former recruit was either a perfect unwitting pawn of the omar or a stone cold master of manipulation who convinced you to do exactly what his faction wanted you to do with a facade of exasperation and petulance. i dont really care, i just wanted all those morons to die for wasting my time it was a nice way to work out my frustrations with the game
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Apr 19, 2010 23:07
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Xander77 posted:A tad. Every faction in the game was after the same objectives, for different reasons. The contrived part was the way the ending - the protagonist joining one of the four sides - was determined by his actions in the final 20 minutes of the game, disregarding everything that came before that. To be fair, DX1 works this way too. The only difference is that JC's actions in the previous levels don't commit him to any of the sides. A DX mod where the player gets to stay loyal to UNATCO and crush the NSF/Silhouette/X-51/triads could be cool if done right. Cardboard Fox posted:I can see that things don't respawn in this game. What would happen if you just murdered everything and everyone you came across? What kind of ending would you get? CaptainWinky fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Apr 19, 2010 |
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Apr 19, 2010 23:08
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isn't it possible to leave the NSF base without transmitting the signal and trigger the raid? honestly they had a tough problem in solving the "player must betray UNATCO" thing and they did it pretty well, dx was good at pretending you were in control of the plot
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Apr 19, 2010 23:09
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Cardboard Fox posted:I can see that things don't respawn in this game. What would happen if you just murdered everything and everyone you came across? What kind of ending would you get? Every key plot related character has SUPER INVINCIBILTY and can't be killed until they're no longer relevant. Otherwise, there's nothing to stop you from blowing every other living being (and non living item) to kingdom come.
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Apr 19, 2010 23:10
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CaptainWinky posted:A DX mod where the player gets to stay loyal to UNATCO and crush the NSF/Silhouette/X-51/triads could be cool if done right.
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Apr 19, 2010 23:16
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Meliv posted:Deus Ex is the reason you can't kill kids in games anymore Casimir Radon fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Apr 20, 2010 |
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Apr 19, 2010 23:33
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I can tell them you are a spy, and they will kill you. i think i even killed that little poo poo on my non-lethal playthrough
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Apr 19, 2010 23:33
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CaptainWinky posted:The story-critical characters get a "plot forcefield" that prevents you from killing them. At least in DX you could usually shoot them and then you'd die or whatever. So sure, it was kind of a false choice but at least you always had the capability even if the game railroaded you into not doing it. The same thing is hilariously bad in DXIW. "Oh sorry you're going into an area with plot critical characters.... Gonna need you to let us remotely disable your weapons, since there is no way a bioaugmented agent could ever kill anyone with their bare hands or anything. Yeah we promise to re-enable them later. Don't mind us." As if somehow in the five years since DX1 to 2 or whatever every single weapon in existence was destroyed to be replaced by convenient Big Brother Guns. Curiously, none of the armed factions fighting one another even attempted to find out how to use this capability 'in the field' as a weapon of its own, as it were. Or you couldn't just bypass the security guard, or bribe him to let you keep your guns online, or smuggle weapons inside by bribing a dude outside the vent shaft or whatever. IW was terrible.
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Apr 19, 2010 23:38
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Psion posted:At least in DX you could usually shoot them and then you'd die or whatever. So sure, it was kind of a false choice but at least you always had the capability even if the game railroaded you into not doing it. The same thing is hilariously bad in DXIW. "Oh sorry you're going into an area with plot critical characters.... Gonna need you to let us remotely disable your weapons, since there is no way a bioaugmented agent could ever kill anyone with their bare hands or anything. Yeah we promise to re-enable them later. Don't mind us." One of the few character-killing things DXIW did right was late in the game where you meet the real NG Resonance and can kill her, then tell the NG AI about it. For just a few minutes I felt like Alex Denton had truly inherited JC's Supreme rear end in a top hat genes.
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Apr 19, 2010 23:43
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Fag Boy Jim posted:I can tell them you are a spy, and they will kill you. And to think, the devs didn't even have the decency to give the kid any toys or anything (or parents) for you to ruin in front of him right before wasting the little brat. Wow, that was mean. I don't even know if JC would be that mean... even at the height of his meanness.
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Apr 19, 2010 23:44
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Psion posted:At least in DX you could usually shoot them and then you'd die or whatever. So sure, it was kind of a false choice but at least you always had the capability even if the game railroaded you into not doing it. "Why wouldn't the faction just use their invincible agents to kill every grunt on the other side"?
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Apr 19, 2010 23:46
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