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HooKars posted:hearing people talk about law... I'm so not into it at all. You can come help me open my bait shop in rural New England if you want
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Jul 29, 2010 21:32
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Lykourgos posted:Seriously? I've done about 6 prosecution interviews, and for the most part they've ranged from, "yeh real good to read your writing sample; you do what we want to see around here" and "Yes, judge x is a laugh; up for a pint later?" I had a total of one interview that involved the sort of interview questions you see around here or in prep classes, "what does it take to be a good prosecutor?", and after that it just went back to the more pleasant "yeh lol how about that case, drat why'd you think the jury went that way?" At least in New York City, it's standard practice for prosecutor's offices to ask ethical hypotheticals as interview questions. Here's one that comes up all the time. "You are prosecuting a man for stealing an old lady's purse. There are no witnesses other than the victim, but the lady got a great view of the defendant and has rock-solid testimony. Defense counsel has indicated to you that the defendant is willing to plead out. The day before the defendant is scheduled to give his plea, the lady has a heart attack and dies. Defense counsel doesn't know about this. Do you disclose the death of the lady to defense counsel, thereby threatening your case and his plea, or do you not make the disclosure and take the plea?"
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Jul 29, 2010 21:38
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Draile posted:At least in New York City, it's standard practice for prosecutor's offices to ask ethical hypotheticals as interview questions. Here's one that comes up all the time. "You are prosecuting a man for stealing an old lady's purse. There are no witnesses other than the victim, but the lady got a great view of the defendant and has rock-solid testimony. Defense counsel has indicated to you that the defendant is willing to plead out. The day before the defendant is scheduled to give his plea, the lady has a heart attack and dies. Defense counsel doesn't know about this. Do you disclose the death of the lady to defense counsel, thereby threatening your case and his plea, or do you not make the disclosure and take the plea?" Out of curiosity what is the answer?
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Jul 29, 2010 21:39
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holybartender posted:Out of curiosity what is the answer? The opposite of the one that usually happens IRL is my guess.
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Jul 29, 2010 21:42
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holybartender posted:Out of curiosity what is the answer?
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Jul 29, 2010 21:47
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Defleshed posted:You can come help me open my bait shop in rural New England if you want Sure!
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Jul 29, 2010 21:48
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Draile posted:"You are prosecuting a man for stealing an old lady's purse. There are no witnesses other than the victim, but the lady got a great view of the defendant and has rock-solid testimony. Defense counsel has indicated to you that the defendant is willing to plead out. The day before the defendant is scheduled to give his plea, the lady has a heart attack and dies. Defense counsel doesn't know about this. Do you disclose the death of the lady to defense counsel, thereby threatening your case and his plea, or do you not make the disclosure and take the plea?" holybartender posted:Out of curiosity what is the answer? Amend the charge to First Degree Felony Murder. e: lipstick thespian posted:How would you be able to know the answer without knowing wheter the guy was a minority or not? and more importantly, the race of the little old lady. joat mon fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Jul 29, 2010 |
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Jul 29, 2010 21:57
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gvibes posted:You have to disclose, right? Yes but you have to wink while giving this answer
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Jul 29, 2010 21:59
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holybartender posted:Out of curiosity what is the answer? How would you be able to know the answer without knowing wheter the guy was a minority or not? 
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Jul 29, 2010 22:00
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holybartender posted:Out of curiosity what is the answer? Depends on whether defense counsel's firm can afford you to hire you when you decide to sell out.
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Jul 30, 2010 00:15
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joat mon posted:Amend the charge to First Degree Felony Murder.
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Jul 30, 2010 00:41
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TyChan posted:Anyone actually thinking that firms would be reasonable about taking the economy into consideration when looking at a job applicant needs to get a reality check. Legal recruiters are too overburdened or underqualified to make individualized judgments about whether someone is actually up to snuff, so they go back to the traditional markers about what makes a successful candidate. It sucks, but that's how it works.  When I told lawyers at my firm how many of my classmates either 1.) don't have jobs 2.) have awful RA jobs, or C.) are working for the East Rapesville, FL Public Defender's Office because they couldn't get anything better, people were either shocked or disbelieving.
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Jul 30, 2010 00:42
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holybartender posted:Out of curiosity what is the answer? The diplomatic answer, and probably the option that most of us would prefer, is to make the disclosure. Although in real life I think it's more likely that people would take the plea—ADAs have their conviction rates monitored by their supervisors so they have incentives to convict whenever possible. Although it's just a hypothetical. Like in law school, how well you support your answer is more important than the answer itself. Or you can ignore all that and just do this: joat mon posted:Amend the charge to First Degree Felony Murder.
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Jul 30, 2010 00:50
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Strictly speaking, I don't know that it would be covered as Brady/Giglio exculpatory material. The fact that she died is not exculpatory as such. I think a valid inquiry is "Has defense counsel already had a chance to cross-examine her? If so, I'd like to get her prior testimony admitted around the hearsay exception because the declarant is unavailable." That said, I'd disclose. I believe, whenever possible, that you don't need to be a dick to opposing counsel. There are worse things in life than having a reputation as a straight shooter.
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Jul 30, 2010 01:09
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Alaemon posted:Strictly speaking, I don't know that it would be covered as Brady/Giglio exculpatory material. The fact that she died is not exculpatory as such. I think it depends on the situation: If they are just settling, I don't think you need to disclose. If you are asked a question like "Is your witness ready?" you probably have to. But I think the felony murder answer is the best.
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Jul 30, 2010 01:27
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Alaemon posted:Strictly speaking, I don't know that it would be covered as Brady/Giglio exculpatory material. The fact that she died is not exculpatory as such. I actually had a long conversation with an ADA on this very topic. Here's a possibility that came up where Brady might be involved: I agree that losing inculpatory evidence is not equivalent to possessing exculpatory evidence, and therefore is not explicitly covered by Brady. However, if the prosecutor somehow loses all of her inculpatory evidence—as in the hypothetical—the prosecutor then lacks any evidence that points toward the defendant's guilt. In that very limited case, do you think the lack of any inculpatory evidence at all effectively exculpates the defendant, and therefore the lack of evidence should be disclosed under a broad interpretation of Brady?
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Jul 30, 2010 01:27
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drop charges because no way to sustain burden. prosecutors are supposed to seek justice, not just try to imprison every accused person
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Jul 30, 2010 01:46
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Secret Asian Man posted:drop charges because no way to sustain burden. prosecutors are supposed to seek justice, not just try to imprison every accused person "We'll let you know as soon as we make a decision"
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Jul 30, 2010 01:48
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Felt really good about two or three of the essays and thankfully didn't get any that flat-out stumped me, but the MBE was a beast. Still optimistic and can't remember a pretty good chunk of last night. 
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Jul 30, 2010 02:41
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Man, today we got loving nailed with 75% of a property essay about Lis Pendens. I vaguely remembered that I head about it once, but had no clue what it was about. Exactly zero people knew a drat thing about it, and it was the subject of most of our essay. Jesus Christ. BarBri didn't even mention it, neither in the state portion nor the national portion. Luckily they gave enough context where I was able to fairly accurately guess the rule to some degree, but a ton of people just randomly guessed poo poo and totally got it wrong. God I love guessing correctly when there's a 40% failure rate. And now to see to my liver. BigHead fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jul 30, 2010 |
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Jul 30, 2010 03:26
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BigHead posted:Man, today we got loving nailed with 75% of a property essay about Lis Pendens. I vaguely remembered that I head about it once, but had no clue what it was about. Exactly zero people knew a drat thing about it, and it was the subject of most of our essay. Jesus Christ. BarBri didn't even mention it, neither in the state portion nor the national portion. I loving love lis pendens. When attorneys try and practice real estate law who aren't real estate attorneys, they gently caress it up and it usually ends up with a tortious interference claim against their clients. Which money for me, especially in commercial real estate.  Good job man, it's an obscure loving portion of law.
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Jul 30, 2010 03:39
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Secret Asian Man posted:drop charges because no way to sustain burden. prosecutors are supposed to seek justice, not just try to imprison every accused person  You're credit to team.
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Jul 30, 2010 04:01
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Soothing Vapors posted:Another thing that's worth keeping in mind that might come as a shock: lots of working lawyers have absolutely no idea how bad the market is for applicants right now. They have a vague sense that times is tough, but have only the most rudimentary understanding of what that means. People at my firm frequently expressed at lunches that despite the economy being in the shitter, they were sure Michigan was still a free meal ticket!!!!! As part of the externship program I got to have lunch with a federal judge, the district attorney, and a bunch of TTT students. Both were quite explicit about how hosed we all were and how there was really no way we'd ever be considered for positions with them. Probably they were more in tune with reality given the volume of applicants they have go paper with rejections. (If they even bother to do that. Probably not, come to think of it. Stamps cost money.)
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Jul 30, 2010 05:53
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nm posted:If you are asked a question like "Is your witness ready?" you probably have to. You can't stop a DA from flat-out lying, but this way you can at least remove the temptation for him/her to take the ethical low road where there's a (barely) arguable question as to what is ethically/legally required.
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Jul 30, 2010 06:05
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Lawschool Update: One of the two cute girls in my year is dropping out. Woe.
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Jul 30, 2010 07:01
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JudicialRestraints posted:Lawschool Update: One of the two cute girls in my year is dropping out. Woe. Why?
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Jul 30, 2010 07:04
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lipstick thespian posted:Why? She hates law and hates dealing with clients. She's going to be a computer programmer instead. Honestly, good for her.
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Jul 30, 2010 07:12
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Just got into DC. What's that great burger place? Ray's Hell Burger or something?
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Jul 30, 2010 08:00
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Petey posted:Just got into DC. What's that great burger place? Ray's Hell Burger or something? I'm told that is, and Five Guys.
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Jul 30, 2010 08:08
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Petey, how long are you staying in DC?
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Jul 30, 2010 08:29
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Draile posted:I actually had a long conversation with an ADA on this very topic. Here's a possibility that came up where Brady might be involved: I think ultimately, the guiding principle of prosecution must remain Berger v United States, 295 U.S. 78: "It is as much his duty to refrain from improper methods calculated to produce a wrongful conviction as it is to use every legitimate means to bring about a just one." I think that informs my decision-making more than the scope of Brady. Something in me seems to think that there's a case saying that the absence of inculpatory evidence does not equate to the presence of exculpatory evidence. (That might just be me parroting Jack McCoy, however.)
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Jul 30, 2010 09:13
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Jumping in on this thread, looking for mockery or reassurance. Rising 2L at BU, was top 3 in my section, learned today the the two in front of me both transferred to Harvard. I decided not to transfer mainly due to wanting to keep law review and having a couple of professors who have told me they will go to bat with me for clerkships if I hopefully keep my grades up. Am I a total idiot for not joining the rest of the transfers?
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Jul 30, 2010 10:32
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this was me during the AM essays: this was me during the PM essays: 
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Jul 30, 2010 11:41
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Elotana posted:this was me during the AM essays: Family law is easy. I literally wrote "best interest of the child" about 30 times for the SAPCR question. Disliked the business associations questions though, so I would rate the morning about a neutral-face. PS did you take it in Austin? Getting yelled at is p. cool, right?
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Jul 30, 2010 13:17
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TheBestDeception posted:Family law is easy. I literally wrote "best interest of the child" about 30 times for the SAPCR question. Disliked the business associations questions though, so I would rate the morning about a neutral-face.
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Jul 30, 2010 13:23
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I took the bar four years ago this summer, and mine was a pretty standard experience. But I wanted to share this story because it always makes me laugh: One of my classmates signed up for the Marine Corp after 1L year, so he spent his summers doing Marine Corp poo poo. He was all signed up for Marine JAG, just had to pass the bar and he was in. So on the first day of the exam, about an hour in, he freaks out, starts crying and runs out of the room, never to return. Yay! Let's put THAT guy in high pressure situations AND give him a gun with which to deal with them! (Actually that is exactly what he's doing: the Marines took pity on him, which I didn't know they did, and let him retake in February. He is now deployed in Iraq, presumably carrying a weapon at all times. Wouldn't want to be his bunkmate).
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Jul 30, 2010 14:42
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Petey posted:Just got into DC. What's that great burger place? Ray's Hell Burger or something? Go to Ben's Chili Bowl and get chili cheese fries and chili dogs. If you do not like this place you are probably too skinny to post here.
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Jul 30, 2010 15:10
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FastNDanger posted:Jumping in on this thread, looking for mockery or reassurance.
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Jul 30, 2010 15:30
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holybartender posted:I'm told that is, and Five Guys. Five Guys is tremendously overrated. Go to Ray's.
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Jul 30, 2010 15:37
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Adar posted:If you defer 2L for a year, maybe you can get in on the next transfer cycle? Well I don't know what BU is, but if he's literally number 1 in the class, shouldn't he be able to get something? I mean, he can literally say "I have the highest GPA at my TTT, and I am on a TTT law review" that must count for something
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Jul 30, 2010 15:49
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