|
Mahuum Aqoha posted:I read that interview a while back, but it still seems to conflict with that timeline. Obviously Nier and company are hosed but it seems like there were a lot more androids (like the twins) in other areas of the world that were able to get the Gestalts to return to their bodies, and that was around 80 years prior to when the game takes place. The timeline also says that the last of the Legion was wiped out in 2800, so those people who un-Gestalted are good now? Or am I missing something really obvious? Okay, after reading through Grimoire Nier's timeline information like fifty times I finally found an answer or two to this: All of the Replicants in Japan at least are totally hosed, it's implied here: "If that happens, their respective Replicants cannot regenerate their bodies anymore. Also, the managers of the Replicant’s death and rebirth system, Devola and Popola were killed by Replicant Nier, so the replicants in that area will come to an end in this generation." That there are other "areas" of Replicants in other places, the Grimoire never seems to mention these other locations and beyond that all we get are mentions of other "islands" from sailors in Seafront. Whether they're referring to China (misconstrued as an island) or something simpler like the other islands of Japan is unknown. I'm taking it however to mean that there may be other "Replicant programs" throughout the world, but if I'm wrong and the deaths of Popola and Devola equal the end to the whole program itself than I'm totally wrong and everyone's hosed regardless. Can someone go back and read the Project Gestalt memos you get at the end of the game somewhere? I swear it mentions that there are other "Overseers" like Popola and Devola and if there are then that just furthers the idea that there are multiple Replicant fabrication facilities like the one in the Forest of Myth (mentioned in Ending E's "The Lost World" segment) By god, I bought this loving game twice and I will not rest until I totally understand and have Platinum in both.
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2010 23:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 22:08 |
|
|
Policenaut posted:By god, I bought this loving game twice and I will not rest until I totally understand and have Platinum in both. I fully appreciate your PSN import thread, but drat, I can't even get Yakuza 3 plat due to the sheer torture it is
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2010 23:21
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:Can someone go back and read the [spoiler]Project Gestalt memos you get at the end of the game somewhere? I swear it mentions that there are other "Overseers" like Popola and Devola and if there are then that just furthers the idea that there are multiple Replicant fabrication facilities like the one in the Forest of Myth (mentioned in Ending E's "The Lost World" segment) The documents were posted at the bottom of page 11. Popola and Devola are observers 021 and 022, and they mention an Observer Contact Group. Also, in one of the timeline passages quoted by Mahuum Aqoha, there is mention of androids in other areas that convinced their replicants to accept the gestalts. So either some places are now fine and populated with complete humans, or they still need demonic element to remain stable and the Shadowlord was just supposed to keep pumping it out forever or something and the whole plan was lovely anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2010 23:30
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:
I found the screencaps of them on this page of the thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3298798&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=11 The last one you get mentions an "Observer Contact Group" and that Popola and Devola are number 21 and 22 respectively. So maybe the rest of the world isn't hosed? E:FB I really want to buy that Yokoo guy, and anyone else from Cavia who wants to go, a bunch of plane tickets to come to the States. I will then take them out for a lot of drinks and get them to rattle off every last bit of Nier background.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2010 23:32
|
|
|
If I've got access to a 360 and a PS3, which version of the game should I get? The OP only seems to be discussing story/setting differences in Replicant (the Japanese PS3 version) but it otherwise says they're identical. Are they literally identical, or is it a FF13 type case where one version feels pretty superior even though they're supposed to be the same? Do they have the same graphics/audio? Are the loadtimes better in one version than the other? Does one version have like known bugs the other doesn't or any of that poo poo? Finally wanna buckle down and play this but I guess I'll do it right.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2010 23:52
|
|
|
Zombies' Downfall posted:If I've got access to a 360 and a PS3, which version of the game should I get? The OP only seems to be discussing story/setting differences in Replicant (the Japanese PS3 version) but it otherwise says they're identical. They're supposed to be literally identical, so it really wouldn't hurt you to get either version. They both have the ability to install (PS3 mandatory, 360 optional) to improve load times and I don't think the 360/PS3 versions have any exclusive bugs. So, uh, get it for the platform you feel comfortable playing it on (just don't buy Replicant because holy poo poo anime)
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2010 23:54
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:They're supposed to be literally identical, so it really wouldn't hurt you to get either version. They both have the ability to install (PS3 mandatory, 360 optional) to improve load times and I don't think the 360/PS3 versions have any exclusive bugs. Cool, thanks for the snappy response. I'm really excited about the prospect of playing a JRPG with an actually-interesting setting and characters on the current-gen consoles. I feel like it's been too long. FF13 was ok, but it felt like playing a music video or something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2010 23:56
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:Can someone go back and read the Project Gestalt memos you get at the end of the game somewhere? I swear it mentions that there are other "Overseers" like Popola and Devola and if there are then that just furthers the idea that there are multiple Replicant fabrication facilities like the one in the Forest of Myth (mentioned in Ending E's "The Lost World" segment) Wait what? there are multiple things here that don't make sense. Where was it mentioned that the Replicants came from the Forest of Myth? Also, what is Ending E?.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2010 03:20
|
|
|
Brackhar posted:Wait what? there are multiple things here that don't make sense. Where was it mentioned that the Replicants came from the Forest of Myth? Also, what is Ending E?. The Forest of Myth has a lot of cut content according to the Grimoire Nier, the Ending E titled "The Lost World" is a Post Ending-D sequence of events that was cut starring Kaine that takes place there. You can read about it here but basically it explains that the big tree in the Forest of Myth is actually a computer that was used to study stuff like the "demonic element" and quantum physics used for Project Gestalt, and that its maintained by a being who claims to have the power of control the life and death over all Gestalts, Replicants, as well as information in the area. In Part Two, the entirety of the Forest of Myth sequence is a reference to this. With the tree talking about "collecting memories". I have no idea why Ending E was cut, probably for time. There's clearly an entrance in the front of the tree that should lead somewhere but you can't go into it. But you're right, I misunderstood the meaning of the Tree at first and took it to mean that the Replicants literally came from it, sorry I should have really corrected myself there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2010 03:31
|
|
|
Wow I hope they add that as DLC. Maybe a bit much to hope for, but...
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2010 04:03
|
|
|
Hey, Cavia. I think it's time you released some more DLC. All-in-all, Replicant was pretty much worse off than Gestalt. I swear the game had more frame rate problems and issues with pop in than Gestalt did, and the fact that Kaine is censored is a real detraction especially when you take her little secret into account (which sort of lessens its impact). The Part 1 Nier is absolutely insufferable, he looks like a total idiot and sounds (fittingly) like a whiny child who Weiss gets to talk down to. Speaking of Weiss, they changed his name in Replicant to "White Book" (or as everyone calls him "White") which is so mindbendingly awful I can't comprehend why they would do that. You might as well just call Nier "Protagonist" if you're going to do this! There were rare moments though when Replicant shone brighter than Gestalt, usually coming to a point where the events unfolding in it made more sense than in Gestalt. Like early on when Nier visits Seafront and learns to fish, it made sense to me that he didn't know how to fish. He's 16 and he's probably spent his whole life just fighting. In Gestalt, he's 43 years old who at one point had a happy family and it seemed to me that at some point he'd have to have fished. In Replicant's first half, it kind of make sense that he would willingly go off and do pointless errands because he's such a good kid and thinks its in everyone's best interests but he doesn't know any better. Older Nier had that "Okay, I'll do it but I'm gonna complain a lot because I can't help helping people" angle which to its merit works almost as well. The one thing I'd say Replicant did the best compared to Gestalt was the Timeskip. As opposed to NIER's timeskip, where the only change to the him was an eyepatch and some grey hair, Replicant seems to actually have some real character growth. Aside from the obvious visual change of a 16 year old boy to a 21 year old man who wields bigger stuff and dresses like a Raiden cosplayer, Nier's personality grows out of that sunshine idealistic state and more into Old Nier's "I'm sick of this poo poo" mentality that I loved. He's prone to swear more, he's angry, depressed, but he still believes this can all be fixed and has the heroic bent to keep him right. He's become a confused young man who's desperately grasping at straws after 5 years of failure and frustration, he's learned harsh lessons about the world and becomes a better person because of it. It gives the feeling that this character could actually grow up to be the sarcastic yet angry older man in Gestalt.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2010 23:01
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:Hey, Cavia. What's that? e: never mind, I figured it out. I thought it was sales statistics or something 
Mahuum Aqoha fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jun 24, 2010 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2010 23:23
|
|
|
Mahuum Aqoha posted:What's that? The proof of an insane, insane man.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2010 23:25
|
|
|
I regret nothing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2010 23:27
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:Speaking of Weiss, they changed his name in Replicant to "White Book" (or as everyone calls him "White") Well, Weiss and White mean the same anyways, so
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2010 14:53
|
|
|
And a grimoire is a magic book.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2010 21:01
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:*Turns on PS3* Dumbass!
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2010 21:13
|
|
|
drat it'll be so good to finally beat this game so I can see the black bars. Wait, do I need to beat all the endings before I check the black bars? How long does that take? I've played for about 25 hours now and haven't quite gotten ending A.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2010 22:05
|
|
|
HenryEx posted:Well, Weiss and White mean the same anyways, so I just thought it to be a little too literal. At least when everyone's going around calling him Weiss, it sounds both like an actual name and kind of what he is instead of everyone literally calling him "The White Book"
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2010 22:44
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:I just thought it to be a little too literal. At least when everyone's going around calling him Weiss, it sounds both like an actual name and kind of what he is instead of everyone literally calling him "The White Book" That's because you speak English. You were playing Replicant, which was only released in Japan and meant only for a Japanese audience. Though the average person probably knows enough English to know what "White Book" would mean, the term would still sound foreign to their ears. In the same way most of the English-speaking audience knows that the term "Grimoire Weiss" roughly means magic white book, but since the words are foreign, it sounds foreign, and therefore like a name to us.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2010 23:15
|
|
|
Unrelated side note that I just remembered about Replicant's ending, I swear to God, Emil is saying "Nia-san" in that moment where he says the player's name at his last scene in the game. I've seen it like 4 times and every time it sounds like he's saying it. Though maybe Square pulled a Gestalt and put Kaine's name in too and hosed around with the sound to make it sound weird.Globofglob posted:That's because you speak English. You were playing Replicant, which was only released in Japan and meant only for a Japanese audience. Though the average person probably knows enough English to know what "White Book" would mean, the term would still sound foreign to their ears. In the same way most of the English-speaking audience knows that the term "Grimoire Weiss" roughly means magic white book, but since the words are foreign, it sounds foreign, and therefore like a name to us. I'll agree with the idea that to a non-native speaker the idea of foreign language being a name is pretty on the mark, but on that note I found it odd that "White Book" is said in Japanese along with everything else. There's no Engrishy attempt at like "Waito Booko" or anything, it's just the Japanese for the name and "Shiro" for his "Weiss/Weissy" name. Maybe that's why these games were even made like this, to keep everything sensible for both markets. I understand that USA Nier and Replicant were both localized in a different way for different markets, and I'm probably just not understanding some important Japanese cultural thing here though. Maybe Replicant just didn't want a foreign sounding name or maybe it wasn't even supposed to be foreign for them, but it's just something that I guess took me by surprise after getting accustomed to the USA version.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2010 23:43
|
|
|
Just wanted to say that this game has an amazing soundtrack, and that almost song has it's individual layers on the disc. It's crazy, nearly every single song has like four or five layers on it's own. Even the tracks with two or more singers have different layers for each singer. The piano track for the battle theme of the king of Facade is really neat. I have to admit though, the second play-through's revelations about the wolf leader seemed really contrived since the first part of the game established the wolves as the ones originally attacking the humans. Despite all the dialogue with the bosses, it still seemed the shades were pretty villainous overall since most of them appeared to be mindless or crazy anyways. Even the situation in the Aerie made it seem like the shades were just forcefully possessing the villagers rather than attempting to integrate with them. Really, the only shades that seemed sympathetic were the shadowlord, the kid, and Gretel. Fereydun fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Jun 26, 2010 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2010 00:08
|
|
|
Just started Nier this afternoon and I'm surprised by how good it is. Aside from the staggering amount of fetch quests, I really can't fault the game for anything. I'm especially enjoying the boss fights and sudden genre-swapping—overall it's been decently challenging and really fun. Not really into the plot or characters thus far, but I've only just had Kaine join, and I expect it'll pick up soon.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2010 08:04
|
|
|
I don't understand how the swapping of villainy in regards to the wolves is contrived. I mean... it's so much more heartrending to realize you're killing innocent wolves whose land has been taken from them. How is that contrived??
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2010 08:39
|
|
|
Lotish posted:drat it'll be so good to finally beat this game so I can see the black bars. I'd wait til you beat Ending B, but that second playthrough doesn't take long at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2010 08:42
|
|
|
Azure_Horizon posted:I don't understand how the swapping of villainy in regards to the wolves is contrived. I mean... it's so much more heartrending to realize you're killing innocent wolves whose land has been taken from them. How is that contrived?? I think the deal is that the wolves attack you constantly in the desert during your first playthrough for no apparent reason. And on your second playthrough, they are presented as sympathetic characters who are being hunted for no reason. It's kind of a weak thread in the plot. I agree that it's still a sad situation though. "Thank you for being my friend." 
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2010 14:43
|
|
|
Garin posted:Dumbass! How did I forget that  Fereydun posted:I have to admit though, the second play-through's revelations about the wolf leader seemed really contrived since the first part of the game established the wolves as the ones originally attacking the humans. Despite all the dialogue with the bosses, it still seemed the shades were pretty villainous overall since most of them appeared to be mindless or crazy anyways. Even the situation in the Aerie made it seem like the shades were just forcefully possessing the villagers rather than attempting to integrate with them. Really, the only shades that seemed sympathetic were the shadowlord, the kid, and Gretel. I think the city is one of those places that's mentioned in the supplementary materials where the Replicants were convinced to give their bodies back to the shades, so it seemed kinda intentional? That whole city was hosed up, couldn't really tell what was going on there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2010 14:49
|
|
|
Wasn't the conflict in Facade Part Two supposed to be that the wolves and the humans occupy the desert but there was only enough resources in the desert to support one of the sides?THE AWESOME GHOST posted:How did I forget that I think the only city that was purposely like that was just The Aerie.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2010 18:34
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:I think the only city that was purposely like that was just The Aerie. At least in the region of the world we got to see, yeah. I'd like to remain optimistic that humans from other regions would be able to repopulate the world eventually, but the game's director seems really set on making the endings as depressing as possible, so the whole world is probably hosed. Of course, that's mostly because I really, really want Cavia to do a sequel or a prequel or something else set in this timeline because of how awesomely fleshed-out Grimoire Nier makes it. Also it's gotta be a crime that the DLC Remixed Music haven't been included in an OST or released on their own.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2010 19:03
|
|
|
AuroMarshmallow posted:Also it's gotta be a crime that the DLC Remixed Music haven't been included in an OST or released on their own. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK7-jKUAhvU Sadly the individual layers aren't on youtube, though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2010 19:35
|
|
|
Fereydun posted:Second play-through stuff about wolves I don't think that the revelations about the wolves really makes it contrived, it just makes it clear that the entire point of that conflict is really about survival. The wolves are just predatory animals, so of course they attack and kill things to survive. It doesn't make it any less sad when they get killed, I think.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2010 20:06
|
|
|
I have a question about the Magic Stone quest. I spoke to the girl in the Forest of Myth, went to Popola, collected the item requested, and took it back to the client. Then I opted to have my fortune told and got a fun fight out of it, but I didn't get the Iron Pipe that I've since read I'm supposed to. Should I have turned down the fortune telling to get the pipe? Because it's the only weapon I'm missing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2010 00:13
|
|
|
Lotish posted:I have a question about the Magic Stone quest. I spoke to the girl in the Forest of Myth, went to Popola, collected the item requested, and took it back to the client. Then I opted to have my fortune told and got a fun fight out of it, but I didn't get the Iron Pipe that I've since read I'm supposed to. Should I have turned down the fortune telling to get the pipe? Because it's the only weapon I'm missing. The Iron Pipe is located in the back of the building where Yonah was in the Prologue, you actually have to go back and pick it up
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2010 00:18
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:The Iron Pipe is located in the back of the building where Yonah was in the Prologue, you actually have to go back and pick it up Gol durn it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2010 00:24
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:Wasn't the conflict in Facade Part Two supposed to be that the wolves and the humans occupy the desert but there was only enough resources in the desert to support one of the sides? That's the main reason I didn't really care about that conflict. Coexistence wasn't really possible. Yeah, it sucked for the wolves that they lost, but it wouldn't suck any less for the humans if they lost.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2010 00:25
|
|
|
InnercityGriot posted:I don't think that the revelations about the wolves really makes it contrived, it just makes it clear that the entire point of that conflict is really about survival. The wolves are just predatory animals, so of course they attack and kill things to survive. It doesn't make it any less sad when they get killed, I think. The wolves and the people have been killing each other for ages, so why does the shade wolf seem so shocked and appalled when some people kill some wolves this one time? The story is straight, but emotionally it seems like the playthrough B version tries too hard to win you over to the wolves, even as it reveals that the fight is completely natural and even. Also, the way that the big conflict is started by some random guards just deciding on their own to kill some wolves before the wedding. It's not close enough to the big conspiracy or the actions of any character you care about; it's just a thing that happens. Also also, by the time you get there you know the playthrough B formula - I was just waiting to see how they flipped this encounter around, so it came off as more mechanical because I was expecting it. That's how I feel about it anyway. It's not even really a bad subplot, the standard is just set pretty high. Tempo 119 fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jun 27, 2010 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2010 01:42
|
|
|
I got Nier a while ago, and I am pleasantly surprised. It's definitely doing its thing for me action RPG-wise. Also I looked through some scenes in Nier Replicant (that is to say, the Japanese pretty boy version) to see how the dialog and voices are different. From what I saw, it is an almost exact translation, except that Kaine's cursing is bleeped out in the Japanese (which is odd, since they don't really use cursing the way we Westerners understand it). It's weird to see tough guy MC's lines coming out of pretty boy MC's face in a high voice though. Though I suspect that the dialog was originally written for the pretty boy...
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2010 10:47
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:I got Nier a while ago, and I am pleasantly surprised. It's definitely doing its thing for me action RPG-wise. Yeah, playing through both I noticed times when events seemed to make more sense from Replicant's point of view compared to the Western version. It still doesn't make 16 year old version any less annoying though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2010 11:00
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:Yeah, playing through both I noticed times when events seemed to make more sense from Replicant's point of view compared to the Western version. It still doesn't make 16 year old version any less annoying though. And other 90% of the time the dialogue is more fitting for the father. Not to mention he has better animations and on the whole the VA is vastly superior to the Japanese version. We definitely got the better end of the stick this time around.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2010 11:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 22:08 |
|
|
It is of interest to me because this is my first time in a LONG time to be playing the English language version of a Japanese game (when a Japanese version exists). A few of the jokes work better in Japanese ("Shiro" sounds like a dog's name, which is why Weiss hates being called it), but other than that the English version appears to win.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2010 17:57
|
|