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Things come spiraling down into poo poo soon after the grub is introduced 1/3 into the book. It worked for me at least because New Crobuzon became my favorite "character" in his books.
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Jun 28, 2010 19:28
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Wow how weird, I just read Perdido Street Station (which is kinda werid since I normally don't read books) and came to TBB for the first time ever to ask for similar books.
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Jun 29, 2010 09:07
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Agnostic watermelon posted:Wow how weird, I just read Perdido Street Station (which is kinda werid since I normally don't read books) and came to TBB for the first time ever to ask for similar books. Well you've got The Scar up next, similar style but even better! I still haven't finished PSS about 2/3 through though and yeah its very fast paced now, all sorts going on. Just met the Construct Counsel, going to have to read some Wodehouse or something after this just for a break from the grotesque.
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Jun 29, 2010 11:42
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The Perdido Street Station ending was a loving downer. almost all of Issac's friends die horribly, the ones that aren't are being chased by a drug lord, Issac's sweet rear end crisis engine is broken, yag's a rapist, and Lin is retarded Also is their any offical artwork? I really want to see how much of a goon Issac is and what the different races look like
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Jun 29, 2010 12:51
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Agnostic watermelon posted:The Perdido Street Station ending was a loving downer. almost all of Issac's friends die horribly, the ones that aren't are being chased by a drug lord, Issac's sweet rear end crisis engine is broken, yag's a rapist, and Lin is retarded True, but I loved the fact that when it seemed that Yag was going to kill himself when he realized that even what he did was not enough to earn redemption, and that even the people he sacrificed for deserted him because of what he did, he instead decided to embrace New Crobuzon. The motto for New Crobuzon might as well be "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore... that I might grind them all into the decadent and wretched mass of depravity that roams my streets." All shall love her and despair. 
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Jun 29, 2010 18:11
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This page is a pretty good illustration of why books about spaceships and elves being raped are so lovely. It's because the people who read them only want to be jerked off by the books and complain about anything that doesn't stroke their nerd boner. Just imagine the books about elf rape we could have if it wasn't for the nerds.
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Jun 30, 2010 05:29
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Agnostic watermelon posted:Also is their any offical artwork? I really want to see how much of a goon Issac is and what the different races look like I dont know how official it is, but there is the art that was in Dragon Magazine a few years back. http://njoo.deviantart.com/art/World-of-China-Mieville-48266205
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Jun 30, 2010 09:55
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Saerdna posted:imagine the books about elf rape we could have if it wasn't for the nerds. There was elf rape as backstory in Dragonlance 
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Jun 30, 2010 19:23
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Oasx posted:I dont know how official it is, but there is the art that was in Dragon Magazine a few years back. http://njoo.deviantart.com/art/World-of-China-Mieville-48266205 I always pictured them thiner, like a normal cactus but with arms and legs, i like the garuda in the picture though. The remade is pretty neat as well.
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Jul 1, 2010 05:23
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SaviourX posted:There was elf rape as backstory in Dragonlance In that case I am forced to retract my argument vis a vis nerds.
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Jul 1, 2010 15:24
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SaviourX posted:There was elf rape as backstory in Dragonlance There was also dwarf rape and dwarf pedophelia/torture/masturbation in a book called "Trial of Flowers" by Jay Lake which interestingly I bought because I wanted something in the same ballpark as Bas-Lag novels. It was set in a city with a cool name (The City Imperishable) and seemed to have cool main characters. ...dwarf rape.... Don't ever ever read this book. It was loving awful.
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Jul 2, 2010 11:36
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Read PSS a few months back and about 3/4 through The Scar. I think Mievelle is a fun author but hardly great. Very imaginative world building but lacks in character construction and plot. Whatever though; very fun books. Also, Dooooouuullll.
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Jul 3, 2010 09:06
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nosleep posted:...dwarf rape.... Don't ever ever read this book. It was loving awful.
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Jul 3, 2010 09:11
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Lester B. Pearson posted:I always pictured them thiner, like a normal cactus but with arms and legs  I keep trying to picture Cactacae as anything but this, but I just can't do it. 
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Jul 3, 2010 15:23
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that is exactly how I saw them, heh.
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Jul 3, 2010 19:53
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The John Bull posted:Yeah! Literally! I was going to mention this and then thought I'd come across like a nerd, but seriously. I don't even like FF that much, but the idea of them being threatening just makes me think "yeah well, they are dangerous, they can do that 10 Million needles thing or whatever." The illustration on the deviant art page is much better, but I'm still finding it hard.
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Jul 4, 2010 00:59
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nosleep posted:There was also dwarf rape and dwarf pedophelia/torture/masturbation in a book called "Trial of Flowers" by Jay Lake which interestingly I bought because I wanted something in the same ballpark as Bas-Lag novels. It was set in a city with a cool name (The City Imperishable) and seemed to have cool main characters. That was an ok book except for the worst of the dwarf parts. Avoid the sequel though.
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Jul 4, 2010 02:03
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The John Bull posted:
Just as well that Isaac's girlfriend was a Khepri not a Cactacae then. Just the thought of xeno-sex with one of those makes me wince.
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Jul 4, 2010 02:22
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It took me literally three stabs at Perdido Street Station (I had no idea what the gently caress is going on in the world building / no discernable plot during the first arc / assloads of names and poor description of the city) and 200 pages later on the third attempt, it sunk in. Holy hell, what a loving amazing book. I finished it now and I'm in shock at the adventure the book took me through, and how exhausted it left me feeling. The ending is horrifically depressing though, to the extent that I really feel like Meville has to revisit the characters either to ameliorate their lives or grant them some kind of mercy in fictional death. His imagination is unbelievable, and I really felt like I connected with the characters in a lot of ways, more than I have with some literature, for instance.
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Jul 8, 2010 08:17
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Love Mieville so much. Before I checked out TBB I was thinking of how awesome he is, and wondered if he would get any love here. Turns out you have great taste. The characters don't have to be likeable, I actually enjoy some of them not being so. I don't necessarily need to connect with a character to want to follow their story. I also quite like how grimey it is, and since I'm not much of a political person, I didn't get annoyed by any political message. The world building is amazing, and I also enjoy reading through lots of pages where nothing much happens storywise, just to see all the little details he has for Bas-Lag. I'd love to see more about Suroch, but then I also wouldn't...the crazy things that are implied are just enough to let the imagination go mad and want more. My favourite was The Scar, the epic sense of adventure keeps me re-reading it every 6 months or so. I kind of wish I hadn't read it yet so I could get that same sense of  when I read it again.I started a painting of a slake moth a few months ago, then my tablet broke and I've only just got a new one in the last few weeks so I'll post the unfinished thing. Sure it's not exactly as it might be described but it's what came into my head, and call it an interpretation. Also remember it's unfinished so half the body needs adding and more oily wing patterns and unfathomable chitinous limbs and things. 
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Jul 9, 2010 11:33
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While we're on the subject of Bas-Lag fanart. 
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Jul 10, 2010 04:25
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I've been probated for the last month, and I had something really cool I wanted to post about 2 weeks ago but I totally forget what it was. Oh well, have an awesome new interview by the AV Club! http://www.avclub.com/articles/china-mieville,43139/ Haplo26 posted:It took me literally three stabs at Perdido Street Station (I had no idea what the gently caress is going on in the world building / no discernable plot during the first arc / assloads of names and poor description of the city) and 200 pages later on the third attempt, it sunk in. Read The Scar. You will love it even more.
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Jul 15, 2010 14:16
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That's a great interview Hedrigall, and so is the comment thread for it. Thanks for posting it, somehow even though I am an avid AV Club reader I missed it!
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Jul 15, 2010 19:04
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Just picked up Kraken at the library, glad I got on that waiting list early!
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Jul 17, 2010 19:46
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Hedrigall posted:I've been probated for the last month, and I had something really cool I wanted to post about 2 weeks ago but I totally forget what it was. Oh well, have an awesome new interview by the AV Club! "Kraken was an effort to tap into that same kind of pleasurable ramble. In some ways, Kraken is more like Perdido, whereas The City & The City was a departure. It’s the kind of thing I’d like to do a lot more of. In some ways, this was getting back to what I was better known for." I can't tell if he's saying he'd rather do a lot more pleasurable ramble type language or stilted stuff like TC&TC. Though, reading further he seemed to emphasize this was the end of that type of, er, rumbustious writing for him.
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Jul 17, 2010 21:41
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I've just started reading both Perdido Street Station and The City & The City. The latter seems much better written, even if the beginning is a little dry. But, my God, does Perdido's prose get more tolerable? Right now I'm reading purely because the setting seems like an interesting hybrid of magic and technology (which I see in my mind's eye as being similar to the cinematics of Thief: The Dark Project, actually), but the prose is really pretty average. There are too many moments that feel like an amateur and not terribly intelligent writer wrote it - "and (...) and (...) and (...)", "Or... or... or...", "He pushed it open with his bum". It's taking me out of enjoying the story and setting. The City does give me hope because the prose is very clean, having said that.
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Jul 20, 2010 10:53
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Neurosis posted:I've just started reading both Perdido Street Station and The City & The City. The latter seems much better written, even if the beginning is a little dry. But, my God, does Perdido's prose get more tolerable? Right now I'm reading purely because the setting seems like an interesting hybrid of magic and technology (which I see in my mind's eye as being similar to the cinematics of Thief: The Dark Project, actually), but the prose is really pretty average. There are too many moments that feel like an amateur and not terribly intelligent writer wrote it - "and (...) and (...) and (...)", "Or... or... or...", "He pushed it open with his bum". It's taking me out of enjoying the story and setting. The City does give me hope because the prose is very clean, having said that. Nope, it doesn't. IIRC The Scar is a lot better though. I actually started Kraken last night and his writing style there is a bit annoying too. It started out sounding almost like a YA novel, and I'm still not sure I like what it's settled in to.
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Jul 20, 2010 12:39
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Nevermind, got to the part where the two guys come out of the box and kidnap him and I'm loving it now.
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Jul 20, 2010 16:47
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Nevermind, got to the part where the two guys come out of the box and kidnap him and I'm loving it now. The entire book is filled with ridiculous mostly unexplained magical occurrences like this and I absolutely loved it. It forces you to use your imagination to comprehend how things work in this alternate London.
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Jul 20, 2010 20:56
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Neurosis posted:I've just started reading both Perdido Street Station and The City & The City. The latter seems much better written, even if the beginning is a little dry. But, my God, does Perdido's prose get more tolerable? Oh hey, it's you from that other thread. China is awesome because he loves playing around with language, and each of his books are different in their own ways, for better or worse. Sometimes he goes overboard or too academic wankerish, but it beats most of the poo poo out there. Except King Rat. That was p amateur.
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Jul 21, 2010 05:14
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About 100 pages into Kraken, liking it so far, but its written in a strange way, makes it a little hard to read.
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Jul 21, 2010 19:56
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SaviourX posted:Oh hey, it's you from that other thread. Yeah, I bitch about prose a lot. I spoiled myself by burning through everything Borges, Gene Wolfe and Nabokov in a couple of months and now going back to more common sci-fi/fantasy it reads in a sort of average way. 
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Jul 22, 2010 05:35
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Neurosis posted:Yeah, I bitch about prose a lot. I spoiled myself by burning through everything Borges, Gene Wolfe and Nabokov in a couple of months and now going back to more common sci-fi/fantasy it reads in a sort of average way. Try Stanislaw Lem. Mieville has moments of great prose and moments where he's got a serious case of WATCH ME BE PRETENTIOUS going on. In this paragraph I will use the word "interstitial" as much as possible. I think the best reason to read Mieville is his imaginative vision / worldbuilding. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jul 22, 2010 |
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Jul 22, 2010 19:02
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I went to China's author spotlight panel at San Diego Comic-Con last weekend. Room was packed. He read a short story about a space elevator that will be appearing somewhere soon. He talked about how Kraken was his "shaggy dog" story and just about how embarrassing it is when two apocalypses show up at the same time. He especially enjoyed writing Collingswood. (And I liked her character a lot, too.) The language of the book overall was a bit tough to decipher sometimes, but you can tell he was having fun. It was a funny book in places. His publicist made his editor, who was moderating the panel, mention this write-up on the front page of the NY Times Arts section: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/24/books/24mieville.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1 It's funny how broody and mean he looks in publicity shots, but I had the pleasure of talking with him later on and he's really super friendly, funny, and just really, really humble. My coworker who wasn't familiar with him had this idea in his head that he might be a snob or something, but was pleasantly surprised. ETA On the panel, he also said he falls in love with certain characters when he's writing a book, but then he goes back and flips through his old work and suddenly he feels like they weren't as cool as he remembered. Like King Rat was from when he was going to drum n' bass clubs and young and Bellis was kind of... I'm trying to remember the exact words, but it was like she was self-absorbed or something. Also he wants to write interconnected short stories and he's completed a space opera novel. Trying to keep things interesting for himself. nixar55 fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jul 29, 2010 |
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Jul 29, 2010 02:56
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nixar55 posted:I went to China's author spotlight panel at San Diego Comic-Con last weekend. Room was packed. He read a short story about a space elevator that will be appearing somewhere soon. He talked about how Kraken was his "shaggy dog" story and just about how embarrassing it is when two apocalypses show up at the same time. He especially enjoyed writing Collingswood. (And I liked her character a lot, too.) The language of the book overall was a bit tough to decipher sometimes, but you can tell he was having fun. It was a funny book in places. His publicist made his editor, who was moderating the panel, mention this write-up on the front page of the NY Times Arts section: Yeah, she's had some really great lines so far. Goss has been my favorite though; his dialog will have me laughing out loud while at the same time having an "oh gently caress what is he about to do" feeling in the pit of my stomach. It's also been interesting reading the chapters with Leon's Ditto on the brooding in pictures/actual persona thing. He was being his normal self and I asked him if he minded me taking a picture, he said sure, do you want me to do anything, so I said act natural. So he threw on his brood-face 
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Jul 29, 2010 03:37
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Yeah, she's had some really great lines so far. Goss has been my favorite though; his dialog will have me laughing out loud while at the same time having an "oh gently caress what is he about to do" feeling in the pit of my stomach. It's also been interesting reading the chapters with Leon's Leon's girlfriend (i cant remember her name) is my favourite side character. I really loved all the chapters featuring her.
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Jul 29, 2010 04:56
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Marge. Yeah, I finished it up today, and that was a gently caress of a ride. Seemed like he was channeling more of the pretentious wordy style of TC&TC but also the fun and vividness of Iron Council, so it was all good. I always get so worn out about the density of ideas in his books and think 'where will he even go next', but the last 100 pages of the book were pure gold, once everything had been set up. It's the magic trick formula to writing a mystery; introduce the elements, take some away, bring them back later when you're sure the audience has moved on. The last five pages did bug me, though, since it wasn't much of an epilogue. The awkward phrases and pop culture references were both awesome and eye-rolling at the same time. How does he do that? And to the poster that called it bland and derivative, go gently caress yourself. Best Goss and Subby part: making the one guy a puppet yeesh. I do wish he'd gone more into the: Tattoo -> ink connection that was the undercurrent to Gris and Billy and Dane tho Overall, I'd say that his character work has improved, but I think I personally love IC the most. (having only half-finished The Scar, of course)
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Jul 30, 2010 06:50
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SaviourX posted:Overall, I'd say that his character work has improved, but I think I personally love IC the most. (having only half-finished The Scar, of course) Only half-finished? WHAT? But yeah, IC and The Scar are still tied in my mind as my favourite fantasy books of all time. Kraken is my favourite of his non Bas-Lag books. If I had to do the cheesy thing and rate all his books from favourite to least favourite, it would go: (Scar & IC) > Kraken > PSS > TC&TC > LFJ > ULD > KR Even Un Lun Dun and King Rat I love to bits, just not as much as the others. They are the ones I am least inclined to re-read, I guess.
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Jul 30, 2010 07:14
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I've read several of his books now and I have concluded that while he has an incredible imagination, he isn't that great of a writer. His ideas are fun, mind bending, and enjoyable. However, his prose is bland and cumbersome. I think he could be an excellent writer if he somehow was able to make his actual writing more interesting, because he has some excellent stories in him.
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Aug 1, 2010 08:40
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Hedrigall posted:Only half-finished? WHAT? I had to read Kraken before it was due at the library. That, and I'm drawing it out because I don't want it to be over.
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Aug 2, 2010 04:32
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