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BigHead posted:To be fair, the bar itself is fine. It's the three months leading up to the bar that is unbearably soul crushing. This. It's the 3 months leading up to it, and the 4 months of not knowing your score after.
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Aug 22, 2010 22:00
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SWATJester posted:This. Not if you spend 4 months in an alcoholic stupor! 
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Aug 23, 2010 00:01
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Well, Holland, it could be that you're doing practice law school and your grade or lack thereof in that class means absolutely jack poo poo so it's not so much law school as it is an organized classroom-centric meet and greet for four hundred kids who are still somewhat interesting.
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Aug 23, 2010 00:22
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BigHead posted:To be fair, the bar itself is fine. It's the three months leading up to the bar that is unbearably soul crushing. Wait... three months? I thought the appropriate day-in day-out study time was ten days or so
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Aug 23, 2010 00:31
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Lykourgos posted:Wait... three months? I thought the appropriate day-in day-out study time was ten days or so July 5 tends to be the oh poo poo moment. Before then you probably aren't studying hard but are developing all sorts of anxiety about how you haven't started yet.
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Aug 23, 2010 00:40
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Lykourgos posted:Wait... three months? I thought the appropriate day-in day-out study time was ten days or so
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Aug 23, 2010 00:40
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Yeah, that makes more sense; I had the misfortune of hearing part of a barbri lecture, and the speaker sounded like he had asperger's. Thankfully I was spared that torture, and just had to deal with the crushing realisation that there was actually a lot of material to cover in ten days.
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Aug 23, 2010 01:08
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You only actually have to go to BarBri like 2 or 3 weeks. Unfortunately those are not the 2 or 3 weeks where you're not serious.
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Aug 23, 2010 01:46
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School starts again in the morning. University of Florida Levin College of Law...God help me, I do love it so.
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Aug 23, 2010 03:48
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Elotana posted:Science makes a difference to IP firms since you can do patent prosecution (and there's a tier system there with electrical engineers at the top and biologists at the bottom). Other than that there's no difference in either the admissions game or the job market. Ersatz posted:Some backgrounds can be advantageous if you're trying to break into a specific field of law, but so long as there's some writing involved no undergraduate major is really a disadvantage. Think of law school as starting over. Thanks guys. I'll have heaps of writing experience, so that's good. And my GPA's solid, and I'm starting LSAT prep this week. Anything else an undergrad could do to prepare for / buff up the applications for law school? By the way, just in case anyone asks, I have multiple work options prepared for when I graduate (knock on wood, I might be laughing/weeping at this in two years). Law school's just one option I'm interested in and would like to have available. I've never spent much time around lawyers, though. Seems like you guys do a lot of drinking, which is cool, but I'm more interested in the work experience. The OP had this nice narrative of some law goon's day at work. Where can I find more stuff like that? Any good reading that conveys what law work is like? Something more compact than reading the whole thread, hopefully?
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Aug 23, 2010 04:24
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Ersatz posted:BigHead is probably arriving at three months by including BarBri lectures and readings prior to crunch time. That part wasn't really soul crushing though, just mildly disturbing. Well I don't know about you fellas, but I studied at least 8 hours a day every day for 3 months (minus weekends). My bar has a mandatory 40% failure rate, so the bare possibility of doing anything less is unheard of.
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Aug 23, 2010 04:27
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BigHead posted:Well I don't know about you fellas, but I studied at least 8 hours a day every day for 3 months (minus weekends). My bar has a mandatory 40% failure rate, so the bare possibility of doing anything less is unheard of.
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Aug 23, 2010 04:31
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chinchilla posted:Thanks guys. I'll have heaps of writing experience, so that's good. And my GPA's solid, and I'm starting LSAT prep this week. Anything else an undergrad could do to prepare for / buff up the applications for law school? http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3301274&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1#post376435189 I'm working at a solo who does high-dollar torts and legal malpractice right now. I've been doing it a year and a half. I'm also a 3L. I get in about 10 because I figured out my boss won't have his poo poo together enough until about then. I look for any new papers on my desk. If they're there, I read them. If not, I go to the secretary and ask what came in. If the boss is in, I go see what's up and confirm an assignment/ask what's up. Then I get a problem like "Find a way we don't have to answer any of these questions" or "What the gently caress is this guy trying to say?" or "Write a final statement to the arbitrator." I go to any of several practice books (think hornbooks but more reference; for example, one of my books is entitled "Causes of Action" with the elements broken down, as well as remedies and all that poo poo.) I get a good basis, go to the cases cited and look for headnotes and gently caress around in Westlaw. I print out the cases that matter. For cases there is decisive law similar to my fact pattern, I learn the fact patterns. For areas of law that are gray as poo poo, I snag abject legal principles. Then I synthesize all this poo poo with what our story of the case is into a motion/response/reply/statement/memo. That goes to my boss, who stares at it for a while, makes some minor grammatical edits and it goes back and forth. If it's a big case, it goes to the client, which is when the client will call my boss and then call me and I may end up talking to him for an hour. Then apparently my boss flips a coin because half the time things are filed and half the time things aren't. If I'm in a slow period and my boss is taking his time editing/out for a depo/at a hearing I don't get the luxury of going to, I may get a jump on something i anticipate coming in. That way, when I get the assignment, it looks awesome when I can turnaround a 6 hour assignment in an hour and a half. I don't have hourly billing requirements. And occasionally, I go to a hearing, get on the phone with attorneys and tell them exactly why I reasoned what I reasoned, go to a mediation, go to an arbitration, or talk to clients. If it's slow, I duck out anywhere from 3:30-5:00. If it's busy, I've been there pretty late and on weekends. Most days I'm out after someone else leaves before me so I don't look bad. There. That's what I do as a plaintiff's clerk. But 90% of my time is spent researching and synthesizing, while 90% of my boss' time is spent on the phone. We have another clerk who does low dollar car accidents. I won't touch his work with a 50 foot pole; his job is totally medical bills and talking to adjusters. gently caress that. I'd rather stick bamboo under my fingernails. G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Aug 23, 2010 |
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Aug 23, 2010 04:38
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billion dollar bitch posted:Well, Holland, it could be that you're doing practice law school and your grade or lack thereof in that class means absolutely jack poo poo so it's not so much law school as it is an organized classroom-centric meet and greet for four hundred kids who are still somewhat interesting. Yeah, life is pretty sweet right now 
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Aug 23, 2010 05:04
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So jealous. Hope you have Bobbit (or Strauss).
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Aug 23, 2010 05:53
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I have Sovern  He's actually pretty good, though. Strauss is the one I've heard the worst things about.
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Aug 23, 2010 05:57
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Strauss just likes to gently caress with people. He's really p. avuncular in real life! (Seriously, I think he's my favorite professor, although I didn't have him for legal methods.) Sovern is like... chosing a twist cone because you don't know if you want the vanilla "LAW SCHOOL" of Strauss or the sultry chocolate "Have drinks with me on rooftop lounges!" of Bobbit. You go in for a mix of both flavors, fail to taste them, and ultimately leave dissatisfied.
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Aug 23, 2010 06:02
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10-8 posted:Don't do this. I did it and it's all fun and games while they're in med school but then residency starts and within a month they turn into a hollow shell of a person as the 90-hour weeks wreak havoc on their bodies and souls. Eventually you leave as the job consumes them. Well mine's a foreign-born Catholic, and I too am insanely religious, and we don't believe in divorce, so there. TOGETHER UNTIL THE BITTER END. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have interviews with Alston & Bird and McGuireWoods this week. I am not on Law Review, just a minor journal. What do I say to them to get them to give me large sums of money???
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Aug 23, 2010 14:16
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I like the stories about Alaska.SWATJester posted:A neurosurgeon I was family friends with raped dozens of patients. It happens more than you think. (edit: Thought your quote was in reply to Judicial's comment about doctor raping, but comparatively, my doctor (a DO, not a chiro) last time I saw him did a quick manipulation on my back and billed $90 for literally 5 seconds work, without even asking. Granted, it all goes to my insurance company so I don't have to pay anything different, but for literally 3 minutes of him coming in, asking if there were any changes in my condition, printing out a prescription refill, and going yoink on my back, he bills the insurance company for the same amount a 1st year associate would bill for an entire hour. Billing rates are far more compressed than you think they are. Paralegals start out at more than $100/hour. I think first year associates are around $300/hour. That is still less good than $18/second.
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Aug 23, 2010 14:59
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Boosted C5 posted:I have interviews with Alston & Bird and McGuireWoods this week. I am not on Law Review, just a minor journal. What do I say to them to get them to give me large sums of money??? If your username means what I think it does and if you're dealing with the offices of McGuireWoods in Richmond (or further down south), talking about your extensive knowledge of cars and forced induction will make you stand out. To be slightly more serious, though, the fact that you got an interview is promising. Not everyone at those firms is on law review. In fact, neither of those firms stand out as "law review" firms although it is good to be on a relatively prestigious journal. Legal recruiting interviews are often more about character fit than anything else. Do you know anyone at either of these firms you can pump for intel? Solomon Grundy posted:More like 80% - 20% in favor of the doctors. Med mal cases are so, so difficult to win. Insurers know it, and don't pay. The only time you get full settlement value is day of trial or mid-trial (or sometimes post trial, pre-verdict), after you have already spent all of the money for experts, etc. Despite Tychan's suggestion, at least in this area, there is no horde of starving lawyers ready to take meritless med mal cases. Nobody pays on those, and they are very expensive to bring. If you take a marginal med mal case, you'll just end up starvinger. Thanks for the links. I'm a bit skeptical about statistics getting thrown around by a professional organizational site designed to solicit potential clients and act as an advertising sounding board for malpractice firms, but it is interesting to see the counter-arguments here. I still think people are misinterpreting what I said, though. Basically, there is a lot of insurance gaming from doctors, but regardless of the apparently (and relatively) small number of actual medical malpractice suits that go to trial and result in adverse verdicts, the financial incentives created by medical malpractice verdicts and malpractice insurance costs result in overcompensation by doctors in ordering tests and otherwise doing things that are ultimately not necessary.
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Aug 23, 2010 16:00
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I think the disconnect is when people start saying "the potential for a malpractice suit makes doctors order too many tests because they don't want to get sued! the solution is, of course, caps on recovery and insanely high barriers against filing suit for malpractice." And this poo poo happens at the lowest level all the way up to people with spinal injuries. I went to the doctor last winter because I was flu-ish sick and wanted to rule out H1N1. I told her this up front---"I'm generally fine but I would like you do give me an H1N1 screen so I can go back to work." So she did some examination to rule out swine flu, then proceeded to give me a full on turn-and-caugh physical. Now I know the most likely reason was that she saw me and felt the burning urge to fondle my testicles, but a close second was the fact that she could bill the visit to the insurance company as both "423 - H1N1" screen and "120 - physical exam." I made up the billing codes but this happens 100% of the time that I see a doctor for anything. The most common area is in diagnostics--labs, x-rays, MRI, and you'll see it most frequently when the doctor ordering the diagnostic has the facilities on-site to perform the diagnostic. I wonder why???
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Aug 23, 2010 16:14
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Phil Moscowitz posted:I think the disconnect is when people start saying "the potential for a malpractice suit makes doctors order too many tests because they don't want to get sued! the solution is, of course, caps on recovery and insanely high barriers against filing suit for malpractice." We actually have a big ethics scandal going on in Palm Beach County involving a big PI/Comp lawyer who sends ALL of his clients to the same medical center for treatment (He'll send them to a different IME for trial). This medical center has everything that these patients could conceivably need: chiro or DO (not sure which), an ortho, I think they have a neuro as needed; as well as a full therapy and pain management center, MRI, and surgical facilities. The entire medical center is owned by the mother of the senior partner of that firm. it's a HUGE conflict. The firm sends them to this medical center who makes them go through all sorts of ridiculous tests and treatments they don't need, then bills the insurance company excessively for it. The senior partner, meanwhile, profits the whole way home.
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Aug 23, 2010 16:51
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Here's another one, in a case I recently had the plaintiff told me she tried to go to the doctor and she has insurance, but they asked her if it ws accident-related and when she said yes the doctors refused to take her insurance--she had to pay full price. A little deductive reasoning and I realized the doctors have figured out that when there is an accident, the full price of the medical treatment is used to calculate damages (not the negotiated rate the insurance company actually pays--collateral source). By refusing treatment even when there is insurance, the doctors are ensuring that they will get full payment of their ridiculous billing rate. What usually happens is a lawyer advances the payment and is reimbursed through settlement. So the plaintiff is jammed by the collateral source rule, which was intended to benefit them for doing the right thing and purchasing insurance.
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Aug 23, 2010 17:24
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I'm getting a lateral interview, woot.
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Aug 23, 2010 17:33
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gvibes posted:I'm getting a lateral interview, woot. Nice man good luck. On that note, my interview season starts today. What's the proper animal to sacrifice in this situation?
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Aug 23, 2010 17:59
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sigmachiev posted:What's the proper animal to sacrifice in this situation? Judging by the last few pages of this thread, a doctor.
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Aug 23, 2010 18:04
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SWATJester posted:We actually have a big ethics scandal going on in Palm Beach County involving a big PI/Comp lawyer who sends ALL of his clients to the same medical center for treatment (He'll send them to a different IME for trial). This medical center has everything that these patients could conceivably need: chiro or DO (not sure which), an ortho, I think they have a neuro as needed; as well as a full therapy and pain management center, MRI, and surgical facilities.
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Aug 23, 2010 18:43
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sigmachiev posted:On that note, my interview season starts today. What's the proper animal to sacrifice in this situation? A goat, obviously, right outside the interview room. Be sure to enter whilst slowly skipping to the sound of an Aulos.
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Aug 23, 2010 19:17
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nm posted:This isn't med mal, but in a lovely part of town here, there is a building who's only two tenants are a chiro and a PI attorney. Both with the same huge sign "been in an accident?." That is a different set of economics altogether. There is essentially no expert cost in those cases, because a savvy chiro won't charge much for his or her testimony. Chiros have to testify to get paid on letters of protection / chiro liens. The typical chiro whiplash case has a plaintiff that treated for a few months, racking up about $4,000 in chiro bills. The insurance company pays $6,000, the chiro takes two, the attorney two, and the client two. Put together a few dozen of those a year, and you can keep the lights on, but it is the very definition of shitlaw.
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Aug 23, 2010 22:05
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When mailing the "please consider me for I am coming to the area for a week" letters, should I just say "please see attached transcript/resume" or do you think it's kosher to mention that I have an upward trending, above median GPA? Because I really didn't do well first semester, but second was way, way better. Do firms care?
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Aug 24, 2010 00:05
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billion dollar bitch posted:When mailing the "please consider me for I am coming to the area for a week" letters, should I just say "please see attached transcript/resume" or do you think it's kosher to mention that I have an upward trending, above median GPA? Because I really didn't do well first semester, but second was way, way better. Do firms care? Maybe, but they've got lots of dudes to pick from who were solid all the way through, so I'd draw attention to the positive, rather than point out that your GPA was poo poo for a while (even if it got better eventually)
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Aug 24, 2010 00:11
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So what would you suggest saying?
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Aug 24, 2010 00:20
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billion dollar bitch posted:So what would you suggest saying?
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Aug 24, 2010 00:22
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So just kinda ignore the previous one and say, like... I received an X.XX GPA last semester and have completed a summer legal internship in...
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Aug 24, 2010 00:25
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Just got my first rejection letter. Livin' the dream.
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Aug 24, 2010 01:33
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Update on my non-law school life: I live in an RV in my best friend's spacious yard, right next to the Colorado river. I just plowed my savings into a taco stand startup. I am already more successful than 95% of law students.
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Aug 24, 2010 01:36
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Lawyer and law school megathread 13: living in a van down by the river
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Aug 24, 2010 02:57
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Save me jeebus posted:Update on my non-law school life: Are you seriously gonna do a taco stand? My brother and I are starting up our meadworks. A hundred bucks of honey is ready to be alcoholized and if it doesn't poison us then we'll start selling; there's exactly 0 competition in the mead market here and hopefully it would at least bring in enough money to keep me from starving while looking for work. Definitely seems like a brighter future than getting rejected from jobs I'd hate doing anyway.
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Aug 24, 2010 03:02
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Weeee, just got admitted to the MN bar without taking a test. Admission by motion is great.
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Aug 24, 2010 03:13
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This was outside one of my professor's door today. http://officespam.chattablogs.com/archives/2006/08/coloring-book-for-lawyers.html
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Aug 24, 2010 03:15
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