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I just moved into a rental house and two potential wiring issues have jumped out at me. The following is in the computer room. Should I rewire this so there is a ground plug? I haven't taken off the panel to see if there is a ground wire yet. Or can I just put in a 2-3 prong adapter, throw on a good surge protector, and call it a day?  The second SEEMS absolutely insane to me, but wanted to make sure I am right before I demand it be fixed. This is a 60 amp box outside, open to all the elements that is powering an AC. Is that wiring being in the elements like that insanity or is it just me?  Thank you!
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Aug 7, 2010 17:22
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UrbanFarmer posted:The second SEEMS absolutely insane to me, but wanted to make sure I am right before I demand it be fixed. This is a 60 amp box outside, open to all the elements that is powering an AC. Is that wiring being in the elements like that insanity or is it just me? As to the PC plug, 3-prong adapters are unsafe and illegal for this application (or any application, WHY THE gently caress ARE THEY STILL SOLD?? GRRRR), and a surge protector does not protect against electric shock. Appliances with 3-prong plugs require that ground for safety; if you don't have a ground, the first warning from an electrical fault would be a potentially fatal electric shock. The only way to legally and safely retrofit a 3-prong receptacle to that without adding a ground wire back to the panel is by installing a GFCI receptacle. This won't add a ground, but will protect people against fatal electric shocks, and allows you to legally (and safely) add 3-prong receptacles. However, since it's a rental, you are probably not allowed to DIY it and would have to have your landlord's blessing and hire a professional electrician. It's a trivial job and would be east for a sparky, but would still be rather costly. grover fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Aug 7, 2010 |
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Aug 7, 2010 18:16
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Aren't the 3 prong adapters legit IF the system is grounded through armored conduit and you attach that little tab on the adapter to the center screw? That sub panel wiring is scary. I would be on the phone to the property owner.
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Aug 7, 2010 19:32
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dwoloz posted:Aren't the 3 prong adapters legit IF the system is grounded through armored conduit and you attach that little tab on the adapter to the center screw?
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Aug 7, 2010 20:58
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Thanks guys, you're lifesavers. Maybe literally 
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Aug 7, 2010 22:48
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UrbanFarmer posted:Thanks guys, you're lifesavers. Maybe literally Cheapest of the cheap off froogle. Probably a real piece of crap, but you'll ruin it for any other use the moment you remove the ground prong: http://www.google.com/products/cata...0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p grover fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Aug 7, 2010 |
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Aug 7, 2010 23:02
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Speaking of grounds -- I'm putting a wireless weather station on my boy's playset (about 14' high at the peak) situated about 25' from a 2-story house. I'll be using a 1" galvanized pipe to mount the components. I'm thinking I'll do one of these three things (in order of what I see as riskiest to safest): a) Mount an 8' section of pipe to the side of the playset, rising 3' above the playset so I have room to mount the various components. b) Mount a 20' section of pipe 3' into the ground, projecting 3' above the playset. c) Mount an 8' section of pipe to the side of the playset, rising 3' above the playset, but with a large-gauge wire running down the side of the playset to a grounding rod. Obviously option "a" is the easiest, but what should I do for safety's sake?
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Aug 8, 2010 00:18
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meatpimp posted:Speaking of grounds -- Will you be running any cables from this to your house, or is it all self-contained? If so, there's some other stuff you're supposed to do with the grounds that I'd have to check up on.
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Aug 8, 2010 00:41
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grover posted:Galvanized pipe counts as a ground rod if driven deep enough, and is pretty cheap. I'd just pound a piece as deep as you can get it (ideally 8') which should suffice. Good deal, I'll just get some extra pipe and get to hammerin'. This is a wireless station, so the pipe itself is my only real concern. Thanks! Edit: Hit rock at 7' and pounding on a coupling bent the pipe a bit, but it's in and it's solid. meatpimp fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Aug 8, 2010 |
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Aug 8, 2010 11:09
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I probably shouldn't have tried this, but I did and now there's no undoing it. We have a pretty new garbage disposal, maybe a few months old. It doesn't work and so we suspected the switch may be bad. So I set off to try to replace it. The garbage disposal is 120V, 6.9A. I purchased a switch that is speced for 120V, 15A from Lowes. This is a single switch with 3 connections, not a 3 way switch. The switch is not labeled for what terminal is + or -, so I just wired the new one the same as the old one. That is, whatever wire was on the top terminal I put on the top terminal of the new switch. Below is a picture of the old switch.  Click here for the full 855x639 image. Now the big difference between this switch and the new one I bought is that the new one is one of those flat rocker switches, and the screws on the old one come out much further than the new ones do. The screws for the terminal connections that is. The old switch had of course a ground, and on the top terminal of the picture was connected one wire. However, with the picture above, there were two wires connected to the bottom terminal. I thought this was weird but didn't really pay much attention to it. By this point I had the new switch mostly in but still had to wire that bottom connection. The thing is, the screw doesn't come out enough to fit both wires in there. So I tried just one and taped up the other live wire with electrical tape to insulate it. I gave it a shot and nothing happened, the garbage disposal wouldn't come on. So I'm back to square one where either the switch or the disposal could be broken. Now my question is, why were there two wires on that bottom connection? And is it safe to put some electrical tape on that live wire and push it back in the box? How do I fix this? Should I have even tried to do this? What have I done.. Here are some pictures of how the new switch is currently wired.  Click here for the full 855x639 image.  Click here for the full 855x639 image. I wasn't sure the gauge of the extra wire is so I took a picture with a penny beside it before I taped it back up.  Click here for the full 855x639 image.
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Aug 10, 2010 00:47
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para posted:Now my question is, why were there two wires on that bottom connection? And is it safe to put some electrical tape on that live wire and push it back in the box? How do I fix this? Should I have even tried to do this? What have I done. What you need to do is get a 6" or so piece of #12 wire and a wirenut. Use the wirenut to join both wires from the bottom screw, plus this new piece of wire. Then, put this new pigtail under the switch.
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Aug 10, 2010 00:53
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grover posted:The one you left disconnected is probably the "live" wire bringing in power from your electrical box, and the other screw to something else that's always on, like your dishwasher or range hood. It should never have been double-lugged under the screw terminal on the switch. That makes a lot of sense, thanks. Will it be safe to leave it like this for the next 24 hours or so until I can get back to Lowes, or should I disconnect the switch entirely and tape off all the wires? edit: I just noticed the outlet next to the switch no longer works. The outlet is not controlled by the switch, so that must have been where that wire was going. Seems strange, oh well. Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. para fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Aug 10, 2010 |
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Aug 10, 2010 01:17
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para posted:That makes a lot of sense, thanks. Will it be safe to leave it like this for the next 24 hours or so until I can get back to Lowes, or should I disconnect the switch entirely and tape off all the wires? If it hasn't blown up yet, it won't, probably ever. Electricity isn't some demon beast out for blood. If the breaker is on and you're not getting shocked, then that's probably how things will stay for quite a long time. Like, until the electrical tape melts.
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Aug 10, 2010 04:32
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grover posted:The only way to legally and safely retrofit a 3-prong receptacle to that without adding a ground wire back to the panel is by installing a GFCI receptacle. This won't add a ground, but will protect people against fatal electric shocks, and allows you to legally (and safely) add 3-prong receptacles. However, since it's a rental, you are probably not allowed to DIY it and would have to have your landlord's blessing and hire a professional electrician. It's a trivial job and would be east for a sparky, but would still be rather costly. Just adding that every 3 prong receptacle doesn't need to be GFCI, just the first outlet in the electrical sequence. I purchased a house last year that was all 2 prong and I rewired all the outlets to 3 prong with the 1st receptacle on each chain being GFCI. If you have the blessing to do the whole thing, which really the landlord should be doing anyway, get some GFCI's for the first in sequence then get 3 prong outlet/wall plate contractors packs. edit: handy dandy 2 to 3 prong conversion chart for older homes using GFCI's in sequence.  Click here for the full 800x600 image. keykey fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Aug 10, 2010 |
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Aug 10, 2010 16:31
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I'm back with a new question regarding this 1970's house I'm renting. An outlet in the kitchen was very sketchy. Sometimes it worked, other times it didn't, so I decided to replace the outlet. We tried plugging stuff into the outlet, but this was one of those times it wouldn't work. My girl had a dehydrator running on the outlet next to it so when I hit the circuit breaker that turned it off (the breakers are of course not labeled) and the dehydrator went off, I called it good. Off came the outlet and holy poo poo is it ugly. Maybe it's 70's code but there is paper covering inside the box and no dovetails. I wired the new outlet the exact same way as it was as you can see in the two pictures below:   All was well until I was down to reconnecting the last white wire (I was thinking neutral...) -- as soon as I connected it to the screw, sparks flew and the loving dehydrator started back up! Without the circuit breaker being turned back on! I'm aware that this isn't a safe box by today's code. However, is it safe enough that my house isn't going to catch on fire?
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Aug 18, 2010 22:24
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UrbanFarmer posted:All was well until I was down to reconnecting the last white wire (I was thinking neutral...) -- as soon as I connected it to the screw, sparks flew and the loving dehydrator started back up! Without the circuit breaker being turned back on! The outlet that's intermittent is probably a lamp outlet controlled by a switch somewhere, which might explain why it only works sometimes.
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Aug 19, 2010 01:26
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Thanks for the insight. If I leave it as it is now, should it be ok?
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Aug 19, 2010 03:16
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grover posted:The top and bottom of that outlet are on different circuits; you're supposed to break the tab off between then before hooking it up like that. One of the circuits was opened by the breaker, but the other was apparently live the whole time- you're very lucky you didn't get shocked. Both of these circuits SHOULD have been on the same breaker if they share a neutral. I don't think that's 2 different circuits, the wire counts don't match up considering which hots are bound together, unless someone wired those 2 circuits together in a different box. Actually, I think UrbanFarmer didn't shut off the right circuit at his box and the dehumidifier going off was an unfortunately timed auto-shutoff... Anyway, look on the outlet you replaced. Look to see if both of its screw terminals are disconnected from each other for both its hot and neutral sides and match those to your new outlet. The tabs just pry off with pliers. That switched hot goes somewhere else than the switch, probably to a ceiling light. It could go to another "1 always hot, 1 switched hot" duplex receptacle in the room though, you might want to get a lamp or something and check. Also, you got really ugly wallpaper.
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Aug 19, 2010 05:29
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Ive been trying to change out my dangerous Zinsco panel and PGE gave me the runaround for 2 weeks then told me I'd need to fork out $4000 to run new underground service. (!!) So, trying to get my electrician to just do the panel change hot and not even involve PGE in the whole matter
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Aug 21, 2010 06:23
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What exactly is a running board? In my unfinished basement, there's a large duct that fills a joist space so I have to run a bunch of wires below the duct. It's my understanding that I can put a running board there to make it code-compliant, I just don't know exactly what that is. Is it just a 1" thick board that I would attach below the vent and staple wires to the underside?
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Aug 21, 2010 15:37
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dyne posted:What exactly is a running board? In my unfinished basement, there's a large duct that fills a joist space so I have to run a bunch of wires below the duct. It's my understanding that I can put a running board there to make it code-compliant, I just don't know exactly what that is. Is it just a 1" thick board that I would attach below the vent and staple wires to the underside? Do you mean there's an actual duct pipe in between the joists, or it's a panned duct? You can run cables straight through across a panned duct for residential, but threading the cables through the holes you drill is tricky. I've done it by drilling holes on either side, then threading the holes with a short length of 6# solid copper wire first. It's rigid enough to stay straight for the length of the gap, but you can still bend around on it as needed. Once you thread the 2 holes, tape your other cable to the copper wire and pull it through the hole. And the other way to to it on the bottom of the panned duct would be with a metal raceway. Basically, it's a metal enclosure with holes on the ends that you run your cables in and close the cap on it to protect the wires inside. edit: Define "bunch of wires". If you're running both power and low voltage (phone/data/video/etc) cables, you'll probably want to separate the power from the low voltage into 2 raceways some distance from each other. Power can cause interference with low voltage especially if they're run in parallel right next to each other. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Aug 21, 2010 |
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Aug 21, 2010 20:14
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dyne posted:What exactly is a running board? In my unfinished basement, there's a large duct that fills a joist space so I have to run a bunch of wires below the duct. It's my understanding that I can put a running board there to make it code-compliant, I just don't know exactly what that is. Is it just a 1" thick board that I would attach below the vent and staple wires to the underside? 
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Aug 21, 2010 20:44
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grover posted:You mean like the yellow cable in this photo? You can't do it like is shown in the photo as it's subject to damage. If you do, you have to nail boards up beside it to protect the cable. Yeah, pretty much. Here's a picture that I should've included in the first place showing the duct (which actually spans 2 joist spaces). They're all power lines, I'm putting the low voltage wires elsewhere.  Click here for the full 800x597 image. Those are the previous owner's runs. He had no concern about code, earlier today in the attic I found a bunch of splices sitting in the insulation protected only by pairs of foil pie pans dyne fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Aug 22, 2010 |
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Aug 22, 2010 01:33
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Not a question, just a complaint that could really only be posted here. I had to do demo yesterday in a house where instead of running romex or conduit through the joists, they just ran 14ga wire in the gaps between sheets of drywall, then mudded over it. How in the name of christ can someone who is capable of wiring up a basement be that absolutely retarded? So, I guess there was a question after all.
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Aug 22, 2010 14:55
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Curious if there's a limit on how many receptacles can be attached to a single breaker? This is in Pennsylvania, and despite my efforts to read the code book, I couldn't follow it. We're talking 1.5 bedrooms + living room + dining room + fridge outlet + basement ceiling lights all on a single 15A breaker (labeled Living Room), despite there being switches labled for the Bedrooms and Kitchen. Actually, the breaker labeled Kitchen controls the non-fridge outlets in the Kitchen and the GFCI in the laundry in the basement, and has been tripping when we only have a microwave + toaster oven + basement dehumid running. This all seems really suspect to me, but I'm not sure if it's lovely and old, or lazy and unsafe.
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Aug 22, 2010 21:49
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motorcycledriveby posted:Curious if there's a limit on how many receptacles can be attached to a single breaker? This is in Pennsylvania, and despite my efforts to read the code book, I couldn't follow it. Slugworth: I don't know, but the stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me.
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Aug 23, 2010 01:51
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I got a spa over the weekend that will be located in the backyard. I need to run a line to the spa that is 50 amps and 220ish volts. The spa will be right next to the house and I am hoping to be able to run a line attached to the house from the breaker box to the spa. I know I need to have some kind of shut off switch near the spa. I don't know if this matters, but our AC unit has a 220v box near where the spa will be. I went to home depot and saw conduits that kind of looked like pvc pipe. Would this be the best option and what are some things I need to consider with running electrical outdoors? Is there a specific type of wire I need to use for outdoors? I have done some basic wiring inside but have never worked with 220 volts and never added a circuit to the breaker box.
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Aug 23, 2010 21:53
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That's probably because it was PVC. Electric uses a special type of PVC that's more resistant to sunlight and is colored gray. PVC would probably be the best choice for you since it's the easiest to work with. All you need is a hacksaw, a utility knife for the burrs, corners, fittings and the joining cement. There is a restriction about the number of bends between pull points with conduit; you're only allowed a total of 360 degrees of bends. There are 2 types of cable used outdoors: UF and THWN. UF is watertight cable approved for direct burial. If your cable run goes below ground, then you need this. THWN isn't a bundled cable, it's individual wires that are rated for use in conduit outdoors above ground. Since it isn't bundled, you'd need to pull 4 different cables: black, red, white and green. You'll most likely find cable marked as THHN at the store, but read marking on the insulation; almost all THHN cable is also rated THWN. As for adding circuits, first make sure that you have enough free slots in your box. 220 will require a 2 pole breaker, so you need 2 slots right next to each other. You may want to take one of your existing breakers to the store so you can match the type. Look for ones marked "spare" if you have any, you can pull those without affecting anything. fake edit: one of the most common noob mistakes for running cable is not giving yourself enough slack, especially at your breaker box. Leave yourself plenty at both ends, cable is cheap compared to time. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Aug 24, 2010 |
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Aug 24, 2010 00:46
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I'm reading through my code book here. You must have GFCI protection. You must have a disconnect prominently labeled no closer than 5 feet of, readily accessible to, and within sight of the spa. Your connection must contain a ground, which connects to the grounding of the "packaged spa assembly" which, assumedly, is all bonded together properly. Looks like the easiest way is to have a 2-pole GFCI breaker running to a 250V receptacle mounted to the side of the house within sight of the spa. There will be a sign saying "spa emergency shutoff - pull plug" next to the receptacle. You can then run a cord no longer than 15' to connect the spa to the house. babyeatingpsychopath fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Aug 24, 2010 |
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Aug 24, 2010 02:22
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Thanks for the responses. I have kind of a noob question about the breaker box. It is built into the house on the outside wall connected to the garage. In order to feed a new wire into it, will i need to cut into the drywall behind the breaker?
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Aug 24, 2010 19:55
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tuzalu posted:Thanks for the responses. I have kind of a noob question about the breaker box. It is built into the house on the outside wall connected to the garage. In order to feed a new wire into it, will i need to cut into the drywall behind the breaker? How do the other wires get there? Go the same way.
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Aug 25, 2010 04:04
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If any of you looked at the update in my lathe thread you would know I have a rotary phase converter. It's an Arco Roto-Phase, Model A. I have a couple questions on the specifications that I have to call Arco for, but that's not what this post is about. It requires that a standard 3 phase motor magnetic starter be used to start the converter and provide overload protection. I'm not an expert on such topics. What I'm particular concerned with is the following quote off their FAQ: Arco FAQ posted:
My concern is that will any "standard" 3 phase magnetic starter allow me to not connect T3 to the heater coil and holding coil? I see in that wiring diagram that T3 is connected to something in the starter. I realize I should probably be educating myself more on motor control and 3 phase power... feel free to throw some links at me.
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Aug 25, 2010 13:29
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dv6speed posted:Roto-Phase Wiring Diagram for Installation I really don't like the way it's connected in their drawing. If you do hook it up this way, it's very important you put a properly sized 3-phase breaker between the phase converter and your motor loads. grover fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Aug 25, 2010 |
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Aug 25, 2010 21:29
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dv6speed posted:My concern is that will any "standard" 3 phase magnetic starter allow me to not connect T3 to the heater coil and holding coil? I see in that wiring diagram that T3 is connected to something in the starter. Yes, any standard 3-phase magnetic starter can have a jumper instead of a heater. It looks like you're feeding two phases of your 3-phase service from one breaker and just manufacturing a third phase. If your converter overloads, its starter will trip, but it'll continue spinning, possibly giving very bizarre waveforms for that third phase. So you're going to have panel->3p disconnect->3p starter -> inverter. The 3p starter will have heaters on two poles, and a jumper on the third. I'm not sure how this will prevent 2-phasing your 3p motor when the overloads pop, as the diagram suggests feeding the 3p stuff from a different breaker.
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Aug 26, 2010 02:01
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Posting to make sure it's okay to feed a power tool that expects single phase 240 with both hot legs of a household 120/240 service before I fry myself. (Already checked to make sure the tool didn't have neutral tied to ground or some other stupid wiring decision.)
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Aug 26, 2010 07:51
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thelightguy posted:Posting to make sure it's okay to feed a power tool that expects single phase 240 with both hot legs of a household 120/240 service before I fry myself. You'll need to use a 2-pole yoked breaker to feed it if you don't have an existing tool circuit. Make sure the protection is properly sized, too- you don't want a 60A 240V breaker supplying a tool that's only designed for 15A fault-protection.Frying yourself should never be a hazard; you should be working with the breakers secured and never supplying power like this to tools that aren't properly insulated or grounded, and thus have nothing to shock yourself on. ...it's burning down your house you have to worry about! grover fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Aug 26, 2010 |
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Aug 26, 2010 10:36
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Cool, just wanted to make sure because the guy I bought it from was hell-bent on telling me that I needed a 3-phase 480v delta supply and a step down transformer, even though it clearly says AC 200-240V 1Φ 21A on the controller. 
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Aug 27, 2010 06:02
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Is there a limit to the number of overhead/canister lights that can be on a single circuit? I have seven canister lights running 35 watt CFLs, two overhead pendant style fixtures with normal incandescent bulbs, a front porch light with a large CFL, and a backyard patio with dual flood lamp bulbs all on a 15 amp circuit.
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Aug 28, 2010 05:32
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Secret_Squirrel posted:Is there a limit to the number of overhead/canister lights that can be on a single circuit? I have seven canister lights running 35 watt CFLs, two overhead pendant style fixtures with normal incandescent bulbs, a front porch light with a large CFL, and a backyard patio with dual flood lamp bulbs all on a 15 amp circuit. Check the lamp ballast for VA used. A 15A circuit has code:If over 1800, worry, because you may soon have a problem.
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Aug 28, 2010 14:40
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A 15A circuit is quite large. You could put over 100 15W CFLs on a circuit, and not blow it. This is a loaded question, though. If you're talking "practically", then if you're not nuissance-tripping the breaker, you have no issues. Legally, though, the circuit was supposed to have been designed for the maximum wattage bulbs the fixtures could handle. If those can lights have a sticker that says "120W max" then you have to consider each as having a 120W bulb even if you only have a 35W in there now. Same for the flood lights, etc. Given the #, you're probably safe either way, but it's worth checking. Also be careful with fluorescents as they approach the circuit ampacity limit. Incandescents have a power factor of 1.0 and A=V*Ω/W=A*V, but CFLs create harmonic current and current can exceed the rule-of-thumb calculation. So 35W/120V= 0.3A, but the harmonic current might push peak current levels to 0.4A. grover fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Aug 28, 2010 |
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Aug 28, 2010 15:09
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