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Roger_Mudd posted:Thank god Izzy is back, this place was getting dull! I think he got banned for some pretty blatant Jew hating in the Jewish a/t thread. We can only enjoy fleeting moments of the only law student to enjoy the arts.
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Jul 29, 2010 07:31
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Jew Bear posted:My friend's hubby just transferred from Valpo to Indiana University School of Law – Indianapolis (incoming 2L). From this thread, I gather that either means he's not totally boned or he'll be making $14/hr as a Costco clerk rather than $10/hr as a barista. It's kind of tricky. It used to be that no one cared what you did between 1L and 2L year, but these days it's almost expected that you did something law-related, at the least. Which is kind of a Catch-22 given the lovely market and the availability of recent grads falling over themselves to do volunteer work just to get experience for a resume. Some employers won't care, others will see it as a drawback. The one callback I got my 2L year was from a firm whose interviewer worked on the same case that I had written the opinion on while doing an unpaid internship 1L summer with a state appellate court. Didn't get the job, but it was obviously the internship that got the foot in the door, so they can be useful.
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Jul 29, 2010 07:33
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Jew Bear posted:My friend's hubby just transferred from Valpo to Indiana University School of Law – Indianapolis (incoming 2L). From this thread, I gather that either means he's not totally boned or he'll be making $14/hr as a Costco clerk rather than $10/hr as a barista. Several big firms hire their 2L summer associates out of their 1L summer associate pool, and as a result extend offers to all their 2L summer associates. It will also get your foot in the door for a clerkship if you can land in the right DA/PD office. The consensus is do anything. Firm's 1L associate > DA/PD > "externing" for a judge > research assistant for a prof > WoW and classes. Edit: To put this advice into context: I just told a friend of mine who's about to begin at Rutgers that if he didn't land a summer associate position to quit after 1L.
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Jul 29, 2010 08:01
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Firms aren't exactly throwing around 1L summer positions anymore. I worked for a midlaw firm 1L summer but honestly if I could do it all over again I would've just studied abroad 1L year. It's fun and the disadvantages aren't really that pronounced in this economy (there aren't any jobs anyway so you might as well have an interesting story to tell all the recruiters only showing up to OCI for free kolaches and taquitos).
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Jul 29, 2010 08:05
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:175 buddies what's up
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Jul 29, 2010 08:32
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i wish i woulda gotten like a 148 tbqh
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Jul 29, 2010 08:32
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Feces Starship posted:earlier in this thread izzy said he was attending a "top 4" law school and i now know what it is to feel true fear in my heart if only for a moment Haha, I thought it was just me for a minute.
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Jul 29, 2010 11:25
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Mr. Fictitious posted:i wish i woulda gotten like a 148 tbqh so are you quitting law school or no, I remember you said you were deciding based on this summer
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Jul 29, 2010 13:07
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Jew Bear posted:My friend's hubby just transferred from Valpo to Indiana University School of Law – Indianapolis (incoming 2L). From this thread, I gather that either means he's not totally boned or he'll be making $14/hr as a Costco clerk rather than $10/hr as a barista. Indiana is much better than Valpo. But it's still like being the guy in the second wave to hit the beach at Normandy. If you did something interesting it may be ok, but generally pretty boned. Other factors are also important. fougera posted:I'm writing a cover letter to carpet bomb firms with. How do I say something particular about the firm that interests me when they all have the same practice areas? I think you have to do one of two things: either actually figure out something to say about the firm (Chambers will tell you more specifically what they're good at) or don't include a cover letter. If you have the stats you can get away with an e-mail that says Dear [X], I am writing to apply for a summer associate position at [Firm Y]. Attached are my resume and a writing sample. Thank you for your consideration. I am available at your convenience to further discuss my application. [Warm regards][Best regards][Regards][Thank you][Smooches], fougera Solomon Grundy posted:$120,000 per year is not as much as you think it is. I completely agree with this.
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Jul 29, 2010 14:29
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Elotana posted:honestly if I could do it all over again I would've just studied abroad 1L year. It's fun and the disadvantages aren't really that pronounced in this economy (there aren't any jobs anyway so you might as well have an interesting story to tell all the recruiters only showing up to OCI for free kolaches and taquitos). I agree - my school had a summer-long South Africa exchange program that was relatively inexpensive and I regret not going more and more as time passes. Out of desperation 1L summer, I offered my services free to small/sole practioners and as a result got to "second chair" a personal injury trial and watch a bunch of depositions. It was worth the few free hours I spent, just to see the legal system in action. But then, I'm a lot less ambitious than the rest of the people on here. 2L summer I worked for the public defenders and took Trial Practice. Loved every minute of it.
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Jul 29, 2010 14:59
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Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 17, 2011 |
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Jul 29, 2010 15:26
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Elotana posted:Firms aren't exactly throwing around 1L summer positions anymore. I worked for a midlaw firm 1L summer but honestly if I could do it all over again I would've just studied abroad 1L year. It's fun and the disadvantages aren't really that pronounced in this economy. Personally, with so few jobs out there, I think you'd be putting yourself at a disadvantage if you didn't try your hardest to get something on the resume - unless your grades suck so bad that you've resigned yourself to thinking you won't get any kind of job, in which case you might as well drop out. Working at a non-paying legal job should still show people that you're willing to work hard (for nothing) vs. taking the easy road and you usually come away with a better writing sample than your 1L brief. Plus, hopefully you'll learn something (even if that something is just how to better use Westlaw) but if you're working for free at some legal aid clinic, hopefully you'll actually learn some real life skills and at least get some exposure to the practice of law. This may not be worth much but when choosing between like candidates, I'd say the person who worked for a summer vs. studying abroad will probably win. You can always take time off before law school to travel so you have cool travel stories to tell plus work stories. 1L firm jobs have never been plentiful and 1Ls were giving away their services even back in the good days, it's nothing new, it's just more competitive. In my experience, firms are not very sympathetic to the fact that the economy sucks so I wouldn't try to hide behind the "No Jobs" excuse and hope they'll be understanding.
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Jul 29, 2010 16:10
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Omerta posted:And the first signs of gunner tendencies appear. This is one dude's facebook picture From that same Facebook under favorite quotes: "My only fear of death is that I will come back reincarnated" ~ Tupac Shakur. Oh dear.
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Jul 29, 2010 16:18
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Not having a 1L summer job on your plate if you actually had that as an option is career suicide. Legal employers really don't care about whether you learned something during a summer at a school program.HooKars posted:1L firm jobs have never been plentiful and 1Ls were giving away their services even back in the good days, it's nothing new, it's just more competitive. In my experience, firms are not very sympathetic to the fact that the economy sucks so I wouldn't try to hide behind the "No Jobs" excuse and hope they'll be understanding. Anyone actually thinking that firms would be reasonable about taking the economy into consideration when looking at a job applicant needs to get a reality check. Legal recruiters are too overburdened or underqualified to make individualized judgments about whether someone is actually up to snuff, so they go back to the traditional markers about what makes a successful candidate. It sucks, but that's how it works. By the way, HK, didn't you have an interview recently? How'd it go?
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Jul 29, 2010 16:23
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Jew Bear posted:My friend's hubby just transferred from Valpo to Indiana University School of Law – Indianapolis (incoming 2L). From this thread, I gather that either means he's not totally boned or he'll be making $14/hr as a Costco clerk rather than $10/hr as a barista. You should congratulate your man on that move; Indiana University has a much better reputation than Valpo, and as far as I know the Indianapolis campus actually leads to jobs for people in Indianapolis. Valpo leads to jobs, well, I don't know where. Does your husband want to find work in Indianapolis? I got my 2L summer job through my 1L summer job, so I'd say it's pretty important. See if you can't volunteer at the AG's office or something; Indianapolis AG's office is very friendly and inviting; had I not gotten the 2L summer job I did, I would have gone to that office. EDIT: For reference, I went to IU as well, just the Bloomington Campus instead.
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Jul 29, 2010 16:29
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Omerta posted:And the first signs of gunner tendencies appear. This is one dude's facebook picture I've been listening to iTunesU lectures to pass the time on long drives for work. But the gunners make it almost unbearable. It's not that there are more gunners in ITU than there are in the general classroom population. However, the gunners are more vocal, because they know they are being recorded for posterity, and, worse yet, they are immortal, forever locked in gunnerdom in those recordings.
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Jul 29, 2010 17:07
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Petey posted:I've been listening to iTunesU lectures to pass the time on long drives for work. But the gunners make it almost unbearable. You know normal people would just listen to some music or something
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Jul 29, 2010 17:15
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Petey posted:I've been listening to iTunesU lectures to pass the time on long drives for work. But the gunners make it almost unbearable. Is this CLE? I thought you already graduated law school.
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Jul 29, 2010 17:48
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TyChan posted:Is this CLE? I thought you already graduated law school. don't troll him, he's fragile
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Jul 29, 2010 17:52
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Petey linked this is the Liz Warren thread in LF but I do believe this deserves a mention here (if it hasn't been posted already). http://duncankennedy.net/documents/Legal%20Education%20as%20Training%20for%20Hierarchy_Politics%20of%20Law.pdf 0L's, this is what learning to "think like a lawyer" will really mean for you. Petey posted:I've been listening to iTunesU lectures to pass the time on long drives for work. But the gunners make it almost unbearable. Do you have a link? This sounds impressive. lipstick thespian fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jul 29, 2010 |
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Jul 29, 2010 18:43
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Omerta posted:And the first signs of gunner tendencies appear. This is one dude's facebook picture
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Jul 29, 2010 19:02
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nm posted:The good news is that when he hands these out at interviews, he's going to lose some points.  like there are any jobs for people from Emory to begin with; do they even have a written language in whatever primitive state the "school" is from?
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Jul 29, 2010 19:08
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Lykourgos posted:
Georgia, Kentucky, Tennessee, the Carolinas, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana are the only states where "A beatin'" and "a lynchin'" are acceptable forms of equitable relief.
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Jul 29, 2010 19:16
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CaptainScraps posted:Georgia, Kentucky, Tennessee, the Carolinas, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana are the only states where "A beatin'" and "a lynchin'" are acceptable forms of equitable relief. breach of contract? that's a paddlin' 
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Jul 29, 2010 19:41
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lipstick thespian posted:Petey linked this is the Liz Warren thread in LF but I do believe this deserves a mention here (if it hasn't been posted already). That Duncan Kennedy essay is pretty off-base for certain law schools. Many of my professors at GULC were out-and-out radical leftists, and they were unapologetic about it in class.
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Jul 29, 2010 20:01
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entris posted:That Duncan Kennedy essay is pretty off-base for certain law schools. Many of my professors at GULC were out-and-out radical leftists, and they were unapologetic about it in class. I had a professor refer to our school as the 'anti-law and economics' school of thought. That professor was awesome. Anyway, I somehow have a bunch of interviews with government organizations coming up. Any tips on interviewing/hiding the stench of my desperation?
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Jul 29, 2010 20:19
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JudicialRestraints posted:Anyway, I somehow have a bunch of interviews with government organizations coming up. Any tips on interviewing/hiding the stench of my desperation? Just be friendly, have a resume/writing sample that shows that you're one of them, and don't act like some try-hard prat who pretends like he gives a toss about some random case that was in the news.
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Jul 29, 2010 20:21
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Lykourgos posted:Just be friendly, have a resume and writing sample that shows you know the poo poo, and don't act like some try-hard prat who pretends like he gives a toss about some random case that was in the news. What if my writing sample is from a case that was in the news 
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Jul 29, 2010 20:22
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JudicialRestraints posted:What if my writing sample is from a case that was in the news is it a real writing sample, or something you did for school that had no influence on the actual case? If the latter, then I hope the case had something to do with the job you're applying to, and is on the same side of the fence as the government.
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Jul 29, 2010 20:23
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Lykourgos posted:is it a real writing sample, or something you did for school that had no influence on the actual case? If the latter, then I hope the case had something to do with the job you're applying to, and is on the same side of the fence as the government. I wrote a portion of an appellate brief on the government side of this case: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/From-Court-To-Inmate-4-Bikini-Photos-94559024.html Yes, I got to look at porn in my cubicle.
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Jul 29, 2010 20:26
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Government interviews up here - especially in criminal law ministries - are intense, 45-minute oral examinations about all aspects of the criminal law, sentencing, policy, recent case law, etc. I have two coming up in a week, one of which is for an appellate Crown job, and I haven't been this terrified since hitting "post" on my first SA post.
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Jul 29, 2010 20:31
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:I haven't been this terrified since hitting "post" on my first SA post. I'm glad you have your sense of priorities straight. Would you estimate your future job prospects to be more or less, heh, "serious business" than your internet posting career?
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Jul 29, 2010 20:32
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JudicialRestraints posted:I wrote a portion of an appellate brief on the government side of this case: That's really good then, not only was it real but it was on the right side, too. When I interviewed for government jobs as a 2L, I had a writing sample from detaining SVPs after their sentence was served; it was extremely graphic and I guess private firms were detracted by it. But I got positive comments during a lot of my government interviews; it seems the two things they most appreciated was a dedication to government work, absence of private stuff from my resume, and the fact that the writing sample was real and relevant. Also, letters of recommendation from judges they know, or fellow gov employees they know, are very important. Privates just want you to go bleep bloop or something, I never figured them out and they always seemed weirded out by discussions about horse-riding being a superior art to saddle-making, or whatever topic comes up. losers, the lot of them
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Jul 29, 2010 20:35
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:Government interviews up here - especially in criminal law ministries - are intense, 45-minute oral examinations about all aspects of the criminal law, sentencing, policy, recent case law, etc. I have two coming up in a week, one of which is for an appellate Crown job, and I haven't been this terrified since hitting "post" on my first SA post. Seriously? I've done about 6 prosecution interviews, and for the most part they've ranged from, "yeh real good to read your writing sample; you do what we want to see around here" and "Yes, judge x is a laugh; up for a pint later?" I had a total of one interview that involved the sort of interview questions you see around here or in prep classes, "what does it take to be a good prosecutor?", and after that it just went back to the more pleasant "yeh lol how about that case, drat why'd you think the jury went that way?" So really all gov interviews have been a pleasure for me, very enjoyable, good chance to meet the people you're working with, would recommend++. Private interviews can be funny when you know that you have made the dickhead on the other side of the table suffer. "So, I read your writing sample, uhhh so molestation huh"
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Jul 29, 2010 20:40
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Omerta posted:And the first signs of gunner tendencies appear. This is one dude's facebook picture Don't you need to have a business to have a business card?
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Jul 29, 2010 20:40
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Ainsley McTree posted:Don't you need to have a business to have a business card? Your law school didn't try to sell business cards to you? U.Va. Law's bookstore was all over that when we were shopping for our textbooks.
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Jul 29, 2010 20:46
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Lykourgos posted:Seriously? I've done about 6 prosecution interviews, and for the most part they've ranged from, "yeh real good to read your writing sample; you do what we want to see around here" and "Yes, judge x is a laugh; up for a pint later?" I had a total of one interview that involved the sort of interview questions you see around here or in prep classes, "what does it take to be a good prosecutor?", and after that it just went back to the more pleasant "yeh lol how about that case, drat why'd you think the jury went that way?" Yeah, seriously, we need to have the Crown Policy Manual memorized (dealing with how to treat witnesses and the media, policies regarding sentencing of minors and natives, prosecuting drug crimes, etc), have a grasp of recent case law at the Supreme and Appeal levels, and for the articling interviews be ready to answer what x section of the Criminal Code is. Some of it is boring crap like "how do you work in teams." All of your answers are graded numerically, and they take the candidates with the best scores to a higher-level hiring committee to discuss more general poo poo like "fit". ~*bureaucracy*~
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Jul 29, 2010 20:47
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TyChan posted:Your law school didn't try to sell business cards to you? U.Va. Law's bookstore was all over that when we were shopping for our textbooks. Maybe. I do remember a discussion about business cards but I can't remember if it started with the school offering them or with a student asking for them. Either way it felt like a stupid idea and I was probably drunk at the time so I ignored it.
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Jul 29, 2010 20:48
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:Yeah, seriously, we need to have the Crown Policy Manual memorized (dealing with how to treat witnesses and the media, policies regarding sentencing of minors and natives, prosecuting drug crimes, etc), have a grasp of recent case law at the Supreme and Appeal levels, and for the articling interviews be ready to answer what x section of the Criminal Code is. Some of it is boring crap like "how do you work in teams." All of your answers are graded numerically, and they take the candidates with the best scores to a higher-level hiring committee to discuss more general poo poo like "fit". heh, I did a short pupilage with the inner temple, and some CPS guy came and gave me a crown prosecution manual. I brought it back with me and have it at my desk so that I may properly judge how to handle colonials. Americans really love the idea of being subject to the crown, kind of like they miss their motherland and rightful monarch.
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Jul 29, 2010 20:57
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TyChan posted:By the way, HK, didn't you have an interview recently? How'd it go? I guess not well for the St. Louis job since I never heard anything back. I'm not terribly surprised. Interviewed at a firm in Philly too but they're still doing interviews. Those interviews did make me realize how much I just don't really like practicing law though. It's easy to forget that after a year and a half but just being back in the law office, hearing people talk about law... I'm so not into it at all.
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Jul 29, 2010 21:16
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