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Thanks for the advice. I think some Bach is exactly what I need right now, and should have the added effect of quelling my bad habit of over-using the sustain pedal.  As a somewhat related question - I just started playing Invention 8 - BWV 779 and on the 3rd measure there is the same F in both clefs. I've seen this before where people have marked up the same note - why? Should I put both fingers on it? Why not just write it in one clef?
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Jul 8, 2010 15:11
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RobattoJesus posted:Thanks for the advice. I think some Bach is exactly what I need right now, and should have the added effect of quelling my bad habit of over-using the sustain pedal. It's sort of academic, the idea is that that note IS in both melodic lines so it makes more sense to put it in both than it would to have a rest breaking up one of the lines or whatever. And if there was a rest there in one melodic line it might lead you to inturrupt your legato, say - I don't know the exact passage in question but you get the idea. Don't play it with one finger on each hand! Just pick whichever hand you like/feels more comfortable and ignore it otherwise.
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Jul 8, 2010 15:27
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Bob Shadycharacter posted:It's sort of academic, the idea is that that note IS in both melodic lines so it makes more sense to put it in both than it would to have a rest breaking up one of the lines or whatever. And if there was a rest there in one melodic line it might lead you to inturrupt your legato, say - I don't know the exact passage in question but you get the idea. Basically this. Although it isn't actually academic! Remember that Bach's keyboard work was primarily intended for the harpsichord, as the piano was yet to be invented! Harpsichords came in the dual-manual variety, meaning they had two rows of keyboards. These could be adjusted to have different sounds or "stops"; you could have a regular harpsichord sound on one level with a lute sound on the other. Playing an invention like this, with one hand on each keyboard, gives it the sound of two different instruments, letting you hear the different voices more easily. It also means you can hold a note with one hand and then play the same note again on the lower keyboard with the other hand without releasing the first. It's pretty unnecessary for the vast majority of his works, but certain three part inventions (looking at you B minor) and a lot of the Goldbergs become immensely easier. Here's what I was talking about with different stops. And yeah some of the middle movements of English Suites (menuets, gavottes) are easier than inventions because they don't give each hand equal difficulty, so feel free to check those out.
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Jul 8, 2010 21:33
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Oh lord, it's embarrassing that I didn't think of that too. I'm too piano biased! One of these days my dad and I are going to buy a "build your own harpsichord" kit and make one, they are pretty loving awesome. But first we have to remodel my entire house (my dad is an excellent source of slave labor and small personal loans).
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Jul 8, 2010 21:52
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Bob Shadycharacter posted:Oh lord, it's embarrassing that I didn't think of that too. I'm too piano biased! Ya my dad's working on his third right now iirc, they're totally awesome. But one day I will talk him into building a pedal harpsichord addon  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv64B1bG5jA&feature=related
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Jul 8, 2010 21:57
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Blog Free or Die posted:Ya my dad's working on his third right now iirc, they're totally awesome. Wow, those are beautiful instruments. Speaking of pedals, I've always secretly wanted a Yamaha Electone after seeing this video (I feel like I'm lowering the tone significantly here ):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16oaGSltUPE&feature=player_embedded! Although it's ugly as gently caress and looks like an Ikea desk and an organ had a bastard love-child, but I'm guessing it's a hell of a lot cheaper than a real antique harpsichord (and a lot more nerdy...)
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Jul 8, 2010 23:34
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Are most people able to play the part of the white key that's sandwiched between the black keys? For instance if I play a chord that contains C#, G, and Bb, my middle finger playing the G can't fit between the black keys (without depressing them too) so I'm forced either to curl the finger in a position that's almost impossible to play, or turn my hand 45% to make it fit but feels very awkward. My piano teacher is female and teaches kids mostly so she hasn't encountered this problem really. I've seen lots of videos of male piano players and it looks like they all can play this comfortable position where the fingers play further up on the keys. Any guys wanna give some advice? Or am I stuck playing awkward positions?
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Jul 10, 2010 05:15
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Wild Bill Hiccup posted:Are most people able to play the part of the white key that's sandwiched between the black keys? For instance if I play a chord that contains C#, G, and Bb, my middle finger playing the G can't fit between the black keys (without depressing them too) so I'm forced either to curl the finger in a position that's almost impossible to play, or turn my hand 45% to make it fit but feels very awkward. My piano teacher is female and teaches kids mostly so she hasn't encountered this problem really. You're going to get more leverage playing low on the key. I'm guessing you're not trying to do something like hammer the key as fast as possible, which is really the only time you would want to play low on the key. If you look at Hungarian Rhapsody no. 2, you'll see this technique where the same key is played consecutively with different fingers low on the key to really accent the note. If you're playing a soft chord, you should play between the keys. It's possible that you're fingers are just too fat, but I have pretty fat fingers and can still fit my hands between the black keys. It just takes some getting used to. Maybe try stretching out your hand more, like put your thumb on the next octave or even the octave+two or three half steps to give your hand some extra stretch and that might make it easier to finger the note properly. You could also try transposing the piece into F# or B and then there are very few times you'll have to play between black keys. C#, G, Bb is some kind of diminished chord. It's not a major or minor chord. Just thought I'd mention that.
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Jul 10, 2010 06:44
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Monti posted:C#, G, Bb is some kind of diminished chord. G dim 2nd Inversion  .... I think
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Jul 10, 2010 10:28
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I have a really hard time getting out of the major and minor scales. The other scales just don't sound as good and I'm so used to the major scales now.  I play funny scales but I really pretty much always start and end on a major or minor chord and I relate weird scales to a major chord, for instance C#, D, D#, F, F#, G#, A, A#, B is a funny scale I play but it fits into F# major.Or something like G, A, A#, C, D, D#, F# I relate to the G minor scale even though normally that scale is G, A, A#, C, D, D#, F Monti fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jul 10, 2010 |
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Jul 10, 2010 19:54
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G, A, Bb, C, D, Eb, F#, G IS a G minor scale. It's just G harmonic minor instead of natural minor. Also, your scales are kind of a headache to read because you repeat letter names. As you can see, I rewrote your second scale so that it only uses each letter name once. Once you get used to it, it's much easier to parse than G, A, A#, etc.
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Jul 10, 2010 20:14
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Well, what I meant then was that I have a hard time writing music that doesn't use major or natural minor scales.
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Jul 11, 2010 01:05
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RobattoJesus posted:G dim 2nd Inversion Nah, G dim is with a Db not a C#. It's a C#dim7 chord with the third dropped.
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Jul 11, 2010 01:19
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Business Octopus posted:Nah, G dim is with a Db not a C#. It's a C#dim7 chord with the third dropped. um C#=Db
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Jul 11, 2010 01:30
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Oh, interesting. Some of the modes are pretty crazy sounding though, and very rarely used. Try mixolydian, for example G A B C D E F G. Lots and lots of popular music (I might even say the vast majority) uses it. Or try jazz scales.
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Jul 11, 2010 01:38
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I've never studied the modes. Seems like an interesting way to approach scales, but that one (mixolydian) is the major scale. I can start a major scale on any note. To me, that is just C major starting on G. I think it's pretty well understood that major and natural minor scales offer the strongest tone centering. I'm aware that C major centers on C and G. I tried to calculate the number of possible scales once, it's really mind boggling how big the numbers get. It was taking me so long to do the math because it's all addition. The number of possible ways to play 3 notes out of 88 is something like 109,736. Feel free to double check my math on that.
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Jul 11, 2010 01:53
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I guess I'm kind of being a hypocrite because of course the natural minor and major scales are corresponding as well. There is clearly a difference in emotional character between the modes. I just don't see the difference in the theory.
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Jul 11, 2010 01:59
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What modes are good that don't correspond to a major/nat. minor scale?
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Jul 11, 2010 02:12
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Monti posted:um C#=Db Sounds more like an Eb7 for the right hand with the root in the bass in that case 
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Jul 11, 2010 02:47
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Or just Eb major with a diminished root. Like I said, some kind of diminished chord.
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Jul 11, 2010 03:15
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Monti posted:Or just Eb major with a diminished root. Like I said, some kind of diminished chord. HARMONY CHAT I really need to work on my chord knowledge, mostly I just sightread but I need to start adapting stuff just from jazz notation. My studies show that turning Jobim bossa nova songs into waltzes could work very nicely but the scores I have aren't helping me enough. Need to hunker down and get used to it I guess 
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Jul 11, 2010 06:40
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Monti posted:I've never studied the modes. Seems like an interesting way to approach scales, but that one (mixolydian) is the major scale. I can start a major scale on any note. To me, that is just C major starting on G. I think it's pretty well understood that major and natural minor scales offer the strongest tone centering. I'm aware that C major centers on C and G. quote:What modes are good that don't correspond to a major/nat. minor scale?
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Jul 11, 2010 07:28
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Business Octopus posted:Nah, G dim is with a Db not a C#. It's a C#dim7 chord with the third dropped. C# to Bb is a maj 6th not a min 7th so wouldn't it be C#maj6b5 (no3rd) 
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Jul 11, 2010 10:29
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RobattoJesus posted:C# to Bb is a maj 6th not a min 7th so wouldn't it be C#maj6b5 (no3rd) Wouldn't C# to Bb have to be some kind of a seventh because c-b is a seventh? If you spell it c# and not Db I mean.
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Jul 11, 2010 13:22
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Any thoughts on a Yamaha P85 ST2? Euro goon, so it's a decent product for the price. I assume I can hook up some headphones to it. Can you take out the keyboard part and use it as such?
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Jul 11, 2010 14:11
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I have a keyboard and opened it for the first time ever (bought it years ago just randomly). It's a Casio CTK-541 and it feels awkward. There's no stand either and it's hard to get one nowadays. I was wondering what the cheapest keyboard is that has weighted keys? I figured that I felt something was "off" with the Casio. Hey, maybe I'm a loving idiot and this keyboard is fine for a beginner, I'm not quite sure. It's light as hell so I'm guess it doesn't have this feature. I'm a court reporting student so I can appreciate to some degree the proper feeling of keys under my fingers (I'm pretty picky about the tools and equipment I use). There are some parallels between the two. Dudebro fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Jul 11, 2010 |
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Jul 11, 2010 15:00
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TO UNDERAGE GYMNASTS
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ufarn posted:Any thoughts on a Yamaha P85 ST2? Euro goon, so it's a decent product for the price. I don't know if the ST2 signifies anything important, but from all the research I've been doing the P85 seems one of the best upper entry-level digital pianos in terms of sound and action. The only complaints I've seen are the small speakers and lack of audio out (besides the headphone jack, which it does have and which you'll usually want to use). Yamaha just released the P95, almost the same product but apparently the built in speakers are much better. If by 'take out the keyboard part' you mean remove it from the stand, then yeah. I think the stand generally costs extra/isn't bundled with the piano anyways. I've been hunting for one and I'm hoping with the P95 just out some people will upgrade and sell their P85s *fingers crossed*
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Jul 11, 2010 15:10
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plotskee posted:I don't know if the ST2 signifies anything important, but from all the research I've been doing the P85 seems one of the best upper entry-level digital pianos in terms of sound and action. The only complaints I've seen are the small speakers and lack of audio out (besides the headphone jack, which it does have and which you'll usually want to use). Yamaha just released the P95, almost the same product but apparently the built in speakers are much better.
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Jul 11, 2010 15:22
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Monti posted:I've never studied the modes. Seems like an interesting way to approach scales, but that one (mixolydian) is the major scale. I can start a major scale on any note. To me, that is just C major starting on G. I think it's pretty well understood that major and natural minor scales offer the strongest tone centering. I'm aware that C major centers on C and G. This is wrong, go try it. G major scale has F sharp, this is a different mode with a flatter 7. It'd be like playing a C major scale with a Bb. It has a little more tension. In Hindustani music this is the khamaj thaat, and you can give a melody some nice emotional character by alternating between the normal 7th on the ascent and the flat 7th on the descent. Try goofing around with some melodies where you're in the g major scale, playing F# when going up and F when going down. quote:What modes are good that don't correspond to a major/nat. minor scale? Major and minor scales are essentially just two modes that, in Western music, we translate up and down the staff and learned to harmonize really, really well in. All of the other modes (or at least the 70 other ones that you can mathematically create, which they've systematically done in Karnatic music) by necessity will not correspond to major/nat. minor scales, and haven't really been explored much from a harmonic perspective (although they've been elaborated fantastically from a melodic standpoint). I guess to answer your question a little better, here is a mode that is a little different than the greek modes, which shift in intervals of half steps and whole steps. This has two jumps of 1.5 steps, and its a classic mode in hindustani music, Bhairav. It or some variant of it normally will be played at the end of classical concerts. C - Db - E - F - G - Ab - B - C --H--1.5--H--W--H---1.5--H Hawkgirl posted:If you create a "new" scale, neat, but I suspect more often than not it would be derivative of an "established" scale. They can be but they don't have to be. There are entire musical systems based around this concept with a tremendous amount of variety and possibility. It just depends on what aspect of music you're focusing on. Yiggy fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jul 12, 2010 |
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Jul 11, 2010 16:07
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RobattoJesus posted:C# to Bb is a maj 6th not a min 7th so wouldn't it be C#maj6b5 (no3rd) C# to Bb is a diminished 7th, hence diminished seventh chord. C and B are always a 7th away from one another and are always labeled as such. C# != Db. They're enharmonically equivalent, but not theoretically. I think the best example for how theory can differently affect the sounds of notes is to examine the sound of an augmented second (as F to G# in A harmonic minor) as compared to a minor third. It's a pretty sharp difference despite the fact that they're enharmonically the same interval.
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Jul 12, 2010 05:54
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They're actually the same frequency, the same number of waves per second, and the same hertz. Also, they are the same key.
Monti fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jul 12, 2010 |
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Jul 12, 2010 06:25
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That depends heavily on what intonation system you're using. On a piano/other modern keyboard instruments, you're right. But choirs, orchestras, and bands all have instruments that can make minor adjustments on the spot. One of my professors passed around a sheet of paper every year that showed the adjustments from equal temperament one should make to create truly "in tune" chords. In that practice, the Eb in a C minor chord is different from the Eb in a Db9, which is different from the D# in a B major chord.
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Jul 12, 2010 06:46
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For me using Db instead of C# is more about spelling, making more clear what you're up to with the notes. If we're working in c-minor scale for example, and you say Eb, I know you're talking about the minor third. If you call it D#, that'll mean sharp second, and will mean you're up to something special. That's why you see stuff like double flats etc. Take Chopin's Etude op. 25 nr. 9 in Gb major for example. It's packed with double flats etc. It may look retarded, but it really makes it easier to read - makes the intention of the notes clearer. Using C# or Db depending on scale/intention etc, makes things easier to read and interpret, even though they sound the same.
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Jul 12, 2010 08:59
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All that just depends on how you decide to write it on the manuscript paper. I've seen two versions of Liszt's Paganini etude no. 3 on manu. paper(it's in A flat minor). One of them was written with sharps(the version I have) and the other was written with flats(the other version I saw). The first notes are all Eb/D#. It the same drat thing. It's just a matter of preference as to which one you think is easier to read. Quite honestly, with a Chopin or a Liszt etude, no matter how you write it on the manuscript paper, it's going to be rather difficult.
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Jul 12, 2010 09:47
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Business Octopus posted:C# to Bb is a diminished 7th, hence diminished seventh chord. C and B are always a 7th away from one another and are always labeled as such. Awesome, this actually made it all click in my head, also the "C and B are always a 7th away" has cleared up a few other confusions I was having regarding intervals.
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Jul 12, 2010 10:03
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Monti posted:All that just depends on how you decide to write it on the manuscript paper. I've seen two versions of Liszt's Paganini etude no. 3 on manu. paper(it's in A flat minor). One of them was written with sharps(the version I have) and the other was written with flats(the other version I saw). The first notes are all Eb/D#. It the same drat thing. It's just a matter of preference as to which one you think is easier to read. Quite honestly, with a Chopin or a Liszt etude, no matter how you write it on the manuscript paper, it's going to be rather difficult. If it's Ab minor you should write it with flats. If it's G# minor you should write it with sharps. I would guess that some versions appear with sharps, since that makes 5 sharps instead of 7 flats - "easier to read". Those versions should call it Paganini etude 3 in G# minor, instead of Ab minor, just to be consistent. But yeah same key anyways, so just a matter of preference.
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Jul 12, 2010 10:17
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It's called, "la Campanella" To play this piece, you need to have some serious hand/muscle control that goes beyond just reading the notes. It's an impressive performance piece. Monti fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Jul 12, 2010 |
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Jul 12, 2010 10:38
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Any suggestion on a good weighted keyboard for beginners that won't set me back too much since I'm not sure how deeply I want to get into this.
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Jul 13, 2010 01:02
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casio privia is 500$, it has weighted keys, but no speaker out, and it sounds pretty good. There are only a few sounds for it, but it is kind of meant to emulate a piano. It's piano sound is 4/5. edit: the volume knob on my privia just broke, it's stuck on 1/3 volume. I'm pretty pissed. Monti fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Jul 19, 2010 |
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Jul 13, 2010 02:57
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I have a Casio CDP-100. The speakers are crap, but I think I paid $399 for it, so I'm not complaining. A good buy if you don't want to sink too much money into it, and you won't feel guilty about upgrading in two years or so.
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Jul 13, 2010 03:47
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