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RivensBitch posted:I haven't heard those specifically but I always hated the M-Audio BX series, they had a very smiley face shaped EQ with no mids and way too much bass and treble. But who knows maybe they've improved with the new models. M-Audio seems to be hit or miss with their product. I was just curious if they would be better for monitoring than my Swan M10s. Which I love, but I should have made a more conscious purchase for monitoring.
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Jul 30, 2010 00:24
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Things I have: Korg M-50 Bitchin computer Reason 4.0 Things I need: A way to make the M-50 work with computer. Someone mentioned something about being able to hook it up with Cubase so that both Reason and the M-50 can work together, but I'm not up on the technical side of this. I'd like to be. A desk that will accommodate this fuckin huge keyboard and bitchin computer. My room is tiny. Can anyone advise me?
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Aug 1, 2010 00:19
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Thirst for Savings posted:M-Audio seems to be hit or miss with their product. I was just curious if they would be better for monitoring than my Swan M10s. Which I love, but I should have made a more conscious purchase for monitoring. Unless you have a big, treated, very uncluttered room then it doesn't really matter what monitors you use because they will all sound like poo poo and you will get that weird thing where you move your head around and the sound just 'disappears' periodically as you move in and out of null points. When I sold/traded off half my hardware I got to see a few people's home rigs and size them up. All of those guys had been relegated like me to box rooms by their wives, partners, families etc. The monitors were Behringer Truths, some weird silver Tannoys and Adam S2As. I have Dynaudio BM5as in mine. They all just sounded like different variations of poo poo. My Dyns sounded awesome in the listening room where I bought them but it was a big room with controlled acoustics. When I got them home they were mostly unusable for anything critical so I do critical mixing on headphones (Shure SE420s to be exact).
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Aug 1, 2010 01:13
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Yeah I use my external monitor situation only for ensuring I didn't over- / under-do the bass response; there have been a couple tracks where the bass sounded booming in headphones and was inaudible on bigger speakers capable of handing low end, and some tracks where I kept not being able to hear bass in the headphones, and it ended up overpowering everything on monitors
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Aug 1, 2010 01:53
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Really? On headphones? Wanderingkid I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt before but that is really terrible advice. Yes a treated room is ideal, but why do you think they call them nearfield monitors? Mix on headphones and you're going to overcompensate for the lack of ambience, it's just as bad as mixing in an echo chamber but for the exact opposite reason. Even if you can't treat your mix room, you can still get a decent reference point with an equilateral near field setup. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Would a treated room be better? Of course. But I mix in my living room all the time and I would never use my shure E5s for mixing unless I had to keep quiet, and even then I'd always come back and make adjustments with the monitors. Either way you should rely on a variety of monitor situations, and most importantly you should reference your mix to other mixes that you're familiar with. Listen to a professionally produced track that's similar to yours, and you'll have a great reference to gauge if you're overdoing the low end or if your vocal is too loud. RivensBitch fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Aug 1, 2010 |
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Aug 1, 2010 04:21
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I do use my Dyns though. Just not for critical listening. I also use a pair of Shure SE310s and Sennheiser CX300s, again not for critical listening. If I move my head a couple inches to the left or right, bass completely disappears when using any speakers because I don't have controlled acoustics in my room. Furthermore its rented accomodation so no permanent alterations can be made to the room or the wrath of my landlord will cometh. I am aware of the problems with headphones in the sense that stereo is handled very oddly since a hard panned sound is only heard in one ear and not the other. Whereas with speakers a hard panned sound is heard in both ears but the distance to one ear is shorter and thus the source is perceived as sounding from a different direction. I'm aware of lack of room ambience too. The point is that these deficiences are consistent and predictable in relation to reference tracks which I frequently use. As long as there is consistency I can sense a pattern and learn to work around it. Just like people learn to mix around that 1500hz megabump on NS10s because its always there. I can't work around bass that continually disappears and reappears when I shift from one rear end cheek to the other or I get up, go for a piss, sit back down a couple inches away from where I was before and my mix sounds different. Headphones for me is the lesser and cheaper of two evils. One thing I wouldn't do though is mix with headphones if you live/work in a noisy area. I'm lucky in that I live out in the country where its deadpan quiet and theres no traffic noise. This way I can monitor in headphones at fairly low volume and I can still get the little details. But as soon as you try to compete with traffic noise, noisy computers, noisy neighbors then you find yourself trying to overpower it all by blasting your ear canal phones at 100+dB SPL and thats how you go deaf. RivensBitch posted:Even if you can't treat your mix room, you can still get a decent reference point with an equilateral near field setup. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Would a treated room be better? Of course. But I mix in my living room all the time and I would never use my shure E5s for mixing unless I had to keep quiet, and even then I'd always come back and make adjustments with the monitors. Thats nice that you can mix in your living room but thats just not possible for me (and most people I would imagine). It would drive anyone that has to live with you up the walls. My living room is the biggest and nicest sounding room in my house though. I love the way my guitar sounds in my living room anyway. WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Aug 1, 2010 |
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Aug 1, 2010 09:32
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Are you mixing in a closet or something? I've never been in a mix situation with nearfields where moving your head a few inches makes the bass completely disappear. Even if your monitors only have a 45 degree conical dispersion (this is the extreme small end of the scale), if they're 2 feet away from you then you should have 18 inches of coverage left to right at the mix position. Even in a tiny space with terrible standing waves, a few inches has to be an exaggeration. And if you can't make permanent changes, just mount the acoustical treatment on a frame with cardstock and hang it on the wall like a picture. There's no law that you have to glue to foam to your wall, and if your situation is really this bad then you should absolutely invest in at least the bare minimum of $100 of Auralex foam and bass traps. RivensBitch fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Aug 1, 2010 |
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Aug 1, 2010 19:31
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Its a pretty small room. I'd guess 4 metres by 4 metres at the largest with less physical space due to the desk, closet and one corner is a diagonal.
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Aug 1, 2010 20:33
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I'll maintain that in a bad room headphones may be better for EQ/compression adjustments but they're bad and dare I say useless for volume and ambient adjustments. Also, I don't know of any headphones that are really good for figuring out what's going on sub 100 Hz in any accurate way.
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Aug 1, 2010 23:04
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I dont find bass or sub particularly difficult because its consistent and you can get a sense of proportion by comparing it to a professional track you like the sound of, in the same headphones. The thing thats most weird is visualising a 3 dimensional space because you get an exagerated sense of direction when a sound is coming at you off axis. At the extremes you only hear it in one ear which is quite an odd sensation but again its predictable and you can compare to professional tracks so it is possible to work around it. Its not ideal and if I could use monitors for critical listening in a properly treated room I would but thats just not an option for me as it is with many people. I don't see it as being fundamentally different to people who mix on terrible speakers. Once you become acustomed to where the speaker is hyped you can mix around it as long as the places where its hyped stay constant. After a while you instinctively know that your speakers are deficient between x hz and y khz and hyped between a hz and b hz so you begin to compensate accordingly. Do it often enough and it becomes second nature as long as the goalposts don't change so to speak. I don't know what else to say other than I find shifting sound from my monitors in my room very disconcerting and that I have experienced the same phenomenon to greater or lesser degrees in every small room home studio I've been in, regardless of what monitors were used.
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Aug 1, 2010 23:17
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So what about treating your room with foam on cardboard, hung like a picture? At least get some bass traps, they're $12 each
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Aug 1, 2010 23:34
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Yeah I'm thinking of DIYing some acoustic treatment but never got around to it. I've been making do with headphones for years so at this point I'm used to it.
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Aug 2, 2010 00:02
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I haven't read anything that would suggest that I can't use Ableton Live on a non Intel mac, but I'd like to double check. Google has given me conflicting answers on this. I'm on a 2 GHz PowerPC G5 Mac Version 10.5.8, with 2 GB's of ram. Can I use Live?
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Aug 2, 2010 07:01
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I know version 7 works on a power pc but cant be sure of 8
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Aug 2, 2010 14:55
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Cheap Shot posted:I haven't read anything that would suggest that I can't use Ableton Live on a non Intel mac, but I'd like to double check. Google has given me conflicting answers on this. I'm on a 2 GHz PowerPC G5 Mac Version 10.5.8, with 2 GB's of ram. Can I use Live? http://www.ableton.com/live-8 Mac: 1.25 GHz G4/G5 or faster (Intel Mac recommended), 1 GB RAM (2 GB recommended), Mac OS X 10.4.11 (10.5 or later recommended), DVD-ROM drive
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Aug 3, 2010 09:55
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Can anyone chime in with some pro tips for drum recording? I mic'ed up my drums and got it sounding ok, but it isn't great by any stretch. I have a 5-piece kit and basic cymbals (hat, crash, ride, splash). I also have a 4-piece budget mic kit and an SM57, but they are borrowed and I'm thinking about getting my own stuff. Is there a mic pack that is worth getting that will have everything I need, or what would the ideal setup be for under $500? As far as recording goes, right now I'm just setting the gain on each mic to just under clipping at maximum volume, then giving each channel moderate compression and some reverb and maybe a noise gate. I want my drums to sound like Dream Theater. Any free clues for a better way to go about this?
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Aug 5, 2010 01:08
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I'd say 90% of Mike Portnoys tone is in his playing, so good luck. Shortcuts that wont actually sound that good would include using sound replacer to trigger samples. Otherwise if you want to get the best possible tone I'd recomend getting at least one, preferably two good ($200-$300 each, a Shure SM27 comes to mind) condensers, and set it/them up as room mics rather than overheads, 8-15 feet in front of the drumkit if you can. Then use a dynamic on kick and snare. Add in toms if you have the mics/channels. Treat the room as much as you can, or find a large room and put a lot of oddly shaped (read not square/rectangular) items and furniture in it. Avoid spaces with a lot of noticeable reverb. And then most importantly, as I began this post with, practice and practice and practice. The consistency of each of your drum hits will greatly affect how good they sound. If you're hitting that snare in a completely different spot with every hit, you wont be able to use your EQ at all because every hit will be different. Mark a small X on your snare and practice hitting it over and over and over in the same spot. Are you hitting your kick heel toe, or are you lifting your knee and just using the ball of your foot? Many drummers use the ball but in doing so drive the beater into the head, which dampens the kick. If you want this that's fine, but you'd be surprised how your tone changes if you use heel/toe instead to strike the bass drum but let it resonate. All this technique matters and if you do it wrong you'll find yourself using your compressors as volume correction rather than tone creation. Playing it right and letting the mix engineer use their tools to make awesome sound even more awesome, rather than cleanup and turd polishing, is what makes someone like Mike Portnoy sound good. RivensBitch fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Aug 5, 2010 |
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Aug 5, 2010 07:22
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My roommate/bandmate and I have been playing around with drum recording and this is what we've found: The most important mic is the room mic. This will provide the overall picture, and the individual drum mics can be used to supplement the sound, beefing up or adjusting the tone and so on. One of the best drum recordings I've seen was just two condensers side by side, about 8 feet in front of the kit and 2 or 3 inches from the floor. Granted it was a nice wood paneled, treated room and a great kit, but it sounded amazing. Start with this and spend more time positioning it than any other mic - really experiment with distance, height, and angle until you get the best tone possible. To do this, record a little 30 second or so snippet in each position and even mark the placement/height if you need to. Then you can compare each recording as you go until you find one that works. After you've got that, work with the overhead mic(s) with the same process, if you have some. Mute the room mic and listen only to the overhead. We found that there was a huge amount of variation from even small adjustments, so we put just as much time into these as the room mics. You're mainly going for cymbals, but all your drums will come through. So try to get a nice, balanced sound and the right tone. Finally go through each individual drum playing with mic distance and angle. Listen to each mic individually as you go through. You will probably get less variation from these than the overheads so it should be a faster process. Once you've got a good sound from each drum, record all your mics together. When listening back, start with your faders all the way down. Bring up your room mic to a good level, then start bringing up your other faders until you have a nice rough mix. Try to listen for anything that sounds off, or that could be better. Go back and make adjustments to your mics until everything sounds good. If I get a chance, maybe I'll post a bit of our final recording. It sounded pretty drat good considering it was done in a bedroom with minimal treatment, on a budget kit.
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Aug 5, 2010 17:43
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How loud does the sound need to be for a mic to traditionally pick it up? In order to get a decent waveform on my SM57 mic I need to have my mic preamp (Tascam US122) on maximum and still the mic needs to be about 5 inches away from my amplifier or the sound is too quiet. For acoustic guitar, it needs to be practically touching the strings. Is my interface preamp extremely weak, my mic damaged, or am I just doing something wrong? Or is the mic just made to be extremely close to the instrument?
Nelsocracy fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Aug 6, 2010 |
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Aug 6, 2010 06:21
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Here's a dumb question - is there any reason why I wouldn't want to plug an amp head's 8ohm speaker-out straight into a mixer's line-in? I can't play too loud in my apartments, so I figure doing that with software cabinet modeling could give good results, buuuutttt... I don't know if it would make my mixer explode or something.
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Aug 7, 2010 05:46
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QPZIL posted:Here's a dumb question - is there any reason why I wouldn't want to plug an amp head's 8ohm speaker-out straight into a mixer's line-in? There are a million reasons why you wouldn't want to do that. It will destroy your mixer and might just destroy your amp.
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Aug 7, 2010 06:28
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Welp, that answers that. Thanks.
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Aug 7, 2010 06:29
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If your amp has an FX loop, you should be able to plug the FX send into your mixer and use the cabinet emulation software from there.
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Aug 7, 2010 06:48
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Gorilla Salsa posted:If your amp has an FX loop, you should be able to plug the FX send into your mixer and use the cabinet emulation software from there. Nope, but it has a headphone jack \/  \/
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Aug 7, 2010 07:08
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QPZIL posted:Nope, but it has a headphone jack \/ I've used the headphone jack on my home stereo amplifier to record vinyl LPs through a DAW, so that should be O.K.
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Aug 7, 2010 07:28
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headphone jacks are okay if you keep the volume down, but your bass cab is going to put out some serious power that your mixer's line input is not going to expect.
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Aug 7, 2010 09:43
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superdylan posted:Can anyone chime in with some pro tips for drum recording? I mic'ed up my drums and got it sounding ok, but it isn't great by any stretch. I have a 5-piece kit and basic cymbals (hat, crash, ride, splash). I also have a 4-piece budget mic kit and an SM57, but they are borrowed and I'm thinking about getting my own stuff. Is there a mic pack that is worth getting that will have everything I need, or what would the ideal setup be for under $500? Hit hard, especially backbeats on the snare. A big part of getting a good drum sound like Riven said is technique. I'm a drummer and an engineer, and it's really frustrating when I'm recording another drummer who has that wimpy, barely hitting the snare kind of technique because they'll naturally be inclined to think it's my fault the drums don't sound amazing since I'm the engineer. I always tell them in that situation to really crush the backbeats (you'll notice good drummers do this all the time, where basically every note that isn't ghosted is a loud, consistent rimshot. Mike Portnoy most likely does this). Room mics are awesome if you have a good room, but most people don't. I did have some success with putting room mics in adjacent rooms for a larger sound (the garage worked well), but these days I record drums in a completely deadened room with close mics and overheads, then when mixing I make a duplicate of each track, which are bussed and sent to a nice digital room reverb, 100% wet, zero dry. Now that bus is effectively a room mic and you can treat it as such in the mix. Fade in as much room sound for each drum as you want by just bringing up the duplicated fader for that drum (for example I'll often find the reverb sounds great on each snare note, but introduces some unwanted cardboard in each kick hit, so I just don't turn up the kick's reverb track as much). Kind of similar to the room mic controls on a drum VST, except with the benefit of a real performance. It's also great cause you can use a para EQ on each reverb track or the bus itself to further refine it, which is a lot more precise than the high\low cutoff parameters on the reverb UI. This really gives you a ton of flexibility with the ambiance of the recording. I've personally never found much use for a gate, even though it seems intuitive to use one. There's always bleed on every track in a drum recording, and it sounds unnatural to me when that bleed cuts in and out between transients. I like the bleed, it kind of glues everything together. Maybe use it for snare\hi-hat separation, but really if your snare technique and mic placement are good hi-hat bleed shouldn't be an issue. I can also say that investing in a good snare drum makes a huge difference. You hear the snare more clearly and more often than any other drum in a song the majority of the time, so it's important when recording to have a quality drum even if the rest of the kit is somewhat budget. I had always recorded whatever stock snare came with the kit I had at the time, I figured "hey 90% of the drum sound probably comes from the production cause computers and poo poo". It was like night and day when I got my pork pie and recorded it for the first time, I really couldn't believe it. Anyway, that works pretty well for me. For mics I use a pair of condensers for overheads (two Rode NT1s), an AKG D112 for the kick, and SM57's on snare\toms (this isn't under $500, but I don't see myself having to replace any of those mics anytime soon either). Relayer fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Aug 10, 2010 |
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Aug 10, 2010 04:24
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I will pop in here again to suggest that it isn't just the snare itself, but also the strands on the snare. I went from the stock Pearl strand on my free-floater (custom maple insert  ) to this snare and suddenly, my super-duper expensive snare which I'd custom-ordered actually sounded like I always thought it ought to sound, without tape, or tissue, or an O-ring. Snappy, crisp, sharp report; resonant, moist, yet without humming overtones. Now all I need is a non-shite kit to go with the drat thing, since it outshines my Yamaha Stage Custom, almost ostentatiously.
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Aug 10, 2010 07:03
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For sure, I was lucky in that the pork pie came with an awesome set of wires out of the box, although I did replace the snare head cause it got dented in shipping so I had a chance to reset the snares from scratch before I played it too.
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Aug 10, 2010 07:18
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Relayer posted:then when mixing I make a duplicate of each track, which are bussed and sent to a nice digital room reverb, 100% wet, zero dry. Now that bus is effectively a room mic and you can treat it as such in the mix. I hate to nitpick, but why are you duplicating these tracks? What software are you using where you can't just create an aux send? Also my main reason for suggesting mics in front of the kit instead of overhead is that I've come to appreciate the image of the kit that they create, it has very little to do with capturing the sound of the room. It's much more natural and in line with how anyone else in the room would hear the kit. Yes you can send your close mics to a reverb but then you have to play with panning and try to artificially recreate the image of the kit. Two stereo mics in front of the kit can product what I've come to believe is a better result, and you can easily send them to a reverb and adjust the reverb's output in much the same way as you've described above. quote:I've personally never found much use for a gate, even though it seems intuitive to use one. There's always bleed on every track in a drum recording, and it sounds unnatural to me when that bleed cuts in and out between transients. I like the bleed, it kind of glues everything together. Maybe use it for snare\hi-hat separation, but really if your snare technique and mic placement are good hi-hat bleed shouldn't be an issue. Most good gates will have an adjustment of how much gain is reduced when the gate is on, usually called "floor", "gain reduction" or something similar. Try adjusting this so that rather than completely shutting the channel off, you're really just lowering the bleed by 3 to 6dB. This has the affect of accentuating the drum hits without choking the bleed, and it sounds much more natural. Another thing you can do is put a sidechain compressor on your overheads with a very quick attack and release, and send the close drum mics to the sidechain input. Again you only want a few dB of reduction, the idea is to let the impact of the close mics cut through everything else. Subtlety is key, but it can help make your hits that much harder. This also works really well with ghost notes on the snare, especially if you create a "key" snare channel that is gated and compressed to all hell, but only used for sidechain inputs on compressors on other channels. Sometimes an engineer will even use a second mic or piezo trigger for this purpose, pointed right at the spot on the head where the drummer hits his ghost notes.
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Aug 10, 2010 17:07
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RivensBitch posted:I hate to nitpick, but why are you duplicating these tracks? What software are you using where you can't just create an aux send? Well the reason I duplicate each track is so I can use that new track's parametric EQ to sculpt only the reverb for that drum. Like if I don't want the low end of the kick to reverberate at all, I can shelf that out on the kick's duplicate track so the lower frequencies of the kick never make it to the reverb. If I were to just adjust the low cutoff on the reverb UI it would affect all the drums being sent to it. There's probably a better way to do this, it's really just a workflow thing that I'm comfortable with. I use Adobe Audition (which kinda sucks, but yeah it can do regular sends just fine). I actually don't think I've ever tried front mics in my home studio, I'll give it a shot, it makes sense. RivensBitch posted:Regarding gates.. I had tried playing with the gain reduction but still didn't really like the result. Admittedly though I abandon things quickly if I don't like the way something sounds, heh. I've never tried the sidechaining techniques you're describing for drum production, I definitely want to now though. Having easy direct control over only the ghost notes without just going crazy with envelopes is something I've been trying to do for a long time.
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Aug 10, 2010 19:17
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I find that drawing envelopes is not only time consuming, it often can sound lifeless compared to using sidechains. At least then you're controlling how the dynamics of different instruments react to each other, there's real interplay there rather than just your artistry with a mouse.
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Aug 11, 2010 01:06
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Has there been a good tutorial posted anywhere of how to sidechain in Cubase?
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Aug 11, 2010 02:11
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I don't know if cubase supports it out of the box, have you searched online? The compressor/gate plugin that you're using needs to support it, if it does then it's as simple as turning on the key input and choosing the source (usually a bus or channel).
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Aug 11, 2010 07:02
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There are zillions of tutorials posted on sidechaining in Cubase and it's built in in 4 and 5, dump the sad sack of poo poo that is SX3 if you're still suffering that.
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Aug 11, 2010 10:49
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Anyone familiar with Reaper who's had mixdown issues with it? I checked their support forums with no luck. I'm trying to simply render a midi file of a piano as a WAV so I can plug it into an Audition session, because Audition's MIDI support is abysmal (completely ignores sustain pedals for one thing). I'm using WinXP, a Presonus FP10 with the latest drivers and the NI Acoustik Piano VSTi. When I just set up the VSTi and play the track in Reaper, everything is fine. No dropped notes and all the sustain pedal information is intact. But when I try to render it as a WAV, regardless of bit depth, the resulting file has seemingly random dropped\muted notes and short moments of silence with loud clicks. This only happens when rendering MIDI. I'd really like to get to the bottom of this so I can just abandon AA and pick up Reaper as my primary DAW, everything about it seems better.
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Aug 13, 2010 01:01
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I've had Reaper drop out notes on some instruments before. One way to sort it out is to look for File > Save live output to disk (bounce). Make sure if you're rendering you don't try doing anything else, like switching to a browser, that can really mess up the rendering.
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Aug 13, 2010 03:32
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Thanks, that did the trick. I kinda feel dumb for not trying that before posting, heh. It would be nice if I didn't have to render it in real time just to avoid dropped midi notes, but I needed a quick fix so I can get this session done for my friend. Thanks!
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Aug 14, 2010 00:03
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Currently I use a 3 channel Gemini mixer, with 2 Technics 1200 MK2. I use time coded vinyl with Traktor Scratch Duo as well as regular vinyl to mix. The computer I use is a Sony VAIO. When I try to record I run a RCA cable from the "Record" output on the mixer to my the mic input on the laptop. I use the regular recording program that comes with Windows 7 to record. It always sounds like crap no matter how I adjust the levels on the mixer. I bought some recording program that came with an RCA to USB cable and it honestly sounds worse than the other hook up. I know that if I update to Traktor Pro I can easily record my mixes. I want to know if there is a free or cheaper way of doing this without upgrading to Traktor Pro.
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Aug 14, 2010 02:13
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bruvs be4 luvs
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Picked up one of these the other day: After a day of mixing I'm wondering how I ever got by without one. For AU$199, they're an absolute bargain - high quality touch-sensitive motorised fader, transport controls, integrates wonderfully with Cubase, etc. Granted, it's not as fully featured as the more expensive control surfaces, but at this price I don't care.
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Aug 15, 2010 12:47
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