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Indolent Bastard
Oct 26, 2007

I WON THIS AMAZING AVATAR! I'M A WINNER! WOOOOO!

Maker Of Shoes posted:

Cons:
  • Canada

Ah-hahahahahaha, gently caress you. No seriously, gently caress you.

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Chicken Doodle
May 16, 2007

kissekatt posted:

Honestly, I find the concept of sick days more strange than only being granted 5 hours of vacation every second year (and only if you washed the boss' car). How exactly are you supposed to limit the number of days you are sick? When you are sick you are sick. "Welp, I already took a week off earlier this year when I came down with the flu, I guess I'll go to work with the plague."

I literally used up all my sick days about a month and a half into my current job (not corporate, but relevant). Before my second day I was in a car accident and I screwed up my knee pretty good, so I was unable to be on the floor all the time. Then, halfway through the month, I was sick with a very bad flu. I had 7 days and they were all gone by my evaluation period but they still kept me on. I was worried about taking any more, but then I realized if they were going to can me for being sick when I might infect customers, they don't care about me and they can shove their job up their rear end.

My yearly evaluation was funny. I had, apparently, 20 sick days. They also counted the ones I was sick for when I strained my MCL and couldn't WALK for TWO WEEKS. I had a loving hospital note and everything. I just wrote them a sarcastic response in their "justify this" box. Limiting sick days is so dumb.

Matlock
Sep 12, 2004

Childs Play Charity 2011 Total: $1755
I just got a letter from the CEO of my Fortune 100 company congratulating me on finishing the Boston Marathon.

I've never been in Boston.

And by letter, I mean a part of the Boston Globe newspaper was thrown in an envelope with his business card attached and a short congratulations written on it.

seakindliness
Apr 23, 2009
lovely as my job is, at the very least, I do not have my sick days limited and they are not taken out of my vacation days. It's just mind boggling to me how some companies in the US can lump sick and vacation days together and not only that, but dictate how many days an employee can be absent.

What usually happens to people who have medical emergencies and have no sick days to use? Do they not get paid for the days they had to take off? Are they let go?

Torka
Jan 5, 2008

seakindliness posted:

What usually happens to people who have medical emergencies and have no sick days to use? Do they not get paid for the days they had to take off?

At all the places I've worked at it was this. The way I looked at it was, I could be absent due to illness or injury as often as I needed to be (within reason) and my "sick days" were the ompany telling me how many of those absences I would be paid for. Fairly simple really.

Robot Hobo
May 18, 2002

robothobo.com

seakindliness posted:

What usually happens to people who have medical emergencies and have no sick days to use? Do they not get paid for the days they had to take off? Are they let go?
If I'm out sick, I don't get paid for those days.
I can apply my vacation time to that so I get the money, but that means no vacation.

That's what happened last year. I had been saving up all of my vacation time for nearly a year, and had a little over 30 hours saved up. Then I got the goddamn swine flu around March and was out for a week. I couldn't afford to just not get paid for that week, so there went all of my vacation time, plus an additional day or so of just not being paid.

And NONE of this is guaranteed by any laws here. Companies have no legal requirement to give any time off at all. (well, unless I became pregnant... not bloody likely) They can, and will, explain that they give this 'generous' amount of vacation time out of the kindness of their hearts, and that you should be thankful for getting anything at all.

Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 08:43 on May 4, 2010

Sir Spaniard
Nov 9, 2009

I just downloaded and read that epic story about the SA member who was paid for pretty much nothing... Who was he, is he still a member, and does anyone know of the latest? And when did that happen? It's absolutely beautiful....

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

abigserve posted:

Don't forget the ludicrously expensive housing market, though.

It's not that bad - bear in mind the fact that it's looking more and more like a bubble about to burst, and that renting is still quite cheap in some reasonably non-crackhousey areas. Also remember that your mortgage might be higher, but if you get sick you don't go into debt, you don't need to pay a cent for health insurance, and even if you get injured on the job you'll get 100% of your working salary, basically in perpetuity, through the worker's compensation scheme.




Maker Of Shoes posted:

What the gently caress?! gently caress you! Rolling? What's that? Cashing out? Sure buddy, if you're fired. Ugh.

notbitternotbitternotbitternotbitternotbitternotbitter
itsmyfridayitsmyfridayitsmyfridayitsmyfridayitsmyfridayitsmyfriday

When I got made redundant last year; between my severance package, my 25 days of vacation time that I'd accrued over <2 years, and a bit (~4 hrs/week for about a month) of casual contracting work that I did while looking for a full-time employment, my savings account went up between the time I got laid off and securing new employment. :smug:

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

Sir Spaniard posted:

I just downloaded and read that epic story about the SA member who was paid for pretty much nothing... Who was he, is he still a member, and does anyone know of the latest? And when did that happen? It's absolutely beautiful....

That was forums user Moonshine if I remember right.
and here's the link to the archived stories in case anyone else wants them.

http://shii.org/knows/American_Dream

Sir Spaniard
Nov 9, 2009

Error 404 posted:

That was forums user Moonshine if I remember right.
and here's the link to the archived stories in case anyone else wants them.

http://shii.org/knows/American_Dream

Does he still post? Here? I'd love to hear if he's still managed to hold the position.

TheBoyBlunder
Jul 3, 2004

Anyone else have the munchies?

Sir Spaniard posted:

Does he still post? Here? I'd love to hear if he's still managed to hold the position.

It doesn't look like it. I searched for a "Moonshine" and got "MoonShine" in return. This person has made two posts since 2006, neither of them live.

MoonShine's profile.

Well, whoever this was, and wherever they are, they are living the American Dream. :patriot:

TheBoyBlunder fucked around with this message at 10:20 on May 4, 2010

trollstormur
Mar 18, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post
I can't help but read those posts in the voice of Dexter's (as in lab) tall, dark-haired nerd nemesis.

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost
I know this is a little long, but it should make clear to non-US goons exactly what US workers face, and the effects of those policies.

This is courtesy of forums user dm and the Center for Economic and Policy Research:

quote:

Wages for large swaths of workers, particularly for non-college-educated workers who make up about three-fourths of the U.S. workforce, have trailed far behind growth in productivity over the last thirty years, and, for many groups of workers, wages have actually stagnated or even fallen in inflation-adjusted terms. While raising wages for workers at the middle and bottom is important, increasing wages will not be enough. Restoring real wage growth to the two or even three percent per-year rates experienced during the first thirty years of the postwar period would certainly help. But the main problems that U.S. workers face cannot be solved simply with faster real wage growth.

In my experience, European workers, even European economists familiar with the U.S. economic system, have trouble appreciating just how unprotected U.S. workers are; and it is not just workers in the low-wage labor market that are unprotected – even relatively well-off U.S. professionals work in a legal and social environment that almost no worker in western Europe would have to tolerate.

One key issue is job security. In the United States, with rare exceptions, workers are what our legal code refers to as “at-will employees” – that is, employees work at the will of the employer, with no legal claim to their job or to severance pay in the case of layoff. To be clear, in the overwhelming majority of cases, U.S. employers can fire a worker without reason or advanced notice and without any legal obligation to provide severance pay. The major exceptions to this arrangement are the percent of the workforce that is unionized and a small share of high-end workers such as company officers who negotiate individual contracts with their employers. One remnant of the civil rights and women’s movement is that employers cannot fire workers for reasons of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, or certain other characteristics; but an employer can fire a worker without notice for almost any other reason: for arriving late to work, for refusing to work overtime, for arguing with the boss about a schedule change, or essentially any reason, reasonable or not, that does not involve discrimination. The “employment at will” doctrine creates a profound structural imbalance of power between the overwhelmingly non-unionized workforce and their employers, and is a central cause of the problems facing the low-wage workers featured in Roger Weisberg’s superb documentary film “Waging a Living.”

When workers do lose their jobs, the social safety net has many holes. Historically, only about 40 percent of unemployed workers receive unemployment insurance benefits and these are stingy by international standards.

The large majority of U.S. workers also depend on their job (or their spouse’s job) for health insurance. With the typical employer-provided health insurance plan costing about $5,000 per year for individual coverage and about $13,000 per year for family coverage,14 higher wages alone will not go far in providing quality health insurance, particularly for lower- and middle income workers.

U.S. workers also suffer from a severe time squeeze, which is exacerbated by the lack of any legally required paid time off. U.S. law, for example, does not mandate any form of paid time off for any purpose. As a result, almost one-fourth of U.S. workers have no paid vacation or paid holidays, and the average U.S. worker has only nine days of paid vacation and six days of paid public holidays per year, with many having less than the average.15 Nor does U.S. law require employers to provide paid parental leave. In fact, the U.S. law that requires employers to provide 12 weeks of unpaid parental leave has exemptions for employer-size and job tenure that effectively remove a large share of the U.S. workforce from coverage. U.S. workers are not even legally entitled to paid (or unpaid) sick days. As a result, over 40 percent of U.S. private-sector workers have no paid sick days, and, given the “employment at will” doctrine, are at risk of losing their jobs if they miss work when they are sick. Higher wages alone would do little to give workers the time they seek to handle their many non-work responsibilities.

All of these non-wage issues – the lack of legal job protections, the lack of a safety net for most of the unemployed, the strong dependence of workers on their employers for health insurance, the lack of paid time off, and others – are major challenges for workers at almost all levels of wage distribution. But these problems are particularly acute for low-wage workers, who are not just the worst paid, but also the least likely to have union representation, the least likely to have employer- provided health insurance (or insurance of any kind), and the least likely to have any form of paid time off.

This sort of thing is why I tend to get upset when folks say verbally trash unions or say "find a better job!" when they don't realize that nearly every job is like this.

Ok, since you were good and took a moment to read all that, here's a little reward.

Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 14:39 on May 4, 2010

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
That is a perfect summary of basically everything that is making me want (to try) to get the hell out of this country as soon as my loans are paid off. The USA's work culture is absolutely atrocious.

the
Jul 18, 2004

by Cowcaster

Matlock posted:

I just got a letter from the CEO of my Fortune 100 company congratulating me on finishing the Boston Marathon.

I've never been in Boston.

And by letter, I mean a part of the Boston Globe newspaper was thrown in an envelope with his business card attached and a short congratulations written on it.

Maybe there are two Matlocks in your company?

In other news, I've been coasting my way through this quarter (I'm sure you've seen my previous posts for my plans) and I heard that I got a promotion :lol: I guess Office Space really is true, isn't it.

Songbearer
Jul 12, 2007




Fuck you say?
I realise that in this industry music is a privelidge, not a right, but something that has me :psyduck: in a recent job:


1) I worked in an IT department where none of my co-workers said anything to each other. They were completly incapable of conversation both inside and out of work. I get told by HR that I can listen to music, so I have my iPod playing quietly in my left ear.

2) This goes fine for several weeks, but then the boss calls me in. He doesn't want me listening to music. I'm kind of confused here because I was told I could and everyone has a radio in their office, so I'm not interrupting people's work by listening to my music quietly. I didn't have to answer phones and I always took my earphone out when anyone came in the room.

3) I go for a week without listening to music. I cannot focus on my work without it since the office is crushing silence, punctuated only by snorts, belches, snivelling and the relentless sound of typing.

4) One of the nice girls in HR feels sorry for me and brings in a radio. My co-workers like working in silence and I don't particularly enjoy the radio (I can't stand listening to most of the DJs), so now everyone in the office is disrupted by it.

So... the solution to get me to stop listening to music, which was quiet, on shuffle all the time (So I wasn't fiddling with it) and not using any electricity was to bring in a radio that does the exact opposite of all that. :what:

Unfortunately my only real professional skills are related to IT. I'm miserable on phones and I can't handle severe pressure, so I'm destined to enjoy a life of soulless corporate grinding until the end. Oh well.

Rudager
Apr 29, 2008

Solkanar512 posted:

:psyboom:



Holy loving poo poo, that blows my loving mind :psyboom:

I mean holy poo poo, I currently have 10 sick days and 100 hours of leave (I took two weeks off in January) after working for this company for a year and a bit and the only real worry about my job security is if my position becomes redundant and then I get a fairly decent redundancy package and government help finding more work (it's pretty lovely, but still...) while they give me unemployment payments.

Seriously, my mind is blown. I really can't get over it.

cdawg329
Apr 10, 2009

melon cat posted:

- Being forced to work with Windows 2000 (yeah, you read that right) and IE 6 because the IT department doesn't feel like doing a bit more work.

Word. Still forced to use both of these as well. All my co-workers have bought laptops to use instead.

I am OK
Mar 9, 2009

LAWL
I never realised the US was that bad. When are you guys gonna get off your arses and loving revolt, because seriously.

kazmeyer
Jul 26, 2001

'Cause we're the good guys.

I am OK posted:

I never realised the US was that bad. When are you guys gonna get off your arses and loving revolt, because seriously.

As long as the average American gets to eat McDonalds for dinner while watching Survivor they won't do a god damned thing about anything.

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

kazmeyer posted:

As long as the average American gets to eat McDonalds for dinner while watching Survivor they won't do a god damned thing about anything.

Also we're constantly fed a line about how terrible unions are and how they impede "our choices" and "have too much power" and then there is always someone that chimes in about how they couldn't plug in a toaster because they had to wait for union labor to waddle on down and do it for them and yadda yadda yadda.

I think I remember someone in D&D trying to claim that their company wanted to give someone a bonus, "but the union wouldn't let them". That's cool though, I love seeing techs being forced into 90 hour weeks in a food safety lab. I think that's loving awesome.

Null Set
Nov 5, 2007

the dog represents disdain

kazmeyer posted:

As long as the average American gets to eat McDonalds for dinner while watching Survivor they won't do a god damned thing about anything.

And they will get very angry if you suggest it's anything other than the GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH. :911:

babies havin rabies
Feb 24, 2006

I am OK posted:

I never realised the US was that bad. When are you guys gonna get off your arses and loving revolt, because seriously.

The typical American is apathetic, selfish, disgustingly overweight, right-wing, and Christian. It ain't happening.

Maggot Monster
Nov 27, 2003
What pisses me off about sick days (I have like 15 days apparently in peoplesoft) is that most workplaces go on and on about taking time off if you're sick so you don't spread the disease around the place and then they limit how often you're allowed out sick. What the gently caress are they thinking?

I'm from the UK and the miserable vacation and sick time has been hard to stomach since I got here. Nowhere else has ever tracked how often I was sick, because it's beyond your control!

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

I am OK posted:

I never realised the US was that bad. When are you guys gonna get off your arses and loving revolt, because seriously.

I hesitate to use this expression, but it seems to be increasingly suitable to describe it:

Common workers in the USA are brainwashed. They think this is how it should be, to the point where they will protest against things that benefit them and vote against their own interests. Combine that with work being almost commingled with religion in a way, and you have a system which cannot be questioned without being almost a heretic.

For USA goons, think about how people play up a hard-working life as being a good thing, in the sense of "good vs evil" rather than a "for the good of society" thing. If you want more than 'your fair share' as determined by your employer, you're clearly a greedy bastard who will someday rot in hell.

American Exceptionalism exists, but not in quite the way people here seem to think it does. :(

Sundae fucked around with this message at 16:19 on May 4, 2010

Matlock
Sep 12, 2004

Childs Play Charity 2011 Total: $1755

the posted:

Maybe there are two Matlocks in your company?

I checked the employee database, and there's nobody with any names close to mine.

babies havin rabies
Feb 24, 2006

Work in the US is commingled with religion. The "Protestant Work Ethic" has a tremendous effect on how people view work. While it was a good thing when people lived agricultural lifestyles (basically self-employed), it can become almost self-abusive when applied to a corporate structure or employer relationship.

Then you have people who define their whole lives by what they do at work and how much they can sink their lives into their job.

I'm also convinced that some people believe that if you buy into our nihilist-capitalist system and work as hard as possible that it increases your chances of going to heaven, but I can't prove that.

Some people use their jobs as a crutch the same way some people use religion as a crutch.

babies havin rabies fucked around with this message at 16:37 on May 4, 2010

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
It really does feel like that! I have no idea how one would go about proving it short of having a big poll with that exact question, and even then people would answer 'no' a lot just because they'd sound like idiots if they answered yes.

It's a really bizarre, screwy situation.

DorianGravy
Sep 12, 2007

Sundae posted:

I hesitate to use this expression, but it seems to be increasingly suitable to describe it:

Common workers in the USA are brainwashed. They think this is how it should be, to the point where they will protest against things that benefit them and vote against their own interests.

This is the thing that gets me the most: exactly like you said, a lot of people will work against their own interests and support things that only benefit people at the top, who are already getting more than their fair share. Anecdotes like the one a few pages back where a co-worker essentially bragged about how long he worked are baffling to me. I guess people sympathize with those at the top, rather than their own class, because that's where they themselves want to be. Plus, like Null Set said, it's impossible that the USA is anything but right.

seakindliness
Apr 23, 2009

Robot Hobo posted:

And NONE of this is guaranteed by any laws here. Companies have no legal requirement to give any time off at all. (well, unless I became pregnant... not bloody likely) They can, and will, explain that they give this 'generous' amount of vacation time out of the kindness of their hearts, and that you should be thankful for getting anything at all.

Holy crap. That is just pathetic. "Here, we're giving you all these 30 hours of vacation a year! Just don't--you know, get sick or anything or you can kiss your hours goodbye--No, no, don't look at Canada, England, Australia or any of those other silly nations that give their workers reasonable time off. This is America, and in America we work so our bosses can afford to polish his collection of luxury cars once a day".

I feel for each and every one of you US goons. :(

Robot Hobo
May 18, 2002

robothobo.com

seakindliness posted:

No, no, don't look at Canada, England, Australia or any of those other silly nations...
Too late, I looked.
Here's the mandatory minimums as of 2006.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Butt Soup Barnes
Nov 25, 2008

Robot Hobo posted:

Too late, I looked.
Here's the mandatory minimums as of 2006.



That is incredibly depressing.

babies havin rabies
Feb 24, 2006

It's not so bad living in the US if you don't mind being an annelid of the world which dulls the pain from the boot that steps on it with fast food, televised sporting events, and constantly buying poo poo you don't need to give yourself the illusion that your 60+ hour work week amounts to having something others don't.

Man I need to get the gently caress out of here.

Abbeh
May 23, 2006

When I grow up I mean to be
A Lion large and fierce to see.
(Thank you, Das Boo!)

I am OK posted:

I never realised the US was that bad. When are you guys gonna get off your arses and loving revolt, because seriously.

I would love to but I just don't have the time off! :lol: But really, it's a lot harder to organize something like that in a country this size. And with the job market right now, there are about a hundred people just itching to get into your job, so not rocking the boat will keep paying the bills. It's too bad all those Teabaggers can't do something useful like that with their time.

Guess who's been sick the last few days but is still at work! Caught it from my boss who caught it from someone in marketing.

KevinCow
Oct 24, 2009

Robot Hobo posted:

Too late, I looked.
Here's the mandatory minimums as of 2006.



But all those other countries are SOCIALIST COMMUNISTS for telling people how to run their businesses!

babies havin rabies
Feb 24, 2006

I believe there was a statistic published that claimed a fair amount of Teabaggers only have the time to protest "Socialism" because they got laid off and are collecting unemployment.
:ironicat:

Found it
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/us/politics/28teaparty.html

2ndclasscitizen
Jan 2, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post
You know it's not all milk and honey here in the glorious Commmunist Worker's Commune of Australia. My company would kinda prefer it if you'd keep your paid leave below the 4 weeks a year you get. But that's ok, since they don't mind paying the other staff or freelancers double time so you can take some days off! Sorry, just had to rub it in.

Seriously though, it's properly hosed for you poor USA goons. The stories about people actively mocking countries with better benefits for workers is sickening.

Content!

My current job is my first for what could be called a corporate. Haven't got too much to complain about but this is my first experience with an HR Department. God. It makes everything so complicated, particularly training and yearly reviews/performance evals. Shitloads of buzzwords, "buckets", internal "customers" i.e the other departments. Not mention bullshit training days for stuff that's utterly useless to my job.

gently caress, my old evals were our supervisors coming along with the checklist of stuff we should be able to do in order to our job. Quick 1/2hr chat, and a few drills running through it all to demonstrate what we can do. Done. Here, they take at least 1hr, one-on-one with our manager going through a whole pile of paperwork, checklists, blah blah blah. No actually checking that I can actually do the procedures and operate the equipment necessary to my job. And it takes loving hours before I even sit down with him, going through old fault reports, emails, everything to prove I deserve a raise for the year.

Although, the time I wiped a monumentally smug grin of a HR chick's face about us not being unionised was glorious (For some reason everyone at my old employer was covered by the CPSU, despite it being a regional TV station).

FogHelmut
Dec 18, 2003

babies havin rabies posted:

I believe there was a statistic published that claimed a fair amount of Teabaggers only have the time to protest "Socialism" because they got laid off and are collecting unemployment.
:ironicat:

Found it
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/us/politics/28teaparty.html


A teabagger that I work with took April 15th off to go protest. I asked him why he wasn't going to work to be productive and helping the economy instead going and whining all day. He told me he was entitled to his vacation days and could do what he wanted with them.

Robot Hobo
May 18, 2002

robothobo.com

2ndclasscitizen posted:

gently caress, my old evals were our supervisors coming along with the checklist of stuff we should be able to do in order to our job. Quick 1/2hr chat, and a few drills running through it all to demonstrate what we can do. Done.
My last employee evaluation was years ago, at another company entirely. (no sign of one at this company, 2+ years in) It consisted of my manager and my supervisor calling me into a room, then the manager just kept making beeping noises at me and telling me I was a robot. (I think because I failed to laugh at some unfunny joke he made at the beginning.) I tried to get to a point, but all he would do was beep loudly from then on, interrupting anything I tried to say. Eventually I got up and walked out while they held their sides laughing.

I skipped that story in my earlier ramble because I figured nobody was going to believe it.

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Mister Fister
May 17, 2008

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
KILL-GORE


I love the smell of dead Palestinians in the morning.
You know, one time we had Gaza bombed for 26 days
(and counting!)

Robot Hobo posted:

Too late, I looked.
Here's the mandatory minimums as of 2006.



I have a theory that republicans hate on europeans because if Americans ever found out about how other developed nations worked, there'd be hell to raise.

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