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RobotEmpire posted:The anecdotes in this thread is why I generally seek employment in startups. I guess your experience must be way different, but every startup I've ever worked for has expected you to work longer hours for less pay in the nebulous hope that they'd be bought out. The one I work for now gave us "stock options" when we were hired to offset our lower salaries, but those can only be cashed in if we're bought out, which will never happen at the rate we're going. So basically less pay, longer hours, at an ego-driven company that is more inclined to fail. Yes, start-ups are truly the dream.
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Apr 29, 2010 15:16
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Kassoon posted:You and anyone else leaving their job should know that legally your previous employment cannot badmouth you, especially when used as a reference. The absolute worst they can do is confirm that you worked there for X amount of time and make no further comment (which is common as hell anyway at most major corporations since HR isn't going to track down your previous supervisor). moana posted:If somebody calls my previous employer as a reference, it's illegal for them to say bad poo poo about me, right?
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Apr 29, 2010 15:19
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Clamps McGraw posted:Client: No, that's nowhere near ambitious enough! My director (now ex, thank God) told me that the board wanted us to grow to a turnover of over a million quid a year. So he told me to produce a publishing plan that would do that so he could show the board. Um. We're a tiny company in a niche market. If I could raise our turnover to a million a year I loving WOULD BE DOING IT ALREADY. Never mind, he just wanted a sheet with a million quid on it. I eventually did it by adding sales of 10,000 copies of illustrated hardbacks to the sheet. We don't publish illustrated hardbacks, nor are they even remotely related to our highly specialist publishing, and if we did publish them we sure as poo poo wouldn't be shifting 10,000 units off the top, and I also completely made up the unit costs of doing illustrated hardbacks because I have no loving idea and couldn't be bothered to find out for an exercise in creative writing. But it made him happy.
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Apr 29, 2010 15:36
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kissekatt posted:Out of curiousity, how well-paid (if at all?) were the hours you put into it? I know that US tends to be rather odd when it comes to salary, but over here they would have been reamed by the costs for emergency overtime in the middle of the night. I'm in Canada, am salaried, and I got time and a half pay for it. I would have much rather preferred the sleep though. Especially since I got it done for nothing. But then I was stupid enough to answer the phone thinking it was an emergency that was actually worth answering the phone for. I'll never make that mistake again. Sir Spaniard posted:If I worked in such an environment, it's at this point that I would be firing off the resume left right and centre. If not earlier. We can't, we're all desperately trying to get out of the company. Often the department is sparsely populated because people just don't want to come in or don't see a point. The turnover in the department my manager handles is also ridiculously high. I assume my co-workers are probably going to be out of here sooner or later too whether they find better jobs or just can't take it anymore. It's just a very sad cycle and I wish this crap didn't happen to anyone. As for me, I'm moving out of the country in a few months, so I'm just staying put in the mean time to get the bills paid. Though believe me, every Thursday (for some reason Thursdays are the worst) I just want to print out my resignation and hand it in to live out the starving artist lifestyle until I move.
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Apr 29, 2010 18:56
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Solkanar512 posted:This loving blows my mind. I can't understand it either. As far as I can tell from listening to them and saying "ah" or nodding at appropriate times, they seem to act like the work ethic itself is the important part. "Well, those frenchies are lazy shits... but ME - I'VE GOT VALUES! (I WORK TO IMPROVE OUR CEO'S YACHT COLLECTION!)" I'd write it off as pure ignorance, except there's a ridiculous mental disconnect that makes me think they've all been brainwashed by AM radio. In regard to the salary differences, it's hard to get an exact comparison because the roles in the company are a bit different. Theirs is a manufacturing site with some associated office-work, while ours is a research site. If I was to compare a project lead on the research end with its corresponding manufacturing coordinator on their side of things, though, we'd see about $90K-120K versus EU65K-95K. After you deal with currency conversions, it's really not that far off of what we're getting over here. There are some differences once you compare cost of living, but it's nowhere near as far off as some people seem to think compensation is, at least within our company. The area itself isn't that expensive to live in compared to some areas in France (Tours region), and when you draw a comparison to the surprisingly expensive little bubble in the USA where our site is, the costs are fairly similar. Home ownership would be drastically more expensive in that area than here, but other than that, it's actually pretty comparable.
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Apr 29, 2010 19:06
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Dead Cow posted:All this talk about vacation time reminded me to tell you all about how my friend got fired from his job. What? How can he be denied unemployment for that? That seems a little weird to me...
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Apr 29, 2010 19:51
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Astro7x posted:What? How can he be denied unemployment for that? That seems a little weird to me... He was fired with cause I'd guess.
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Apr 29, 2010 19:54
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FakeHipster posted:He was fired with cause I'd guess. But you should be able to challenge it and get unemployment, and once it clears get all your unpaid unemployment all at once in a nice big fat check. I was fired because my boss said I couldn't meet my deadlines, I challenged it and got unemployment because I explained how the deadline was unreasonable.
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Apr 29, 2010 20:09
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I've read these posts about holiday entitlement in the USA with my eyes popping out of my head with disbelief. Is it really normal to only have 2 weeks annual holiday in the USA? Do some people really only get 5 loving DAYS holiday a year in their full-time jobs?!? There are businesses in the USA that count their employee's annual leave in HOURS?!?!!!  In the UK, every full-time employee is entitled to 28 days annual leave, minimum. That's nearly 6 weeks holiday a year! I was going to post about my own lovely corporate experiences but after reading the thread, I now realise that I'm working in Paradise compared to you poor sods in the USA. Also... in the US, employers can fire any employee, at any time and for any reason? Is that really true? it can't be, surely.
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Apr 29, 2010 20:20
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Umiapik posted:Also... in the US, employers can fire any employee, at any time and for any reason? Is that really true? it can't be, surely. Well, in Florida at least, you can be fired for no reason, as opposed to being fired for being a woman or having dark skin or being gay.
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Apr 29, 2010 20:23
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Umiapik posted:Also... in the US, employers can fire any employee, at any time and for any reason? Is that really true? it can't be, surely. Depends on the state, but most yep. At my old company, massive layoffs decimated all of the US development offices, but the offices in London and Paris were left to "reduction through attrition" because its so hard to fire you lucky bastards.
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Apr 29, 2010 20:24
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Umiapik posted:I've read these posts about holiday entitlement in the USA with my eyes popping out of my head with disbelief. Is it really normal to only have 2 weeks annual holiday in the USA? Do some people really only get 5 loving DAYS holiday a year in their full-time jobs?!? There are businesses in the USA that count their employee's annual leave in HOURS?!?!!! Someone I know just got a job at a company that gives NO vacation for the first year and two weeks a year for the next five years after that. At 6 you get 3. 
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Apr 29, 2010 20:26
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Umiapik posted:I've read these posts about holiday entitlement in the USA with my eyes popping out of my head with disbelief. Is it really normal to only have 2 weeks annual holiday in the USA? Do some people really only get 5 loving DAYS holiday a year in their full-time jobs?!? There are businesses in the USA that count their employee's annual leave in HOURS?!?!!! Makes me wish I was a teacher... 15 weeks of vacation a year and starting salary is more than what I make!
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Apr 29, 2010 20:31
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Mbwuto posted:Someone I know just got a job at a company that gives NO vacation for the first year and two weeks a year for the next five years after that. At 6 you get 3. That's the exact policy where I work. It's so hard for me to believe that this is considered normal and acceptable in the US. I even know people who have told me they wouldn't want four weeks of annual vacation because it would be boring and they wouldn't know what to do with it. Jesus Christ, you don't have to spend it in your living room staring at a wall, you know.
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Apr 29, 2010 20:35
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Umiapik posted:I've read these posts about holiday entitlement in the USA with my eyes popping out of my head with disbelief. Is it really normal to only have 2 weeks annual holiday in the USA? Do some people really only get 5 loving DAYS holiday a year in their full-time jobs?!? There are businesses in the USA that count their employee's annual leave in HOURS?!?!!! Absolutely this is normal here. It's absolutely disgusting, but for some reason, even the people given those conditions seem to think it is normal. There are no federal laws requiring any vacation days whatsoever. There are no laws requiring, for private-sector employees, that any federal holidays or religious holidays be observed / permitted to be observed. Most companies will do only the absolute bare minimum to actually retain workers relative to their immediate competition. You'll likely get Christmas and July 4th off, or at least 1.5x salary during them, for example. There *are* federal laws requiring employees, in some fields, not be allowed to use their vacation days, go on strike, or otherwise leave work at a reasonable time if it in any way inconveniences other people. (Examples: Nurses, air traffic controllers, etc.) My mother accumulates 4 hours of vacation time per week as an ultrasound technologist. It is, as a result of her medical profession, illegal for her to go on strike, take vacations in the event of any hospital-declared emergency, or leave work at all in the event of a county, state, or federally declared emergency. She was stuck at work for three days straight, full 24-hour shifts, during a major snowstorm late last year after Nassau County declared a state of emergency. Due to being salaried, no compensation was given for the event. Additionally, one woman who left at the end of her usual shift because she had a daughter at home was terminated. In almost every state in the USA, you can be fired for no reason whatsoever. There is a list of causes for which you cannot be fired (non-discriminatory stuff), but burden of proof is (in every state I know of) on the terminated employee to prove it. Additionally, some states allow the company to charge the terminated employee for their time if his court case results in subpoenas for documents or employee testimonies. The USA's employment system is hosed beyond comprehension I'm afraid. 
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Apr 29, 2010 20:43
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Umiapik posted:I've read these posts about holiday entitlement in the USA with my eyes popping out of my head with disbelief. Is it really normal to only have 2 weeks annual holiday in the USA? Do some people really only get 5 loving DAYS holiday a year in their full-time jobs?!? There are businesses in the USA that count their employee's annual leave in HOURS?!?!!! quote:Also... in the US, employers can fire any employee, at any time and for any reason? Is that really true? it can't be, surely. 
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Apr 29, 2010 20:52
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Mbwuto posted:Someone I know just got a job at a company that gives NO vacation for the first year and two weeks a year for the next five years after that. At 6 you get 3. Confirmed. My girlfriend just accepted a job at a rehabilitation and long term care home... the vacation we have planned for August will be unpaid because they don't offer any vacation time over the first year.
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Apr 29, 2010 20:58
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Astro7x posted:Makes me wish I was a teacher... 15 weeks of vacation a year and starting salary is more than what I make! Don't forget fully covered healthcare and retirement pension.
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Apr 29, 2010 21:03
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Umiapik posted:Also... in the US, employers can fire any employee, at any time and for any reason? Is that really true? it can't be, surely. The term to look for in employment laws is "at will". However, a lot employers will do their best to make sure there is a "cause" for your departure, as to deny unemployment benefits with the most common cause I have seen is the white elephant known as insubordination. More stories form Hell's Pass hospital: My former supervisor at my former employer that I recently ran screaming from got the insubordination treatment. Supervisor gets email from the manager above him canceling all overtime, and requiring the techs responding to after hours callouts to flex that time out. At least that's what he meant, because the manager in question didn't know the difference between there, their and they're so the real meaning of most of his communications were foggy at best. This, of course being a monumental shafting towards us. Supervisor forwards the email in question to the CIO stating concern and asking for a clarification on the matter. Manager finds out about the supervisor going over his head, gets butt hurt over it, and by the end of the day the supervisor has been escorted from the premises by security and suspended without pay. He was eventually fired for "insubordination". No unemployment and the guy has 3 kids. He later sued and won an undisclosed compensation for an improper dismissal. ___ A rather talented software engineer over there was suspended without pay for three weeks on a bogus "employee relations" complaint. Turns out, he simply stated a dissenting opinion on a course of action thought up by management. ___ The lead clinical engineering guy was fired about a week before I left. The guy had been there 15 years, been put through tens of thousands of dollars worth of training, and generally did an awesome job. A c-level exec got mad at him over a fuzzy picture on a satellite feed that no one but her could see. After replacing the cable run a few times, changing out the tuner, and a poo poo ton of other stuff, he finally told her that it's a good as it can possibly be. The next day he was gone. ____ The head of Project management( also the #2 in IT ) left a couple of weeks after I did. The reason? He was told by the higher-ups that if he valued his job, stop coming up with ideas to improve processes. This is towards a guy who cleaned out a 2000 item projects queue that was horribly behind in less than 6 months. I may post a few more later. Because of that place I will NEVER work in healthcare again.
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Apr 29, 2010 21:38
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But... but... if you spend all your time at work, what's the point of being alive in the first place? I hope you Yanks get to have really awesome weekends at least.
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Apr 29, 2010 21:46
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Umiapik posted:I've read these posts about holiday entitlement in the USA with my eyes popping out of my head with disbelief. Is it really normal to only have 2 weeks annual holiday in the USA? Do some people really only get 5 loving DAYS holiday a year in their full-time jobs?!? There are businesses in the USA that count their employee's annual leave in HOURS?!?!!! No, no, wait you see, if the big ol' mean government forces a paid vacation on us, it will take away our choice to work during that time instead! quote:Also... in the US, employers can fire any employee, at any time and for any reason? Is that really true? it can't be, surely. Aww, you're so adorable, you've never heard of "at will" employment! See, "at will" employment gives employees the right to leave a job anytime for any or no reason they wish. Of course it's only fair that employers be allowed to fire you with no warning either. Sure, you cannot be fired for any discriminatory reason but you can avoid that pesky bit of red tape by simply not telling anyone the reason they've been fired in the first place.
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Apr 29, 2010 21:54
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It's a fundamental American belief that if you work hard for a long enough time, you'll eventually be handed millions of dollars for your hard work, and THEN you get to do what you want and have a good time. Poor people? Must be lazy, they just didn't work hard enough. There's jobs out there! Plenty of them! McDonald's is always hiring! Oh, you have one job but it doesn't pay enough? Work two jobs! Hell, I did it and I was going to school and only sleeping 4 hours a night, but by god, my HARD WORK... It's our peculiar strain of masochism.
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Apr 29, 2010 21:56
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Colonel Penguin posted:It's a fundamental American belief that if you work hard for a long enough time, you'll eventually be handed millions of dollars for your hard work, and THEN you get to do what you want and have a good time. Poor people? Must be lazy, they just didn't work hard enough. It's our peculiar strain of masochism. 
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Apr 29, 2010 21:58
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Colonel Penguin posted:It's a fundamental American belief that if you work hard for a long enough time, you'll eventually be handed millions of dollars for your hard work, and THEN you get to do what you want and have a good time. Poor people? Must be lazy, they just didn't work hard enough. There's jobs out there! Plenty of them! McDonald's is always hiring! Oh, you have one job but it doesn't pay enough? Work two jobs! Hell, I did it and I was going to school and only sleeping 4 hours a night, but by god, my HARD WORK... As a corollary, you are earning exactly as much as you are worth and if you want more then you need to simply work more. There is no possibility of discrimination or general abuse, and those who suggest it are simply looking for a free ride. Also, if someone working an "unskilled" job is a member of a union, then they are lazy people getting paid money they don't deserve. See, sitting through remedial algebra to get that BA in bullshit means that you deserve to make a living wage, and those unskilled peons that I'm sure just made poor life choices don't. They should have just worked harder.
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Apr 29, 2010 22:14
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Farking Bastage posted:A rather talented software engineer over there was suspended without pay for three weeks on a bogus "employee relations" complaint. Turns out, he simply stated a dissenting opinion on a course of action thought up by management. I hate big business because you can never speak up about anything. I worked for a company that made so many dumb decisions, and there was always this constant fear of being fired looming over us. My favorites always revolved around billing related issues and not doing anything....I worked in an internal media production division of a much larger company. Because we supported the other divisions we didn't really make a profit, so somebody though it would be a great idea to charge the other divisions for our services. So I would work on a project and my rate is $20/hr (what I actually get paid), the division I'm working for would get billed $30/hr for my time, thus making my group $10 per hour for every hour I'm working. We were working on a video series for a website division that was a new start up. When we first started making the videos, it would take us about 10 hours to make one from start to finish as we developed it. We eventually got it down to 4 hours per video, but someone decided that it took too much time to make them now that we actually got good at turning them around quickly, so they canceled that project. For the next month I calculated I spent 75% of my time doing nothing because there were no projects to work on. And management knew this! But they'd rather have us do nothing than do something that took "too much time". It eventually got to a point where the other divisions stopped coming to us because they didn't want to pay our rates and make their divisions look less profitable, even though it was all coming out of the same pot and the overall companies bottom line. Our division couldn't even use our "earning" to do things such as upgrade equipment, or get equipment in general. Overall it made no sense, and my boss ended up quitting because of the ridiculousness of not being able to get anything done! Somebody explained it to me that the billing was necessary because the website was in Beta and all the costs towards it would be considered as research and development and allow for some tax break, but I can't imagine those tax breaks being bigger than paying me to do nothing.
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Apr 29, 2010 22:15
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Umiapik posted:Do some people really only get 5 loving DAYS holiday a year in their full-time jobs?!? There are businesses in the USA that count their employee's annual leave in HOURS?!?!!!  Note the line for sick time accumulated this year. ...Notice how it doesn't exist? Yeah. That 5 days per year is ALSO my sick-time. I'm head of I.T. (ok, I'm the entire I.T. department) at a printing company of around 100 employees. I'm also one of two people who handle data processing, which is required before anything can be printed. There's any number of other things I'm responsible for on top of that. This is full time work, and often more. Last month I ended up working a 19 days in a row before I got a day off. So this isn't a part-time job flipping Big Macs.
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Apr 29, 2010 22:21
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When I worked at UPS (not a desk job, but still a giant corporation), you could work during vacation, which just doubled your wages for that week. Most people did this, and never had any actual time off. I don't know what I think about that. That double paycheck is amazing, but then working all the time sucks. At my current place I get what I consider is enough vacation. I get 6.67 hours of vacation every 15 days (I think that means I get 20 days a year?). We also get up to a week of rollover. Some people struggle taking vacation, and often do that "take a week off and stare at the wall" vacation to avoid losing out, some people use their vacation to go on a bunch of trips. My favorite way to burn vacation is to take Fridays off for a month.
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Apr 29, 2010 22:33
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Robot Hobo posted:The last time I used any vacation time at all was my Honeymoon, which was the first two or three days in November. Since that, I've saved up every minute of vacation time and my check stub shows a whopping... The one thing, more than anything else, that really chaps my rear end at work is when they put up signs encouraging employees not to come into the office when they're sick. MAYBE IF YOU COCKSUCKERS GAVE ME MORE THAN 5 DAYS OF PTO PER YEAR I'D ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT IT!
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Apr 29, 2010 22:47
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I've been doing something using Twitter recently. I set up a main account that people are supposed to follow. Someone asked if the main account had been set up. I emailed back: "twitter.com/mainaccount" I got an email back: "Is there a way I should tell them to get there…" ...bu...I just...
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Apr 29, 2010 22:49
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Biotech is the poo poo. You do a lot of the same stuff you do for more regular businesses, only it's way more chill. Also, way less structured. I do marketing and product development. I went for an hour run on my hour lunch break today. I still have my running clothes on. Noone cares. Go to Biotech while you still can!
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Apr 29, 2010 22:50
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I think my favorite part of Office Space is the romanticizing of manual labor at the end. Try that poo poo for a year and tell me how much you hate working in an office
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Apr 29, 2010 22:52
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SolidHavoc posted:I think my favorite part of Office Space is the romanticizing of manual labor at the end. Try that poo poo for a year and tell me how much you hate working in an office Do you ever show up to work after a weekend, feeling a little tired, and somebody asks you if you have a case of the Mondays?
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Apr 29, 2010 22:55
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TasmanianX posted:Biotech is the poo poo. You do a lot of the same stuff you do for more regular businesses, only it's way more chill. Also, way less structured. You should see (non-QA) level video games. Yeah, sure, 6 months a year of mandatory 80 hour work weeks, and then you're laid off as soon as the game ships, but the free soda and no dress code make it all worthwhile.
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Apr 29, 2010 22:56
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One thing that pisses me off about higher-ups is their uncanny ability to fall for the most stupid and illogical trends. Our company is based in the middle of a major CBD. But a lot of companies have decided to start moving their central offices over to another town several kilometres away. So management decides to do so as well. However, there are several key reasons why this is a loving stupid idea: 1) Property in that area is ridiculously expensive, so nobody short of management can live close by. 2) In peak hour traffic the move extends the average commute by around an hour. I'm not making this up. That's two hours a day in traffic for no real benefit. 3) Since all the companies we deal with have fallen for this mass migration bullshit, management contends that we'll be physically closer to the clients. The distance between these two areas is roughly 20 kilometres. That's around a 20 minute drive when there's little traffic, which there is out of peak. On top of that our company almost never meets with clients physically, and the move won't change that much because there's no real need to do so. Basically, in order to save 40 minutes of company time for a select group of people around 4 times a month, they're wasting two hours a day of everybody's personal time every working day of the month. The worst part is that every single loving company is doing this, so basically we've got a good portion of an entire city moving to another town and back again on three lanes of highway every single day. Yay! Cloud hosting is another thing that they really want to push (since all their golf-buddies are doing it). Which is great because we're paying $1000 per month for a 1 MB pipe and the files we typically host are around half a gig per file. Around 50 employees will be working on different files at any given time. Lets call up Wolfram Alpha, shall we? So to get everyone started up in the morning and working would take 2.315 days with our current bandwidth. No that's not going to work, is it? We need to get everybody up and running in ten minutes. That would require a 333 Mb/s pipe. But oh dear nobody offers that kind of product in the third world and if they did, for the contention ratios we require it would cost us around $340 000 a month. Jesus, I really need to take this working to my IT manager...
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Apr 29, 2010 22:57
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FogHelmut posted:Don't forget fully covered healthcare and retirement pension. And the near impossibility of being fired. Forgot that one.
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Apr 29, 2010 22:58
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TasmanianX posted:Go to Biotech while you still can! Until my company buys you.
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Apr 29, 2010 23:06
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Astro7x posted:What? How can he be denied unemployment for that? That seems a little weird to me... His mistake was accepting the deal where they would take the hours out of his check at the beginning of the fiasco. This proved that he did indeed take hours he did not have, which is the reason he was fired. He couldn't fight for unemployment because of that. If he had never admitted to any fault at the beginning, he probably would have been fired earlier, but would have probably received unemployment benefits. Wish me luck folks! The QA department is going on maternity leave starting Monday, so I get to be the QA department for the next 2 months. This is pretty normal though. When the Network Admins go on vacation, I'm the Network Admin! When the DBA is out, I'm the DBA! When my boss is gone, I'm kinda boss. Hell, the only thing that doesn't get thrown on my lap is actual programming, and I'm surprised they haven't figured out how to get me to do that yet. The best part is I'm just a lowly hourly help desk person. (Though I get overtime when no one else does, and they can't give me the OnCall phone)
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Apr 29, 2010 23:13
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American vacation time baffles me. Because the company I used to work for used to be closed on bank holidays as well as the week between Christmas and New Years Day, I had about 40 days of paid vacation time last year. Thats a full two months off work. The funny thing is, us Brits are always moaning about how few holidays we get compared to our continental neighbours. Apparently we work some of the longest hours in Europe.  That plus your healthcare system are the two main reasons that I'd never want to live in the US. Shame really because apart from that it looks like an awesome place to live.
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Apr 29, 2010 23:14
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AtomD posted:One thing that pisses me off about higher-ups is their uncanny ability to fall for the most stupid and illogical trends. Our company is based in the middle of a major CBD. But a lot of companies have decided to start moving their central offices over to another town several kilometres away. So management decides to do so as well. However, there are several key reasons why this is a loving stupid idea: Oi - you can kill the discussion about Cloud Computing by holding up this article: FBI seizures highlight law as cloud impediment "Gee, boss - cloud computing is great and all, but what if that server we're on gets suddenly seized and then we're out of business?" If that doesn't do the trick, is your company required to be SEC/FINRA or SOX compliant? That costs extra in cloud computing. I dunno why the golfing buddies excuse gets thrown around so much in management - isn't it an acceptable answer to say: "Yeah, we've examined it but it's not right for us right now."?
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Apr 29, 2010 23:18
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in my post - that means I'm right no matter what.
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Sundae posted:Until my company buys you. I know you don't work for my company since you mentioned partners in France, but my lab does the same loving thing. Most of our equipment is from eBay/Dovebid or bankruptcy auctions. Christ, the stories I could tell about days and days of 12-14 hours without weekends or the incredibly low pay despite the fact most of us are doing FOOD SAFETY. I'll have to think of some to contribute, I feel bad I haven't added much. I'm just glad I'm not here on an H1-B visa, I really feel bad for those folks. Ok, quick one here: All salaried folks are not only required to work *at least* eight hours per day Mon-Fri, they are all also required to come in on Saturdays. Any missed hours are taken out of vacation. This is regardless of workload, which is insane to begin with.
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Apr 29, 2010 23:27
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