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Jerusalem posted:Well to be fair, Vince took an admittedly successful territory and turned it into the worldwide leader in the industry. It does play down his very real and remarkable achievement to say,"Oh his Daddy just gave it to him."
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Jul 29, 2010 00:10
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LividLiquid posted:He was the son of a millionaire who became a billionaire. And to think, Shane could have become a trillionaire.
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Jul 29, 2010 00:17
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Ok, I will give a reasonably profitable wrestling promotion that runs out of three states, with one major profit center, which is consistently overshadowed by the monopoly of promoters who are all allied entirely against you. In five years, you need to become the biggest company in the world. In ten years, you need to have defeated the monopoly you were competing against. In twenty years you have to become the monopoly. GO!
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Jul 29, 2010 00:24
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El Axo Grande posted:Ok, I will give a reasonably profitable wrestling promotion that runs out of three states, with one major profit center, which is consistently overshadowed by the monopoly of promoters who are all allied entirely against you. No-one's saying it's not a big accomplishment but being the son of a millionaire and calling yourself a 'self-made man' is a bit silly. Would he have been able to do this without being given the start from his dad?
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Jul 29, 2010 00:26
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Ziggy Tsardust posted:No-one's saying it's not a big accomplishment but being the son of a millionaire and calling yourself a 'self-made man' is a bit silly. Would he have been able to do this without being given the start from his dad?
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Jul 29, 2010 00:27
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Ziggy Tsardust posted:No-one's saying it's not a big accomplishment but being the son of a millionaire and calling yourself a 'self-made man' is a bit silly. Would he have been able to do this without being given the start from his dad? Normally, I would agree. But he didn't take a profitable company and make it more profitable. He took a small company, redefined entirely the industry he was in, destroyed all competition, and made more money than was thought possible for a single person. Yeah, he started well off, but what he was able to do with what he was given was so astoundingly beyond comprehension at the time its not like its unreasonable
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Jul 29, 2010 00:29
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El Axo Grande posted:Yeah, he started well off, but what he was able to do with what he was given was so astoundingly beyond comprehension at the time its not like its unreasonable This is a dumb argument now and I feel dumber for starting it.
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Jul 29, 2010 00:48
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Endorph posted:Have any wrestlers worked for WWE, WCW, ECW, and TNA? ECW and WCW only count when they were separate from WWE. Jim Cornette showed up in ECW as part of the WWF invasion angle, and ICP have made appearances for all four, if you want to count those.
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Jul 29, 2010 00:51
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El Axo Grande posted:Yeah, its kinda like if your dad gave you his old car and you turned into a transformer This post owns Iskanderson posted:if you want to count those. nobody wants to count ICP for anything
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Jul 29, 2010 02:52
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The Berzerker posted:nobody wants to count ICP for anything Especially album sales.
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Jul 29, 2010 03:46
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LividLiquid posted:Thank you. That's all I'm saying. He's accomplished a lot but he's far from a self-made man. People seem to think Vince was raised by Vince Sr. and such but that wasn't the case. Vince Jr. didn't meet Vince Sr. until he was 12. His first job was a travelling salesman. He took various small jobs in the company until being allowed to promote his own territory in Maine. He did a lot of personal investing and at one point owned an arena. He also wasn't handed the WWF, he purchased it. His father was pretty lenient in allowing him to slowly own it through almost a loan process, but if Vince Jr. didn't do certain things with the company, the deal would have been canceled. He really didn't have that much money and he admits that a lot of his supposed money was fronts and schemes until Wrestlemania. Vince Jr. was pretty close to a self made man. His father did a lot of favours for him and opened a lot of doors but he didn't fund his life and he certainly never handed the WWF to him. Vince Jr. purchased it.
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Jul 29, 2010 03:46
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Lone Rogue posted:Vince Jr. was pretty close to a self made man. His father did a lot of favours for him and opened a lot of doors but he didn't fund his life and he certainly never handed the WWF to him. Vince Jr. purchased it. Plus, Vince Sr. put a clause in the the contracts when Vince Jr. bought him out, that if Vince Jr. was late on any payments, then Vince Sr. could take the company back. So literally, the first time Junior screwed up, he was dead.
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Jul 29, 2010 04:30
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TL posted:Plus, Vince Sr. put a clause in the the contracts when Vince Jr. bought him out, that if Vince Jr. was late on any payments, then Vince Sr. could take the company back. So literally, the first time Junior screwed up, he was dead. "gently caress you, pay me."
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Jul 29, 2010 04:39
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Vince Jr. isn't a selfmade man technically, but he put in about as much effort and hard work as one. He deserves to call himself one even if he isn't. Stop being so pedantic.
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Jul 29, 2010 04:40
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I didn't know a lot of this stuff.
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Jul 29, 2010 04:59
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TL posted:Plus, Vince Sr. put a clause in the the contracts when Vince Jr. bought him out, that if Vince Jr. was late on any payments, then Vince Sr. could take the company back. So literally, the first time Junior screwed up, he was dead. The last payment was also a massive balloon payment that was barely met. Gorilla Monsoon & Pat Patterson would be the owners of the WWF had he not made it.q
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Jul 29, 2010 05:01
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WeaselWeaz posted:It plays into Vince's whole self-made man thing which ignores his dad basically giving him a very profitable wrestling promotion VINCE: "Goddamnit! I made this company with nothing but my own two hands and my father's company!" -Best Phoenix Edit: Vince is one of the hardest working people in the company. When he was on TV, he'd do TV on Mondays, Tuesdays and PPVs and run the company the rest of the week. He comes in early and stays late. Golden Bee fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Jul 29, 2010 |
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Jul 29, 2010 05:35
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Golden Bee posted:VINCE: "Goddamnit! I made this company with nothing but my own two hands and my father's company!" -Best Phoenix He's not just one of, he is by far the hardest working person in the company and it is one reason turnover in creative is so high.
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Jul 29, 2010 06:19
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Because they can't keep up with him, or because his expectations are insanely high?
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Jul 29, 2010 06:23
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Matlock posted:Because they can't keep up with him, or because his expectations are insanely high? I think it is both. Does he ever sleep
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Jul 29, 2010 06:27
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bobkatt013 posted:I think it is both. Does he ever sleep When you kill Dracula, you become Dracula so no.
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Jul 29, 2010 06:33
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bobkatt013 posted:I think it is both. Does he ever sleep No joke, rumor has it Vince doesn't sleep for more than 30 minutes straight at a time.
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Jul 29, 2010 06:52
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Endorph posted:Have any wrestlers worked for WWE, WCW, ECW, and TNA? ECW and WCW only count when they were separate from WWE. Psicosis
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Jul 29, 2010 06:56
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Endorph posted:Have any wrestlers worked for WWE, WCW, ECW, and TNA? ECW and WCW only count when they were separate from WWE. Konnan
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Jul 29, 2010 07:01
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rotinaj posted:No joke, rumor has it Vince doesn't sleep for more than 30 minutes straight at a time. Ya that what I thought I heard. He really is a workaholic and surprised that he has been keeping this pace for more then 30 years.
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Jul 29, 2010 07:03
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sportsgenius86 posted:Konnan MassRayPer posted:He's not just one of, he is by far the hardest working person in the company and it is one reason turnover in creative is so high.
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Jul 29, 2010 07:09
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LividLiquid posted:When was Konnan in WWE? He was Max Moon. I have a question about the next generation. Does Stephine work as hard as Vince? I am sure that Triple H is close, but what about Vince's kids.
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Jul 29, 2010 07:11
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bobkatt013 posted:He was Max Moon. Konnan was Max Moon for about 5 shows in 1992. By the time 1993 rolled around, Max Moon was Paul Diamond. The Konnan version of Max Moon appeared on Superstars once or twice.
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Jul 29, 2010 07:13
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This is a long shot, but I'm trying to remember a spot from a match. I think it's from a match with Jericho, circa 2000, maybe during his feud with Benoit. They're outside the ring, and Jericho (or whoever) is ramming the guy into the ring apron with his shoulder. The ref yells at him to get him back into the ring. Jericho then yells back, "I'M TRYING!" I always thought it was hilarious, but I can't remember seeing more than that one PPV, whichever one it was. Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about?
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Jul 29, 2010 09:14
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Matlock posted:Because they can't keep up with him, or because his expectations are insanely high? Because he likes to torture them. Creative meetings can last from the start of the day till the end of the night, during which time the creative staff will receive no food or water. Hunter, Vince and Stephanie will send out their personal assistants out for food and drink while everyone else starves and writes the show. It's also said that the McMahons will invite new members of creative in to their limo for a ride. Once inside Steph and Vince will immediately get on their phones and start shouting at whoever else is on the line. Hunter spends the time looking out the window and cracking crap jokes to himself. That's another thing, if Hunter tells a joke and you do not laugh then you are immediately labelled as not having a sense of humour and are the new target for Hunter’s hilarious gags. In short the McMahons are children.
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Jul 29, 2010 10:26
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I'm assuming Vince is a billionaire now but I'm sure he was just a regular millionaire for a lot of the years he was billed as a billionaire. When did he make his first billion?
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Jul 29, 2010 12:36
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Fallon posted:I'm assuming Vince is a billionaire now but I'm sure he was just a regular millionaire for a lot of the years he was billed as a billionaire. When did he make his first billion? I thought itwas when the company went public, and he's back to not being a billionaire.
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Jul 29, 2010 12:44
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The company's worth 1.2 billion, and he owns it. Depends on if billionaire is 2 billion or "more than one billion".
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Jul 29, 2010 13:14
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He doesn't own it though. He just has a majority stake. He's likely a billionaire when all assets are taken into account including his stocks and what-not but the company's public. No single person owns it.
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Jul 29, 2010 13:23
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Golden Bee posted:The company's worth 1.2 billion, and he owns it. Depends on if billionaire is 2 billion or "more than one billion". He owns shares in it, he doesn't own it outright. If he had 51% of shares, he wouldn't be a billionaire. Dunno how much he does own though.
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Jul 29, 2010 13:26
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It seems history is really getting forgotten in the interest of defending Vince. I'm not claiming he wasn't an amazing promoter or he didn't build WWE into the biggest wrestling promotion in the world. Both those things are true. What I am saying is that even though he can legitimately claim that success he is still to insecure he needs downplay the roots of his company. In videos he is willing to address its success but in the media he still plays up the image of the self made billionaire who built his company and wrestling up from nothing, which ignores the decades of success his father had and existence of successful promotions when he took over. His insecurity makes it so even when something is impressive on it's own he has to bullshit people.El Axo Grande posted:Ok, I will give a reasonably profitable wrestling promotion that runs out of three states, with one major profit center, which is consistently overshadowed by the monopoly of promoters who are all allied entirely against you. It was one of the most profitable promotions, it ran multiple large cities, its top stars were nationally known, and the WWF was allied with the NWA before Junior went national. El Axo Grande posted:In five years, you need to become the biggest company in the world. In ten years, you need to have defeated the monopoly you were competing against. In twenty years you have to become the monopoly. You have no picture of time. In the late 1980s it was still in competition with Crockett/WCW. In the early 90s it was on it's way down. In the mid 90s it was being killed by WCW. Of course it sounds impressive it you remove anything that looks bad. It's more impressive, though, if you include Junior's comeback in 1998. Also, don't think that going national on cable was Junior's sole idea. World Class and Georgia were doing the same thing, in Georgia's case it had national TV longer before Junior bought out the Briscoes and Jim Barnett to kill it. Lone Rogue posted:People seem to think Vince was raised by Vince Sr. and such but that wasn't the case. Vince Jr. didn't meet Vince Sr. until he was 12. His first job was a travelling salesman. Which he failed at. Lone Rogue posted:He took various small jobs in the company until being allowed to promote his own territory in Maine. Jobs his father gave him because Vince was a seen as a failure and had already filed for bankruptcy. Lone Rogue posted:He did a lot of personal investing and at one point owned an arena. An arena and was an investor in a minor league hockey team which played there. Both failed. Lone Rogue posted:Vince Jr. was pretty close to a self made man. His father did a lot of favours for him and opened a lot of doors but he didn't fund his life and he certainly never handed the WWF to him. Vince Jr. purchased it. Was Vince an amazing promoter who turned the WWF into an a nationally successful company? Of course. However, Vince claims he brought wrestling out of small, smokey arenas full of cigar smoke. Before Junior took over it was one of the most successful territories in the world and it's home base was Madison Square Garden. TL posted:Plus, Vince Sr. put a clause in the the contracts when Vince Jr. bought him out, that if Vince Jr. was late on any payments, then Vince Sr. could take the company back. So literally, the first time Junior screwed up, he was dead. No, Senior's partners did that. It sounds good, but Junior actually used the WWF's own cash to pay the partners. He bought them out with their own money. Very, very smart but not a sign of success.
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Jul 29, 2010 13:36
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WeaselWeaz posted:You have no picture of time. In the late 1980s it was still in competition with Crockett/WCW. In the early 90s it was on it's way down. In the mid 90s it was being killed by WCW. Of course it sounds impressive it you remove anything that looks bad. It's more impressive, though, if you include Junior's comeback in 1998. Also, don't think that going national on cable was Junior's sole idea. World Class and Georgia were doing the same thing, in Georgia's case it had national TV longer before Junior bought out the Briscoes and Jim Barnett to kill it. No one is saying he didn't fall and have difficult years. The point is that at the end of twenty years, he redefined the industry into something totally new and eliminated literally all his competetion. Of course you are going to have hard times, but like Cena, he overcame the odds and made some poop jokes doing it.
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Jul 29, 2010 15:52
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When SmackDown moves to SyFy, will it be keeping the same day/time slot?
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Jul 29, 2010 15:54
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WeaselWeaz posted:It was one of the most profitable promotions, it ran multiple large cities, its top stars were nationally known, and the WWF was allied with the NWA before Junior went national. WWWF was no longer a part of the NWA in the 1960s. Vince McMahon Sr. simply still had a seat at the table in the NWA. No NWA Champions came to the New York territory without very special circumstances. WeaselWeaz posted:Was Vince an amazing promoter who turned the WWF into an a nationally successful company? Of course. However, Vince claims he brought wrestling out of small, smokey arenas full of cigar smoke. Before Junior took over it was one of the most successful territories in the world and it's home base was Madison Square Garden. He's simplifying things for the media you're taking out of proportion. When Vince says he took it out of smokey arenas full of cigar smoke, he means he took a regional business and turned it national. Simply put. That is what he did and it's why he is the most successful wrestling promoter of all time. WWWF/Capitol might have been a successful territory with MSG, but it was still a territory. There were no national licenses. You couldn't watch it in California. You couldn't watch it in Dubai. You couldn't watch it in Sussex. Vince made that possible.
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Jul 29, 2010 16:03
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Edwardian posted:When SmackDown moves to SyFy, will it be keeping the same day/time slot? According to the press release, it premieres on October 1 at 8 p.m. Eastern, so I would presume so.
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Jul 29, 2010 16:52
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