|
Has anyone injured their way out of as many pushes as Ahmed Johnson? I was just recalling a bunch of big matches that got canceled and it's pretty crazy. He was supposed to fight HBK at some point, a Raw in '96 I believe, but he got injured and the match was canceled. He was supposed to fight Undertaker when he turned heel, but he got injured (this pretty much messed up his whole heel turn and killed a lot of his heat). I think he was gonna fight Austin at some point too. There were other injuries on top of that and I think he was even in a car wreck at some point. Sure he was pretty bad in the ring but I really marked out for him as a kid. Without the injuries I think he could have been at least as big as Batista.
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 16:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 17:31 |
|
|
Minidust posted:Has anyone injured their way out of as many pushes as Ahmed Johnson? Mr Kennedy comes immediately to mind.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 16:49
|
|
|
Karmine posted:I like it when people act as if Jim Cornette no longer has any credibility because his wrestling fanfic isn't very good. Yes. People should stop judging a booker on how he aspires to book things.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 17:24
|
|
|
How about we just agree that the Invasion was a pipe dream and nobody could ever book it properly.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 17:29
|
|
|
sportsgenius86 posted:Yes. People should stop judging a booker on how he aspires to book things. A one-off fantasy booking question doesn't really make your future booking decisions abjectly terrible by default
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 17:31
|
|
|
CVagts posted:How about we just agree that the Invasion was a pipe dream and nobody could ever book it properly.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 17:31
|
|
|
sportsgenius86 posted:Yes. People should stop judging a booker on how he aspires to book things. OK sure because some bullshit thing he did that only a handful of smarks would listen to is an absolute reflection of how he would actually book a wrestling show. As far as I can tell the guest booker thing is basically the same thing we all did with our wrestling action figures when we were kids.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 17:37
|
|
|
Yeah and Val Venis has a win over CM Punk. (hint: context is key) I will give Cornette the benefit of the doubt until I watch the video and see his logic. Written well, the worst crap on paper will make cash money.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 17:38
|
|
|
whatsabattle posted:Yeah and Val Venis has a win over CM Punk. (hint: context is key) My assumption was that he would be working under ideal circumstances. Like, in this imaginary world guys like Rhodes, Funk, Hogan etc. would all be in their primes.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 17:47
|
|
|
an imaginary world of 1978
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 18:07
|
|
|
Matlock posted:an imaginary world of 1978 People really need to stop making this argument/joke about Cornette.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 18:10
|
|
|
Minidust posted:Sure he was pretty bad in the ring but I really marked out for him as a kid. Without the injuries I think he could have been at least as big as Batista. The other issue besides him being injury-prone was that he was also prone to injuring other people in the ring, so I think that would have stalled out his career eventually too.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 18:14
|
|
|
Collias posted:People really need to stop making this argument/joke about Cornette. I think he was more making the argument that half the people Cornette booked are about 3 decades past their prime.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 18:15
|
|
|
Karmine posted:My assumption was that he would be working under ideal circumstances. Like, in this imaginary world guys like Rhodes, Funk, Hogan etc. would all be in their primes. If that is the case then I just stopped caring at all. Anyone can book anything if everything is ideal, and no one is crippled. Give him the setup exactly as it was in 2001 and then see what's what. Hogan will still refuse to job at all ever but we can ignore that plot hole.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 18:17
|
|
Matlock posted:an imaginary world of 1978 Maybe that would knock him down a few pegs.
|
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 18:20
|
|
|
Collias posted:People really need to stop making this argument/joke about Cornette. Just as soon as it stops being true.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 18:30
|
|
|
It's been a while since I've seen it but I think his overall storyline is the best I've heard in regards to a wcw/wwe war. It was basically Vince wanting to destroy the WCW talent and kayfabe book them to lose. Basically it's a fiction of the reality we actually got. However, in Cornette's version we actually got payoffs /edit Watching it now: Vince cuts a promo, fires Rick Steiner Bishcoff is exposed as a stooge for Vince all along! "Crip" Flair and Droop Faced Jim Ross get sent to WCW cause they're dumbshit southern guys. Flair becomes GM of WCW Rock Steiner not hurt bad enough, bring your brother Scott and wrestle Saturn and Malenko, double DQ and it's a double DQ becuase no one wants to work with the other. Flair calls Bischoff a Judas on Nitro, Dustin Rhodes sent to WCW and forced to wrestle Big Show, Show goes over. Malenko "stretches" Kanyon, poor Kanyon just trying to keep his job. Dusty Rhodes cuts a face promo against WWF. Flair hires a guy out of his own pocket because WWF won't unleash the purse strings for WCW, and it's Cactus Jack (bang bang). Vince goes apeshit. Dusty Rhodes becomes manager of a tag team in Dustin Rhodes and Jeff Jarret. People Cornette didn't take. Goldberg was getting paid and his heart wasn't in wrestling, no Lex Luger because he sucks. Funk booked to drop the intercontinental title to Dean Malenko but funk keeps no showing, Vince can't fire him because he'll never get the belt back. Booker T vs Christian, Booker T gets screwed by WWF referee. Dustin and Jarret go over the Hardy's, and then Vince is pissed that the Hardy's let them go over. Dudley's become WWF tag team champs. Jerry Lynn and Nova, Balls Mahoney, and RVD show up. Brock Lesner hospitalizes Balls Mahoney. Terry Funk is forced to defend the IC title vs Eddie Guererro. Funk is out cold but Eddie slips trying a frog splash and knocks himself out and Terry wins. Says Funk is the only person who could pull this off, I agree. Bam Bam vs. Taz gets out of hand and police have to intervene. Tazz is kayfabe fired by Vince for opening up WWF to a law suit or some poo poo, he preps for a big return. Top guys (Austin, Taker, Sting) are having their own programs on their own separate shows because Vince doesn't want to risk his top guys losing to WCW talent. Duddley's booked in handicap match vs Road Warrior animal. Since Hawk didn't work for WWF at the time Animal gets beat the gently caress up and Duddley's love destroying a legendary tag team member. Triple H is a boring promo guy, talks too long, good worker to work with a guy who actually draws money, not really on his own. Triple H sent to get the IC title back from Funk and does with help of some kind (lol gently caress you triple H). Now that Vince has the IC title he doesn't want to fire Funk, tells him to show up at the pay per view for a special suprise December WCW PPV Foley is WCW champ. Funk wins a match of his own only to have the lights go out and come back on just in time to see Taker tombstone Terry Funk Sting beats Jericho. Vince s pissed because the fix was supposed to be in. Animal brings out a special guest, Road Warrior Hawk and win the WCW title. Royal Rumble Hogan comes back, cuts promo on Dusty and Flair. Austin wins WWF title Rock beats Jeff Jarret Rock cuts a promo on Sting During Taker's match Terry Funk comes out of the ring with a red hot branding Iron and nails Taker. (goons weep) Benoit vs Angle have an actual wrestling match for 20 minutes and wrestle to a draw. Dusty cuts promo on Hogan This is only the first 14 minutes of a 52 minute interview, I'll post more but it's not as cut and dry as that other card that was posted. He gives general time frames and notes that these are only highlights and outlines for the overall program, there's other poo poo going on too.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 18:31
|
|
|
Kentucky Shark posted:The other issue besides him being injury-prone was that he was also prone to injuring other people in the ring, so I think that would have stalled out his career eventually too.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 18:51
|
|
|
Karmine posted:Mr Kennedy comes immediately to mind. For the longest time, Edge kept going back on the shelf right when he was on the cusp of a mega push.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 18:56
|
|
Minidust posted:It's weird to think what would have happened if those matches went through and Ahmed ended up injuring Taker/HBK/Stone Cold. I like to think that Time-traveling Edge, last seen at One Night Stand 2006, showed up and pre-emptively injured Ahmed in order to rescue the future. (Hey we've been talking about fantasy booking these last few posts so I get a pass) You could pull it off with just having some masked guy do it, then when someone gets popular have them claim they went back in time when it comes time for their fued.
|
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 19:22
|
|
|
It's kind of tough to get the gist of Corny's Guest Booking through those bullet points because he cuts example promos like Flairs and I think Dusty's and they're REALLY good.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 19:26
|
|
|
Someone re-booked Cornette's PPV and it came out great. The key was to mix old and new guys and segregate all the old people into one 3 on 3 tag match.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 19:46
|
|
|
I haven't seen this interview, but based on the bullet points, particularly the Terry Funk storyline, it really seems to be subscribing to the worst Russo-era WCW "it's all a work" philosophy, with announcers talking about unprofessional Goldberg was for no-showing and how Nash and Steiner now have to improvise a finish.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 20:09
|
|
|
Wojtek posted:I think it would be awesome for some new comer to come and cost some guy an important match, then disappear for 2-5 years and return to build a career. Brett Dibiase already has half of that covered.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 20:13
|
|
|
CVagts posted:How about we just agree that the Invasion was a pipe dream and nobody could ever book it properly. This is so untrue. The hilarious/depressing thing about the Invasion is how every loving Tom Dick and Jane Smark who came up with an idea for how it should have gone down at the time had a better idea than THE ACTUAL BOOKERS. HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? Listen to some of the Wrestling Observer Lives from back then. The ideas aren't AMAZING, but compared to what we got they were the wrestling version of The Great Gatsby.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 20:20
|
|
|
Minidust posted:Has anyone injured their way out of as many pushes as Ahmed Johnson? I was just recalling a bunch of big matches that got canceled and it's pretty crazy. He was supposed to fight HBK at some point, a Raw in '96 I believe, but he got injured and the match was canceled. He was supposed to fight Undertaker when he turned heel, but he got injured (this pretty much messed up his whole heel turn and killed a lot of his heat). I think he was gonna fight Austin at some point too. There were other injuries on top of that and I think he was even in a car wreck at some point. Didn't he also have a bad habit of injuring people and stealing T's?
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 20:30
|
|
|
Captain Charisma posted:This is so untrue. The hilarious/depressing thing about the Invasion is how every loving Tom Dick and Jane Smark who came up with an idea for how it should have gone down at the time had a better idea than THE ACTUAL BOOKERS. HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? Listen to some of the Wrestling Observer Lives from back then. The ideas aren't AMAZING, but compared to what we got they were the wrestling version of The Great Gatsby. Ted Dibiase's fortune was built on bootlegging
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 20:33
|
|
|
Was any card ever as subject to change as the GAB 2006?
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 20:36
|
|
|
projecthalaxy posted:Was any card ever as subject to change as the GAB 2006?
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 20:44
|
|
|
Vengeance 2007 also comes to mind but not so much because of how much the card changed.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 20:47
|
|
|
TL posted:I haven't seen this interview, but based on the bullet points, particularly the Terry Funk storyline, it really seems to be subscribing to the worst Russo-era WCW "it's all a work" philosophy, with announcers talking about unprofessional Goldberg was for no-showing and how Nash and Steiner now have to improvise a finish. "I have absolutely no context and really don't understand what is going on, but I want to rip on Jim Cornette as well." At the very least watch the thing before you start bashing it, dude. Cornette had a lot of good ideas in it, and while there's a massive fixation on old farts, he was very much focusing on the promoes he knew these guys could deliver.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 21:02
|
|
|
Save Russian Jews posted:Ted Dibiase's fortune was built on bootlegging I heard he's related to a German kaiser. A certain Baron Von Rasche, you may have heard of him.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 21:03
|
|
|
Wojtek posted:I think it would be awesome for some new comer to come and cost some guy an important match, then disappear for 2-5 years and return to build a career. they kinda sorta did it with beth phoenix.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 21:32
|
|
|
CVagts posted:How about we just agree that the Invasion was a pipe dream and nobody could ever book it properly. Couldn't be more wrong. The fact the WWF could have easily signed Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Flair, etc. off the bat, hell could have purchased them when they PURCHASED WCW is just proof of how horribly planned out it was. Think if Goldberg kicked off the Invasion by spearing Austin. Boom! Instantly, you got something going with far more heat than what we had. Even *if* you don't do that, you could have had Diamond Dallas Page Diamond Cuttin' The Rock and proclaiming himself the real People's Champion. The loving worst, WORST thing and proof they planned to bury the whole thing was instead of waiting one goddamn week to do the Nitro/Raw split, and do it in ATLANTA GEORGIA, they did it in I believe Seattle where nobody gave a gently caress about WCW. Goldberg vs. Austin, Taker or Rock. Rock vs. Goldberg, DDP or Booker T. Hogan vs. Austin, Rock or HHH. There's just so many possibilities. And the undercard, you could have had so many team battles and such. This is booking WITHOUT loving STING. Sting didn't join the WWF because he saw how they booked Booker T getting punked out by Rock and he decided he'd be mis-used. What if Booker T got put over big? Sting might have got involved. Now you got Sting vs. Taker. My loving god would that be huge. Even if Taker was still being an American Badass and Sting was kinda of a Surfer with Crow paint. This is why the Invasion was a loving failure. They poo poo away every possible dream match, made WCW look like complete bitches, signed all of their major talent AFTER the Invasion and put WWF talents on the WCW side. I haven't even added ECW into this, and this is loving mountains better than what they had. gently caress.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 21:39
|
|
|
rotinaj posted:"I have absolutely no context and really don't understand what is going on, but I want to rip on Jim Cornette as well." If the storyline is literally "Vince is booking everyone to lose and gets mad when they won't," that poo poo is straight up loving retarded Vince Russo bullshit that Cornette has probably ragged on Russo for a hundred times before. It's a hideously retarded and stupidly funny card. No amount of ball-washing will change that. Cornette probably didn't care and just did the DVD for a paycheck, which makes trying to defend it even funnier.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 21:41
|
|
|
Guys like Goldberg Hogan Nash etc. can't really factor into any realistic fantasy booking of the invasion because they had guaranteed deals and got paid more money than they would make in the WWF to sit at home and do nothing.Lone Rogue posted:put WWF talents on the WCW side. I'm more willing than most to play devil's advocate and defend the invasion but this poo poo was just indefensibly awful. Karmine fucked around with this message at 21:46 on May 27, 2010 |
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 21:43
|
|
|
Lone Rogue posted:The loving worst, WORST thing and proof they planned to bury the whole thing was instead of waiting one goddamn week to do the Nitro/Raw split, and do it in ATLANTA GEORGIA, they did it in I believe Seattle where nobody gave a gently caress about WCW.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 21:44
|
|
|
Karmine posted:Guys like Goldberg Hogan Nash etc. can't really factor into any realistic fantasy booking of the invasion because they had guaranteed deals and got paid more money than they would make in the WWF to sit at home and do nothing. WWF could have purchased their contracts when purchasing WCW. They chose not to. Minidust posted:Wasn't that the last night that Nitro was on TV though? I don't think waiting one week was really an option. I'm talking Buff Bagwell vs. Booker T with Arn Anderson and Scott Hudson on commentary. The Raw/Nitro split show.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 21:44
|
|
|
Lone Rogue posted:WWF could have purchased their contracts when purchasing WCW. They chose not to. But wouldn't the talent themselves have to approve the buy out of the contracts? I dunno how all this works but I would imagine that the wrestlers would have at least SOME agency in it.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 21:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 17:31 |
|
|
Lone Rogue posted:I'm talking Buff Bagwell vs. Booker T with Arn Anderson and Scott Hudson on commentary. The Raw/Nitro split show.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2010 21:48
|
|