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Dead Snoopy posted:I like to think that, even though it wasn't explicitly stated, Gilroy had a hand in fueling Vic's decision. Almost all of Vic's intel decisions are made post-Gilroy and Vic had to learn a bit from that scenario and get more creative. The Real Estate issue with Gilroy or the YOU'RE BEING SENT TO MEXICO WITH A SNIPER WATCHING THE WHOOOLLLLLEEEE TIME issue?
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Aug 14, 2010 23:38
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I was referencing the decision to kill Terry. Gilroy's contacts leaked it to Ben that Crawley was getting a deal and he was the only man hand picked by Aceveda. Ben obviouly felt that whatever dirt Vic was into could hurt him politically. Justice probably thought whatever info could be gathered on Vic would lead to taking down a higher up official, thinking Ben was getting a direct cut in Vic's street action [which he wasn't].
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Aug 14, 2010 23:42
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Dead Snoopy posted:I was referencing the decision to kill Terry. Gilroy's contacts leaked it to Ben that Crawley was getting a deal and he was the only man hand picked by Aceveda. Ben obviouly felt that whatever dirt Vic was into could hurt him politically. Justice probably thought whatever info could be gathered on Vic would lead to taking down a higher up official, thinking Ben was getting a direct cut in Vic's street action [which he wasn't]. I don't have S1 on DVD (it's been lost for a while, I probably should pick it up again) but was Gilroy a big character is Season 1? I really have forgot pretty much everything about S1 except for Pilot.
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Aug 15, 2010 00:23
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he's prominent but not overwhelming. He forewarns Vic of the shifting political waters of police politics and breaks ties with Vic but eventually comes into play again in the final episodes of the season.
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Aug 15, 2010 00:50
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Dead Snoopy posted:he's prominent but not overwhelming. He forewarns Vic of the shifting political waters of police politics and breaks ties with Vic but eventually comes into play again in the final episodes of the season. He's nowhere near Kavannaugh or Rawling so far as screen time goes, but he was a recurring character in 4 or 5 episodes.
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Aug 15, 2010 03:53
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He ranks slightly above Smitty
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Aug 15, 2010 04:45
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Dead Snoopy posted:He ranks slightly above Smitty I'd say he's more along the lines of Connie, though I liked how they kept bringing Smitty back.
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Aug 15, 2010 14:25
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I watched the season 5 finale with my flatmate when it originally aired. I don't think we said anything to each other for about an hour. Everytime we passed each other in the hallway, all either of us could say was Lem!  Taking a new flatmate through the series now, on the early episodes of season 4. I've never accidentally mentioned the big spoiler from S5 in conversation, so he needs to get moving quickly.
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Aug 15, 2010 15:52
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Both Lem and Aceveda are on Lie to Me tonight. Guess that's a benefit of it being produced by Shawn Ryan now. edit: and Dani! and Corrine and Billings and Ronnie... Why didn't I know about this ahead of time? User-Friendly fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Aug 17, 2010 |
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Aug 17, 2010 02:17
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Rewatching S5 right now. Forest was the best.
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Aug 17, 2010 02:39
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best line obviously is "He's gonna be found face down, in the shower, with a back full of shiv and an rear end full of cum."
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Aug 17, 2010 13:53
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edit:wrong thread - n/m ps - best line? "Your wife's pussy tastes like sweet butter"
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Aug 17, 2010 14:13
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braden posted:best line obviously is "He's gonna be found face down, in the shower, with a back full of shiv and an rear end full of cum." That was originally going to be a Glenn Close line but she couldn't bring herself to say it, so they gave it to Walton Goggins instead.
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Aug 17, 2010 15:10
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BrandonGK posted:That was originally going to be a Glenn Close line but she couldn't bring herself to say it, so they gave it to Walton Goggins instead.  I remember hearing about that in the commentary. Speaking of which.. The Shield has some great cast/crew commentary.
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Aug 17, 2010 15:16
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User-Friendly posted:Both Lem and Aceveda are on Lie to Me tonight. Guess that's a benefit of it being produced by Shawn Ryan now. Yeah, it should've been announced properly, since it was basically a Shield reunion in an alternate universe.
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Aug 17, 2010 23:11
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User-Friendly posted:Both Lem and Aceveda are on Lie to Me tonight. Guess that's a benefit of it being produced by Shawn Ryan now. What!? Haha, that is insane. I don't watch the show but I gotta check this out.
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Aug 18, 2010 02:43
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I posted a link to that on this thread one billion years ago: http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118012034.html?categoryid=14&cs=1&ref=bd_tv
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Aug 18, 2010 02:50
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I keep on forgetting how slimey Kavanaugh is every time I put in Season 5. God drat.
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Aug 18, 2010 03:23
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The final scene of season 3 is in my opinion the greatest scene in television history. It's so real and full of emotion and anger. My jaw remained dropped on the floor until the credits started rolling. The Shield is one of a few shows I've watched all the way through where I can safely say it was good all the way through. It's also one of the few shows where it physically depressed me at moments and made me think about it well after it was over. One of the greatest TV shows ever made without a doubt.
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Aug 18, 2010 18:39
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User-Friendly posted:Both Lem and Aceveda are on Lie to Me tonight. Guess that's a benefit of it being produced by Shawn Ryan now. Yeah, my boyfriend and I were watching that the other night and were like, "HOLY CRAP LOOK! It's Billings....and Dani and Aceveda! ....is...is that Lem? Corrine?? RONNIE WTF?!?" It made it a bit difficult to watch show actually. We were waiting for a big reveal at the end that Michael Chiklis did it.
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Aug 19, 2010 02:29
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Me and my roommate are finally starting on Season 1, which I finally got back into my hands. I can't believe some goon suggested just skipping Season 1 and jumping in at season 2. Terrible, terrible advice (which I guess is on par for goon advice). I forgot how much is thrown at you, just in those first couple episodes. Kern and Rondell (and Rondell's usurption), Dutch bagging the serial killer, Vic and his kid, Lem and Tigre, and of course just how fast the strike team escalates situations whenever they feel like it. In the course of the first three discs, they've KILLED A COP-UH! (Vic), pissed on suspects (Shane), shot the wrong suspect/planted a drop piece (Lem/Vic), hosed a chick in the interrogation room (Shane), and last but not least, committed an armed robbery of a loving police evidence van. They aren't even cops, Vic and co. are gangsters of the highest degree.
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Aug 24, 2010 19:24
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ruddiger posted:They aren't even cops, Vic and co. are gangsters of the highest degree. You mean like Al Capone with a badge? edit - Watching seasons 6 and 7 again, Rezien is such a bitch. I can't tell if it was on purpose or not since they try to give him some power, but he gets slapped around like it's nothing. TUS fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Aug 27, 2010 |
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Aug 27, 2010 00:29
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KilGrey posted:For people who have watched this show before, what do you think was the point of no return for Vic? Was there ever a time you just stopped rooting for him period? (outside of the end of the first ep, you could definitely call that a point of no return but after that what point would it be?) Definitely when he sold Ronnie out. It's the only place, really, because they always managed to shove a character in front of you that was more hateable than Vic. The serial killers, child rapists, Shane, Mara...Vic was a piece of poo poo, and until that point he was always second or third on the list. Then there was nobody left and he sold out a guy who had done everything for him
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Aug 27, 2010 00:41
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Captain Charisma posted:Definitely when he sold Ronnie out. It's the only place, really, because they always managed to shove a character in front of you that was more hateable than Vic. The serial killers, child rapists, Shane, Mara...Vic was a piece of poo poo, and until that point he was always second or third on the list. Then there was nobody left and he sold out a guy who had done everything for him But even then, he only did it because he thought Corrie was going to jail. I'm struggling to think of a situation where Vic acted for himself and only for himself. Here's a question: if Corrie wasn't involved and it was a choice between selling Ronnie out and getting away with it, or both of them going down, what would Vic do? Personally I'd say he'd sell Ronnie out straight away, but it's an interesting question, I reckon. I do believe he'd do everything he possibly could to keep Ronnie out of jail whilst still saving his own arse.
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Aug 27, 2010 03:10
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Junkenstein posted:But even then, he only did it because he thought Corrie was going to jail. I'm struggling to think of a situation where Vic acted for himself and only for himself. Vic was 100% willing to go to switch places with Lem if it meant Lem could go free and Shane/Ronnie wouldn't be tried. While Vic was never in it for himself, he always hung the deed above whose ever head he was working with. The question of the show would be what would you sacrifice for the greater good? The Strike team didn't want violence on the streets, so they controlled the drug trafficing to stop (slow?) the gang warfare.
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Aug 27, 2010 03:30
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just finished with the last episode oh god oh god oh god. :< Poor Gardocki. I quite liked the last 10 minutes of s7 episode 12, Murray's reaction when Vic started talking and then Wyms stepping in to hear it all
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Aug 29, 2010 17:59
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TUS posted:Vic was 100% willing to go to switch places with Lem if it meant Lem could go free and Shane/Ronnie wouldn't be tried. While Vic was never in it for himself, he always hung the deed above whose ever head he was working with. Finishing S7 - Vic walked away from signing the original ICE deal because Ronnie wasn't part of it. It was only when his family was in the crosshairs that he signed the deal minus Ronnie. He has like a tier of caringness for how he reacts. edit - I think Vic's confession scene is probably my favorite scene in television TUS fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Aug 29, 2010 |
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Aug 29, 2010 21:20
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TUS posted:edit - I think Vic's confession scene is probably my favorite scene in television The note they end on after the confession for that is so bitterly droll. Olivia: "Do you realize what you've done to me?" Vic: "I've done worse" All the threads run together, forgot about the spoiler thing. EvilTobaccoExec fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Aug 29, 2010 |
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Aug 29, 2010 23:28
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All 3 posts above me have poo poo that should be spoilered, unspoilered. Come on people don't ruin this show for someone!
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Aug 29, 2010 23:35
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redz posted:All 3 posts above me have poo poo that should be spoilered, unspoilered. Come on people don't ruin this show for someone! Even though I disagree (at least with mine), better be safe then sorry.
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Aug 29, 2010 23:39
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TUS posted:Finishing S7 - Vic walked away from signing the original ICE deal because Ronnie wasn't part of it. It was only when his family was in the crosshairs that he signed the deal minus Ronnie. He has like a tier of caringness for how he reacts. When he walked away from the first deal though, he still had time to spare and to try to call their bluff on how bad they wanted him. When it came right down to it, he was signing that deal and making his confession by the skin of his teeth and he knew it. I'm sure had he more time, he still would have tried to hold out for Ronnie but when push came to shove he signed without him. (ICE Stuff) Also, CCH Pounders reaction when she walked in and found out what was up was the best reaction ever.
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Aug 30, 2010 07:17
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I loved seeing Claudette react to Vic's deal. I really hated her character.
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Aug 30, 2010 07:42
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TUS posted:Finishing S7 - Vic walked away from signing the original ICE deal because Ronnie wasn't part of it. It was only when his family was in the crosshairs that he signed the deal minus Ronnie. He has like a tier of caringness for how he reacts. But he found out from Shane that Corrine was helping the cops and wasn't actually in danger. At that point he could have told Ronnie to run, and ran himself.. but didn't.
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Aug 30, 2010 13:47
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Pedro De Heredia posted:But he found out from Shane that Corrine was helping the cops and wasn't actually in danger. At that point he could have told Ronnie to run, and ran himself.. but didn't. I coulda sworn the timeline was: Vic turns down ICE deal/Corrine gets arrested/Vic signs deal; spills guts/Shane calls Vic from Payphone to say Corrine was on deal. So by the time Vic got the news, it was "too late." I don't think he could have told Ronnie to run because that would have violated his deal... which nulls his immunity.
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Aug 30, 2010 18:40
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KilGrey posted:
Yeah, that was great, but not as great as her scene with Vic near the end of the finale. Really, really powerful stuff.
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Aug 30, 2010 18:42
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TUS posted:I coulda sworn the timeline was: Vic turns down ICE deal/Corrine gets arrested/Vic signs deal; spills guts/Shane calls Vic from Payphone to say Corrine was on deal. So by the time Vic got the news, it was "too late." I don't think he could have told Ronnie to run because that would have violated his deal... which nulls his immunity. Right. My point is that by that point his deal is only helping him, not his family.
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Aug 31, 2010 00:30
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Edit: Well I finished it today and what a show. I didn't feel like it really hit its stride until season 3 but one of the things I like about the show is the consequences. Nothing is forgotten, nothing gets fobbed off, if theres a price to be paid then someone, somewhere, sometime will invariably pay for it. So many of the cases Mackey and co build are steeped in witness intimidation, extra judicial killings, police brutality and manufactured evidence so coming from The Wire it was alarming how little 'writing' was going on to justify the use of excessive or deadly force. But eventually it all comes back around though not always in the way you think it will or should. And then theres the guilt. This show does guilt like I've never seen and it gets so bad that my stomach is twisting in knots and I'm just a spectator. But the crowing achievement is the human face of the killer. I found myself sympathizing with Mackey and concerned for his wellbeing all the way up to season 7 despite all of his heinous crimes. Partly it was because of the human side, the workplace bravado, the dysfunctional family, the lifelong buddies in the strike team and it was impossible to separate the actions from the reasons for doing them: loyalty and security for self, friends and family. Season 7 to me was the point at which he loses everything, including the audience and its only during the confession scene where he lays all his crimes out like a laundry list that the biblical scale of it hits you (and the feds too judging by their expressions). WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Oct 23, 2010 |
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Oct 14, 2010 13:25
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KilGrey posted:He's for sure a bad guy, however I think often times he has good intentions but doesn't know any other way of going about things. Other times I think he starts with one bad thing and it snow balls and he has to continue doing bad things to cover up the first making him even more evil. That evil is also contrasted by the fact he loves his children, is loyal (for the most part) to his friends and did have a genuine interest in police work at one time. However he tipped the balance early and went 100 miles or more down the 'bad' road before thinking of turning back and couldn't ever turn around. I guess I wouldn't call him truly 'evil' because I think he does feel a genuine sense of remorse for a lot of the things he did and someone who is 'evil' to me doesn't have the capacity to do that. I originally posted that when I was on season 3, I'm currently one episode from the finale and it's pretty funny to look back at what I said in the original post. "Is vic bad", "whose the guy with the mustache", and the Dutch love makes me laugh now. I appreciate your answer though, very intelligent way to look at it. I always liked Ronnie, but I see what you mean. He does kinda have a lifeless look in his eyes, and not much personality per say. Vics point of no return? I would perhaps say the money train. I kinda stopped liking him as a person when he became less focused on police work. Yeah he is violent, but most of the violence was always stopping gangbangers, murders, pyschos etc. Towards the end when he gets involved in the whole political thing regarding ICE and Acevedas campaignI stopped rooting. I still like Dutch, he doesn't have a mean personality, just smug. He has a really good moral compass IMO, so does Claudette, but some of Claudette's moves have made me angry. Claudette is cool though, I really liked her and felt a lot of compassion. Julian was good too, it sucked he always got drawn into such lovely situations. I wish there was more love for loving BILLINGS though! I love when he says "The level of effort in between nothing, and what's required to keep this job...lets just call that 'The Billings'". That plus his loving lawsuit made him awesome, non-wacky, comic relief. The part of this show that I really loved his how it had characters you liked, doing things that made you question your liking of them. As far as bad guys go, Anthony Andersons character was great. Through drug addiction and stuff I've seen some poo poo parts of Detroit, and The Shield nails criminals better than any other show on television. So many shows portray criminals as hip, smooth, rather intelligent gangsters (Think Stringer Bell from The Wire) when that's just hardly ever the case in reality.
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Nov 2, 2010 06:41
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Dutch is another 'what the hell' character. I can't think of a time you don't really want to root for him though. It's difficult because he's so likable and you want to root for him but then you also want to root for Vic to. It's so easy to go back and forth on this show.
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WanderingKid posted:Edit: I see where you're coming from, but what if instead of The Strike team there were just Dutch style cops? Would there overall be less violence? I like to think Vic is kind of a necessary evil that perhaps, in the long run, creates less violence. One negative thing about the show I noticed was how the strike team would be able to pull of incredible poo poo, yet sometimes would be stopped by tiny poo poo. EDIT: Forgot how much I loving hated the older white bitch that worked as captain in the barn for a season. The policies she instituted that allowed for property to be seized pissed me off so much. She was so loving smug whilst ruining lives of fairly innocent people, and not acknowledging the fact everyone else disagreed. The Valuum fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Nov 2, 2010 |
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Nov 2, 2010 06:53
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Oh theres no doubt the district is dysfunctional but I suppose you have to look at the root causes. Alot of it is to do with drugs and the gangs that fight to control distribution and territory so these are problems that are fundamentally rooted in policy. The cops can seize a brick here, raid a stash house there but it doesn't ever do more than stem the tide. The deals that Vic and co had with Rondell etc. to keep the peace for slacking off on drug busts offer one, not exactly legal solution to the violence but the skimming off the top showed that there isn't much difference between the law enforcers and law breakers except what neighborhood you happened to be born in. Like I said, I was almost in disbelief at how I was fistpumping for Vic and the frequently creative and hilarious ways he has for extracting information from a lawbreaking chump with something to lose. But that ended around season 7 when he sold out the only real family had left (Ronnie) to keep the family he was never around for and who wanted to be far away from him. I like that Vic isn't a one dimensional villain. When we see him doing heinous poo poo we always see the reasons why, the purpose and whilst we don't always agree with them we can see what motivates him to do the things he does. That also ended in season 7 when during the confession scene he just lays it all out like a laundry list. When I saw it like that there was just no excuse for it and no words you could really say.
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Nov 11, 2010 17:45
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