|
I am watching the Raw after Bret Hart got "screwed," and I have a question about Ken Shamrock. He was billed as "The World's Most Dangerous Man," and I remember him always bringing intensity to the ring. Also, throughout 1997, he flirted with main eventer status, even facing Shawn Michaels for the title at a PPV. He also won the 1998 King of the Ring, so I would assume that Vince had something big for him.* So, why did he never rise above the Intercontinental title? * - Yes, I realize that the King of the Ring does not make a main eventer. see: Gunn, Billy and Mabel, King.
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 01:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 04:57 |
|
|
El Gallinero Gros posted:He wrestles In Japan a lot as Giant Bernard, the kayfabe son of George "Brute" Bernard. He's doing quite well for himself. Not just "a lot", Japan is his main gig. Twin Cinema posted:I am watching the Raw after Bret Hart got "screwed," and I have a question about Ken Shamrock. He was billed as "The World's Most Dangerous Man," and I remember him always bringing intensity to the ring. Also, throughout 1997, he flirted with main eventer status, even facing Shawn Michaels for the title at a PPV. He also won the 1998 King of the Ring, so I would assume that Vince had something big for him.* So, why did he never rise above the Intercontinental title? Shamrock was entertaining but didn't have the promo ability to be a main eventer. He could do great promos in UFC but it just didn't translate to pro wrestling. Twin Cinema posted:* - Yes, I realize that the King of the Ring does not make a main eventer. see: Gunn, Billy and Mabel, King. You're confused on your KotR failures. Mabel got a main event run with Taker. Ken Shamrock had a great feud with The Rock. Billy Gunn, however, completely failed on his, The Rock's, and the writers' part. WeaselWeaz fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Jun 14, 2010 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 01:28
|
|
|
WeaselWeaz posted:You're confused on your KotR failures. Mabel got a main event run with Taker. Ken Shamrock had a great feud with The Rock. Billy Gunn, however, completely failed on his, The Rock's, and the writers' part. That horrible Ryan Shamrock / Val Venis angle really didn't help him out, either.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 01:32
|
|
|
He also left to go back to MMA pretty early in his WWF career, so it's possible/probable he would have become a world champ at some point if he'd stuck around.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 01:48
|
|
|
I think Shamrock might have gotten a short run with the title if the WWE had a brand split and two weekly primetime shows back then. But he was never above being like the 6th or 7th most popular guy on the show, so there wasn't much room for him to be a real main eventer at the time when there was just one weekly show to build around. And as others said, he was terrible at promos compared to other pro wrestlers (though he was above average at talking up a match when he was a star in MMA) and was mediocre at best as a worker.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 01:49
|
|
|
The Rock seemed so primed to win that KOTR too but it's not like he needed which is probably why Shamrock got it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 02:32
|
|
|
The man had less than no charisma [negative charisma, he sucked, literally, charisma from anyone watching him - do you know how hard it is to even locate, let alone suck out the charisma from your average wrestling fan? He did it.], and his only gimmick was a lame rear end finisher that Kurt Angle made 1,000 times more dangerous in his first appearance. Ken Shamrock was the drizzling shits. Now that being said, he could easily have had a brief title run. It would have lasted two months at best and had he started it as a face he would have ended it as a heel and Vince would regret it to this day, but it was a possibility.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 02:35
|
|
|
I always thought Shamrock and Dan Severn should have been brought in with their roles reversed. I always thought Shamrock came off more as a kinda cocky, confident "I know all these ways to gently caress you up" dude in early UFC and Severn was more of a goofy, likable fun dude who would have ruled with a "happy go lucky until poo poo got real" gimmick. I don't even recall what was the reasoning behind Shamrock's heel turn, I just remember basically being the same character except with blue trunks instead of red.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 02:53
|
|
|
Supreme Allah posted:The man had less than no charisma [negative charisma, he sucked, literally, charisma from anyone watching him - do you know how hard it is to even locate, let alone suck out the charisma from your average wrestling fan? He did it.], and his only gimmick was a lame rear end finisher that Kurt Angle made 1,000 times more dangerous in his first appearance. Ken Shamrock was the drizzling shits. Now that being said, he could easily have had a brief title run. It would have lasted two months at best and had he started it as a face he would have ended it as a heel and Vince would regret it to this day, but it was a possibility. Despite all Shamrock's shortcomings, you can't say he had the worst charisma ever while, at the same period in time, Steve Blackman was out there  ing it up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 06:28
|
|
|
Brickhouse Betty posted:Despite all Shamrock's shortcomings, you can't say he had the worst charisma ever while, at the same period in time, Steve Blackman was out there Ken Shamrock was legit my favorite guy in the Attitude Era. He didn't need to use the mic, he just needed to snap and murder a fucker.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 07:03
|
|
|
At least both could act pissed off convincingly. Not everyone can do that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 07:18
|
|
|
Dylar Addict posted:Ken Shamrock was legit my favorite guy in the Attitude Era. He didn't need to use the mic, he just needed to snap and murder a fucker. Behind Kane he was my second. I loved watching him belly-to-belly like 80 refs a week.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 07:18
|
|
|
Burrito posted:Behind Kane he was my second. I loved watching him belly-to-belly like 80 refs a week. I still loved Wrestlemania 14 when he won the title, decided he wasn't done, and proceeded to murder everyone until they took the belt away
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 07:37
|
|
|
Burrito posted:Behind Kane he was my second. I loved watching him belly-to-belly like 80 refs a week. That and the constant internal bleeding during matches. I loved Shamrock, everything about him. He looked like a badass, acted like a badass, everything about him just screamed badass.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 07:39
|
|
|
Brickhouse Betty posted:Despite all Shamrock's shortcomings, you can't say he had the worst charisma ever while, at the same period in time, Steve Blackman was out there Shamrock is a guy who basically only had charisma and a reputation in WWE. He was an OK worker, but the guy just oozed badass. Even in UFC he was never a great talker, but he had an aura about him and was able to play off people like Tito who were giant douches and great talkers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 07:41
|
|
|
Ktik posted:That and the constant internal bleeding during matches. I loved Shamrock, everything about him. He looked like a badass, acted like a badass, everything about him just screamed badass. Plus he whipped out a fantastic hurricanrana
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 07:45
|
|
|
i remember when i saw shamrock as a kid they hyped up that he was a hardcore cagefighter from ufc. ufc was still in its infancy so i went to my local rental store and rented one show with him on the cover. i didnt understand what was going on, why pinfalls werent being counted, and thought the whole thing was stupid and the worst $2 i spent.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 09:15
|
|
|
Wheres the wh2k thread for the pre-conceived notions / common ideas in wrestling? Like Jack Evans will always win a dance off (except in El Generico's match) and when the bell goes, Delirious goes apeshit... Or will I now need an archives account?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 10:37
|
|
|
Dylar Addict posted:Ken Shamrock was legit my favorite guy in the Attitude Era. He didn't need to use the mic, he just needed to snap and murder a fucker. Ax and I are the same person? 
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 14:24
|
|
|
The A-Team Van posted:Ax and I are the same person? I am The A-Team Van?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 14:45
|
|
|
I think I would agree with what everyone has said here. Looking at the champions during Shamrock's tenure with the company, it was always given to guys who could make a claim to being the top few guys in the company. I have been watching a few Raws from 1997, and I have just been impressed by Shamrock. As people have said, he looked like a legit badass. And, the few promos I have seen from him have not been terrible. No one is going to confuse him with The Rock though. I also found it funny that in another Raw from this year they were promoting UFC. They had a bunch of footage of Shamrock pummeling guys in UFC, and talked about how it was a misunderstood sport.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 15:32
|
|
|
Twin Cinema posted:No one is going to confuse him with The Rock though. Yeah, Shamrock can throw a punch without mule-kicking and twisting his whole torso around. e: I don't really even want to start that argument again. I have a problem. Pneub fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Jun 14, 2010 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 16:15
|
|
|
Pneub posted:Yeah, Shamrock can throw a punch without mule-kicking and twisting his whole torso around. Looking at your hand does make your next punch harder. Try it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 16:48
|
|
|
Burrito posted:Looking at your hand does make your next punch harder. Try it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 17:28
|
|
|
The Rock wiggling his leg before he kicked a dude owned.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 19:22
|
|
|
The A-Team Van posted:Ax and I are the same person? Yo, A-Team movie ruled. I was disappointed by the lack of Van however.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 21:16
|
|
|
ultimateforce posted:The Rock wiggling his leg before he kicked a dude owned. I preferred when he did the wiggle before every stop
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2010 21:17
|
|
|
The A-Team Van posted:Ax and I are the same person? Were you also outraged when the WM 14 decision was reversed. I wanted Shamrock to beat the Rock for the IC title so bad back then.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2010 09:37
|
|
|
While I was in the state between waking up and actually getting out of bed, I pondered this question: If a currently employed, low-end midcarder like Yoshi Tatsu or Luke Gallows were to die by accident (and, for the sake of argument, it's non-drug-related and outside the ring), do you think the WWE would devote a two hour tribute show to them a la Benoit, Eddie, etc.? For some reason I don't think they would.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2010 13:26
|
|
|
DemolitionDestroyer posted:While I was in the state between waking up and actually getting out of bed, I pondered this question: If a currently employed, low-end midcarder like Yoshi Tatsu or Luke Gallows were to die by accident (and, for the sake of argument, it's non-drug-related and outside the ring), do you think the WWE would devote a two hour tribute show to them a la Benoit, Eddie, etc.? For some reason I don't think they would. I doubt that very would devote that much time to someone that wasn't in the WWE for that long. They'll probably give them a short ten second graphic at the start or end of the show though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2010 13:34
|
|
|
Does anyone else just not get the same feeling from modern WWE as they did from the attitude era? I mean obviously they are two totally different era's with totally different tones, but there's something that I can't put my finger on not just from the attitude era but really anything before it that is missing in WWE now. When I watch older wrestling I'm actually engrossed in the story to the point where I can suspend my disbelief but when I watch contemporary WWE programming, the whole time I think of it outside of kayfabe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2010 14:01
|
|
|
DemolitionDestroyer posted:While I was in the state between waking up and actually getting out of bed, I pondered this question: If a currently employed, low-end midcarder like Yoshi Tatsu or Luke Gallows were to die by accident (and, for the sake of argument, it's non-drug-related and outside the ring), do you think the WWE would devote a two hour tribute show to them a la Benoit, Eddie, etc.? For some reason I don't think they would. Punk would later cut a promo about how Gallows wasn't Straight Edge enough 
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2010 16:10
|
|
|
DemolitionDestroyer posted:While I was in the state between waking up and actually getting out of bed, I pondered this question: If a currently employed, low-end midcarder like Yoshi Tatsu or Luke Gallows were to die by accident (and, for the sake of argument, it's non-drug-related and outside the ring), do you think the WWE would devote a two hour tribute show to them a la Benoit, Eddie, etc.? For some reason I don't think they would. They would get a ten bell salute, like Pillman got.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2010 16:11
|
|
|
The Gobbledygooker posted:What are some of the best PPVs in the last 10 years? A bit late to this one, but Backlash '07 is often overlooked in these discussions. It's a six-match card right after making the PPVs tri-branded, 5 of the matches being good (yes, even the women's match is PPV-worthy) and the sixth depending on how much you enjoy crazy doo-rag Vince antics. Cena/HBK/Edge/Orton in particular is the best one-fall fourway I can think of.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2010 18:08
|
|
|
MassRayPer posted:Were you also outraged when the WM 14 decision was reversed. I wanted Shamrock to beat the Rock for the IC title so bad back then. It was mixed for me. On one hand, Shamrock lost the title. On the other hand, Shamrock murdered God that night
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2010 20:09
|
|
|
Rock retaining the title was made more awesome by the fact that after they reversed the decision, the belt is returned to him while he's on the stretcher and he raises the belt in defiance like a dick. WM 14 is what sold me on the Rock, and then of course there was "The Rock thinks you should fire him, Vince".
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2010 00:09
|
|
|
Have Generico and Delirious ever either feuded or tagged together, and if so, were the promos amazing?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2010 01:21
|
|
|
Dylar Addict posted:It was mixed for me. Over The Edge '98 had the perfect promotional poster for the PPV. It had a close up of Ken Shamrock's "I'm gonna murder everyone in the building" look. I thought it suited the name perfectly and its funny because he wasn't anywhere near the main event for it either or at all at that point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2010 03:46
|
|
|
Sue Denim posted:Does anyone else just not get the same feeling from modern WWE as they did from the attitude era? I mean obviously they are two totally different era's with totally different tones, but there's something that I can't put my finger on not just from the attitude era but really anything before it that is missing in WWE now. When I watch older wrestling I'm actually engrossed in the story to the point where I can suspend my disbelief but when I watch contemporary WWE programming, the whole time I think of it outside of kayfabe. I blame the transition effects they use between scenes rather than the jump cuts. Back then it was still being produced like a wrestling show, rather than today where it is written mostly by TV writers to be as much like a regular TV show as possible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2010 04:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 04:57 |
|
|
Burrito posted:Have Generico and Delirious ever either feuded or tagged together, and if so, were the promos amazing? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2sa0r_el-generico-vs-delirious-pt1_extreme http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2sa96_el-generico-vs-delirious-pt-2 This match was good, at least.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2010 04:37
|
|
