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Slung Blade posted:I would sure like a laser cutter Saw this, thought of you fine folks. http://www.justicenewsflash.com/2010/05/27/minneapolis-multi-vehicle-crash-bees_201005274483.html
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May 28, 2010 01:37
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Leperflesh posted:I guess I still don't get it. You're suggesting that you could save money by spending at least $10k on a laser cutter, vs. spending $100 each for hive kits. I think you need to factor in the cost of raw materials though, and maybe added labor, scrap disposal, and energy costs. The labor required to cut beehive parts with a laser would probably be negligible compared to that of assembling the hive. As for energy, a 130W laser cutter would use about 1500W of electricity. At $0.15/kWh, that's about 23 cents an hour to run the thing. And the laser should be able to cut more than one hive per hour. For raw materials... Has anyone here ever built a Langstroth hive from scratch? I can't imagine the materials costing more than around $30-40 tops, but I'm not sure. You certainly wouldn't have to pay for shipping. So all told, a laser cutter could potentially pay for itself after about 300-400 hives. Which isn't even that many as far as commercial production goes. Plus you'd need to get replacement parts (and possibly replacement hives) every so often. Not to mention shipping costs if you're not lucky enough to live near a beekeeping supplier. Though just how thick are the outer walls of a typical hive? I don't think an inexpensive laser cutter could handle anything above 1/2".
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May 29, 2010 03:42
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3/4" according to http://www.beesource.com/files/10frlang.pdf
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May 29, 2010 03:53
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It just seems like gigantic overkill to me. I mean, the bits of a hive are very simple. You should be able to do it all with a basic bandsaw, and maybe also a router, instead of like $10k of kit. It's a bunch of straight pieces of wood, some of which have notches cut into them, and some panels, which if you want you can cut dovetails into. The question isn't really "could I make beehives with a laser cutter"; it's "what's the cheapest effective way to make beehives". And then, "does doing this save enough money to be worth the efforts". Companies that make tens of thousands of beehives a year probably have better efficiencies than you doing it in your garage, even if you make a few hundred; yes, they also collect a profit, but my understanding is that that profit is pretty slim. But I don't really want to argue this much more. If you can do the math and you think you can make it work, please go ahead! Take pictures and let us know how it works out! I'm just a pessimist about these kinds of ideas in general.
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May 29, 2010 08:10
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Cockmaster posted:For raw materials... Has anyone here ever built a Langstroth hive from scratch? I can't imagine the materials costing more than around $30-40 tops, but I'm not sure. You certainly wouldn't have to pay for shipping. I did, I went and bought dimensional lumber from the big box down the street. I built two hives consisting of a bottom board, a deep, two mediums, inner cover, outer cover with $57 worth of lumber. Throw in a can of paint, some nails, and a $14 sheet of roofing tin that I used less than half of and I had less than $100 in for the both of them. The frames I bought because cutting all those little pieces for 60 frames seemed like more time than I was willing to commit. It was a fun project, but I'll order pre-cut stuff and just assemble if I expand in the future as the DIY was more time consuming than I imagined.
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May 30, 2010 13:26
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Well, I did a brief hive inspection today, and my hive is a mess. On the plus side, during my very brief foray I saw plenty of larvae, which means the queen was alive as of a couple days ago. I didn't have time to check for eggs, so I am hoping there are plenty of those as well. The big problem is those upside down frames. (In case you don't remember, I cut several Lang frames to fit the TBH, then put the remaining 2 in the other end, upside-down, to give the bees time to hatch out and remove the remaining honey from those 2). The bees have completely relocated all their work and brood-raising to those frames. The hanging frames are being ignored, and only being used for nectar and pollen storage. Anyhow, here are some pics. (I started off bare-handed and then got stung twice while trying to mess with those upside down frames, so went with the gloves again) The end where the bees SHOULD be living:  The end where they are ACTUALLY living:   You can see that the cropped frames are empty, except for nectar and pollen (almost no honey going on anymore)  So, I have no idea what to do about this whole thing, and I have to say, I am 100% wishing I had gone with the Langstroth hive, even though it is more expensive.
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May 30, 2010 18:50
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Ishamael posted:So, I have no idea what to do about this whole thing, and I have to say, I am 100% wishing I had gone with the Langstroth hive, even though it is more expensive.  That is a mess all right. The only thing I can really suggest is cut an excluder down to fit your box then brush the bees so the queen is on the hanging comb side.
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May 30, 2010 22:19
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Tanisen posted:
That still doesn't solve my problem, because those upside down frames are full of brood. I can't remove them while they are full of bees. And, to be honest, I would be surprised if I could get the tolerances tight enough on a cut-down excluder to make sure that the queen couldn't get from side to side. EDIT: The more I think about it, the more annoyed I am at the Top Bar Hive community. I got into this as a more natural, less intrusive form of beekeeping that was "great for beginners". It is more natural but not at all less intrusive, and a huge pain for beginners. First, it is much harder to get a package of bees to take in a TBH, from what I can tell. A lot of people on the TBH boards are having the same problem I had with my first package. This is partially because of the fact that there isn't a standard queen includer/excluder for a TBH. Second, putting a nuc into a TBH is just hell. Less intrusive, my rear end. I was literally sawing through unborn bees! And now the hive is just a mess. Third, there is no support community for the TBH. There are 1 or 2 message boards, and if I post a question it will go unanswered 90% of the time, and local beekeepers have no way of helping me, since they are all Lang hive people. So, while this may be a good thing to try once you have experience beekeeping, I would never recommend a Top Bar Hive for a beginner. I am glad to be getting an interesting experience, but it would have been nice to have a year or two of just solid beekeeping fundamentals under my belt before trying something this jerry-rigged. Ishamael fucked around with this message at 22:59 on May 30, 2010 |
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May 30, 2010 22:51
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Ishamael posted:That still doesn't solve my problem, because those upside down frames are full of brood. The excluder is the keep the queen from laying more eggs. Let the brood emerge and fill out your colony. Otherwise you could just pull the frames now and brush all the bees and queen in and force them to start more comb. Sounds like you want your brood though if cropping the frames bothered you that much. You can cover the gap from the side walls and the excluder with lots of stuff. Even tape.
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May 30, 2010 23:06
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Can't you just leave it as it is? Take your honey from the other bar comb once they start filling it out.
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May 31, 2010 00:18
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Sooo....some bees swarmed and decided to make home in a tree in our front yard (on a busy urban thoroughfare no less). We have two neighbros who keep bees, they're probably theirs. We tried contacting them but no one home yet. Say we wanted to keep them though...can we just leave them be in the tree?
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May 31, 2010 01:42
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dwoloz posted:Sooo....some bees swarmed and decided to make home in a tree in our front yard (on a busy urban thoroughfare no less). We have two neighbros who keep bees, they're probably theirs. We tried contacting them but no one home yet. If you want to keep them you need to get a hive setup ASAP. You've got a window of an hour to a day before the swarm moves on. What you might do is call a local beekeeper and see if they'll install the swarm in a hive for you. You'll have to pay them for the hardware and their time but that's probably your best bet.
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May 31, 2010 02:35
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I did my first inspection this weekend. Got my first sting out of the way and it was just from putting my hand down without looking. I saw a few eggs but lots of brood and larva. Not too much capped honey but there is lots of syrup and nectar. The frames he gave me are tougher to space properly than the empty ones I bought. So far there is only any weight to 5 out of the 10 frames. The hive. They're still only using about half the frames but they drank every drop of the little bag in about 2 days. Everything I read says to keep feeding them until they have their two full hives drawn out, at this rate it'll be all summer.  The furthest frame, it's all black but otherwise solid. It looks like they're just putting granulated sugar in there. You can see the comb is pretty wavy at this end as well. Not sure if I should get rid of this and just put a fresh frame in?  A nice frame of brood. I saw a few eggs and a pile of larva. No queen cells anywhere so I assume she's around somewhere.  Another healthy looking brood frame  This was my main worry, the cappings are dark and sunken but not perforated. It's on the second furthest frame from where they hang out so could it just be brood that got cold and died? 
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May 31, 2010 03:28
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You probably ought to stop feeding them. It looks like you've got enough bees that they should be out collecting. If they're storing the sugar, you need to stop for sure.
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May 31, 2010 03:48
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post that last picture on beesource.com and they'll probably be able to tell you what it is. To me that looks a little weird. I never had brood that looked like that.
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May 31, 2010 09:14
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Ghostnuke posted:You probably ought to stop feeding them. It looks like you've got enough bees that they should be out collecting. If they're storing the sugar, you need to stop for sure. The guy I bought the hive from had a bunch of raw sugar on the frames, I bet some just fell down there and landed on that bit of hive. They're definitely out collecting but beesource is telling me to keep feeding syrup until they have the 2 fulls completely drawn out. They're sucking it up pretty fast, they've cleaned up 3 pints of syrup since Saturday. I'm going to replace that nasty frame and the black one with fresh ones and take a better look at those cells and see what's up with them. Edit: Good news, they weren't capped cells at all. The bees just didn't have a uniform depth on the other side so the bits that looked capped are actually the bottoms of the cell with extremely deep cells on the other side. Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 17:45 on May 31, 2010 |
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May 31, 2010 17:34
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Yeah, definitely keep feeding them syrup. It stimulates wax and helps to convince the bees to keep building up frames. I'd get rid of that black one. The cells darken each time a generation of brood is reared, because they leave behind their crysalis. After many generations the buildup gets darker and darker. Black wax indicates a LOT of generations of bees... and that buildup gradually reduces the interior size of the cells. Eventually it's no good any more. Fresh cells will give the bees a better start. Bees will only eat dry sugar if there is no other nectar or syrup available at all; because they have to mix it with water first, which is an extra chore. However, powdered sugar is a treatment for mites, which makes me wonder if the previous keeper was treating for mites for some reason? Anyway your bees are making more bees, so you're probably in good shape. Keep feeding syrup and they'll build up the hive.
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May 31, 2010 18:27
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 Click here for the full 1459x1094 image. Hmm, why are the bees bearding?  Click here for the full 1459x1094 image. Guess I'll look insi- oh my god!  Click here for the full 1459x1094 image. We have bee-sign the likes of God has never seen! Guess that new queen is doing her job. 
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Jun 3, 2010 20:51
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Do you have enough frames in there for that many bees? If you do, but they're not built out yet, give them plenty of syrup. It stimulates comb-construction.
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Jun 3, 2010 21:37
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Leperflesh posted:Do you have enough frames in there for that many bees? That's a top bar hive, so they will build their own comb. The real problem will be running out of bars! And I think it's too late to be feeding syrup to your bees, at least where we are located (NC). My beekeeper said to not feed any syrup after the first month, or they wouldn't produce enough honey.
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Jun 3, 2010 21:59
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I've talked to beek's who have said keep feeding them syrup until they stop eating it. Haven't heard it does anything to honey production.
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Jun 3, 2010 23:29
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The main issue, as I understand it, with overfeeding syrup is that the bees will store it for later if they're not eating it now, and they can fill a lot of comb with the stuff, eventually crowding out the brood chamber. However, it stimulates wax production. If the bees are way behind on building comb, I could imagine feeding to help get them built up. I don't think this would impact honey because if you are low on comb, there's no place to put honey anyway. That said, I'm not an expert, I'm just repeating what I was told.
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Jun 3, 2010 23:48
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We are still feeding syrup to our two hives (in NC) but they are also still building up. We just put a third medium for brood on top of our second colony last weekend and are planning on putting the third on our other hive in a few days, so they are still drawing lots of comb. They have been storing some of the syrup, but as long as they still have fresh foundation to draw comb on they don't seem apt to pack away masses of it (just a border around the edges of the comb like you would normally see). We're planning on removing the syrup once they're established in all three boxes.
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Jun 4, 2010 00:27
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Leperflesh posted:The main issue, as I understand it, with overfeeding syrup is that the bees will store it for later if they're not eating it now, and they can fill a lot of comb with the stuff, eventually crowding out the brood chamber. I actually did this with my very first langstroth hive. I didn't realize it until almost all the comb was stuffed with syrup. As for the topbar they seem to be doing 1.5-2 bars of comb a week. They build pretty fast.
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Jun 4, 2010 01:20
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Sorry if this has been posted (which it probably has) but can anyone share detailed plans for building a top bar hive?
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Jun 4, 2010 04:35
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dwoloz posted:Sorry if this has been posted (which it probably has) but can anyone share detailed plans for building a top bar hive? If you're looking for actual detailed plans (with accurate measurements/cutting instructions) you won't really find them on the 'net. There are some e-book on building TBH but pretty much you're going to have to go it alone. Just research the various TBH's out there and use the features you like. And smear beeswax on the inside when you're done, I really think it helped my bees fall in love with their new home.
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Jun 4, 2010 15:24
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dwoloz posted:Sorry if this has been posted (which it probably has) but can anyone share detailed plans for building a top bar hive? I built the one from biobees.com, but honestly I wish I had done a square-sided hive so it could accept Lang frames. So if you can find plans like that, it might be a good idea. I haven't seen any evidence that the sloped sides actually reduce cross-comb.
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Jun 4, 2010 19:02
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So for those not following, I bought a hive with a nuc pre-installed because I needed both. The layout from left to right now is 2 frames that are mostly brood, 3 frames of honey and nectar and then 5 frames with some nectar but mostly drawn out comb. It's been 2 weeks and they haven't expanded much at all, should I think about moving the brood frames to the middle, putting the honey/nectar ones on either side then distributing the empty ones to the edges?
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Jun 8, 2010 14:35
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Tanisen posted:
I'm no expert but that appears to be a shitload of bees.
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Jun 8, 2010 15:30
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Leperflesh posted:But I don't really want to argue this much more. If you can do the math and you think you can make it work, please go ahead! Take pictures and let us know how it works out! I'm just a pessimist about these kinds of ideas in general. Well, it was more a thought experiment than anything. And looking at those hive plans, I'm wondering if a CNC router (which can be built for a couple thousand dollars if you know what you're doing - there's a thread about that right here) would be more appropriate. Though if I can't find a decent job soon, I do have relatives who have between them two 100+ acre farms in Georgia. Is it feasible to have a commercial apiary (500 or so hives once things get going) relying mainly on surrounding wildflowers? And how many hives can one have per acre of land before things get too crowded (the farms are being used for other things, so I wouldn't be able to spread them over the entire property)? Neither farm is anywhere near any other beekeeper, so I wouldn't be stepping on anyone's toes. Of course, that also means I'd have to learn everything just about on my own, but it's not as if I'd be starting out right away with hundreds of hives. I was thinking I could use my technical background to build a lot of otherwise expensive equipment (extractors, wax melters, feeders, etc.), possibly inventing some cool new gadget in the process. Leperflesh posted:I'd get rid of that black one. The cells darken each time a generation of brood is reared, because they leave behind their crysalis. After many generations the buildup gets darker and darker. Black wax indicates a LOT of generations of bees... and that buildup gradually reduces the interior size of the cells. Eventually it's no good any more. Fresh cells will give the bees a better start. Is it possible to purify darkened wax by any means (so as to either sell it or turn it into beeswax-based products)?
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Jun 10, 2010 03:48
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Ishamael posted:I built the one from biobees.com, but honestly I wish I had done a square-sided hive so it could accept Lang frames. So if you can find plans like that, it might be a good idea. I haven't seen any evidence that the sloped sides actually reduce cross-comb. Great, thanks for the link, it's at least a starting point. I'd like to just build one "by the book" first and then experiment with more designs later. Have a bunch of scrap wood I've collected (pallets and the like) and excited to put it all to use
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Jun 11, 2010 00:22
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dwoloz posted:Great, thanks for the link, it's at least a starting point. I'd like to just build one "by the book" first and then experiment with more designs later. Have a bunch of scrap wood I've collected (pallets and the like) and excited to put it all to use That's fine, just think about the source of your bees. If you are going to get a package, know that your odds of making them stick are slim. (I have learned some tips for that, I will put them at the bottom) If you are getting a nucleus hive, you want to plan for the fact that you will have square frames that have to fit into a non-square container. Take it from me, cutting the frames is not worth it. So if you are going to get a nuc hive, or think you might, then make your hive in such a way that it can accomodate those frames. You will thank me later! (as far as tips for making a package stick in the TBH, I have seen it recommended that you put a queen excluder over the entrance hole to keep her inside, or add a frame with eggs/larvae in it, she won't leave open brood. Some people have also recommended smearing the inside with mud to darken it up, and putting the bottom board on for a while to make it darker and cozier. Lemongrass oil on the inside - a couple drops - is also said to help.)
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Jun 11, 2010 03:31
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I think my hive is doomed. I introduced a new queen last week and I didn't see the queen in the cage but only one frame of brood and its really crappy. I think the old queen was still in there and they killed my expensive new queen! arrgh...
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Jun 12, 2010 00:20
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Maximusi posted:I think my hive is doomed. I introduced a new queen last week and I didn't see the queen in the cage but only one frame of brood and its really crappy. I think the old queen was still in there and they killed my expensive new queen! arrgh... They're laughing at your weak attempt at a coup. Laughing!
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Jun 12, 2010 00:36
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If it's only been a week, you wouldn't see much brood if any; mostly just eggs. Assuming the queen is in there and laying.
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Jun 12, 2010 05:03
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well there were quite a few capped drone cells and eggs....sigh...DONT LET YOUR HIVES SWARM.
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Jun 13, 2010 07:43
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We added our first honey super a couple weeks ago (I think actually about 15 days) and it's already not only built out completely, but there's capped honey on all but the outer sides of the two outermost frames (this is a 10-frame medium with 8 plastic-base frames and two wooden follower boards). So we just added a second honey super. I am assuming the "spring flow" will end soon, but it's running very late here in california because as recently as last week we were still having occasional rain. I think it's possible we'll have all three medium honey supers full of honey by some time in July.
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Jun 15, 2010 02:59
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Man, my bees are bearding like CRAZY on the outside of the hive. It is about 100 degrees here and 90% humidity, so I think they are just cooling off. Still, it is a bit disconcerting. I will take some pics tonight.
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Jun 25, 2010 19:49
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Ours have been bearding a fair amount too, on warm days. Some superficial googling seemed to indicate that nobody knows for certain why they do it, but it's probably bees from inside the hive coming outside to cool off for a while. If it's too hot inside the hive, they'll be fanning, but ours just seem to hang out and mill around a little without doing much, so I don't think it's too hot for the brood chamber. Maybe just too warm for the regular bees to be comfortable for extended periods. My wife wants me to crack open the lid on hot days so they can have more ventilation. I figure we should do that only if the temps are up into the high 90s or more.
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Jun 25, 2010 20:02
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Here are my bees in the evening, cooling off outside the hive.   On the downside, I am afraid that I may have waited too long to try to right my hive. I got my queen excluder in the mail this week, so I opened the hive today to get measurements so I can cut the excluder to fit. The "feral" end of the hive has grown like crazy, with them making these cool-looking but totally uninspectable waves of comb in that end. I am going to cut the excluder, go through that mess and try to find the queen, put her on the other end and then hope for the best, but it seems like a crazy endeavor that probably won't work. More updates once I have tried it! Ishamael fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Jun 26, 2010 |
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Jun 26, 2010 19:07
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