|
Thanks for the info. The one I may be involved in is for someone who has won a few Grammy Awards over the last few years, if that makes a difference. I guess it all comes down to what they want.
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2010 22:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 19:31 |
|
|
Gromit posted:I guess it all comes down to what they want. And how much they're willing to spend. Some director may write a great treatment, but the average budget for music videos is pretty low and highly relative to the artist's ability to pay and the label's willingness to pony up if the artist can't. I've worked on music videos for A-list musicians, and I'd wager the budget was under $10k for two videos in 2 days back to back.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2010 00:51
|
|
|
Anyone know offhand or can guess what the camera package usually used on house costs? I'm doing a short essay on the season finale being shot on a 5D.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2010 05:31
|
|
|
Slim Pickens posted:Anyone know offhand or can guess what the camera package usually used on house costs? I'm doing a short essay on the season finale being shot on a 5D. I'd be interested in reading your essay when you're done by the way. Hope this helps.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2010 06:57
|
|
|
Steadiman I think he's talking specifically about the season finale which was shot on the 5D. So no film. The 5D MkII will run about $550 per day not including lenses. I think they used both prime and zoom lenses, mostly zooms (I was surprised to hear this), I think they used PL mount lenses with an adaptor. These lenses could run up to $1500 - $2500 per day. The whole kit with no special discounts might be $3500 (which is the same as Steadiman's estimate, but I think they used a LOT of lenses) There is a twitter feed somewhere by the DP who lists the lenses he used, sorry I don't know where it is. Now another question would be if you include Steadicam, sticks and whatnot in to that as well. Also are you including the camera crew too? Hope that helps. :/
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2010 07:18
|
|
|
I was gonna base overall cost of a typical setup to the Canon 5D setup, and made an estimate that the camera and lenses was probably under 10 grand for the canon. If rental is the typical approach, I'll go with that. As far as lenses go, it was in his twitter feed.quote:Among the questions posed were on lenses used--"[A]ll primes and zooms made by canon for speed we often stayed on the 24-70&70-200." Not sure why he decided to go for that look, but I guess we'll see the results on may 17th. As for the article, it's pretty much a one-page thing I'm throwing together in a day, and I don't think it'll really expand much past what's been discussed here already. If you want, though, I can still put it up when it's finished.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2010 09:11
|
|
|
Slim Pickens posted:I was gonna base overall cost of a typical setup to the Canon 5D setup, and made an estimate that the camera and lenses was probably under 10 grand for the canon. If rental is the typical approach, I'll go with that. As far as lenses go, it was in his twitter feed. I'm interested in reading your article, besides it will generate some more posts for this thread  . So go ahead and post it!Also, Squaredog, why were you surprised they used zooms? They're great for fastpaced productions where there's just not much time to block shots and decide on primes. Most tv drama relies heavily on zooms, usually only switching to primes for Steadicam/crane-jib/handheld to lighten the load.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2010 12:18
|
|
|
Steadiman posted:Maybe some DP's will buy a camera (body) with a basic lens set for low budget stuff, especially with RED nowadays, but rarely will you find someone who owns a kit as complete as a rental house can offer. So I did an experiment last month, I posted a fake ad on craigslist calling for a DP. The results were interesting but I'll just share this tidbit. I received over 100 responses mostly in the first 24 hours. The most surprising thing I found was that the VAST MAJORITY of DP's out there have AT LEAST one camera kit they offered up. I had assumed that nearly all "real" DP's wouldn't own anything but a light meter, a laser and some gaffer's glass but it was not the case. "Sure", you may think, "But that's craigslist, full of hacks!" I did see some really terrible reels but there were a large number of these applicants who sounded very qualified and had very good reels. I still think a real DP doesn't need to own a camera, but it seems that a lot of them do. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2010 17:20
|
|
|
SquareDog posted:I still think a real DP doesn't need to own a camera, but it seems that a lot of them do. I remember seeing some discussion a few months ago where people were arguing over gear ownership and inclusive rentals. I've seen the trend grow where DP's buy cameras to help their employability, but I don't think that's a new trend. 5 years ago when I was interning at Panavision, I remember meeting DP's who owned SR3's, F900's, etc. They still came in to accessorize their package with missing parts: lenses, specialized support gear, additional batteries, etc. However, I think what's changed is that before people worked their way up, grew contacts, and then bought a camera package to increase their DP workload. Lately, people seem to get out of school or take a few classes, buy a camera, start calling themselves a DP immediately and build experience that way. Works for some people, but it's a low success rate. I'm still a baby in this industry's eyes, but I think the "film is hard to get into" mindset comes from the fact that, typically, the most talented people work their way up. Maybe they buy a RED, maybe they buy a Varicam or even an Arri 435. However, they do so because they have a client list eager to work with that DP, and that client list comes from years of relationship building. Maybe they convince a few other jobs to use their camera. Otherwise, that DP who just spent many years bringing work to this camera house and that G&E house go back, get some deals and discounts when possible, and shoot what's right. So, I think you're right: a real DP doesn't need to own a camera. However, in the end, film business is still business, and if I can maximize my business' total worth by owning a camera so I can offer to rent it to a production cheaper than the local houses, then I'll do so. The gear shouldn't make the DP, and it's hard not to get frustrated when you're doing the "right" thing while others are shooting because they own a RED.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2010 01:33
|
|
|
SquareDog posted:So I did an experiment last month, I posted a fake ad on craigslist calling for a DP. The results were interesting but I'll just share this tidbit. Please don't ever do this again. This is a recession, it's nothing more than an rear end in a top hat move to post a job listing that you have no intention of hiring someone for, even if it is for *science* quote:I still think a real DP doesn't need to own a camera, but it seems that a lot of them do. A real DP DOESN'T need to own a camera, but in this day and age it is difficult (nigh-impossible) to get the experience you need to be a working DP WITHOUT going your own route with your own equipment, or you spend 40 years working your way up the ladder (in which you'll still no-doubt be passed by DPs who invest in their own gear simply because that gives them more time/opportunities to get practice and reel work done) Personally, I never owned a camera until I graduated from film school, some drunk driver hit me and totaled the car, so I used the money to buy an HVX-200 and took as many gigs as I could, free or not, to build my reel. With a solid reel and years of experience and network connections there's not a need for anyone to actually *own* this camera anymore, but if I want to get more regular work (including so many LAST-MINUTE!!!! gigs that like to appear) it's good to have something you can grab anytime to start shooting. bassguitarhero fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 29, 2010 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2010 16:35
|
|
|
infiniteseal posted:Please don't ever do this again. This is a recession, it's nothing more than an rear end in a top hat move to post a job listing that you have no intention of hiring someone for, even if it is for *science* I completely disagree. I have different RSS searches linked to different boilerplates, it takes me maybe 10 seconds to tailor a cover letter to an ad. It's really no skin off my nose if someone is just doing research. Who knows, maybe he'll like my reel and remember me when he's hiring.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2010 17:32
|
|
|
I generally expect nothing from all Craigslist ads. It's just easier.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2010 18:54
|
|
|
Yeah Like I said I got over 100 responses and even if it were real I would have only picked one so to me it's not a big deal. Besides I plan on making a list of resume/reel/website do's and don't's based on my research to help other DPs. vvvvvvvv I'm not gonna get in a fight with you about this. I have nothing more to say on it. SquareDog fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Apr 29, 2010 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2010 19:39
|
|
|
If you want to make a list then post for a list but don't post a job posting. This is a small network and having a lack of appreciation for other people's time doesn't make for good karma. Evenifits 10 seconds off someone back, you would be better served not faking out other professionals for your own edification
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2010 20:07
|
|
|
I'm putting together a proposal to shoot a TV commercial for a local pizza joint. Is $6k a reasonable bid amount?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2010 05:14
|
|
|
1st AD posted:I'm putting together a proposal to shoot a TV commercial for a local pizza joint. Is $6k a reasonable bid amount? Depends on the treatment. Are you just shooting the location? Do you have a gag or narrative? Shooting somewhere not the pizza joint?
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2010 01:09
|
|
|
It's pretty much along the lines a family enjoying pizza in their home (though the kids are bringing pizza to the parents instead of vice-versa).
1st AD fucked around with this message at 03:24 on May 2, 2010 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2010 03:22
|
|
|
"reasonable" can mean different things to different people. Is it a fair price? Assuming your quality is top notch, then yeah. But what are they ezpecting? I've seen clients spend 3 months trying to get a bid under $3k and for what? Part of deliverig your bid is knowing how they'll react. If you think they'll bite then go for it, but without knowing what they canafford and what you can provide it's not really answerable
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2010 04:33
|
|
|
SquareDog posted:The 5D MkII will run about $550 per day not including lenses.  The $550/day includes all the video-centric accessories, right? On film, my boss gave me a bag of 59 rolls of color 35mm/36exp film, that Googling has revealed has been cut down from spare movie stock. It's process ECN-2, which isn't compatible with regular C-41. There are a couple of labs I read about that will process it, but at $5/roll + 2 way shipping I'd rather just shoot Ektar 100 and get it developed at CVS. I've heard you can get pretty much anything processed through Walmart send out (they contract it out to pro labs), but wanted to know what, if any, my other options were. Would places that process movie film be able to do 35mm cannisters for a reasonable rate, or is the machinery only going to be set up for dealing with big reels?
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2010 14:49
|
|
|
Okay, just got done with a meeting with the musician that I talked about at the bottom of the previous page, and they'll want us to come up with the whole treatment, and film it in stop-motion animation. It's not like they are handing us a script, just the song lyrics to go by. I presume you charge more for design as well, rather than just filming what they tell you to? Or is it expected that you'll come up with stuff on the fly?
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2010 22:34
|
|
|
Gromit posted:Okay, just got done with a meeting with the musician that I talked about at the bottom of the previous page, and they'll want us to come up with the whole treatment, and film it in stop-motion animation. It's not like they are handing us a script, just the song lyrics to go by. Sort of, yes. The music video companies I work with typically don't charge a fee for the treatment, but they do negotiate that the treatment is contractually bound and the property of the company. Therefore, if the band decides they don't like the price of the video, they can't take the idea to production company B to produce unless they buy it from the company A. As such, your total bid now needs to include the cost of production design, props, stop motion animators and a director's fees. I recommend getting in touch with a production company with access to those resources. I work with one here in LA frequently, but I don't think they've ever done stop motion. I've worked with stop motion animation once before, though. The company I've worked with here in LA: http://www.robbystarbuck.com/ The stop motion animation commercial I worked on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx_mpuhyYts
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2010 23:34
|
|
|
I'm also very proud to show off the first trailer from the feature I shot in March, 2010 called "The Comedian at the Friday". We shot for 4 weeks, 5 day weeks, on the RED One with Arri Ultra Primes. Really unique experience. Feedback is appreciated, cinematography or otherwise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwJnDY_EmF0
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2010 23:35
|
|
|
Tiresias posted:The stop motion animation commercial I worked on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx_mpuhyYts Thanks for the info. I'm glad you mentioned that thing about the treatment belonging to the company, as I may not have thought of that myself. Do you know how much that stop-motion ad cost to make? Or rather, what the client was billed? Just a ballpark.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2010 00:34
|
|
|
Tiresias posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwJnDY_EmF0 Wow, that trailer told me almost nothing about the film, though I do feel well-acquainted with the main character.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2010 01:03
|
|
|
Magic Hate Ball posted:Wow, that trailer told me almost nothing about the film, though I do feel well-acquainted with the main character. Yea, second comment I've received with that note. I'm going to forward it to the editor and director, just to see their reaction. Could be that this is more of a teaser, and a real trailer is coming soon. Gromit posted:Thanks for the info. I'm glad you mentioned that thing about the treatment belonging to the company, as I may not have thought of that myself. I don't know the overall budget on the project, just my rate. We shot on several 5D mk2's, practically no electric gear, just some grip gear, a very full art department and the stop motion animators. Tiresias fucked around with this message at 04:21 on May 3, 2010 |
|
#
?
May 3, 2010 04:18
|
|
|
Tiresias posted:I don't know the overall budget on the project, just my rate. We shot on several 5D mk2's, practically no electric gear, just some grip gear, a very full art department and the stop motion animators. That doesn't sound too cheap at all.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2010 04:30
|
|
|
Really excited to see this thread! I helped start the Filmie Filmakers forum back in the day before it got shut down, it just never had the traffic. I've been working in the industry for a few years as a Greensman (kudos to anyone who knows what this is), as a means to an end. I started my own production company in November, bought myself a Panasonic HPX-170 and a Letus Extreme. Shot my first music video (http://vimeo.com/7540507 go ahead and slam it). I hate the first 10 seconds but was pretty happy with it on our $1000 budget. I worked at the Olympics over winter doing other things and have just started working on a few features out here in Vancouver, so I'm in the market for more camera gear. I'm looking at buying the Manfrotto 516 head with some legs for around $750 used, along with an indiSlider Deluxe to get some nice simple movement going on, big fan of the subtle movement or simple dolly shots. Also just shot our first paid video yesterday, a promo for a local coffee shop, got some nice shots in there. I'm going to a buddies to edit it later today, I'll post some sample footage soon, always looking for some feedback. On that note, whats the average rate for an indie production company to charge per hour for filming, editing, etc? We've got a potential mountain biking company that wants us to come shoot for two 8 hour days, what's a good rate? Let's keep this thread alive, I'm looking forward to talking to other indie filmie goons out there.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2010 19:45
|
|
|
I got an interview with an advertising agency by replying to their Craigslist ad, which from their requirements list seemed to be for a video editor (and indeed it was listed as a full time video editor). By the time I got there it was clear they were looking for an After Effects artist, and I really wish that was made more clear in the posting or over the phone before I got there 
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2010 00:18
|
|
|
Avid skills always come in handy.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2010 00:32
|
|
|
No one I've talked to has ever been impressed that I know Avid. EDIT: I should clarify but saying that no one I know has ever had the need for anyone who knows Avid such as myself.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2010 02:02
|
|
|
Alright, finally wrapped up that short paper on Yaitanes using a 5D for House. Let me know if it's alright or if I'm talking out of my rear end on most of it. Technology is changing not only the way we watch television, but also the way it’s produced. Just two weeks ago Greg Yaitanes, the series director of House M.D., said on twitter that the season finale of the award-winning show was shot entirely on a Canon 5D mkII, a full-frame DSLR(digital single-lens reflective) camera that is able to capture video in 1080P. Why is this significant? The Canon 5D with lens only costs $3300 brand new, and the entire lens package Yaitanes shot with was under $10,000. The typical studio set up, shooting on 35mm film, costs about $3600 a day just to rent. Many see the new technology as the next big thing. Director Yaitanes said on his twitter, “[I] loved it and feel it’s the future”. The availability of beautiful HD in a small, inexpensive package opens up the doors to several amateur directors with very small budgets. Just recently, an ad for Molson Canadian beer was aired on the winter Olympics that was shot almost entirely on a Canon 7D, a camera nearly half the price of the 5D. The small package also makes shooting on location much more discreet and less cumbersome in most cases. The new tech still has several drawbacks, however. The sensor in the 5D that captures the video is much smaller than sensors in professional video cameras. This leads to a reduction in picture quality as the camera isn’t able to capture as much information. The sensor in the 5D is also prone to vertical aliasing on quick horizontal panning shots, due to the way the camera captures video. To make the video look professional still requires all the work of a professional set as well. Audio still needs to be recorded separately, lighting still needs to be set up, and your crew is still just as big. The technology is very handy in smaller, low budget applications, but it’s still a long ways off from ever replacing a traditional recording set up. It also doesn’t change the fact that short film or documentary is only as good as its director, no matter how many pixels they fit onto the screen. The availability of high definition video to the masses has promise, even if it only promises to flood youtube with poorly shot short films.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2010 20:17
|
|
|
Trailer for the finale of House. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAaZZQhuyMo Looks soft, very soft.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2010 00:08
|
|
|
butterypancakes posted:Trailer for the finale of House. Lets rack focus across every surface. Also the camera jitter isn't distracting at all. terrible
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2010 02:39
|
|
|
By chance are there any posters that went to film school, or did most all of you just kind of jump in and learn on your own?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2010 09:00
|
|
|
Openknees posted:By chance are there any posters that went to film school, or did most all of you just kind of jump in and learn on your own? I went to film undergrad, but spent most of my time working on fellow students' projects. After I finished, I swore off grad school and went right to work. I know plenty of people who went to film school in all varieties: undergrad, big name grad school, 8 month to 1 year film school, etc.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2010 09:41
|
|
|
Slim Pickens posted:The new tech still has several drawbacks, however. The sensor in the 5D that captures the video is much smaller than sensors in professional video cameras. This leads to a reduction in picture quality as the camera isn’t able to capture as much information. The sensor in the 5D is also prone to vertical aliasing on quick horizontal panning shots, due to the way the camera captures video. To make the video look professional still requires all the work of a professional set as well. Audio still needs to be recorded separately, lighting still needs to be set up, and your crew is still just as big. The glaringly wrong thing here is that the chip is smaller than your average professional camera. Actually the 5D has a fullframe sized chip which is significantly bigger than a 35mm frame or its equal in chip size, like the Red One has. (The 7D has a reduced size chip though) The 5D/7D do have a terrible compression and require lots of post work. The aliasing issues are right on though and the rest can be called an informed prediction. butterypancakes posted:Trailer for the finale of House. That's super shallow depth of field for you, plus youtube compression smudging out the little that is in focus. I imagine it won't be so soft in a proper HD broadcast. Then again it's a bitch to focus the 5D with photo lenses and I can guess even the experienced focus pullers on House were sweating a lot and some corners had to be cut. I pulled focus on some small 5D projects and it's not a walk in the park, especially not handheld and in dimly lit shots.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2010 11:17
|
|
|
butterypancakes posted:Trailer for the finale of House. I'm wondering why they couldn't pump a little more light onto the set to stop down and cut out down on the super shallow DoF. Here's a short I was involved in recently shot entirely on my Canon 7D. 35mm f/2 and 85mm f/1.8 lenses. Turned out pretty well. http://vimeo.com/11437576
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2010 19:03
|
|
|
Not bad, a little slow maybe. I'd have done more color work to give it its own look. Pure whites, correct mids and uncrushed blacks can end up pretty bland. You should also never do anything like what you asked your actress to do at 2:37. I'm assuming that's a real knife.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2010 19:18
|
|
|
butterypancakes posted:Not bad, a little slow maybe. I'd have done more color work to give it its own look. Pure whites, correct mids and uncrushed blacks can end up pretty bland. She's my girlfriend, and a trained stage combat theater worker She knew what to do and we took precautions as far as the camera and crew go.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2010 19:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 19:31 |
|
|
ogopogo posted:I'm wondering why they couldn't pump a little more light onto the set to stop down and cut out down on the super shallow DoF. It looks okay I guess, I'd agree with bland, and story and acting are horrible.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2010 04:41
|
|
