NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

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adorai: Nov 2, 2002; 10/27/04 Never forget; Grimey Drawer

I've been using opensolaris for my storage at home for over a year now, and am pretty familiar with it. Yesterday I clicked a link for nexentastor and it seems pretty cool from what I can tell. I installed it in VMware and am quite impressed, with SAS disks you can even build an active/active HA storage cluster, with what is ultimately open source software. I'd recommend anyone thinking about homebrewing a NAS check it out.

# ? Jul 23, 2010 02:33

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# ? May 26, 2024 03:42

Zhentar: Sep 28, 2003; Brilliant Master Genius

How stripped down is the opensolaris base of Nexentastor? I'm considering making my NAS server also host a windows RemoteApp VM; Nexentastor looks interesting but I'll give it a pass if I can't easily set it up to host a VM.

# ? Jul 23, 2010 04:54

necrobobsledder: Mar 21, 2005; Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll; Nap Ghost

I can't tell if the cheapest option to go beyond 12TB for NexentaStor is actually $1200 or not because I don't feel like shelling out that much for anything more than disks and SAS/SCSI cards for my home setup. The things you can pay for are confusing to me. The other option I suppose is to have multiple servers with max capacity of 12TB each.

# ? Jul 23, 2010 05:12

dj_pain: Mar 28, 2005

So over the weekend I got some new goodies

A Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H and a Phenom 2 X6 1055T processor with 8 GB of DDR3 ram. I've installed two LSI 1068e sas cards and having them do RDM straight into my ubuntu VM where I have MDADM running.

I'm getting about 201 MB/s onto the raid so I am quite happy

# ? Jul 26, 2010 01:08

Cheesus: Oct 17, 2002; Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.; Yam Slacker

Lblitzer posted:

I think my DNS323 is crappy out on me, and I've only had it since March. Trying to wipe the drives from a RAID 1 to a JBOD config and whenever I try and wipe the drives to reformat them it gives me a silly error message. Even when I use one drive at a time it still gives me the same error. I can't even check the drives for errors because it fails right when it starts.

It sounds similar to a problem I had when going from RAID 1 to JBOD.

I believe part of the problem was hotplug. I swapped the drives, formatted one at a time, and was ok.

# ? Jul 26, 2010 04:51

Bobx66: Feb 11, 2002; We all fell into the pit

Can someone please tell me how I can disable all chkdsk functions on Windows 7? I seem to have stopped the one that loads after startup with a reghack but I can't figure out how to disable it before windows loads.

# ? Jul 26, 2010 06:31

Frinkahedron: Jul 26, 2006; Gobble Gobble

Newegg is putting the WD Caviar Green WD20EARS 2TB drives on sale as one of their triple shell shocker deals today for $99.

Is this drive ok to use in a Synology or roll-your-own setup running FreeNAS? I remember reading something about having to format them in a specific way to get them to play nice if you threw them into a raid but there's a lot of pages in this topic to search :/

# ? Jul 26, 2010 13:06

Bobx66: Feb 11, 2002; We all fell into the pit

Frinkahedron posted:

Newegg is putting the WD Caviar Green WD20EARS 2TB drives on sale as one of their triple shell shocker deals today for $99.

Is this drive ok to use in a Synology or roll-your-own setup running FreeNAS? I remember reading something about having to format them in a specific way to get them to play nice if you threw them into a raid.

I use the 1TB Green drives in my raid, you need to disable their TLER feature which is a deep recovery mode that takes the drive offline for long enough to gently caress up your raid. In order to do that you need to boot to DOS via a boot disk and run their program on each disk to disable it.

Kind of a pain but holy poo poo 2TB for 99 bucks. Seems like it might be time to make a raid 10.

Here is a walkthrough:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1191548

If anyone can help me with my chkdsk issue above I would greatly appreciate it.

# ? Jul 26, 2010 13:10

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

Use WDIDLE3.EXE too and disable their loving idle head parking, too. Or else, it's going to gently caress up your drive's lifecycle on mediocre use.

# ? Jul 26, 2010 13:20

Bobx66: Feb 11, 2002; We all fell into the pit

Combat Pretzel posted:

Use WDIDLE3.EXE too and disable their loving idle head parking, too. Or else, it's going to gently caress up your drive's lifecycle on mediocre use.

Can I get some details on this?

# ? Jul 26, 2010 13:30

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

After 8 seconds of inactivity, the heads are parked off-platter onto a ramp. Next IO, they're unparked again until the idle time-out is reached again. If you don't stress your drive well enough, you'll be racking up a lot of these (un-)load cycles. The drives are only rated 50000 or so.

WDIDLE3.EXE allows you to bump the time-out up to 30 minutes.

# ? Jul 26, 2010 13:33

Frinkahedron: Jul 26, 2006; Gobble Gobble

Combat Pretzel posted:

Use WDIDLE3.EXE too and disable their loving idle head parking, too. Or else, it's going to gently caress up your drive's lifecycle on mediocre use.

If I throw them into a Synology 210j I should still do this, correct?

# ? Jul 26, 2010 13:36

cage-free egghead: Mar 8, 2004

Cheesus posted:

It sounds similar to a problem I had when going from RAID 1 to JBOD.

I believe part of the problem was hotplug. I swapped the drives, formatted one at a time, and was ok.

No matter what sort of combination I do it doesn't work. It's giving me the error no matter what. :\

# ? Jul 26, 2010 14:53

yippee cahier: Mar 28, 2005

Frinkahedron posted:

If I throw them into a Synology 210j I should still do this, correct?

Check the Synology forums and FAQs. I think they support some "green" drives.

# ? Jul 26, 2010 16:16

Frinkahedron: Jul 26, 2006; Gobble Gobble

sund posted:

Check the Synology forums and FAQs. I think they support some "green" drives.

Found it on their website:

Synology FAQ posted:

To use this hard drive, we suggest that you reinstall the system with DSM 2.2-0965 or onward first, then reformat the HDD to adopt the WD Advanced Format Technology.

Simple as upgrading the firmware and reformatting. Looks like I'll be buying myself a couple of harddrives at 1PM EST

# ? Jul 26, 2010 17:27

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

sund posted:

Check the Synology forums and FAQs. I think they support some "green" drives.

If that thing can handle the APM settings on the drive, you won't need WDIDLE3.

# ? Jul 26, 2010 17:55

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

Bobx66 posted:

I use the 1TB Green drives in my raid, you need to disable their TLER feature which is a deep recovery mode that takes the drive offline for long enough to gently caress up your raid. In order to do that you need to boot to DOS via a boot disk and run their program on each disk to disable it.

Last I heard, WD disabled the ability to change the TLER setting on their consumer drives several months ago - did they reverse that policy?

# ? Jul 27, 2010 00:20

Bobx66: Feb 11, 2002; We all fell into the pit

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Last I heard, WD disabled the ability to change the TLER setting on their consumer drives several months ago - did they reverse that policy?

Holy poo poo!

http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=12977.40;wap2

According to this and newegg reviews you are right. This also says samsung and segate are afflicted by the same issues. What drive are people going to buy for their array?

# ? Jul 27, 2010 03:08

adorai: Nov 2, 2002; 10/27/04 Never forget; Grimey Drawer

Bobx66 posted:

Holy poo poo!

http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=12977.40;wap2

According to this and newegg reviews you are right. This also says samsung and segate are afflicted by the same issues. What drive are people going to buy for their array?

I believe the manufacturers hope it will be the "raid edition" or "enterprise edition" drives, for about double the price.

# ? Jul 27, 2010 03:18

Bobx66: Feb 11, 2002; We all fell into the pit

adorai posted:

I believe the manufacturers hope it will be the "raid edition" or "enterprise edition" drives, for about double the price.

So I mean, its all of the manufacturers? Do I get a better warranty with the enterprise editions? No one is going to have a decent consumer grade drive?

# ? Jul 27, 2010 03:23

Star War Sex Parrot: Oct 2, 2003

Bobx66 posted:

So I mean, its all of the manufacturers? Do I get a better warranty with the enterprise editions? No one is going to have a decent consumer grade drive?

The manufacturers are going to enforce a premium for RAID-friendly drives.

# ? Jul 27, 2010 03:24

PopeOnARope: Jul 23, 2007; Hey! Quit touching my junk!

Combat Pretzel posted:

Use WDIDLE3.EXE too and disable their loving idle head parking, too. Or else, it's going to gently caress up your drive's lifecycle on mediocre use.

Depends on the drive, strangely. I've found that drives with the onboard (Intel) controller have the issue, where as drives that have lived on a jMicron controller don't. I swear, the 363x is so lovely that it just might work.

# ? Jul 27, 2010 04:06

FidgetyRat: Feb 1, 2005; Contemplating the suckiness of people since 1982

Bobx66 posted:

Holy poo poo!

http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=12977.40;wap2

This also says samsung and segate are afflicted by the same issues.

I'm running 3 ST32000542AS 2TB drives in raid 5 with no issues. It's in a QNAP enclosure, so unless that firmware is specifically enabling ERC or some other features, I'd say these drives are RAID friendly. Haven't had an issue with degradation at all.

# ? Jul 27, 2010 14:24

an actual cat irl: Aug 29, 2004

Does anyone have any experience with the Western Digital My Book Studio Edition II 4GB?

I have a Mac Mini running OS X SL Server which I'd like to expand with some form of redundant storage, which would be shared across my network. The data consists of some Time Machine backups from various Macs on my network, and a variety of TV show and movies which I happen to be watching at the time (I tend to delete these after I've watched them, rather than hoard them indefinitely, so I don't think I require a more advanced RAID setup with the potential to add additional capacity).

Given my intended use, would a unit like this be suitable? Or can anyone suggest anything better? I remember hearing a while back that some people have had issues with certain FW drives going to sleep and not waking up again unless you manually power cycle them, and would rather avoid this if possible.

an actual cat irl fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jul 27, 2010

# ? Jul 27, 2010 14:49

Bobx66: Feb 11, 2002; We all fell into the pit

FidgetyRat posted:

I'm running 3 ST32000542AS 2TB drives in raid 5 with no issues. It's in a QNAP enclosure, so unless that firmware is specifically enabling ERC or some other features, I'd say these drives are RAID friendly. Haven't had an issue with degradation at all.

When did you buy your hard drive. This is a relatively new thing. Did you tweak your drives' settings when you first got them?

# ? Jul 27, 2010 14:54

FidgetyRat: Feb 1, 2005; Contemplating the suckiness of people since 1982

Bobx66 posted:

When did you buy your hard drive. This is a relatively new thing. Did you tweak your drives' settings when you first got them?

Purchased them a little over a month ago and no I haven't tweaked anything. Just popped them in and away I went. Who knows how long the drives sat in Amazon's factory though, but I hope this isn't true because if I need to replace one of the drives in the future, I'll be loving pissed at seagate if the new replacement drive won't work because they are dicks.

anyway, like I said, I don't know if the NAS's internal firmware is running any drive magic like setting hdparms on boot. I just pop the drives in and let QNAP handle the rest.

# ? Jul 27, 2010 16:08

Bobx66: Feb 11, 2002; We all fell into the pit

FidgetyRat posted:

if I need to replace one of the drives in the future, I'll be loving pissed at seagate if the new replacement drive won't work because they are dicks.

I have never felt so betrayed by computer hardware manufacturers before. Maybe Creative.

# ? Jul 27, 2010 16:17

Henry Black: Jun 27, 2004; If she's not making this face, you're not doing it right.; Fun Shoe

Any recommendations for a large case (similar to the one recently posted) capable of holding a good number of drives? I'd be open to going rack mount if need be, but pre-built NAS boxes aren't cutting it anymore.

# ? Jul 28, 2010 03:06

Zhentar: Sep 28, 2003; Brilliant Master Genius

LittleBob posted:

Any recommendations for a large case (similar to the one recently posted) capable of holding a good number of drives? I'd be open to going rack mount if need be, but pre-built NAS boxes aren't cutting it anymore.

I was planning to go rackmount myself, but it's pretty expensive. Fortunately, I remembered I had a rusty old Yeong Yang cube case in my garage. I don't know if it can still be found, but it was a lot cheaper than a rackmount case and holds a shitton of drives.

# ? Jul 28, 2010 06:47

NeuralSpark: Apr 16, 2004

LittleBob posted:

Any recommendations for a large case (similar to the one recently posted) capable of holding a good number of drives? I'd be open to going rack mount if need be, but pre-built NAS boxes aren't cutting it anymore.

I got one of these and am very happy with it. I spaced the drives out some and lost a bit of capacity, but I have 5x1TB WD Blacks, a Velociraptor, mirrored 2.5s and a 40 GB SSD in one with room to spare.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811182566

# ? Jul 28, 2010 07:52

BlackMK4: Aug 23, 2006; wat.; Megamarm

md10md posted:

code:
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   080   080   000    Old_age   Always       -       14811
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   001   001   000    Old_age   Always       -       1242235
Yeah, when I saw this I immediately bought the new drives and took these offline. They're serving as scratch drives for now until they die. Only about 15 months of action too.

From what I can tell: better (hopefully) quality control, better for long-term storage, and better temperature tolerances. We'll see.

Hm, well I am glad I checked my hdds because of this post.

code:

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   094   085   006    Pre-fail  Always       -       143554009
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   096   095   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       124
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   090   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       981348333
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   083   083   000    Old_age   Always       -       15217
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       183
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   045   040   045    Old_age   Always   FAILING_NOW 55 (Lifetime Min/Max 54/57)
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   055   060   000    Old_age   Always       -       55 (0 21 0 0)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   062   054   000    Old_age   Always       -       119374931
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       3
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
202 TA_Increase_Count       0x0032   100   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

and

code:

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000b   200   001   051    Pre-fail  Always   In_the_past 0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   146   137   021    Pre-fail  Always       -       3216
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   040    Old_age   Always       -       143
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   199   199   140    Pre-fail  Always       -       1
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000b   200   200   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   042   042   000    Old_age   Always       -       42455
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0013   100   100   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       140
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   094   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       56
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   199   199   000    Old_age   Always       -       1
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   200   194   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0012   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x000a   200   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0009   200   155   051    Pre-fail  Offline      -       0

Guess they are both failing. poo poo, that bottom one has been powered on almost 5 years. :v:

BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Jul 28, 2010

# ? Jul 28, 2010 08:32

PopeOnARope: Jul 23, 2007; Hey! Quit touching my junk!

LittleBob posted:

Any recommendations for a large case (similar to the one recently posted) capable of holding a good number of drives? I'd be open to going rack mount if need be, but pre-built NAS boxes aren't cutting it anymore.

If you want to invest now, you can get the Norco RPC 4020 which is basically a 4u chassis with 20 hot swap bays. Alternately get an RPC 450 and then add a 4-in-3 adapter to give yourself 14 drives. The 450 is plenty deep to, so if you wanted to fabricate a bracket, I'd say you can probably hit that 20 drive mark easily; just with a high difficulty to replace drives

# ? Jul 28, 2010 11:37

BlackMK4: Aug 23, 2006; wat.; Megamarm

Might as well crosspost this here, are there any cheap-ish (sub $100) mini-ATX cases that will fit like 3-4 3.5" hdds while looking fairly classy? (read: no gay LEDs / plexiglass)

# ? Jul 28, 2010 18:34

johnnyonetime: Apr 2, 2010

Bobx66 posted:

Holy poo poo!

http://forums.dlink.com/index.php?topic=12977.40;wap2

According to this and newegg reviews you are right. This also says samsung and segate are afflicted by the same issues. What drive are people going to buy for their array?

My .02 cents. I bought some WD Cavier Green drives for my Linux/NAS box and ended up using the Western Digital TLER utility to reflash my drives TLER read & write TLER time to 7 seconds.

Google led me to a copy of the utility. As far as I know it is not an illegal download, and you use it similarly to how you would flash a BIOS on a motherboard.

I enabled TLER on 4 1TB drives to make my RAID5 array using Ubuntu and mdadm. :woop:

# ? Jul 29, 2010 00:55

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

1) Even with the utility, newer WD drives won't let you enable TLER.

2) TLER is kinda academic for softraid anyway.

# ? Jul 29, 2010 01:13

BlackMK4: Aug 23, 2006; wat.; Megamarm

Ok.
ZOTAC IONITX-G-E Intel Atom 330 (1.6GHz, dual-core) NVIDIA ION Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo - $130
A-DATA 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model AD2U800B1G5-DRH - $40
LIAN LI PC-Q08B Black Aluminum Mini-ITX Tower Computer Case - $145
Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D Green 430W Continuous power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS 12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - $50
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31500341AS 1.5TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive - $79

Total: $444

vs

HP MediaSmart EX490, Windows Home Server w/ Intel Celeron 2.2 Ghz 2GB DDR2 1TB HDD installed (three open bay), 4 USB & 1 eSATA expansion ports , Mac Compatible, TiVO support - $440

Which way do I go here?

# ? Jul 29, 2010 11:01

The_Frag_Man: Mar 26, 2005

Does anyone know if the Asus Crosshair IV would work with OpenSolaris?

Edit: I checked the HCL, and it's not listed.

# ? Jul 31, 2010 09:57

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

Just FYI, since this is at least mildly related. In the next few days, some OpenSolaris community folks and ex-Sun employees are going to announce a real community distro called Illumos. It appears that this is an effort thanks to Oracle being gay about its own OpenSolaris distro (since the next stable release is a half year late now and there aren't any developer builds anymore).

--edit: I guess that the Nexenta folks are project leaders according to their site might make it a little more related.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Jul 31, 2010

# ? Jul 31, 2010 13:44

FISHMANPET: Mar 3, 2007; Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams

Combat Pretzel posted:

Just FYI, since this is at least mildly related. In the next few days, some OpenSolaris community folks and ex-Sun employees are going to announce a real community distro called Illumos. It appears that this is an effort thanks to Oracle being gay about its own OpenSolaris distro (since the next stable release is a half year late now and there aren't any developer builds anymore).

--edit: I guess that the Nexenta folks are project leaders according to their site might make it a little more related.

Well there aren't any developer builds because they don't want you to accidently upgrade beyond a stable release. I hear you can build your own release from the code, they're up to build 146 or something. But Oracle is really dragging their feet on this, and I'm pretty sure OpenSolaris is on its last legs.

Now if they would just change the ZFS license to GPL it could be in the Linux Kernel and I'd be happy as a clam.

# ? Jul 31, 2010 16:34

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# ? May 26, 2024 03:42

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

You have to change your repository manually to update to developer builds from a stable one. If you managed to update to a dev build, you didn't do it by accident.

# ? Jul 31, 2010 18:17

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

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